Another interesting point just came to mind regarding the school district question: Part of Cleveland Heights is within the East Cleveland City School District (the streets near Caledonia Elementary School). If mayoral control of schools means the ECCSD is dissolved into CMSD, then I think there may be issues with including a portion of Cleveland Heights into CMSD.

 

As we've debated over and over again, I vehemently oppose giving the "good" parts of East Cleveland to Cleveland Heights. As a Cleveland resident, I strongly support the merger but would just as strongly oppose it if we don't get ALL of it. All or nothing.

 

Second, as a poster just reiterated, school districts are completely different entities. The school district would stay independent even with a city merger

Another interesting point just came to mind regarding the school district question: Part of Cleveland Heights is within the East Cleveland City School District (the streets near Caledonia Elementary School). If mayoral control of schools means the ECCSD is dissolved into CMSD, then I think there may be issues with including a portion of Cleveland Heights into CMSD.

I'm quite surprised there haven't been "issues" already, considering the relative quality of the districts. 

As we've debated over and over again, I vehemently oppose giving the "good" parts of East Cleveland to Cleveland Heights. As a Cleveland resident, I strongly support the merger but would just as strongly oppose it if we don't get ALL of it. All or nothing.

 

Second, as a poster just reiterated, school districts are completely different entities. The school district would stay independent even with a city merger

 

First off, as a Cleveland resident, there isn't that much meat on the bone, so enjoy.

 

Second, I fully understand that school districts and municipalities are separate entities. However, as a Cleveland resident, you should know that CMSD is not separate from the city, it is under mayoral control. That is why the question is one to consider.

Or lets just merge Cleveland Heights in with us as well at the same time. Then we all get Forest Hill! :D

Just noticed something interesting... One of East Cleveland's schools is located in Cleveland Heights and includes students from CH: Caledonia Elementary School.

 

Another interesting tidbit... Since the Cleveland Metropolitan School District is allowed to admit students who don't live in the City of Cleveland, I suspect the transition might be easier. The East Cleveland School District could be phased out, but I don't think it has to be. There are non-CMSD schools in the City of Cleveland and even are allowed access to some of the CMSD's funding.

Just noticed something interesting... One of East Cleveland's schools is located in Cleveland Heights and includes students from CH: Caledonia Elementary School.

 

Yeah I mentioned that above. There was actually a push about two decades ago to have this area transferred into the CH-UH City School District. "Mayor" Kelley even got involved in trying to make it happen. My suspicion is that folks living in that area would put up a bit of a fight if that part of CH was to become part of CMSD.

Given that parts of Shaker Square are in the SH school district and the city of Cleveland, yet the SH schools aren't under Frank Jackson's control, I'm not sure why this would be any different.

Because it's the other way around. If EC becomes Cleveland and the EC school district follows suit, then residents in that part of Cleveland Hts currently in the EC will be within the CMSD.

 

If it was parts of EC that were in the CH-UH school district then it would be the same set up as Shaker Heights and Shaker Square.

Given that parts of Shaker Square are in the SH school district and the city of Cleveland, yet the SH schools aren't under Frank Jackson's control, I'm not sure why this would be any different.

 

Because it's the other way around in this case, and it involves the area of an entire school district. My suspicion is that if/when the merger goes through, it won't be long after that there will be talk of dissolving ECCSD into CMSD.

As we've debated over and over again, I vehemently oppose giving the "good" parts of East Cleveland to Cleveland Heights. As a Cleveland resident, I strongly support the merger but would just as strongly oppose it if we don't get ALL of it. All or nothing.

 

Second, as a poster just reiterated, school districts are completely different entities. The school district would stay independent even with a city merger

 

First off, as a Cleveland resident, there isn't that much meat on the bone, so enjoy.

 

Second, I fully understand that school districts and municipalities are separate entities. However, as a Cleveland resident, you should know that CMSD is not separate from the city, it is under mayoral control. That is why the question is one to consider.

 

Wrong again. In the state of Ohio, school districts are COMPLETELY separate legal entities. CMSD a being under mayoral control has NOTHING to do with it because the East Cleveland School District is a separate legal entity from the CMSD. That would have to be explicitly agreed upon to merge in order for it to happen. I don't understand what's so hard to see here. The East Cleveland School District exists whether there is an East Cleveland or not. The only thing that would merge the two is an explicit merger. This is pretty clear

As we've debated over and over again, I vehemently oppose giving the "good" parts of East Cleveland to Cleveland Heights. As a Cleveland resident, I strongly support the merger but would just as strongly oppose it if we don't get ALL of it. All or nothing.

