^Dan of course is a major investor in the Detroit LRT now going in along Woodward Ave, so having him invest in transit such as the CVSR Tower City connection wouldn't be unprecedented.  I wonder if he fully realizes that he could have 60 miles of car-free gamblers dropped off directly underneath his Horseshoe Casino ... And hey, now may be the best time to approach him about this; he's probably in a great mood now that he's got LeBron back in the fold..

^Dan of course is a major investor in the Detroit LRT now going in along Woodward Ave, so having him invest in transit such as the CVSR Tower City connection wouldn't be unprecedented.  I wonder if he fully realizes that he could have 60 miles of car-free gamblers dropped off directly underneath his Horseshoe Casino ... And hey, now may be the best time to approach him about this; he's probably in a great mood now that he's got LeBron back in the fold..

 

I don't know if he fully realizes it, but I did tell Dan Gilbert a few years ago. I did my part.

^Dan of course is a major investor in the Detroit LRT now going in along Woodward Ave, so having him invest in transit such as the CVSR Tower City connection wouldn't be unprecedented.  I wonder if he fully realizes that he could have 60 miles of car-free gamblers dropped off directly underneath his Horseshoe Casino ... And hey, now may be the best time to approach him about this; he's probably in a great mood now that he's got LeBron back in the fold..

 

I don't know if he fully realizes it, but I did tell Dan Gilbert a few years ago. I did my part.

 

Good for you!  You seem to be the only "public official" that actually consistently advocates transit around Cleveland.  It's up to the rest of us to "remind" these folks of these transit possibilities... like CVSR's extension.  As far as my part; I'll be on the contact trail to Rock Caesars in the a.m. 

I'm a huge fan of the CVSR and love using it & taking friends & family on it but I really don't see the benefit of an extension to Steelyard.  The users of the CVSR are nature lovers, recreation folks, visitors, tourists, etc looking to make a day out of it.  There's nothing really do or see in Steelyard from a recreation aspect.  The only places to eat are Applebees or some fast food.  Lots of big box retail.  I don't see the connection here (pun intended).  I guess it would give residents of Cleveland a place to jump on but technically they can already at Rockside, no?

Steelyard Commons isn't itself going to be the destination in its present state for folks coming from Summit county.  The benefit to me would be being able to get off the train there with my bike and ride up to Tremont and over to Ohio City for the day. Or for people that live in Ohio City or Tremont to have better access to the Cuyahoga Valley.

I think the stores would change over time and cater to people that are on the train or using the towpath.  For example, an REI might go nicely in there and that could make it a fun stop for people to look over and test gear.

I'm a huge fan of the CVSR and love using it & taking friends & family on it but I really don't see the benefit of an extension to Steelyard.  The users of the CVSR are nature lovers, recreation folks, visitors, tourists, etc looking to make a day out of it.  There's nothing really do or see in Steelyard from a recreation aspect.  The only places to eat are Applebees or some fast food.  Lots of big box retail.  I don't see the connection here (pun intended).  I guess it would give residents of Cleveland a place to jump on but technically they can already at Rockside, no?

 

Steelyard is the proposed address of a station which First Interstate offered to build for CVSR. It is not necessarily the origin/destination of most riders, as audidave said. In fact, most will be bound to/from downtown Cleveland.

 

However bike riders having the Steelyard station nearby will be more apt to visit the Cuyahoga Valley by not having to drive to Independence. Instead they can bike from their homes in Ohio City, Tremont and Old Brooklyn (including using the relatively new Treadway Trail). If you have to put your bike in/on your car (assuming you have one) then drive it down to Independence, you may be more tempted just to bike around your neighborhood or on the new trails and paths emerging in the city. Proximity to a point of access (in this case a train boarding site) counts for a lot.

 

In the opposite direction, someone living in Akron, Cuyahoga Falls, Peninsula, Brecksville, etc could ride to Steelyard and then either take a shuttle or ride their bike to the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo. Some may also ride their bike over the river to the new Velodrome in Slavic Village.

