Thanks, jackass. :)

Better a jackass than a bare ass.  :evil: :angel:

 

ETA:  While I appreciate the props for Akron's bustling Northside Station, I think the point about station-area development is a little overzealous or premature.  Yes, the condo tower is right there, and the Marriott is going in there--but, for example, if you didn't know VegiTerranean was there, you wouldn't know it just from hopping off at the station.  The climb from the station to the tower up the Howard Hill (yes, it deserves capital letters) isn't too bad for me, but it would be a lot more than a lot of people would want to do without a convenient pedestrian staircase, which I don't believe exists there yet.

 

I do like the fact that the parking lot is right by the boarding platform; that's so much better than what you encounter at any airport.  Nevertheless, the station as a whole isn't all that integrated with the development just beyond its perimeter, at least not yet.  A pedestrian staircase up between where Northside Lofts are and where the Marriott will be, leading into the Luigi's parking lot where the Friday lunch trolley turns around (and where VegiTerranean and a couple of other little shops are as well) would go a ways towards making it a little bit more integrated.

Better a jackass than a bare ass.  >:D :angel:

 

Says who?  ;)

 

Better a jackass than a bare ass. :evil: :angel:

 

ETA: While I appreciate the props for Akron's bustling Northside Station, I think the point about station-area development is a little overzealous or premature. Yes, the condo tower is right there, and the Marriott is going in there--but, for example, if you didn't know VegiTerranean was there, you wouldn't know it just from hopping off at the station. The climb from the station to the tower up the Howard Hill (yes, it deserves capital letters) isn't too bad for me, but it would be a lot more than a lot of people would want to do without a convenient pedestrian staircase, which I don't believe exists there yet.

 

I do like the fact that the parking lot is right by the boarding platform; that's so much better than what you encounter at any airport. Nevertheless, the station as a whole isn't all that integrated with the development just beyond its perimeter, at least not yet. A pedestrian staircase up between where Northside Lofts are and where the Marriott will be, leading into the Luigi's parking lot where the Friday lunch trolley turns around (and where VegiTerranean and a couple of other little shops are as well) would go a ways towards making it a little bit more integrated.

 

The point isn't to compare Akron's station-area development with others in, say, the East Coast, West Coast or Chicago, but to other railroad stations in Ohio. No Amtrak stations yet have any development occurring next to them or as a result of them because there isn't the rail service to motivate such development yet. So having a condo tower, some townhouses and a 10-story hotel is nothing short of earth-shattering for Ohio. But it shows, even with just five arrivals and five departures a day, that's enough to warrant the construction of several important structures.

 

And there is a pretty substantial stairway on the east flank of the Northside Lofts.

I stand corrected, then.  Managed to miss that.

But the stairwell only goes about half-way up the hill. And my 81-year-old father couldn't climb it. Perhaps the new Marriott will be designed in such a way to include an escalator and/or perhaps an elevator as part of a public concourse through the building. Doubtful, but one can hope!

 

And there's always the Metro RTA downtown Akron circulator, which I believe is free to anyone displaying a valid CVSR ticket. I know the SARTA circulator is, but since Akron Metro is so closely associated with CVSR (it reimburses CVSR for costs not covered by fares, it owns 51 miles of track in Greater Akron-Canton, and it owns six of CVSR's coaches) I would hope the same deal would apply with Akron Metro.

Go Akron!

I was at Akron with KJP and I can categorically state that there are great opportunities for development in the immediate area if the CVSRR continues to develop. Local bus transit already connects with CVSRR, making it a defacto regional transportation system. Further improvements will make the area a magnet for more.

 

As KJP points out, this is one of the few areas in Ohio where development is occuring near a train station. We are so far behind the curve we have to play "small ball" by nurturing places and opportunities like Akron.

Is there something wrong with "small ball?"

 

Grand Central Station wasn't built in a day.  I think the incrementalist approach has a lot to be said for it.  Grand Schemes tend to arouse much more public suspicion.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with small ball. We have to be realistic and try to work with what we have.

They won't even come to the table to discuss the extension without money on the table to show that CVSR is serious.

 

What?!??  How can you come to the table with the money unless you talk to the railroad to find out what their "wants" are first so you know how much money to come to the table with? 

The wants are defined by a quick phone call, letter or e-mail. Coming to the table means more commitment, such as negotiating. CVSR has nothing to negotiate with.