 

Second, as a poster just reiterated, school districts are completely different entities. The school district would stay independent even with a city merger

 

First off, as a Cleveland resident, there isn't that much meat on the bone, so enjoy.

 

Second, I fully understand that school districts and municipalities are separate entities. However, as a Cleveland resident, you should know that CMSD is not separate from the city, it is under mayoral control. That is why the question is one to consider.

 

And if there isn't any meat on the bone, then why do you want any of it? (Great way to view people btw)

 

And for the record:

 

"The ordinance provided for in section 709.23 of the Revised Code, or the petition provided for in section 709.24 of the Revised Code, shall specify whether annexation is desired for corporate municipal purposes only, or for such purposes and for school purposes. In case annexation is desired both for corporate municipal purposes and for school purposes, such questions shall be submitted separately, but may be printed upon the same ballot. The legislative authorities in both municipal corporations in such case shall certify a copy of such ordinance or petition to the board of education of their respective municipal corporations, each of which shall, within thirty days, appoint three commissioners who shall meet forthwith and, within fifteen days, negotiate the terms of annexation for school purposes and certify such terms to their respective boards of education. Such boards shall, by resolution, submit the question of annexing such school district in the manner provided by law.

 

Such question as to annexation for school purposes shall be submitted to the electors of the respective school districts in which such municipal corporations are situated, irrespective of deviations of school district boundaries from those of the affected municipal corporations."

 

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/709.25

Recall there is a section of Cleveland that is still a part of Shaker Heights schools. I cannot say for sure but I would assume the school borders would remain what they are unless explicitly changed by the state legislature. The mayor would have control over the CMSD but not the ECCSD, even though the ECCSD lies in the city of Cleveland. Those who live in the ECCSD borders would vote on and pay separate tax levies for schools.

^School district boundaries are determined by the state school board.

 

In the 1950's, state law was changed to end the automatic transfer of school districts when municipal annexation occurs.

As we've debated over and over again, I vehemently oppose giving the "good" parts of East Cleveland to Cleveland Heights. As a Cleveland resident, I strongly support the merger but would just as strongly oppose it if we don't get ALL of it. All or nothing.

 

Second, as a poster just reiterated, school districts are completely different entities. The school district would stay independent even with a city merger

 

 

First off, as a Cleveland resident, there isn't that much meat on the bone, so enjoy.

 

Second, I fully understand that school districts and municipalities are separate entities. However, as a Cleveland resident, you should know that CMSD is not separate from the city, it is under mayoral control. That is why the question is one to consider.

Yep, because the residents of this area (of CH) would not be involved in electing Mayor Jackson.  Shaker Square people vote in SHCSD elections, not CMSD.

 

 

And if there isn't any meat on the bone, then why do you want any of it? (Great way to view people btw)

gusi

 

I'll say it because the OP may find it impolite to:  we all understood what he meant and this group has way too high of an intelligence level to linguistically nitpick to this degree....

Wrong again. In the state of Ohio, school districts are COMPLETELY separate legal entities. CMSD a being under mayoral control has NOTHING to do with it because the East Cleveland School District is a separate legal entity from the CMSD. That would have to be explicitly agreed upon to merge in order for it to happen. I don't understand what's so hard to see here. The East Cleveland School District exists whether there is an East Cleveland or not. The only thing that would merge the two is an explicit merger. This is pretty clear

 

Per Wikipedia:

 

CMSD is the only district in Ohio that is under direct control of the mayor, who appoints a school board.[...]The school board appoints a chief executive officer, the equivalent of a district superintendent, who is responsible for district management.

 

 

So again, while what you're saying is technically true, until the question is definitively answered I think it's worth the discussion because EC would fall under the mayor's jurisdiction.

And if there isn't any meat on the bone, then why do you want any of it? (Great way to view people btw)

 

Because Cleveland has enough territory to manage that it has neglected. It doesn't need any more. Cleveland Heights is better off taking control of the area exploiting the natural buffer between itself and Cleveland.