 

CVSR is a nonprofit education organization, so it's main purpose is to educate. That includes telling the valley's industrial history, of which the railroad and canal are a significant part of the story. As are the many industries that still exist north of Rockside station. Also, one of the biggest potential users of the Steelyard station will be Cleveland school students. In fact, students are one of CVSR's biggest sources of ridership. Steelyard offers a better location for school buses to park, wait or layover that a Tower City location. Canal Basin Park might be more accessible for school buses. Steelyard or Canal Basin might work for charter buses too -- but Steelyard is more highway accessible than any current CVSR station. And I'm sure the restaurants at Steelyard would love to have school and charter buses too.

 

Heck, even the Christmas Story House is a short bus ride or bike ride from the proposed Steelyard station site!

 

Even with that wide variety of ridership sources, Steelyard will be a relatively small source of traffic for CVSR compared to a station stop below Tower City Center or at Canal Basin Park. But it may ultimately be one of CVSR's top-5 most heavily used stations.

If this route is so lightly used, why is it such a hassle to CSX if CVSR rented it for the downtown service?

 

The north and south ends are lightly used, but the middle is served by a pair of busier rail lines (one owned by NS, the other by CSX) which come down the Big Creek Valley past the zoo and cross the valley line below the Harvard-Denison Bridge at an at-grade crossing.

 

The valley line tracks need to be fixed up. The Cuyahoga River lift bridge needs to be fixed up. Someone paid by the National Park needs to staff the lift bridge or equip it with remote-control technology.

 

And someone needs to make sure the liability insurance coverage for the National Park and/or CVSR is sufficient for this extension.

DiscoverOhio ‏@DiscoverOhio  6m

Would you rather ride a BIKE or TRAIN? Try both for just $3 on the @CVSRR (Here's how --> http://bit.ly/1jCtdbS ) pic.twitter.com/XWsv5VVtHD

From their newsletter......

 

What's Happening at CVSR

 

Spring is in the air at Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad! We invite you to climb aboard and experience CVNP in a new way this spring!

 

+ Bike Aboard kicks off this Saturday, April 4! Ride the Towpath Trail, flag down the train at any of our stations, and ride the train back to your origin for $3! Visit our website for more information. Bike rentals from Cleveland Bike Tours are available at Rockside Station.

 

+In addition to our regular National Park Scenic train, we have a variety of food and beverage programs this month. Please refer to the April Programs listing on the left for all of the details.

 

+Looking ahead, our May programming schedule is filling up with a Cinco de Mayo celebration on Saturday, May 2 and Mother’s Day Lunch Along the Cuyahoga on Sunday, May 10. Visit our website for the details.

 

+Please also be sure to read below for your special Member discount for our Day Out With Thomas event, which is taking place on May 16-17 and 22-24.

 

Apparently CVSR is being called on to play a role in moving people in/and out of downtown Cleveland during the GOP convention. They can get more than 1,000 people on each train and bring them to just below Quicken Loans Arena where they can use the Riverview Parking ramp to Canal, the stairwell up to Tower City parking, and  one of the Gateway walkway entrances from Tower City parking to get people into The Q. Remember that a new Marriott hotel is being built next to the CVSR station at Akron Northside. And there's hotels on Rockside that may use shuttles to get people to/from the trains.

 

And yes, this is causing civic leaders to wonder why can't CVSR travel into downtown Cleveland for more than just the GOP convention? Hopefully this idea will go somewhere this time -- especially now that CSX will no longer use its tracks north of I-490 to deliver coal to Cleveland Thermal on Canal Road!

Exciting KJP. I really hope it works. This would be huge.

Exciting KJP. I really hope it works. This would be huge.

 

Makes perfect sense.  Already have parking lots at the stops.  I'd love to see some projected travel times into downtown from Rockside/Canal, Brecksville/Riverview, Penninsula...

An editorial in the Beacon Journal from Sunday mentioned this idea among many others of rail going to Cleveland from the Northside station. Not much more was detailed. The main topic was urban renewal of Akron, in particular of the need for the innerbelt to be reinvented.  The impetus was a couple top speakers that have been in Akron the last couple weeks. I wonder if this idea sprang from these brainstorming sessions.

One word for local officials who opine that this idea is great and should be extended beyond the RNC:    Duh...

An editorial in the Beacon Journal from Sunday mentioned this idea among many others of rail going to Cleveland from the Northside station. Not much more was detailed. The main topic was urban renewal of Akron, in particular of the need for the innerbelt to be reinvented.  The impetus was a couple top speakers that have been in Akron the last couple weeks. I wonder if this idea sprang from these brainstorming sessions.