Former Nickel Plate steam locomotive 765, operated by Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society and currently the largest steam locomotive operating east of the Mississippi River, will pull excursion trains on the CVSR in September:

 

http://fortwaynerailroad.org/

http://www.cvsr.com/steam-in-the-valley.aspx

 

Yesterday, July 24, All Aboard Ohio held its Summer Meeting and Family Outing on the CVSR. Some (including me) boarded at Brecksville, while the rest got on at Akron. I haven't ridden the CVSR in a long time. It has changed a lot over the years, getting bigger and more sophisticated! I was very impressed with their professionalism, volunteerism and customer service yesterday. The quality of the rail service is very good, especially north of Akron, where speeds have been raised from 15-25 mph to up to 40 mph in many places. The second-hand (or third-hand) train coaches are in pretty good condition and ride well. I was pleased the air conditioning was working consistently in all cars, especially on a humid, 90-degree day. The tracks are upgraded, grade crossing gates/flashers are all new, there are many new/rebuilt bridges along the route and the stations are nicely done and well maintained. It shows the benefit of $35 million (mostly from the federal government) worth of infrastructure over the past decade! The food and merchandise offerings in the train cafe cars are great, plus their amenities -- audio/headset tour & route info, Bike Aboard and park ranger programs make passengers feel welcome and engaged.

 

Yesterday, there was something especially nice about riding an air-conditioned train through a woodsy park on a steamy morning, taking that passenger train into a decent-sized Ohio city's downtown. And doing so with the knowledge that this passenger railroad offers several daily round trip schedules five days a week north of Akron and two daily round trips south of Akron, on bicycle-friendly trains into stations served by connecting downtown-loop buses, it changes one's view of the CVSR from that of a toy into a serious transportation service.

 

But let these pictures tell the tale...

 

Boarding at Brecksville just after 9 a.m., and the temperature is already into the 80s. As a city dweller, the dew-heavy air in the valley in this National Park smelled incredibly clean...

 

 

Bicycles! Stack em', pack em' and rack em'! CVSR expects to handle 24,000 bicycles this year!!

 

 

Onboard a former Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC) coach, owned by the Akron Metro RTA...

 

 

A mostly volunteer crew works the Bike Aboard car, which has a low-tech CVSR-made racking system and chalkboard to keep track of bikes...

 

 

The train arrives at Akron Northside (refers to being on the northern edge of downtown) and the unloading of bikes and passengers begin...

 

 

It's a busy time at Akron Northside. Within minutes of each other, three passenger trains came through Akron Northside. Before the "traffic jam" was the Akron-Canton train which came through about 7:30 a.m. and went to Canton for a 9 a.m. northbound departure from that city. Then at about 10 a.m. came a charter train for a nonprofit group which pulled into a yard southeast of the depot to wait. At 10:10 a.m., the Canton train arrived and unloaded its northbound passengers, then backed out of the station. Next, at 10:20 a.m. our train from Independence and Brecksville arrived. After it unloaded its southbound passengers and loaded its northbound passengers, it departed at 10:40 a.m. for Independence. After it cleared, in came our train for Canton. After it loaded its southbound passengers, the Canton train departed at 10:45 a.m. Next was the charter train which pulled in and loaded its passengers then headed north. Perhaps one station track isn't enough at Ohio's busiest railroad station?

 

 

The Akron Northside station is also busy thanks to intermodal connections, including this Akron Metro RTA downtown loop bus, which is free for passengers displaying a valid CVSR day pass or ticket...

 

 

Did I say the Akron Northside station can be busy?? It likely is used by more passengers than any other railroad station in Ohio, including Amtrak's MLK Plaza station in Toledo...

 

 

The station-area development (condo tower, restaurant, townhouses, planned Marriott hotel etc) also makes the Akron station a vibrant setting...

 

 

The Canton train is arriving the Akron station to load southbound passengers...

 

 

On board the Canton train, an All Aboard Ohio member snaps a photo of the chartered train waiting in a rail yard southeast of the Akron station for our train to clear out of the way...

 

 

 

Sights along the way to Canton include the Goodyear Airdock and blimp hovering nearby to get aerial views of the Soapbox Derby....

 

 

Our train arrives the Canton Lincoln Highway Station (on West Tuscarawas Street near I-77) where SARTA offers a connecting downtown loop bus for CVSR passengers. For free, it takes passengers displaying valid CVSR tickets to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, McKinley Monument, art museum, Canton Car Museum and more....

 

The Canton station....