 

And when I say "meat on the bone," why do you jump to the conclusion that I'm talking about "people"? Maybe you're the one with his mind in the wrong place? Regardless, the point remains that the area itself has a decent park with a lot of potential, a few blocks of nice (but not spectacular) homes, main roads that are in pretty bad shape, and a large number of blocks of deteriorating homes and apartment complexes.

I would trust CH to bring out the best in Forest Hills more than Cleveland. I also suspect the residents of that area have a much stronger connection to CH.  But I love the idea mentioned above of giving the park itself to the Metroparks.

 

Yep, because the residents of this area (of CH) would not be involved in electing Mayor Jackson.  Shaker Square people vote in SHCSD elections, not CMSD.

 

 

The whole setup is a mess and IMO borderline unconstitutional because then you have the residents of Bratenahl and Newburgh Heights. They don't get to vote for Mayor of Cleveland but are forced to deal with the consequences of whatever school decisions he makes regarding the choosing of the school board and CEO. This is what a small section of Cleveland Heights would be looking at were it ever to be pulled into CMSD.

I would trust CH to bring out the best in Forest Hills more than Cleveland. I also suspect the residents of that area have a much stronger connection to CH.  But I love the idea mentioned above of giving the park itself to the Metroparks.

 

I think that Forest Park going to the MetroParks would be the best possible outcome if Cleveland and all of East Cleveland merge. I seem to remember it was Cleveland's mismanagement of the beaches it ran that lead to the MetroParks coming in and really improving things drastically. I certainly doubt the EC portion of Forest Hill would benefit from moving under Cleveland's jurisdiction.

 

In regards to your second point about the residents in that area, maybe they should have a say in what they want to happen with their neighborhood? Maybe before any of this full-scale merger momentum moves forward any further they should start talking to CH about a possible annexation?

^ The beaches were (mis)managed by the State prior to Metropark's takeover.

^ The beaches were (mis)managed by the State prior to Metropark's takeover.

 

I stand corrected.

 

What is Cleveland's current largest park? With Forest Hill, they'd be getting over 160 acres.

^ Rockefeller Park, I believe, with over 200 acres

Although the beaches were owned by the State, wasn't it the City's duty to manage/maintain them?

Although the beaches were owned by the State, wasn't it the City's duty to manage/maintain them?

 

No, the city still owned the lakefront parks, but they were leased to the state. The state was responsible for managing and maintaining them.

 

Back to topic?

Wrong again. In the state of Ohio, school districts are COMPLETELY separate legal entities. CMSD a being under mayoral control has NOTHING to do with it because the East Cleveland School District is a separate legal entity from the CMSD. That would have to be explicitly agreed upon to merge in order for it to happen. I don't understand what's so hard to see here. The East Cleveland School District exists whether there is an East Cleveland or not. The only thing that would merge the two is an explicit merger. This is pretty clear

 

Per Wikipedia:

 

CMSD is the only district in Ohio that is under direct control of the mayor, who appoints a school board.[...]The school board appoints a chief executive officer, the equivalent of a district superintendent, who is responsible for district management.

 

 

So again, while what you're saying is technically true, until the question is definitively answered I think it's worth the discussion because EC would fall under the mayor's jurisdiction.

 

What I said is not "technically" true. It is LITERALLY true. I refer you to the state law that I posted VERBATIM a just a few posts above this one. East Cleveland is proposing this merger as a merger of the two municipalities ONLY. In order for the school districts to merge they would have to propose a merger of the school districts and the people would have to vote on it. Period. It's that simple. Mayoral control of CMSD has nothing to do with anything, regardless of how much u continue to bring it up

Wrong again. In the state of Ohio, school districts are COMPLETELY separate legal entities. CMSD a being under mayoral control has NOTHING to do with it because the East Cleveland School District is a separate legal entity from the CMSD. That would have to be explicitly agreed upon to merge in order for it to happen. I don't understand what's so hard to see here. The East Cleveland School District exists whether there is an East Cleveland or not. The only thing that would merge the two is an explicit merger. This is pretty clear

 

Per Wikipedia:

 

CMSD is the only district in Ohio that is under direct control of the mayor, who appoints a school board.[...]The school board appoints a chief executive officer, the equivalent of a district superintendent, who is responsible for district management.

 

 

So again, while what you're saying is technically true, until the question is definitively answered I think it's worth the discussion because EC would fall under the mayor's jurisdiction.

