June 3, 20214 yr No matter what color they paint this bridge it will never look sleek or contemporary. I don't understand why it is engineered so heavily for pedestrian use only.
June 3, 20214 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/06/cleveland-lakefront-connector-plan-backed-by-browns-wins-praise-from-a-pivotal-state-council-with-caveats.html
June 3, 20214 yr ^ I’ve not had my second cup of coffee yet today, so maybe I’m being a bit slow, but what exactly are those ‘caveats’ the headline speaks of? I couldn’t get anything from the article about what they might be. My hovercraft is full of eels
June 3, 20214 yr ^ great question. If only the rag had an editor to ask the same. Perhaps they are referring to Marchbank's urging to confab with St. Louis?
June 3, 20214 yr I didn't see any caveats either for winning the planning and engineering money. Because removing the Shoreway bridge east of West 9th will reduce capacity, construction may have to come from a different pot of money. That may include the piece of the Biden infastructure program for removing highways that divide cities. That program is currently proposed at $800 million. It could also be used to add two intersections with bus stops on the West Shoreway, one at West 45th and the other at West 54th/Cass, could get trucks out of Lakeside Terrace and promote development of the HKM and Westinghouse properties. By the way, I hope the proposed downgrading of the Shoreway will also include extending East 18th to an intersection with the Shoreway. That would help develop the east side of downtown, as would the extension of GCRTA's Waterfront Line as a downtown loop. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 3, 20214 yr God that's clunky. The designer should be embarrassed. Or maybe he's just laughing at the idiot's who signed off on that monstrosity.
June 4, 20214 yr Three leading Northeast Ohio city planning experts endorse Browns’ lakefront plan, reject idea of moving stadium https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/06/three-leading-northeast-ohio-city-planning-experts-endorse-browns-lakefront-plan-reject-idea-of-moving-stadium.htmlNow there’s a headline...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
June 4, 20214 yr I know there are always tweaks to be made, but overall I like this project. I hope that the support and the money will be there to make this actually happen...and soon! The question is (and the day will eventually come) what happens when a new stadium is actually needed? I am sure that this project is being built "around" the current stadium. Would a new stadium be built on the old footprint? Where would the team play in the meantime? (Columbus or maybe Buffalo?) Does this project thrive on being built around a stadium? If so, how would it survive if there were no longer a stadium there? Would whatever infill be enough to keep the area vibrant, or would it turn into an "island" that may or may not work? I know there are no solid answers to these questions (even the transit center hasn't been fully addressed) I am just thinking on screen.
June 4, 20214 yr Does anyone have any theories as to what is spurring the Haslam's to invest in this? Is the plan some kind of a mix of goodwill and strategic angling to solicit more public money for stadium improvements? To truly maximize usage that things gonna need a roof.
June 4, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, surfohio said: Does anyone have any theories as to what is spurring the Haslam's to invest in this? Money. Sorry to be flip, but it's that simple. Higher rents, cheap land and the availability of new incentives for new construction (TMUD) make the lakefront a draw. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 4, 20214 yr 42 minutes ago, KJP said: Money. Sorry to be flip, but it's that simple. Higher rents, cheap land and the availability of new incentives for new construction (TMUD) make the lakefront a draw. So they’re planning on taking over the role of the former site developer?
June 4, 20214 yr 12 hours ago, surfohio said: To truly maximize usage that things gonna need a roof. Correct, yet the rendering doesn't show any noticeable changes to the stadium.
June 4, 20214 yr 8 hours ago, surfohio said: So they’re planning on taking over the role of the former site developer? I expect an arrangement similar to what the Haslams are doing at the new Columbus Crew stadium: https://www.pizzuti.com/press/the-pizzuti-companies-and-haslam-sports-group-announce-conceptual-plans-for-mixed-use-development "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 4, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, KJP said: Money. Sorry to be flip, but it's that simple. Higher rents, cheap land and the availability of new incentives for new construction (TMUD) make the lakefront a draw. I think you can add some blanks in this question and the answer is the same. "Do you know what is spurring [insert person] to invest in [insert project]?" "Money."
June 5, 20214 yr On 6/4/2021 at 6:55 AM, LlamaLawyer said: I think you can add some blanks in this question and the answer is the same. "Do you know what is spurring [insert person] to invest in [insert project]?" "Money." Ha! True. But I have to wonder if making money out of this was easy then theoretically there should be multiple entities battling over this right to develop this area.