 

 

SARTA provided a dedicated bus for our All Aboard Ohio group as we would have overloaded a regular SARTA bus. Many thanks SARTA!

 

 

We had a nice day in Canton, including a luncheon meeting at Peter Shear's restaurant, 427 East Tuscarawas Street. But this thread is about CVSR, so I'll stick to rail-related photos. So here we return to Akron from Canton...

 

This shows the proximity of the station-area development to the train. Makes it real convenient to reach the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, as the CVSR operates year-round train service....

 

 

Stairway to heaven? Stairway to downtown Akron! This stairway leads from the train station to Furnace Street. Just killin' time snapping pics after the Canton train has backed out of the station to make way for the southound train from Independence which will return to Independence....

 

 

"I hear that train a-coming 'round the bend..." Thank you Johnny Cash! This is the southbound train from Independence arriving the Akron Northside station...

 

 

Smiling happy passengers....

 

 

Kids & trains -- a magical combination!

 

 

After these bikes are unloaded, northbound passengers will board and the train will head back to Peninsula, Brecksville and Independence into the teeth of a severe thunderstorm! So no more pictures after this! But it was a fun day on a terrific scenic railroad that carried 152,000 passengers last year -- more than Amtrak did in Ohio in 2009! Shows that substantial federal investment in infrastructure, supportive operating partners from among the public and private sectors, and multiple daily daytime trains between Ohio cities, tourism sites and recreational destinations will bring significant rail ridership! Now this is a way to run a railroad!!

Good travelogue.  I took the train on Thursday for the bike and ride and the train seemed to be filled with people. For a weekday I was expecting half as full.  Based on that, I would say they should blow last year's numbers away. 

 

It sounds like they will need to add sidings to all the Akron stops.  Yes, I expect the stations to become much busier in the near future. 

 

KJP, was there any insight from your gathering?

Here's an insight....

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,11978.msg501190.html#msg501190

It took a lot of searching, but I found the schedule for the free Akron Metro RTA downtown circulator bus that connects with CVSR trains. This shouldn't be that hard to find.....

 

http://www.akronmetro.org/SharedFiles/Download.aspx?pageid=76&fileid=239&mid=118

 

And just to put all this stuff in one place, here's the SARTA downtown circulator bus too.....

 

http://www.sartaonline.com/pdf/routes/801_print.pdf

I really enjoyed your pictures KJP.  I would love to take my bike north from Canton to the Cuyahoga Valley, ride the trails and then return.  Maybe I will get a chance in August.  Peter Shears sounds great, I haven't been there since the management change last year.  The area surrounding the Akron station is nice, Luigi's is a popular spot.  The Canton stations surroundings are not quite as pleasant unfortunately.  There is an old building standing next to the station that is pretty run down, the good news is that the Preservation society owns it and they have a long term plan to breath renovate it.

Thanks! Glad to hear about plans to renovate the buildings around the Canton station. We looked for a restaurant or other nice place within walking distance of the station to hold our meeting. But none looked very attractive.

Posted a whole bunch of pictures at:

 

Akron Northside-CVSR station area

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24186.msg504776.html#msg504776

 

 

Here's a few more I shot on Aug. 7:

 

This is the area around the Akron Northside station. This is looking north on Howard Street. Note the CVSR train down the hill:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a former self-propelled Rail Diesel Car that was completely refurbished by CVSR's own crews thanks to donations from Invacare Corp. This is CVSR's wheelchair-accessible car, which looks and smells brand-new:

 

 

 

 

 

$35 million in federal funding through the National Park Service (which owns the tracks that CVSR uses) helped rebuild the rail corridor with high-quality infrastructure, including smoother tracks and modern grade crossing safety devices such as this at Riverview Road south of Peninsula:

 

 

 

Or this Towpath Trail underpass of the railroad near Deep Quarry:

 

 

 

 

Remnants of a lock on the Ohio & Erie Canal:

 

 

A few years ago the National Park Service completely rebuilt this 19th century rail bridge over the Cuyahoga River near Deep Quarry picnic area:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Random curve shot on the CVSR:

 

Amazing to think this is the busiest passenger railroad track in the entire state of Ohio. Five days a week it sees at least eight daily passenger trains including two deadhead Canton trains but not including extras, specials and fundraiser trips:

 

 

Brecksville depot:

 

 

It's right next to the Station Road bridge which is now used exclusively for the Towpath Trail:

 

 

It's also a great place to take pictures:

 

 

 

 

Get on board before Summer is over! Although CVSR runs year-round but not as often after October.