 

I'll post it again (even though I know you saw it because you responded to the comment I made above it)

 

"The ordinance provided for in section 709.23 of the Revised Code, or the petition provided for in section 709.24 of the Revised Code, shall specify whether annexation is desired for corporate municipal purposes only, or for such purposes and for school purposes. In case annexation is desired both for corporate municipal purposes and for school purposes, such questions shall be submitted separately, but may be printed upon the same ballot. The legislative authorities in both municipal corporations in such case shall certify a copy of such ordinance or petition to the board of education of their respective municipal corporations, each of which shall, within thirty days, appoint three commissioners who shall meet forthwith and, within fifteen days, negotiate the terms of annexation for school purposes and certify such terms to their respective boards of education. Such boards shall, by resolution, submit the question of annexing such school district in the manner provided by law.

 

Such question as to annexation for school purposes shall be submitted to the electors of the respective school districts in which such municipal corporations are situated, irrespective of deviations of school district boundaries from those of the affected municipal corporations."

 

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/709.25

 

Case closed

Fine, you're right about what would legally happen after a merger between Cleveland and East Cleveland. (Although it's clear that the City of Cleveland and CMSD are intertwined in a manner that is unique in the State of Ohio, a point which you seem unable to concede or accept as being relevant.)

 

But, let's do it this way:

 

In your opinion, taking everything into consideration, what is the probability that if/when Cleveland and East Cleveland merge, that a merger of the two school districts follows within a short period (say 3-5 years) after?

 

Do you really believe that the case will truly be closed and the issue won't be broached?

Fine, you're right about what would legally happen after a merger between Cleveland and East Cleveland. (Although it's clear that the City of Cleveland and CMSD are intertwined in a manner that is unique in the State of Ohio, a point which you seem unable to concede or accept as being relevant.)

 

But, let's do it this way:

 

In your opinion, taking everything into consideration, what is the probability that if/when Cleveland and East Cleveland merge, that a merger of the two school districts follows within a short period (say 3-5 years) after?

 

Do you really believe that the case will truly be closed and the issue won't be broached?

 

Let's try this again. It's irrelevant because ITS IRRELEVANT. CMSD and the East Cleveland School District are two separate legal entities. Period. It does not matter if the mayor, you or Donald Duck is charge of CMSD. It's irrelevant because they are separate entities and they will continue to be even when East Cleveland is annexed because THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO MERGE A SCHOOL DISTRICT. That is, as the state law that I've now posted and referred to for the fourth time now, to gather enough signatures to petition a merger of the school districts, get those signatures certified by the BOE and so on and so on until it is posed to the people affected in a vote (which, in this case, would be Cleveland and the former East Cleveland) and they have to approve it. I don't understand what isn't clear about this. I know you want to make this a problem but the law is clear and unambiguous. You can keep shadow boxing with an issue that does not exist if you so choose but the FACTS are clear. The ONLY way two school districts can be merged is to go through the exact same process that exists to merge a city. Period. Point blank. End of story. East Cleveland is proposing a merger of the cities only, not the school districts. The mayor cannot declare by fiat that he runs the East Cleveland Schools regardless of if the city becomes part of Cleveland or not. It is a separate entity and will remain so until the exact same process that merged the two cities is started again from the beginning to merge the school districts. PERIOD.

 

To your other question/point: the few pockets of opposition to the merger in East Cleveland mainly is about them losing their identity and local control. If you listen to them, that's what they say. I believe that attempting a merger of the schools and the cities (a separate process, according to state law that I've now referred to for the fifth time) would've made a merger even more difficult politically and would make it likely that the EC residents would vote one down. So I don't see a merger of the schools happening any time soon unless the East Cleveland School District goes broke and has no choice. The residents there didn't even want to merge the library with Cuyahoga County when they knew it was bleeding money because of their fierce independence. (I know that for a fact because a wing of the library is named for a friend of mine who was murdered in East Cleveland. The people at the dedication ceremony made it clear to let it be known that they can do stuff like that because of their independence). The only reason the voters are likely to approve a merger of the cities is because they widely understand that there are no other options. Adding anything else to the equation would make this process even more complicated. I know East Cleveland people. They're very proud of their identity and fiercely independent. I don't see the school districts merging for a very long time, if ever, unless they absolutely have to.

 

Not to mention that Cleveland residents would likely oppose adding even more low performing schools to the district

And I saw someone mention the Shaker Square situation comparably:

 

"Why is Shaker Square in the Shaker Heights School District?