 

How about trainstorming?

 

Yeah I know it's stupid, but someone will use it.

Makes perfect sense.  Already have parking lots at the stops.  I'd love to see some projected travel times into downtown from Rockside/Canal, Brecksville/Riverview, Penninsula...

 

It will be very slow. Most commuter rail services with a top speed of 60-80 mph have an end-to-end average speed in the 30-40 mph range because of the many enroute stops (about every 3-10 miles). A CVSR extension will probably have only one en route station stop -- at the north end of Steelyard Commons where First Interstate has kept a site set aside for a possible CVSR station. This would also serve Tremont. But this is very slow track with many tight curves, active rail yards, a rail-rail crossing at Denison Road, and a lift bridge below I-490. The TOP speed on this line won't be more than 40 mph and many sections will probably be 20-25 mph. So we're probably talking an average speed in the vicinity of 20 mph for the 8-mile extension, or about 24 minutes from Rockside to Tower City. This travel time could be reduced but at a cost in the tens of millions of dollars -- in addition to the $20 million or so that's needed to make this rail line a safe, comfortable ride consistently at 40 mph.

 

I think the National Park Service would have some concerns with adding commuter rail to this line, which it owns south of SR21 in Independence to Howard Street in Akron. The reason is that the NPS is trying to reduce vehicular traffic in its parks throughout the USA. Adding commuter park-n-rides isn't going to reduce that traffic. But I also think that there is no place in Greater Cleveland where a commuter rail service could be added so cheaply and link the central business districts of Northeast Ohio's two largest cities. There are some places where park-n-rides can be added/expanded in non-NPS areas (Steelyard, Rockside, possibly Brecksville station which I think is actually in the Metroparks, Peninsula, Valley Business District, and Akron Northside). But the NPS, as owner of the rail line, is the landlord and has the final say on what operates over its tracks.

 

I think the key to this is having the NPS allow revenue generation from limited development of its properties at/near stations with design restrictions (very limited area to be developed, dense, mixed-use, no car ownership for residents, pedestrian/bike-oriented, LEED v4-certification for station-area development, etc) and from track-use fees. With these, the NPS may be able to afford to extend and sustain service to downtown Cleveland. With that extension, it will make it possible for visitors to reach and travel within the park without any vehicular access.

^I would have definitely preferred the old proposal of commuter rail to Akron over the NS line through the branch near/at Hudson, but IIRC some NIMBY folks in one city killed it... CVSR is not a great alternative to commuter rail, and wouldn't be ideal for that purpose (not only is it slow, it's almost entirely single track, right?), but it's the best we've got right now -- an actual working 50+ mile passenger railroad with local stations, equipment and maintenance/repair facilities.  Perhaps as with statewide HSR, this region needs to first crawl (literally) before it can walk...

 

... I guess I should say re-crawl and re-walk because we already had commuter rail until the late 1970s.

What KJP said.  And KJP is softballing it.  CVSR would have to dramatically reorder its priorities and basically forget being a scenic railroad altogether in order to make that commuter rail a reality, at least unless they could add a second track, which would be ridiculously expensive.  Remember, it's designed for trains to spend 1.5 hours getting from Independence to Akron.

 

More importantly, commuter rail should ideally be set up to go through populated areas, while CVSR could not have been better designed to avoid them.  For some reason, long lines of suburbs don't qualify as "scenic," and the national park does.  Go figure.  Using the CVSR track for commuting would be an almost certain failure and would be predictably, and rightly, seized upon by opponents of passenger rail.

What KJP said.  And KJP is softballing it.  CVSR would have to dramatically reorder its priorities and basically forget being a scenic railroad altogether in order to make that commuter rail a reality, at least unless they could add a second track, which would be ridiculously expensive.  Remember, it's designed for trains to spend 1.5 hours getting from Independence to Akron.

 

More importantly, commuter rail should ideally be set up to go through populated areas, while CVSR could not have been better designed to avoid them.  For some reason, long lines of suburbs don't qualify as "scenic," and the national park does.  Go figure.  Using the CVSR track for commuting would be an almost certain failure and would be predictably, and rightly, seized upon by opponents of passenger rail.