June 10, 20214 yr Should've just stopped right here..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20214 yr Wendy Park Bridge (6-13-21) The bridge from the East Bank The new multi-use path on the west side of River Road, connecting the Willow Avenue bridge to the north end of the Cleveland Foundation Centennial Lake Link Trail. Whiskey Island Connector Trail The trail has nice views of the bulk terminal. You can just barley see part of the new ore tunnel. The bridge/boardwalk around the bend at the Westerly treatment plant looks just about ready to open. A sailboat going through the North Coast Harbor lift bridge There were a lot of people at the East 9th pier, East and West banks of the Flats, Whiskey Island and of course Edgewater. It's great to see people enjoying the Lake on a beautiful Sunday.
June 14, 20214 yr I forgot to post these from Friday when moving my friends boat out to his yacht club: progress on Wendy Park bridge and the Old River Rd development
June 14, 20214 yr See, we can still build nice looking bridges in Cleveland, North Coast harbor notwithstanding.
June 14, 20214 yr It feels like the new connecting bridges and trails are literally changing the way Clevelanders are being drawn to and moving in and around cool sections of the city that were under appreciated not long ago - especially those around the river. It also seems like we’re seeing our city with new appreciation for its unique landscapes and possibilities.
June 14, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, NorthShore647 said: Wendy Park Bridge (6-13-21) The bridge from the East Bank The new multi-use path on the west side of River Road, connecting the Willow Avenue bridge to the north end of the Cleveland Foundation Centennial Lake Link Trail. Whiskey Island Connector Trail The trail has nice views of the bulk terminal. You can just barley see part of the new ore tunnel. The bridge/boardwalk around the bend at the Westerly treatment plant looks just about ready to open. A sailboat going through the North Coast Harbor lift bridge There were a lot of people at the East 9th pier, East and West banks of the Flats, Whiskey Island and of course Edgewater. It's great to see people enjoying the Lake on a beautiful Sunday. With how busy Edgewater has been already this summer - I think there's evidence that the demand is there for a second city beach in or around Downtown.
June 14, 20214 yr 28 minutes ago, YABO713 said: With how busy Edgewater has been already this summer - I think there's evidence that the demand is there for a second city beach in or around Downtown. Agree. I expect Gordon Park will offer that beach. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20214 yr 40 minutes ago, YABO713 said: With how busy Edgewater has been already this summer - I think there's evidence that the demand is there for a second city beach in or around Downtown. Agree. Wendy park waterfront from the Coast Guard station access road to the marina would be great, and it’s already naturally sandy. Just needs cleaned up and brush removed. Especially with the new access bridge right behind.
June 14, 20214 yr 43 minutes ago, KJP said: 1 hour ago, YABO713 said: With how busy Edgewater has been already this summer - I think there's evidence that the demand is there for a second city beach in or around Downtown. Agree. I expect Gordon Park will offer that beach. I would definitely spend more time at the Lake if it was only a ~3 mile bike ride to a beach at Gordon Park over the ~9 miles to Edgewater (from The Circle). Things are at least moving in the right direction though for an "Edgewater East" 29 minutes ago, marty15 said: Agree. Wendy park waterfront from the Coast Guard station access road to the marina would be great, and it’s already naturally sandy. Just needs cleaned up and brush removed. Especially with the new access bridge right behind. Yes the existing beach there could be extended to the east, at least to the end of the volleyball courts, rather easily it seems.
June 14, 20214 yr I think we sometimes forget just how massive Edgewater Park is. There is space along the shoreline to add another beach as you go west, I would love to see that. I would also like to see a study that would identify areas along the Park that could be open up for development. A very cool east coast type waterfront community that the park would run through, something very cutting edge. With a nice mix of apartments and for sale units. Here is a video from Treadmill TV that takes you through the whole area.
June 14, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, marty15 said: Agree. Wendy park waterfront from the Coast Guard station access road to the marina would be great, and it’s already naturally sandy. Just needs cleaned up and brush removed. Especially with the new access bridge right behind. The potential issue I see with Wendy Park (as well as Gordon) from a beach perspective is that being largely behind the breakwall, the waters tend to be more stagnant and thus more sensitive to pollutants. Anyone who has worked in a highrise downtown can see the issues the area has with the river and urban runoff.
June 14, 20214 yr This paved trail section would be much better as an elevated boardwalk imho. The sand/sediment coming down the hillside and even blowing from the beach have been a constant nuisance.
June 14, 20214 yr 34 minutes ago, surfohio said: The potential issue I see with Wendy Park (as well as Gordon) from a beach perspective is that being largely behind the breakwall, the waters tend to be more stagnant and thus more sensitive to pollutants. Anyone who has worked in a highrise downtown can see the issues the area has with the river and urban runoff. Could culverts under the Coast Guard causeway address this?
June 14, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, marty15 said: Could culverts under the Coast Guard causeway address this? Probably not as that entire area is inside the main Cleveland harbor wall.