Fabulous!

Very nice indeed.

Here's a statistic for all of ya....

 

Not only is CVSR the most heavily passenger rail service in Ohio, it is more heavily used than five state-supported Amtrak services!

 

CVSR’s 152,000 riders in 2009 were greater than the 2009 ridership on:

 

+ The Missouri River Runner (St. Louis-Kansas City: 151,000 riders)

+ Pere Marquette (Grand Rapids-Chicago: 103,000)

+ Heartland Flyer (Oklahoma City-Fort Worth: 82,000)

+ Vermonter (St. Albans-Washington DC: 74,000)

+ Ethan Allen Express (Rutland-New York City: 47,000)

 

Ohioans won't ride trains? Pshaw! They already are.

Get the CVSR into Terminal Tower and those numbers will double.  CVSR won't know what to do with all the extra fare receipts!

Redirected from the Ohio Photos thread...

 

The extra thousands which could possibly enter Tower City wouldn't hurt I'm sure.  I wonder if Forest City would back this?  It would seem like a no-brainer to get more people into the stores.  If the line were actually extended, I would find it hard to believe that we won't see the Scranton Peninsula redeveloped within the next few years- I mean come on... a casino along with the CVSR being extended to Tower City?  Talk about connectivity.

 

CVSR's former president Doug Cooper is also an executive at Forest City Enterprises. Trust me, these two outfits are still interconnected. But extending CVSR to Tower City (or alternatively to Settlers Landing) will not be cheap or easy.

 

Extending CVSR north at least five miles to Steelyard Commons and eventually the full eight miles north to downtown Cleveland could easily exceed the $35 million in capital investments made thus far to the rest of the 51-mile system.

 

But it could also raise CVSR ridership to an entirely new level, something that the railroad’s board of directors is keenly aware of, as are many in Cleveland’s business and political community.

 

Here are just some of the barriers:

 

> CSX. This freight railroad is less friendly to passenger rail than many other freight railroads. And it owns the eight miles of track north of Rockside Road to Tower City (the National Park Service owns the track south of Rockside). While federal law says railroad right of way/property owners have to allow Amtrak on their tracks, CVSR has no such benefit. If CSX is to allow CVSR on its tracks north of Rockside Road, then CVSR or someone on its behalf will have to make a compelling economic reason to CSX to play ball. A possibility is for CSX to allow its tracks to be declared as part of the National Park Service's Ohio & Erie Canal National Heritage Corridor. If they agree, then the NPS might purchase some of CSX's right of way (namely the lesser used section south of Havard Road) or acquire a strip of land next to CSX's tracks (north of Harvard Road) for CVSR/NPS to build its own track.

 

> Liability insurance. There are two locations that CSX is especially unenthusiastic about CVSR passenger trains traversing. Having a huge amount of no-fault liability insurance coverage may be required before the freight railroads will share these locations with CVSR trains. One location is a three-track crossing called Jennings. The other is the CSX lift bridge over the Cuyahoga River below I-490.

 

Jennings is an at-grade crossing of three rail lines below the Harvard-Denison Bridge. CSX's Valley Line (that CVSR wants to use) crosses the CSX Cleveland Subdivision (runs by the zoo and I-71 before turning south to Brooklyn, Strongsville and Medina) and the Norfolk Southern Cleveland Belt track (runs past the zoo to CP Knob to connect with the Cloggsville Line to Rockport Yard). These tracks see heavy-duty freight trains with lots of coal, coke and steel-related traffic. CVSR may be allowed to traverse Jennings -- if the crossing has lots of protective signals, possibly including Positive Train Control which automatically slows/stops a train if a signal is ignored. And if CVSR carried sufficient liability insurance -- freight railroads want a passenger train operator to have $500 million in coverage before letting them on or across their tracks. That means huge premiums. And the policy will have to be no-fault coverage, meaning the freight railroads are held harmless in the event of an accident with a passenger train. Their rationale is that the accident involving the passenger train wouldn't have happened but for the presence of the passenger train. They're the landlord, so it's their rules. The only other way to avoid the Jennings crossing is to build a CVSR-only track up and over the CSX Cleveland Subdivision track and the NS Cleveland Belt track. Building such a "fly-over" could easily cost in the $20 million to $30 million range.