 

The story is not yet clear. Some published accounts may be incorrect. Old maps suggest that the Shaker Square neighborhood was never in Shaker Heights, but rather in Newburgh, which was annexed to Cleveland around the time Shaker Heights was carved out of Warrensville Township.

 

One old news account, from the September 5, 1912 Plain Dealer, tells of an exchange of land. Not from city to city (Shaker Heights to Cleveland), but between school boards: from the area served by the Cleveland City School District to the Shaker Heights School District. Here's the story link.

 

Such a "swap" would serve the interests of both communities. Shaker Heights wanted more students (and more taxes) to support a new school. Cleveland city officials and judges were glad to create an area where they could live in the city and still hold office, yet have their children educated with those of the city's elite who were moving to Shaker Heights."

 

http://shakersquare.net/history/index.htm

 

The referenced articles: http://www.shakersquare.net/history/square-shaker-schools-more.htm

It's worth noting that there are only two districts in the state that receive more funding from the state that ECCSD:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/07/rocky_river_independence_schoo_1.html

 

I wouldn't exactly call that a pillar of stability. Once these two cities become one, anything is possible with Columbus calling the shots and state funding being so fickle. I'll bet a school district merger isn't that far behind regardless of what the residents may want.

Another nitpick -- The city of Cleveland doesn't run neighborhoods. The CDCs do. They're the reason why some once-troubled neighborhoods are booming with development (Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, etc) while other neighborhoods with lots of potential have had difficulty putting things together. The CDCs have hired their own security patrols, garbage/graffiti clean-up, building code enforcement, low-income residential subsidies, business development assistance, development project review, etc). CDCs are neighborhood-level city halls that have anywhere from several full-time staff persons to more than a few dozen, overseen by a board of trustees, with the city councilman having the power of the purse over them as he/she directs funds from Cleveland City Hall.

 

It is highly likely that if East Cleveland is merged into Cleveland, that East Cleveland will be run by a CDC. It certainly doesn't guarantee success for East Cleveland. But it will give it local oversight, coordination with development efforts in neighboring areas like University Circle, probably more stability and potentially more access to funding.

Another nitpick -- The city of Cleveland doesn't run neighborhoods. The CDCs do. They're the reason why some once-troubled neighborhoods are booming with development (Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, etc) while other neighborhoods with lots of potential have had difficulty putting things together. The CDCs have hired their own security patrols, garbage/graffiti clean-up, building code enforcement, low-income residential subsidies, business development assistance, development project review, etc). CDCs are neighborhood-level city halls that have anywhere from several full-time staff persons to more than a few dozen, overseen by a board of trustees, with the city councilman having the power of the purse over them as he/she directs funds from Cleveland City Hall.

 

It is highly likely that if East Cleveland is merged into Cleveland, that East Cleveland will be run by a CDC. It certainly doesn't guarantee success for East Cleveland. But it will give it local oversight, coordination with development efforts in neighboring areas like University Circle, probably more stability and potentially more access to funding.

 

True.  This is why I sometimes think that Cleveland might be better off as several separate municipalities, as opposed to the normally proposed regional model.

Indeed, you might get some of the suburbs to buy off on a stronger county government if this was the case. 

 

True.  This is why I sometimes think that Cleveland might be better off as several separate municipalities, as opposed to the normally proposed regional model.

Indeed, you might get some of the suburbs to buy off on a stronger county government if this was the case.

 

Ask Hampton Roads, VA how well that works.  If you think Cuyahoga County/NEO is a balkanized morass now, can you imagine what it would be like if there were no single leader municipality, and you literally had the West Side competing with the East Side?

True.  This is why I sometimes think that Cleveland might be better off as several separate municipalities, as opposed to the normally proposed regional model.

Indeed, you might get some of the suburbs to buy off on a stronger county government if this was the case.

 

Ask Hampton Roads, VA how well that works.  If you think Cuyahoga County/NEO is a balkanized morass now, can you imagine what it would be like if there were no single leader municipality, and you literally had the West Side competing with the East Side?

 

It would be a complete and utter DISASTER

Another nitpick -- The city of Cleveland doesn't run neighborhoods. The CDCs do. They're the reason why some once-troubled neighborhoods are booming with development (Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, etc) while other neighborhoods with lots of potential have had difficulty putting things together. The CDCs have hired their own security patrols, garbage/graffiti clean-up, building code enforcement, low-income residential subsidies, business development assistance, development project review, etc). CDCs are neighborhood-level city halls that have anywhere from several full-time staff persons to more than a few dozen, overseen by a board of trustees, with the city councilman having the power of the purse over them as he/she directs funds from Cleveland City Hall.