 

You make valid points, and I don't disagree.  But something is better than nothing and if the RNC is a catalyst toward getting some form of commuter rail started in this region -- a concept I bristle at -- so be it.  Unlike you, I take the glass half full approach: that if people get a taste of commuting to downtown by rail they may (probably will) like it; want more and want to improve on it.  Who's to say that, in this light, the original proposal for NS could get dusted off and executed at some point if residents in outer Cuyahoga and Summit Counties put pressure on their pols: it's all political?  Then some day a new and improved CVSR could revert back to being a full time tourist line through the valley but with direct connections to the downtown Cleveland hub.

 

Remember South Florida's Tri-Rail started as an experimental, single rail, rush hour only line in the early 1990s to alleviate traffic during extensive I-95 reconstruction.  Today it is a busy, all-day, 2-track commuter rail network that is about to be extended into downtown Miami with a new/separate line closer to the Atlantic coast through the downtowns of many South Florida cities north of Miami; up the coast for 70+ miles... You've got to start somewhere.

What KJP said.  And KJP is softballing it.  CVSR would have to dramatically reorder its priorities and basically forget being a scenic railroad altogether in order to make that commuter rail a reality, at least unless they could add a second track, which would be ridiculously expensive.  Remember, it's designed for trains to spend 1.5 hours getting from Independence to Akron.

 

More importantly, commuter rail should ideally be set up to go through populated areas, while CVSR could not have been better designed to avoid them.  For some reason, long lines of suburbs don't qualify as "scenic," and the national park does.  Go figure.  Using the CVSR track for commuting would be an almost certain failure and would be predictably, and rightly, seized upon by opponents of passenger rail.

 

You make valid points, and I don't disagree.  But something is better than nothing ...

 

This is the central question.  And it makes me nervous.

Turning CVSR into commuter rail sounds like a colossal waste of money to me, but seems like a cheap extension of the recreational service into downtown Cleveland would be a great amenity.

ultimately the uses are conflicting.  In order for the CVSR to be any success as a commuter rail, it would require

 

1.  suburban commuters driving down into the valley stations to park & back out after work

2.  more trains, more frequently, operating faster

3.  probably added rail improvements to support the higher speeds & traffic.

 

None of this is consistent with the goals of the park or the "scenic" intentions of the railway.  Bummer because I can't think of a much more relaxing way to start & end my day than a train ride through the valley...

My vision is a bit different.  I think CVSR still keeps its role of being what it is now, it just adds additional excursions to Cleveland on weekends.

  On weekdays, Metro RTA could run DMUs to Cleveland instead of their one of their northcoast xpress buses. 

  Through the valley is a pretty direct way to get to Cleveland from Akron.  If speeds are around 40-50mph it will be as fast as driving. 

  It's interesting that, to many Clevelanders when it comes to the expansion of rail transit (extensions) or rail transit opportunities (expanded hours weekend evenings to serve more people), doing nothing is preferable to doing something.

 

Leadership Akron, United Way launch retooled program, Diversity on Board, to train minority board members

By Betty Lin-Fisher

Beacon Journal business writer

Published: September 24, 2015 - 06:14 PM | Updated: September 25, 2015 - 07:27 AM

 

A program to recruit and train minority leaders to serve on nonprofit boards was rolled out in an unusual meeting room on Wednesday night: a Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad train.

 

Forty four community members — both African-Americans and Caucasians — were on the train to discuss developing and encouraging minority leadership in nonprofit board rooms and corporations.

 

The John S. and James L. Knight Foundation rented the train for three invite-only conversations as a follow-up to the Beacon Journal’s Leadership Series that examined the Akron area’s aging leadership, and who is waiting in the wings. A train of interns and young professionals rode the rails in August. The final train will be next Wednesday for a discussion about bringing more women into top leadership. Half the participants on the train ride will be men, organizers said.

 

http://www.ohio.com/business/lin-fisher/leadership-akron-united-way-launch-retooled-program-diversity-on-board-to-train-minority-board-members-1.626875

We rode CVSR yesterday for bike aboard, it was great, great people operate that, its very beautiful, and very worth doing, more than once. But holy cow.. What a day...

 

I wouldn't mind CVSR educating and informing a trainful of GOP delegates between Akron/Cleveland for the convention. The scenic railroad is slow/scenic, but if it can haul 1000 people, then its high bandwidth. Also, I'm pretty sure this is largely a networking event, a slow train ride is a positive thing for this crowd, have wine and hors d'oeuvres on board. The train ride can be the afterparty. And have coffee+wifi in the mornings.