 

The CSX Cuyahoga River crossing below I-490 is another barrier. CSX is nervous about mixing passenger trains, movable bridges and navigable waterways ever since 1993 when Amtrak's Sunset Limited went off a CSX bridge dislodged by a barge on Big Bayou Canot, Alabama. Of the 220 people on the train, 47 died and 103 were injured. CSX was found partially at fault for not having sufficient lighting on the bridge, even though it was not a navigable waterway. Liability claims resulting from this crash reached $300 million. On the Cuyahoga there were once two lift bridges each with two tracks on them. One of the bridges that belonged to the Newburg & South Shore Railroad was removed. The remaining bridge, owned and staffed by CSX, is still in use but just one of the two tracks left in place. CVSR/NPS might use the existing CSX track across the Cuyahoga lift bridge, build its own track across the existing CSX bridge, build its own lift bridge where the N&SS bridge was located, or use another route into downtown such as via Scranton Peninsula which requires acquiring and restoring a rail right of way that's been gone for three decades. The least expensive capital cost options for CVSR/NPS involve using the existing CSX lift bridge, but those probably aren't the least expensive in terms of operating costs (ie: insurance premiums could increase CVSR's $4.7 million annual operating budget by $1 million to $3 million per year). The other options of restoring the N&SS lift bridge or restoring the Scranton Peninsula rail line will cost tens of millions of dollars (possibly upwards of $50 million?).

 

So there are no easy or inexpensive answers to the Cleveland extension. But the answers most likely reside in the National Park Service taking control of the extension through right of way acquisition and access. If their budget can be increased so they can afford this responsibility, then they mostly likely will take it on.

The plan to get to Steelyard Commons doesn't seem insurmountable.  It makes sense that the primary mover will be the NPS.  The next logical step would be to get the CVSR to a major station closer to Cleveland.  The relatively deep pockets of the NPS with their goal of improving access would pretty much necessitate this.  I don't think there is much usage of the tracks by CSX south of Harvard.  Notice on Google Maps that there is a CVSR train parked North of Rockside road. 

Sorry Tedolph....

Geez, tedolph, forget the mayor! What it is with you and the mayor? Mayors have less power than ever in U.S. history, especially when it comes to transportation. A railroad is interstate commerce and, by definition of the U.S. Constitution, is a matter of concern for the federal government. It's great to have the mayor's support (which CVSR does) but it's not essential to have him actively involved.

OK, on to more relevant issues, here is the Jennings crossing of rail lines and what CVSR might need to do to bridge this site....

 

...

The Mayor is the key to everything.

 

Maybe in Munchkinland.

 

Now can we get back to terra firma?

 

Perhaps he means the other mayor in Akron..

 

  This would be a pretty big step up for the CVSR in "service".  It would potentially overwhelm their volunteer workforce with throngs of people wanting to bring on packages purchased from Steelyard Commons stores in addition to the sightseeing tourists.

 

  I still think a separate passenger rail service from Akron Metro RTA is in order.  CVSR does what it does very well.  I would hate to see it lose its focus because its trying to be all things for everyone.

Perhaps he means the other mayor in Akron..

 

  This would be a pretty big step up for the CVSR in "service". It would potentially overwhelm their volunteer workforce with throngs of people wanting to bring on packages purchased from Steelyard Commons stores in addition to the sightseeing tourists.

 

I still think a separate passenger rail service from Akron Metro RTA is in order. CVSR does what it does very well. I would hate to see it lose its focus because its trying to be all things for everyone.

 

Agreed. Turning the CVSR into a commuter line would diminish what it already does very well.....not to mention potentialy turning away all of those visitors to the National Park that come (in part) for the nostalgic train trip.....and the out-of-town dollars they bring into the local economy.

Perhaps he means the other mayor in Akron..

 

  This would be a pretty big step up for the CVSR in "service". It would potentially overwhelm their volunteer workforce with throngs of people wanting to bring on packages purchased from Steelyard

 

I think that's a bad reason to nix the idea. If the workforce is overwhelmed, that means they'll be collecting more user fees, which in turn allows them to hire paid employees. There's also no reason why they couldn't acquire more rolling stock and create a separate entity that provides the vanilla "coach" commuter service and then run the "scenic" trains at different times. Under one operations umbrella, they could provide far more efficient service.

 

CVSR already has the rolling stock, the knowledge, and the right-of-way. It's already there, and it's a good backbone for demonstrating that service can be provided efficiently and cheaply. I'd think bringing a government entity in to push it around would muck up their service more than it is now.

