(Sun. 3-7-21)

 

 

 

 

Now it feels REALLY empty without anything north of the stadium

 

Can’t say I love the look of the north coast harbor bridge, but it should be done this summer. So that’s good.

Hopefully the bridge will look better when completed.

I can't believe this bridge was ever approved. It is even worse than the renderings.  At this point I would prefer it dismantled and The North Coast Harbor open 

All the additional crossmember steel on the canopy was never shown in the rendering. This makes the bridge even bulkier.

Edited March 12, 20214 yr by dave2017

it already looks like its fallen into disrepair 

It's in the middle of construction, so clearly it hasn't fallen into disrepair.  It would be nice if people waited until it was finished to start complaining about it - then have at it!  I'm happy to have a bridge completing the circle even if it isn't a sexy bridge.

3 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

It's in the middle of construction, so clearly it hasn't fallen into disrepair.  It would be nice if people waited until it was finished to start complaining about it - then have at it!  I'm happy to have a bridge completing the circle even if it isn't a sexy bridge.

 

Seriously.  Ya'll need to chill!  Let them finish it.

 

20 hours ago, dave2017 said:

I don't believe this bridge was ever approved. It is even worse than the renderings.  At this point I would prefer it dismantled and The North Coast Harbor open 

All the additional crossmember steel on the canopy was never shown in the rendering. This makes the bridge even bulkier.

 

Engineer > Architect

12 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

It's in the middle of construction, so clearly it hasn't fallen into disrepair.  It would be nice if people waited until it was finished to start complaining about it - then have at it!  I'm happy to have a bridge completing the circle even if it isn't a sexy bridge.

Who is in charge of maintenance?   Port Authority?  

^I'd say the city. The Port Authority doesn't control/maintain any of the bridges across the cuyahoga---the owner does---so for all the lower level bridges, its the city or a railroad. For the high-level bridges (non-movable) its also the owner--so the city, county, or state (in the case of the Innerbelt bridge).  I realize the water in this location isn't the Cuyahoga, but the same principle should apply.

15 hours ago, Hootenany said:

Engineer > Architect

I do believe it's a requirement for my PE to continue to taking an Architects pretty picture and ruin it with a real world design. Us engineers love to turn fancy buildings into plain ole' rectangles.

10 hours ago, Pugu said:

^I'd say the city. The Port Authority doesn't control/maintain any of the bridges across the cuyahoga---the owner does---so for all the lower level bridges, its the city or a railroad. For the high-level bridges (non-movable) its also the owner--so the city, county, or state (in the case of the Innerbelt bridge).  I realize the water in this location isn't the Cuyahoga, but the same principle should apply.

I wonder how long the Goodtime will last inside the bridge?  The first time the bridge gets stuck down on a Saturday morning and the city won't show up until lunchtime on Monday to fix it, they may not want to risk cancelling any further sailings.   File under "I hope I'm wrong..." 

30 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I wonder how long the Goodtime will last inside the bridge?  The first time the bridge gets stuck down on a Saturday morning and the city won't show up until lunchtime on Monday to fix it, they may not want to risk cancelling any further sailings.   File under "I hope I'm wrong..." 

 

How often do the bridges fail? I've never experienced any failures on the cuyahoga crossings. Of course, there's a big difference here---the Cuyahoga is federal channel and access must be 24/7---so all the bridges are staffed 24/7. this entry in the harbor at Voinovich Park is purely recreational is not part of the harbor's federal navigational system. But even so, I would hope is staffed 24/7.

Besides, the Goodtime docks at the northeast corner of East 9th Street pier.

^Ah, yes, that's true!

9 hours ago, KJP said:

Besides, the Goodtime docks at the northeast corner of East 9th Street pier.

You know you're right.  I believe it just winters inside the harbor.   

For those of you who don't follow Columbus development, there is a proposal by the Columbus Crew soccer team and the Haslams for a neighborhood called Astor Park which will be completely built around the new Crew soccer stadium in the Arena District.

 

It's a really nice plan and perhaps a template of what the Haslam's could do with the land surrounding First Energy Stadium.  I recommend clicking on the below bold type "Columbus: Downtown: Columbus Crew Stadium/Astor Park" and it will take you to the renderings.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, KJP said:

 

I love riding my bike down this way. This idea would be incredible for the area if implemented.