 

It is highly likely that if East Cleveland is merged into Cleveland, that East Cleveland will be run by a CDC. It certainly doesn't guarantee success for East Cleveland. But it will give it local oversight, coordination with development efforts in neighboring areas like University Circle, probably more stability and potentially more access to funding.

 

To play devil's advocate here, East Cleveland as an independent municipality already has a higher level of self-governance than what a CDC can offer. Are they giving that up for increased finances from the central city? Is CDC money distributed evenly, or is it based on how well neighborhood advocates fight for funding?

 

It may not be true, but it does feel like Cleveland City Hall has picked winners and losers in recent years with the way money is distributed to some neighborhoods over others. Maybe that's just a result of certain CDCs being stronger than others. If that's the case, EC better have some strong advocates ready for fight for the "neighborhood" or nothing will change.

True.  This is why I sometimes think that Cleveland might be better off as several separate municipalities, as opposed to the normally proposed regional model.

Indeed, you might get some of the suburbs to buy off on a stronger county government if this was the case. 

 

 

I don't know if that makes sense, but I have long thought that splitting CMSD up into several pieces would go a long ways towards helping to manage it.

hampton roads, the biggest metro area no one's ever heard of

 

regarding school district consolidation in NE OH, say goodbye to ledgemont, as it merges with berkshire this upcoming academic year

 

http://www.geaugamapleleaf.com/news/its-official-berkshire-ledgemont-becoming-one/

 

this reduces the income tax paid by former ledgemont district residents

 

http://www.berkshireschools.org/vimages/shared/vnews/stories/54bfcc8e50c5f/income%20tax%20change.pdf

 

#winning

Another nitpick -- The city of Cleveland doesn't run neighborhoods. The CDCs do. They're the reason why some once-troubled neighborhoods are booming with development (Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, etc) while other neighborhoods with lots of potential have had difficulty putting things together. The CDCs have hired their own security patrols, garbage/graffiti clean-up, building code enforcement, low-income residential subsidies, business development assistance, development project review, etc). CDCs are neighborhood-level city halls that have anywhere from several full-time staff persons to more than a few dozen, overseen by a board of trustees, with the city councilman having the power of the purse over them as he/she directs funds from Cleveland City Hall.

 

It is highly likely that if East Cleveland is merged into Cleveland, that East Cleveland will be run by a CDC. It certainly doesn't guarantee success for East Cleveland. But it will give it local oversight, coordination with development efforts in neighboring areas like University Circle, probably more stability and potentially more access to funding.

 

To play devil's advocate here, East Cleveland as an independent municipality already has a higher level of self-governance than what a CDC can offer. Are they giving that up for increased finances from the central city? Is CDC money distributed evenly, or is it based on how well neighborhood advocates fight for funding?

 

It may not be true, but it does feel like Cleveland City Hall has picked winners and losers in recent years with the way money is distributed to some neighborhoods over others. Maybe that's just a result of certain CDCs being stronger than others. If that's the case, EC better have some strong advocates ready for fight for the "neighborhood" or nothing will change.

 

Note I said "sometimes", and yes I see the potential drawbacks.  But yes, the CDC game is all politics and that entrenches incumbent councilmen.  A neighborhood with a poliltically strong councilman will do better, especially if they are a decent administrator.  They are kind of halfway separate cities already, and this does more good than harm.  Most of the time.

I now live in Norfolk, VA which is the historic large city of Hampton Roads. However, the region is made up of 8 separate and independent cities (Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Portmouth, Hampton, Newport News, Poquoson, and Williamsburg), plus 5 separate counties (cities are independent of counties here). So working at the MPO is a challenge because you have to coordinate between 13 separate jurisdictions, not to mention the smaller towns in each of the counties. Regional cooperation is a distinct challenge, not just because of political, social, and economic differences among the jurisdictions, but also due to the presence of numerous large bodies of water that create physical and psychological barriers.

In this week’s #Insight video: @CleCityCouncil pres. @kevinkelleyCLE talks proposed #CLE-East Cleveland merger http://t.co/YM4kFa6ioj

More reasons to combine these bloated burgs....