Eh, I'm not nixing the idea..  I'm saying it is more a time for Metro RTA to put on big boy pants and start using the rail lines that they own as part of their own expanded service.  Whether they would be able to negotiate with the CVNP in order to use the rights of ways through the rest of the Cuyahoga Valley to get to Steelyard Commons and beyond is another question.  I'm just saying that not only is this a question of whether it is worth the cost of getting past the Jenning's junction.  Its also a good place to re-assess the capabilities of CVSR with their goals and the same with Metro.  At this point Metro has decided to leave the "train business" to CVSR.  They own a lot of track that happens to go to a lot of populated places.  What does it take for Metro to decide that they have the ROW and demand they need to start using the train as a core part of their system?  They keep receiving ever increasing amounts of revenue from CVSR for using their tracks and their trains. 

 

Perhaps something can be worked out as a dual role of CVSR if Metro starts sending money back to them to provide the service with paid employees and fuel.

Perhaps he means the other mayor in Akron..

 

  This would be a pretty big step up for the CVSR in "service". It would potentially overwhelm their volunteer workforce with throngs of people wanting to bring on packages purchased from Steelyard Commons stores in addition to the sightseeing tourists.

 

I still think a separate passenger rail service from Akron Metro RTA is in order. CVSR does what it does very well. I would hate to see it lose its focus because its trying to be all things for everyone.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant.  The other Mayor, the one in Akron. 

 

Thanks Audidave!

This would be a pretty big step up for the CVSR in "service".  It would potentially overwhelm their volunteer workforce with throngs of people wanting to bring on packages purchased from Steelyard Commons stores in addition to the sightseeing tourists.

 

I still think a separate passenger rail service from Akron Metro RTA is in order.  CVSR does what it does very well.  I would hate to see it lose its focus because its trying to be all things for everyone.

 

I'm sure CVSR's goal here would be to increase access to the National Park and thus their core business.  I don't really see how they would allow it to dilute their primary mission.

 

I think the NPS would like to make CUVA more accessible to city residents too, without encouraging more car traffic-- hence their interest in the project.  CUVA' s new park superintendent starts (started) this month.  We'll have to wait and see what his stance will be, though I don't see why he wouldn't be interested in finding a way to make it work.

 

Given the complications, I don't see how this could go forward without the NPS getting involved, as well as some federal earmarks from Congress.  Perhaps there also needs to be some liability limits given to the railroads via the legislative process too.  Liability insurance is a major hurdle for passenger rail projects, be they tourist railroads, commuter, or intercity.  It's an especially difficult hurdle for tourist railroads. 

 

 

 

Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad

P.O. Box 158

Peninsula, OH 44264

(800) 468-4070

www.CVSR.com

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – Friday, August 27, 2010

Contact: Kelly Steele, Director of Marketing

(330) 657-1915 / [email protected]

 

           

  Steam Returns to the Valley September 2010

 

Peninsula, OH. – Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad (CVSR) announces the

return of steam engines to the Cuyahoga Valley September 2010, with

numerous events and activities all month long for everyone to enjoy.

 

CVSR will be welcoming two historic steam engines:  The Nickel Plate Road

2-8-4 Berkshire No. 765 is a high-stepping, fourteen wheeled magnificent

machine that stands 15 feet tall, weighs 404 tons and goes over 60 miles

per hour.  It has been restored to the way it looked and sounded when it

was built by the Lima Locomotive Works in 1944.  This engine is the largest

operating steam locomotive east of the Mississippi, and is the pride of the

Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society.

 

The other engine, the Viscose Company #6 is a 1925, Baldwin-built,

coal-fired 040 saddle tank engine and comes to CVSR from New York.

 

Steam Gala, to be  held at CVSR’s  Brecksville Station on September 12,

will kick off the offering of events centered around the engines.  Other

events being offered include tours of CVSR’s Fitzwater Maintenance Yard, a

BBQ and Steam Fest on September 18th at Howe Meadow, an evening photo shoot on September 25th, and tours through Cuyahoga Valley National Park on

September 25 and 26th.

 

A complete listing of events, including the regular scenic schedule and

Bike Aboard! which will be running amid the Steam events,  as well as the

ability to purchase tickets,  is on CVSR’s website: www.CVSR.com.

Information can also be obtained by calling CVSR’s offices at (800)

468-4070.