Curious what they have in mind for those "Greenways", and how substantial they would be.  

On 3/19/2021 at 9:07 AM, downtownjoe said:

I love riding my bike down this way. This idea would be incredible for the area if implemented.

Is this the CHEERS project/study?  Or the Cuyahoga County Planning Commission plan?  Or are they essentially one in the same?  I've been around long enough that it seems that I've seen "any number" of lakefront plans and it's my greatest frustration, in terms of Cleveland development, that we're now 21 years into the 21st century and we're still developing a vision for the lakefront, rather than experiencing it - or at least, building it.  I saw the CHEERS (Cleveland Harbor Eastern Embayment Resilience Study!)  group's last virtual meeting and I applaud their enthusiastic members in trying to push forward some creative possibilities.  But the timelines from that particular group are extremely vague and  "long term" into the future, by their own description.   

 

I happened to tune into WTAM via IHEART Radio this morning to hear the host commenting on the "gold mine" that could be developed along the area currently held by Burke Lake Front Airport.  I don't find myself agreeing with that host frequently, but in this case, I was buying in.   I know that Burke has been a push-button dividing issue on the Forum for a long time.   But  when you consider that Cleveland has that most precious  commodity that urban centers desire  - a true waterfront coastline at its downtown's front steps -  but one that is also simply "off the table" for development for generations of future Clevelanders - it can be a devastating realization.  

 

I'm hopeful that at least the area north of Cleveland Browns stadium is in play for shoreline development - and perhaps the complete parcel if a new stadium is located elsewhere downtown.  But when I think of the percentage of people I know that have ever used Burke compared to the vast numbers that could benefit from a potential residential, shopping, hotel, entertainment, restaurant  experience on the northern coastline -  a  short walk from Cleveland's downtown core district - it's  a powerful possible future scenario - though I realize, still in the realm of "fantasy". 

 

While the current talk of "moving the highway" and the visions for an east side lakefront experience  are exciting -  I wish there was a clarion call for a new vision that included the downtown lakefront - particularly the Burke land.   I'm not hoping to reignite the old debate about the airport's vital role at its current location - I know  Forum members have litigated both sides of this old topic previously.   Still, for those that can imagine a thriving waterfront community  as part of Cleveland's "downtown" - it's an enticing vision.  I think it's the biggest possible game changer in the trajectory of the city's future.  

27 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Is this the CHEERS project/study?  Or the Cuyahoga County Planning Commission plan?  Or are they essentially one in the same?  I've been around long enough that it seems that I've seen "any number" of lakefront plans and it's my greatest frustration, in terms of Cleveland development, that we're now 21 years into the 21st century and we're still developing a vision for the lakefront, rather than experiencing it - or at least, building it.  I saw the CHEERS (Cleveland Harbor Eastern Embayment Resilience Study!)  group's last virtual meeting and I applaud their enthusiastic members in trying to push forward some creative possibilities.  But the timelines from that particular group are extremely vague and  "long term" into the future, by their own description.   

 

I happened to tune into WTAM via IHEART Radio this morning to hear the host commenting on the "gold mine" that could be developed along the area currently held by Burke Lake Front Airport.  I don't find myself agreeing with that host frequently, but in this case, I was buying in.   I know that Burke has been a push-button dividing issue on the Forum for a long time.   But  when you consider that Cleveland has that most precious  commodity that urban centers desire  - a true waterfront coastline at its downtown's front steps -  but one that is also simply "off the table" for development for generations of future Clevelanders - it can be a devastating realization.  

 

I'm hopeful that at least the area north of Cleveland Browns stadium is in play for shoreline development - and perhaps the complete parcel if a new stadium is located elsewhere downtown.  But when I think of the percentage of people I know that have ever used Burke compared to the vast numbers that could benefit from a potential residential, shopping, hotel, entertainment, restaurant  experience on the northern coastline -  a  short walk from Cleveland's downtown core district - it's  a powerful possible future scenario - though I realize, still in the realm of "fantasy". 