 

Parma cuts clothing allowance, sick-time cash out for City Hall employees in 2016

 

PARMA, Ohio -- The city of Parma will save about $79,500 this year by cutting the clothing allowance for about 175 City Hall employees. The same employees will not receive raises this year or be permitted to trade unused sick leave for cash, under the same contract.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2016/01/parma_cuts_clothing_allowance.html#incart_m-rpt-1

More reasons to combine these bloated burgs....

The fact that they're being asked to give up benefits the private sector rarely sees?

 

Seriously, the forcible merging of suburban entities is about as far away from politically possible as can be imagined at this time.

 

Sharing services, on the other hand, is not only on the table but happens regularly in places where it might not be expected.

I agree that mergers are politically not feasible right now.  It's a shame though, because these borders result in high tax burdens and a bad business climate.

I agree that mergers are politically not feasible right now.  It's a shame though, because these borders result in high tax burdens and a bad business climate.

 

Or anytime in the foreseeable future, I would say.

 

Those results aren't necessarily inherent, though I agree they are often the case.

More reasons to combine these bloated burgs....

 

Parma cuts clothing allowance, sick-time cash out for City Hall employees in 2016

 

PARMA, Ohio -- The city of Parma will save about $79,500 this year by cutting the clothing allowance for about 175 City Hall employees. The same employees will not receive raises this year or be permitted to trade unused sick leave for cash, under the same contract.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2016/01/parma_cuts_clothing_allowance.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

I want Parma to consolidate but not quite sure why it's "bloated". If it were to absorb Parma Heights and Seven Hills it would have a population at 110k. Parma would have 1/4 the population of Cleveland and come within 80k of Akron. I think the East Side burbs have more to go in terms of consolidation. What's the purpose of having Walton or Moreland Hills?

More reasons to combine these bloated burgs....

 

Parma cuts clothing allowance, sick-time cash out for City Hall employees in 2016

 

PARMA, Ohio -- The city of Parma will save about $79,500 this year by cutting the clothing allowance for about 175 City Hall employees. The same employees will not receive raises this year or be permitted to trade unused sick leave for cash, under the same contract.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2016/01/parma_cuts_clothing_allowance.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

I want Parma to consolidate but not quite sure why it's "bloated". If it were to absorb Parma Heights and Seven Hills it would have a population at 110k. Parma would have 1/4 the population of Cleveland and come within 80k of Akron. I think the East Side burbs have more to go in terms of consolidation. What's the purpose of having Walton or Moreland Hills?

 

Walton Hills is indeed quite different from its colleagues in the Bedford City School District so its residents would insist there's quite a bit of purpose.  It would have more in common with the Nordonia burbs or perhaps Valley View, but there's no real benefit for either side there. 

 

As it stands, WH is actually somewhat of a good actor vis a vis regionalization.  It does not have its own fire department, it shares with Oakwood and Glenwillow.  It used to use the Maple Heights Building Department rather than its own, but there was too much inefficiency (and rumored corruption) there so it hired an inspector of its own.

I want Parma to consolidate but not quite sure why it's "bloated". If it were to absorb Parma Heights and Seven Hills it would have a population at 110k. Parma would have 1/4 the population of Cleveland and come within 80k of Akron. I think the East Side burbs have more to go in terms of consolidation. What's the purpose of having Walton or Moreland Hills?

 

By "bloated" I meant the payroll....not population, other than most of them probably have the same or more working for them with less residents to serve.

I want Parma to consolidate but not quite sure why it's "bloated". If it were to absorb Parma Heights and Seven Hills it would have a population at 110k. Parma would have 1/4 the population of Cleveland and come within 80k of Akron. I think the East Side burbs have more to go in terms of consolidation. What's the purpose of having Walton or Moreland Hills?

 

By "bloated" I meant the payroll....not population, other than most of them probably have the same or more working for them with less residents to serve.

 

Ha...well if you're talking about payroll I guess we should start with Cleveland. ;) In fairness I know the city has done a better job with the budget in recent years.

 

I currently live in Fairfax County, Virginia which is a "consolidated" district of over 1 million people. Trust me, none of the Cleveland burbs have "more" working for them splitting resources the way they do.

The benefit from mergers, which you don't get from sharing services, is having one regime and one regulatory structure cover a large geographical area.  Cannot overstate how big that is for business.