June 16, 20213 yr Pick some good music to hear with this video "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20213 yr 5 minutes ago, KJP said: Pick some good music to watch with this video They don't have the new NC harbor bridge rendering in there, fake news. This looks AMAZING! Edited June 16, 20213 yr by GISguy
June 16, 20213 yr That’s a lot of wide open space. Seems like probably a lot of public investment for little return.
June 17, 20213 yr What's a realistic time frame for this if it were to get the funding it needs? I'd imagine it wouldn't start until ODOT does their thing. Is this a possibility by say 2025?
June 17, 20213 yr 18 hours ago, bumsquare said: That’s a lot of wide open space. Seems like probably a lot of public investment for little return. They did mention in the planning commission meeting that not every possibility was rendered. Attaching a screen capture of that portion of video. The blue boxes are what they identified as other development opportunities. Yellow highlight are my additions:
June 17, 20213 yr I'm still a little confused about what will happen with the shoreway, specifically the section from the land bridge to the Main Ave bridge.
June 17, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, skiwest said: I'm still a little confused about what will happen with the shoreway, specifically the section from the land bridge to the Main Ave bridge. I hope they get rid of it
June 17, 20213 yr Although design is still at a conceptual stage, I believe the concept is for the Shoreway to be turned into a boulevard west of Dead Man's Curve and located immediately north of the Shoreway west of East 9th and have a T-intersection or a hard-left turn on West 3rd as Lake Shore Drive does in Chicago. Then it would turn hard right and head for the Main Avenue Bridge. Or something like that. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 17, 20213 yr 46 minutes ago, Henryefry said: I hope they get rid of it That would seem to be the plan according to the video rendering.
June 17, 20213 yr 19 hours ago, bumsquare said: That’s a lot of wide open space. Seems like probably a lot of public investment for little return. Disagree. To me, this project could create a sort of Public-Square-on-the-Lake. Which is badly needed. Plus, the open space would leave room for potential additions of some of the kinds of things fun lakefronts have. Imagine a mini boardwalk with an arcade and a couple stores that sell kitsch stuff from Memorial Day through Labor Day. You could have one here in front of the stadium and a second one at Edgewater. 'Twould kill. That's my dream, lol.
June 17, 20213 yr 24 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: To me, this project could create a sort of Public-Square-on-the-Lake. Which is badly needed. Jersey barriers and dead trees? No thanks. I'll take buildings and people.
June 17, 20213 yr 13 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Jersey barriers and dead trees? No thanks. I'll take buildings and people. Two extremely easy fixes that competent leadership will eventually solve. We need more buildings and more people and more public spaces. There's plenty growing room downtown for us to have more of all three.
June 17, 20213 yr 13 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: Two extremely easy fixes that competent leadership will eventually solve. We need more buildings and more people and more public spaces. There's plenty growing room downtown for us to have more of all three. Boston's Seaport is this type of an investment. This can be done. What the plan needs are some anchor Corporate Tenants (e.g., CLF or the Justice Center) and some Retail investors (restaurants, shops, etc) and the people will come. It's just as cold and windy in Boston in the winter and the Seaport has supported 23 million sq feet of investment
June 17, 20213 yr I'd like to see those surface parking lots in CBD get developed. Downtown Cleveland is like a big donut. Let's fill the donut hole first before building towers on the lakefront. Edited June 17, 20213 yr by skiwest
June 17, 20213 yr 29 minutes ago, skiwest said: I'd like to see those surface parking lots in CBD get developed. Downtown Cleveland is like a big donut. Let's fill the donut hole first before building towers on the lakefront. Agree. This seems like spreading (I’m assuming) public resources thin when there’s still so much work to do in the CDB. This plan just seems like some billionaire’s coke dream of city building.
June 17, 20213 yr 56 minutes ago, skiwest said: I'd like to see those surface parking lots in CBD get developed. Downtown Cleveland is like a big donut. Let's fill the donut hole first before building towers on the lakefront. You won't have to wait long. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 17, 20213 yr 34 minutes ago, KJP said: You won't have to wait long. Yeah, I was going to say, those parking craters will be disappearing soon, so it makes sense to start looking toward lakefront development.
June 17, 20213 yr 33 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said: Yeah, I was going to say, those parking craters will be disappearing soon, so it makes sense to start looking toward lakefront development. Correct. Why not both
June 17, 20213 yr Furthermore, having an attractive lakefront would only help people desire to work and live downtown which in turn will cause further development.
June 17, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, jeremyck01 said: Yeah, I was going to say, those parking craters will be disappearing soon, so it makes sense to start looking toward lakefront development. I just estimated about 10 acres of surface parking in the Warehouse district. SHW is the only project announced so far. All the other projects are only proposals at this point. Are some of these proposed projects more definite and forthcoming than expected?
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