 

CVSR is a private sector, not-for-profit 501 ©(3) volunteer supported

organization operating in partnership with Cuyahoga Valley National Park

and is dedicated to the preservation of passenger rail transportation in

Cuyahoga Valley and along the historic Ohio & Erie Canalway.

 

CVNP encompasses 33,000 acres along the Cuyahoga River between Cleveland

and Akron. Managed by the National Park Service, CVNP combines cultural,

historical, recreational, and natural activities in one setting. For more

information about the park, visit www.nps.gov/cuva/ or

www.dayinthevalley.com/ or call (330) 657-2752.

 

 

Impressive.  What a photo op that will be. 

NKP 765 is a magnificent machine. I volunteered with FWRHS in the 1980s, and although I was tied down by gainful employment at the time, I got to accompany it to a few excursion venues and took a lot of photos. I never did any of the glamorous stuff -- more like sweeping out cars, washing windows, occasionally serving as a car host, and hauling trash. I did get to ride in the cab and atop the tender for part of an equipment move between Bellevue and Orrville at 50mph around 1985, and it was a memorable experience.

 

A whole big set of NKP 765 photos is here.

 

The official FWRHS site is here.

Some very nice shots of NKP #765 on the CVSR at this link:

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=60315

^We have tickets for the morning run this coming Saturday.  Anyone know what time CVSR will be shuttling the locomotive down from Fitzwater  Yard to Akron Northside? 

Some very nice shots of NKP #765 on the CVSR at this link:

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=60315

 

Funny that the photographer referred to CVSR's normal service as a "bike train." Apparently he's not too familiar with CVSR's regular operations, and that only 21,000 of CVSR's 152,000 passengers bring bikes with them. But perception is often more compelling than reality.

Rode one of the steam excursions last Saturday (9/25) that the CVSR had for their annual "Steam in the Valley" event. 

 

For the most part it went well, but there was some key disorganization on the part of CVSR that I found both surprising and disappointing.

 

1.  Boarding was completely disorganized.  Someone on the crew should have been given a megaphone in order to speak to the crowd of boarding passengers in order to give them boarding instructions.  Instead, passengers were walking around confused asking the crew questions they couldn't answer.  The crew personnel were not prepared by their management to answer simple questions like:  "where is the dome car" or "where is car number XXX".  The crew didn't even understand the car numbering scheme that was being used.  One of the crew even told me "they don't tell us anything". 

 

2.  They de-boarded everyone at Indigo Lake so the train could to a run-by that passengers could watch, photograph, film, etc.  De-boarding was just as disorganized as boarding.  First we were told to go in one end of the car to get off, then several minutes later, while we were still waiting in line to get off that we were told to go to the other end of the car.  Second, they should have also been on the loudspeaker before everyone got off explaining safety procedures: staying on one side of the tracks, not standing too close to the tracks for taking our photos, etc.  It was a mess with CVSR employees trying to herd people around and keep them away from the tracks after everyone was off the train. 

 

3.  Again, no boarding instructions when we got back on the train at Indigo Lake. 

 

4.  When we got off the train at Akron Northside Station at the end of the excursion, again, there were no de-boarding instructions and we went through similar de-boarding problems.  Get off at this end of the car, a line forms, then  several minutes later "sorry folks get off at the other end".  Then there was something about a brake test in the middle of the de-boarding process that wasn't explained, except to a few people within earshot of the train personnel with radios.  Hello CVSR... you have a loudspeaker system on your trains.  Please use it!

 

Overall, it was a good experience, but it was disappointing that there wasn't better organization. Lack of organization could impact safety, if they aren't careful. 

 

Video I shot:

 

 

 

Nicely done and good location away from the others! I hate videos where there's tons of railfans in the view, and you can hear lots of them blabbering away. I'm not a big steam guy, but that looked pretty impressive.

Nice job with the video, smooth and steady. CVSR has decent track that let them get a nice roll on the train, and that makes for a good show.

 

The locomotive can really hustle; where track and operating conditions permit, it's easily capable of speeds in the mid-seventies. Around 1985 I rode along on an equipment move with no passengers, where one of the guys in the crew car clocked 76mph over a couple of mileposts.

 

If I recall correctly, the 2-8-4 Berkshires were ordered from Lima Locomotive for the fast freight service that was the Nickel Plate's claim to fame, and their high-stepping performance resulted in their being used in passenger service as well.