 

Also, it would be great if CVSR could connect to downtown Cleveland. Another negotiating tactic could include mentioning to CSX that congress just gave rail operators an extension to the PTCS deadline, so perhaps they can throw us a bone, and allow CVSR to pass through. I would add that Steelyard would be a convenient location for a station. Though I would want to evolve its stores to less chain, and more local, but would need the neighborhood to support that. And yes, tie it into the RTA system, so I can transfer on to CVSR from the redline.

 

This might be off-topic, but what would Akronites be interested in Cleveland, and what would Clevelanders be interested in Akron? I don't see the main draw as being commuters, but rather people spending a day visiting. I heard something about the Lebron Foundation using CVSR to give the kids a treat. Also, the Cavaliers practice facility is quite close to the Rockside CVSR station.

^  Not what I expected this post to be....

 

Unlike cars, bikes, trucks, people, etc, when there's an accident involving a train, it's pretty certain who was at fault...

Train catches on fire on Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/summit-county/2015/11/15/train-catches-fire-cuyahoga-valley-scenic-railroad/75845212/

CVSR rarely uses its RDCs -- especially as part of a larger consist. They usually run alone or paired with another RDC. Perhaps its lack of use was a factor in the fire?

Not a Dense Populated Area? National Park? MARC Maryland Area Rail Commuter does this everyday in the NPS C&O Canal Park. The Park and Ride here at Point of Rocks (Pop 100 People) is packed to the hilt. So the Brecksville Metropark Parking lot could be a park and ride as well as Peninsula and Rckside and Big 4 Lumber

I hear ya. The difference is that the C&O Canal Park was created while regular passenger rail service was still operating, so the NPS had to accommodate it and adapt to it. By the time the Cuyahoga Valley Recreation Area was created, the regular Cleveland-Akron passenger rail service had been gone for a decade. So when the rail service was restarted, it had to adapt to the NPS. So now the NPS has the say on what kind of rail service will operate through the park -- especially since they own and maintain the tracks. So NPS contracts with CVSR to provide a heritage, scenic and educational rail experience. And that's all they've wanted from their rail assets.

^"And that's all they've from their rail assets."

 

allowed? wanted? tolerated?  what's the key missing word?

Wanted

The Onion ‏@TheOnion  30m30 minutes ago

Experts Warn Number Of Retirees Will Completely Overwhelm Scenic Railway Industry By 2030 http://onion.com/1O337RS 

 

So in every change is either a threat or an opportunity, depending on the response (or lack thereof) to it. This is an example...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/08/canadians_buy_cleveland_therma.html#incart_river

 

No response to it means CSX will probably abandon it's tracks north of its river lift bridge below I-490, and perhaps the lift bridge too.

 

A better response would be to ask CSX to donate the unused right of way and all the fixed facilities on it to the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. The tax write-off CSX would get is likely more than they could get by selling their right of way. It would be a critical piece to get CVSR trains extended to downtown Cleveland.

CuyValleyScenicRR ‏@CVSRR  10h10 hours ago

Want unlimited access to Bike Aboard? Purchase your annual pass for just $30 before April 2! http://bit.ly/1YmDluE 

 

Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad's annual ridership reaches all-time high

January 12, 2017

By CRAIN'S AKRON BUSINESS

 

The Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad set a new mark for annual ridership in 2016.

 

The excursion railroad that takes riders through Cuyahoga Valley National Park tallied 214,063 passengers in 2016, the highest number in its 44-year history, CVSR announced in a news release.

 

"The staff and volunteers of CVSR are pleased that so many people chose our trains as a way to experience Cuyahoga Valley National Park," said Kim Gillan-Shafron, vice president-marketing and community alliances, in a statement.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170112/NEWS/170119894/cuyahoga-valley-scenic-railroads-annual-ridership-reaches-all-time

Imagine if it actually served a purpose other than scenic....with a stop in downtown Cleveland and downtown Akron!

Here's an article sans subscription.....

 

Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad sets annual attendance record: more than 200,000 passengers

http://www.cleveland.com/akron/index.ssf/2017/01/cuyahoga_valley_scenic_railroa.html#incart_river_home

 

And the original press release....