 

While the current talk of "moving the highway" and the visions for an east side lakefront experience  are exciting -  I wish there was a clarion call for a new vision that included the downtown lakefront - particularly the Burke land.   I'm not hoping to reignite the old debate about the airport's vital role at its current location - I know  Forum members have litigated both sides of this old topic previously.   Still, for those that can imagine a thriving waterfront community  as part of Cleveland's "downtown" - it's an enticing vision.  I think it's the biggest possible game changer in the trajectory of the city's future.  

Putting aside the huge issues the city would have with the feds by closing Burke (along with millions of dollars the city would have to give back) and putting aside the fact that Burke is on a landfill, the fact that there’s so much underutilized land outside of Burke on the lakefront I don’t understand the obsession with closing Burke. Can we develop the available land first?

The Burke discussion goes in circles ad nauseum.  It has it's own thread.  Do not bring it up here anymore.

I don’t k ow why I was expecting something awesome, but here is our normal wasted opportunity. Why have it on the lakefront if you build it like this? Completely missed on a chance to integrate the Mather into the design which would’ve been cool optics... smh 

Other than drone shots for TV, will you even be able to see the lake with a setup like that? Looks like the the infrastructure will block any views for the people actually there, on the ground. 

18 minutes ago, viscomi said:

Other than drone shots for TV, will you even be able to see the lake with a setup like that? Looks like the the infrastructure will block any views for the people actually there, on the ground. 

My thoughts exactly, of course it may be intentional due to potential cold lake breeze, but it also didn’t have to be held there. Those renderings sure make the freeway/railway gap look small, visitors from out of town will be like, wait how do I get to the venue?  Regardless very happy it’s happening and I’m sure it will end up looking cool on TV. Hopefully they get footage of the new harbor bridge.... 

I assume location was selected due to its proximity to First Energy Stadium.  Lake temp will be about 45 degrees, so hopefully they have a lot of heaters near the stage.

 

Edited March 22, 20214 yr by skiwest

18 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I assume location was selected due to its proximity to First Energy Stadium.  Lake temp will be about 45 degrees, so hopefully they have a lot of heaters near the stage.

 

 

Valid point. ya 45, 50 max at the beginning of May and you can't count on an offshore flow.

Edited March 22, 20214 yr by viscomi

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

I assume location was selected due to its proximity to First Energy Stadium.  Lake temp will be about 45 degrees, so hopefully they have a lot of heaters near the stage.

 

 

It's not that bad out there today! Just got back from a run along the lake and most of us were out there in shorts and tees.

 

The location will be fine.

Edited March 22, 20214 yr by Clefan98

17 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

It's not that bad out there today! Just got back from a run along the lake and most of us were out there in shorts and tees.

 

The location will be fine.

 

Unfortunately the NFL draft is not today.   It could just as easily be 25 degrees and wind blowing 40 mph!  Hoping for the best though!  

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Unfortunately the NFL draft is not today.   It could just as easily be 25 degrees and wind blowing 40 mph!  Hoping for the best though!  

 

May 1st avg temp Cleveland:

 

Daily high temperatures increase by 10°F, from 63°F to 73°F, rarely falling below 50°F or exceeding 85°F.

 

Edited March 22, 20214 yr by Clefan98

3 hours ago, Taller_is_better said:

I don’t k ow why I was expecting something awesome, but here is our normal wasted opportunity. Why have it on the lakefront if you build it like this? Completely missed on a chance to integrate the Mather into the design which would’ve been cool optics... smh 

Whoever made those renderings REALLY likes the Keith building. It has a new home just to the right of Public Auditorium and appears in the second image in at least four different places. Love it!

 

I think football fans know how to dress for the weather....   

24 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

May 1st avg temp Cleveland:

 

Daily high temperatures increase by 10°F, from 63°F to 73°F, rarely falling below 50°F or exceeding 85°F.

 

 

May 1 record low temperature is 28.   The average temp of Lake Erie off Cleveland is 47F.   Anything can happen in Cleveland weather.  

2 hours ago, skiwest said:

I assume location was selected due to its proximity to First Energy Stadium.  Lake temp will be about 45 degrees, so hopefully they have a lot of heaters near the stage.

 

 

I was actually fortunate enough to see renderings "from the stage" looking Downtown... and it's an incredibly great pano angle of the skyline

5 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

May 1 record low temperature is 28.   The average temp of Lake Erie off Cleveland is 47F.   Anything can happen in Cleveland weather.  