CVSR may be able to first extend north five miles to Steelyard Commons with a northward extension of the National Heritage Corridor. But getting from there to Tower City will be even more complicated. Here is a means to help pay for the last three miles......

 

Friday, October 8, 2010

Cincinnati streetcar spur could connect downtown casino

Developer Rock Ventures may fund line extension

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Courier Senior Staff Reporter

 

The developers of Harrah’s Entertainment casino at Broadway Commons are talking with city officials about paying for a streetcar spur that would run to the downown casino district.

 

At least one local rail transit supporter said the casino’s endorsement of Cincinnati’s streetcar system could act as a catalyst for a regional light-rail system.

 

“Connectivity is important if you want the casino to be more than an episodic experience. We don’t want people to just drive there, gamble and leave,” said Matt Cullen, president and chief operating officer of Rock Ventures LLC, the Detroit-based company that owns casino rights in Cincinnati.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/10/11/story1.html?b=1286769600^4058481

^I guess that's one good thing about the casinos

a far flung wish would be having rail to steelyard

 

Not so far flung. Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad is pursuing it. I realize you were probably thinking light rail, streetcar, etc. But there is rail service in active project development.

 

Yell at me if this belongs in a different thread, but what exactly is the CVSR pursuing?  Trains all the way to Tower City?  If so, where would they come in?

 

EDIT:  This was moved from another thread.  Thanks for the link, KJP.  I see at the start of this thread it is mentioned that the trains would come in at Canal Rd.  Is this still what is being considered or are they looking at getting the trains into the Tower City parking deck?

 

Yell at me if this belongs in a different thread, but what exactly is the CVSR pursuing?  Trains all the way to Tower City?  If so, where would they come in?

 

I see at the start of this thread it is mentioned that the trains would come in at Canal Rd.  Is this still what is being considered or are they looking at getting the trains into the Tower City parking deck?

 

Check out my postings starting at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3566.msg498504.html#msg498504

And several maps in postings below that.

 

CVSR's first move is to get the proposed Towpath Trail routing and CSX railway designated as a northward extension of the Ohio & Erie Canal National Heritage Corridor all the way north into downtown Cleveland. Next the National Park Service may seek access to or purchase of the CSX right of way, for at least the five miles north to Steelyard Commons. The NPS could then work out access agreements with CSX (probably for nighttime freight service) and CVSR (for daytime passenger service). First Interstate, which built Steelyard Commons, has already promised to build a station for CVSR at its retail complex. A big hitch in this is the Jennings Crossing of busier CSX and NS tracks below the Harvard-Denison bridge. Building a flyover bridge for CVSR just isn't going to be affordable. What is more likely is a heavily protected at-grade crossing, with interlocked switches tied in with a traffic control system to prevent trains from inadvertently rolling into the crossing and into the path of another train. It will cost millions, but that's better than the tens of millions that a flyover bridge would cost.

 

Getting from Steelyard Commons to downtown has its own set of problems. First, as noted before, there are two routing options. One routing is a rail corridor that's been abandoned for 30 years. It needs new or rebuilt bridges (including reactivating a huge, out-of-commission railroad lift bridge over the Cuyahoga River and putting back a major, high bridge above Scranton Road at University Ave.) plus lots of property acquisitions. But it offers a freight train-free routing into downtown.

 

Instead, Tower City is probably the best downtown terminus for a number of reasons. One, it may require fewer capital improvements -- it is an active CSX rail line (albeit not very busy). But the passenger trains will have to use a CSX owned and operated lift bridge (below I-490) and CVSR doesn't have $500 milllion in liability insurance that freight railroads require of a passenger operator.

 

Tower City is also the best site because the CVSR station could be incorporated into the basement of the new $600 million casino with accessways up into the Tower City Center complex provided as part of the casino. That would allow it to link up with the hub of RTA's transit operations. And, given the pledged financial support of the Cincinnati casino for a extension of the streetcar to that casino, perhaps the Cleveland casino might be similarly generous with regards to the CVSR extension?

 

Oh, one more thing, with the success of CVSR's Bike Aboard program, it might be a terrific tie-in with the proposed fast-track bicycling velodrome in Slavic Village. A station at the intersection of Independence and Broadway avenues would be less than a mile from the cycling velodrome. I'm told CVSR and velodrome promoters are doing at least some communication, if not coordination.

 

But first things first -- a northward extension of the Ohio & Erie Canal National Heritage Corridor must happen. Everything else will flow from that.