 

Ridership Increases 15% in 2016, Sets Record

https://www.cvsr.com/ridership-increases-15-2016-sets-record/

 

If a public agency or port authority acquired the CSX line north of Independence, undertook $20+ million of infrastructure upgrades and provided operating subsidies, CVSR could extend their service north to downtown Cleveland and boost ridership by another 100,000 annual trips. CVSR has seen $45+ million in capital improvements since 1990.

CVSR already does stop in downtown Akron.  A Cleveland stop has been a dream for a long while now but that $20M+ price tag is steep (note that it would be half of the entire cumulative capex of the CVSR of the past 25+ years).  But the Cleveland stop also runs the risk of wrong expectations.  CVSR might stop in both Cleveland and Akron, but it is not ever really going to be a viable mode of intercity transportation.  It remains a scenic railroad, not a commuter one.  The purpose of a Cleveland stop would be to allow the most populous city in the area a more direct way to come out and enjoy the national park, not to allow Akronites a convenient way into downtown Cleveland.

A friend of mine chaired the Cleveland extension committee 15-20 years ago when he was on the CVSR board. In 2010, I was hired as a consultant to help CVSR resuscitate the Cleveland extension project. Between my friend and I, we discovered these barriers to the extension:

 

+ CSX opposition -- before they absorbed half of Conrail in 1999, CSX was willing to sell or lease its 8 miles of track from Willow Junction below I-77 north to Tower City to the National Park Service. After 1999, CSX wouldn't return the NPS's calls. There's been rumors in recent years that CSX would again sell or lease its lightly used Valley Line to a short line (which might be willing to let CVSR on its tracks), but nothing has come of it. Buying rail lines typically costs about $1 million per mile.

+ Jennings Crossing -- below the Harvard-Denison bridge is where two parallel rail lines of CSX and Norfolk Southern that come down the Big Creek valley cross CSX's Valley Line at-grade to access the steel mills. CSX and NS are scared to death of a freight train-passenger train collision here, or more specifically the lawsuits that would follow. Alternatives are to put the Valley Line on an overpass of Jennings Crossing including at least 2,500 feet of earthen ramp on either side of the overpass -- that could cost $10 million to $20 million right there. But that's also complicated by clearance below the overhead Harvard-Denison bridge. An alternative is an inductive train stop and signal at Jennings Crossing that gives NS/CSX the right of way and blocks CVSR from entering the crossing when a CSX/NS freight train is nearby. New Jersey Transit has an inductive train stop and signal on its RiverLine at the Control Point Hatch crossing near Pavonia Yard in Camden. An inductive signal installation could cost about $1 million to $2 million.

+ CSX Clark Yard -- this was the smallest of barriers, but still involved some costs. CSX left a stub-end track running between its Clark Yard and Steelyard Commons so CVSR trains could have a passenger-only track to bypass the freight yard. But this track needed repairs/improvements and could involve installing a switch at the end of this bypass track. A switch doesn't sound like a big expense, but if it's remote-controlled by a dispatcher in Cincinnati, adds trackside signals, switch mechanism, switch heater, computer hardware, a fiber optics line, and a software change to link into CSX's computer-aided dispatching system, that switch will cost upwards of $2 million.

+ Cuyahoga River lift bridge -- maintenance on the CSX lift bridge below the I-490 bridge was less of a concern than the operation and staff of it. CSX didn't staff this lift bridge full-time because the only CSX customer north of the lift bridge was Cleveland Thermal and received coal shipments maybe 2-3 times per week. Cleveland Thermal is now fueled by natural gas. So CSX isn't staffing the lift bridge anymore (and I wonder if they're maintaining it). So 15 years ago, CVSR was concerned about the cost of staffing the lift bridge on days that CSX didn't. CVSR considered having the CSX lift bridge remote-controlled by staff at a nearby railroad lift bridge, staffed 24 hours a day by Cleveland Works Railway (a steel switching railroad). Now, CVSR or NPS would have to find a full-time solution and be solely responsible for maintaining the lift bridge which has lots of expensive moving parts. The longer this bridge isn't maintained by CSX, the more cost-ineffective it becomes to reactivate.

+ Operating costs -- while CVSR gets a lot of donations from wealthy philanthropists and private foundations, it also gets a subsidy from the National Park Service that owns the tracks south of Willow Jct. The NPS's funding is always a concern, and became a bigger concern in 2010 when federal budget cuts to NPS threatened the existing CVSR service, not to mention making expansion difficult to seriously consider. I seem to recall that a subsidy of about $100,000 per year was estimated for the Cleveland extension. That reduction in federal fund operating subsidy is what halted my consultant work.