 

Anything can happen but the temps will most likely be between 63-73.

3 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Anything can happen but the temps will most likely be between 63-73.

 

From your keyboard to God's forecast!  Go Browns!  

Vast open windy space, nationally televised, mass gathering event during a contagion pandemic. Covid Precautions are clearly front and center in the 2021 Draft Layout and Setup. Unfortunately that all results in nothing spectacular.

May 1st is always a FABULOUS* day, thankyouverymuch. This year I’ll be spending it celebrating my last year in my 40s. 😁

 

*Where do you think I got my screen name?

 

updated photos of the pedestrian bridge at North Coast Harbor

Edited March 27, 20214 yr by dave2017

On 3/22/2021 at 10:01 AM, Taller_is_better said:

I don’t k ow why I was expecting something awesome, but here is our normal wasted opportunity. Why have it on the lakefront if you build it like this? Completely missed on a chance to integrate the Mather into the design which would’ve been cool optics... smh 

 

Wow that Medical Mart... er Global Center for Health Innovation Center sure has changed... 

And they managed to move the Keith Building.  Awesome.

Yeah, very strange. Good catches. There's some kind of monolith too covering E 6th Street just below & between The Keith & Public Hall.  What's that for?  - It's like a "picture find" in the back of Highlights Magazine.

This isn't just an image with errors, it's a published lie.

  - Too weird!

City of Cleveland reveals first glimpse of its new lakefront ‘land bridge’ concept in application for state money

Steven Litt -Cleveland.com - Apr. 12, 2021

 

 

"In a nod to nostalgia, the City of Cleveland is proposing to recreate, at least in part, a pedestrian bridge that connected the downtown Malls to the Lake Erie lakefront during the 1936-37 Great Lakes Exposition. The city has applied to the State of Ohio for $6.5 million to design the “land bridge” from Mall C to North Coast Harbor on the waterfront, spanning the Ohio 2 Shoreway and lakefront railroad lines. ... The project could ultimately carry a cost of $229 million, the city’s application said. ... The document also said the project would improve access to the city’s Amtrak station, an aging structure built in the 1970s. The project could involve consolidation of what the city called two “underutilized’' Waterfront Line stations of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. ... The city’s application contains the first publicly released version of a rough design for the bridge, showing it would extend straight north from Mall C, the grassy plaza between City Hall and the old Cuyahoga County Courthouse."

Holy cow is this really happening?!??!: City of Cleveland reveals first glimpse of its new lakefront ‘land bridge’ concept in application for state money

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/04/city-of-cleveland-reveals-first-glimpse-of-its-new-lakefront-land-bridge-concept-in-application-for-state-money.html

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — In a nod to nostalgia, the City of Cleveland is proposing to recreate, at least in part, a pedestrian bridge that connected the downtown Malls to the Lake Erie lakefront during the 1936-37 Great Lakes Exposition.

The city has applied to the State of Ohio for $6.5 million to design a the “land bridge” from Mall C to North Coast Harbor on the waterfront, spanning the Ohio 2 Shoreway and lakefront railroad lines.

 

Article also references better Amtrak access and consolidating the two Waterfront Line stations.

 

This first image is the rough design of the new concept.  The other images are previous proposals.

 

From the 2019 Green Ribbon Coalition proposal:

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the NOACA Planning and Programing Committee - TARC Project Priorities List:

 

From the 2021 TRAC Applications - Pedestrian connection/structure to the Lakefront:

 

 

I have lots of hats.  I will eat all of them the day the State of Ohio gives the city of Cleveland $200 million for the construction of a land bridge.  I hope the city has other funding ideas.

15 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I have lots of hats.  I will eat all of them the day the State of Ohio gives the city of Cleveland $200 million for the construction of a land bridge.  I hope the city has other funding ideas.

They’ll probably be able to get a few million from a state capital budget...but from TRAC? No way. It’s basically a roadway widening money funnel. 

Maybe they could get some federal funding from the $2 trillion+ infrastructure plan.

Yes, it could be funded by a variety of sources including the proposed infrastructure plan whether Amtrak's Cleveland station stays on the lakefront or not.

46 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Maybe they could get some federal funding from the $2 trillion+ infrastructure plan.

They could probably find a way to use money from the last stimulus on it frankly.