Excellent update KJP.  With those obstacles it seems highly unlikely that CVSR is ever going to reach Tower City.

 

Is there another way to improve the connection between the Tower City station and CVSR?  What about a CVSR station at Granger or Rockside and a BRT line connecting Tower City and CVSR?

Heh.  Well, there's already a connection there, but sadly it's only really open to the able and healthy.  You can bike the Towpath Trail down from Cleveland to Independence already!  (Though I have to say it didn't look like an exciting prospect north of Harvard Road, which is the farthest north I've ever biked on it, so I have no idea what the trail is even like from Harvard to downtown.)

 

But definitely, thanks for the hard numbers on that, KJP.  Good to know what the roadblocks (no pun intended) were.

Anything is possible with political support and money. If someone the likes of Dan Gilbert said this is something he wanted and pledged $5 million dollars toward it, the project would get done. Frankly, if he had ever considered building a 1,000-car parking deck downtown (average cost per structured parking space is $30,000 or $30 million for a 1,000-car deck), he could extend the CVSR for less money and get more foot traffic. Each CVSR train carries up to 1,000 people and they run three trains in each direction from June-November (not including Polar Expresses). Oh, and Dan could get tax benefits from his donation since CVSR is a 501c3 nonprofit educational organization.

 

CVSR downtown access routes-overview01m by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

Jennings Crossing-text by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

CVSR Tower City access options-m by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

 

But yes, there is a cheaper, near-term solution to linking CSVR to downtown Cleveland. CVSR has considered shuttle buses to/from Rockside Road hotels up the hill from their station. I proposed the NPS buy the Brecksville Road Days Inn (to refurbish or demolish) and make that the northern end of CVSR. The NPS-owned stretch track ends and CSX ownership begins just over the bluff from that hotel. And, as noted, it's on Brecksville Road which has a straight shot onto I-77. RTA's 77F bus has its first stop south of downtown in front of the hotel, so it's an express ride between that spot and downtown. However, CVSR connecting passengers would overwhelm an RTA bus with passengers. So a dedicated connecting bus service just for CVSR passengers and operated by CVSR or the NPS could be provided between the hotel site and downtown Cleveland. This is what All Aboard Ohio proposed a few years ago to CVSR. Their now-retiring President Craig Holman liked the plan but never did anything with it.

 

cvsr-gcrtadowntown access-m by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

independence-rta station-overview1m by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

independence-rta station-zoom1m by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

Excellent update KJP.  With those obstacles it seems highly unlikely that CVSR is ever going to reach Tower City.

 

Cleveland was built to be a great city. It is still a great city. Its history is one of overcoming obstacles!

 

Come on folks, these obstacles can be overcome :-)

 

 

Excellent photo + essay by KJP, as usual...

 

... I get that CVSR is a tourist rail and not a commuter rail operation.  It's for enjoyment for people who want to access the park, mainly.  However, apparently some people commute via the trains now.  I'm aware of some UA students who park at Valley View and train into class.  Apparently this, and some other commuter uses aren't uncommon.

Excellent photo + essay by KJP, as usual...

 

... I get that CVSR is a tourist rail and not a commuter rail operation.  It's for enjoyment for people who want to access the park, mainly.  However, apparently some people commute via the trains now.  I'm aware of some UA students who park at Valley View and train into class.  Apparently this, and some other commuter uses aren't uncommon.

 

Not this time of year. CVSR doesn't run on weekdays from November to May.

^You're welcome... and I didn't say it was this time of year.  :wink:

^Just reviewing KJP's post from January... Would $5M and Dan's blessing really be all it takes to move CVSR's Tower City extension forward?  If so, has anyone approached him about it?  Train excursions from Valley View, Akron, Canton, Green, etc., would be a neat way to get a lot of people, esp retirees, into the JACK which as we know has been struggling a bit the last fiscal year.  I'm sure it would be a hit and would further bring positive attention to the casino.

It would get things moving in a serious direction. $5 million wouldn't build the necessary infrastructure. $20 million+ would. But $5 million gets the issue on a lot of political, foundation and business leader agendas.