February 8, 20223 yr I engaged in a chat with Mr. North Ridgeville. I thought I was being pretty pleasant with the guy, even though he wants the downtown lakefront sacrificed to a wider highway so he can escape the city a little faster at the end of 8 events each year. But he blocked me anyway. So I call upon you all, my good urbanist friends, to carry the torch in my stead..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, KJP said: I engaged in a chat with Mr. North Ridgeville. I thought I was being pretty pleasant with the guy, even though he wants the downtown lakefront sacrificed to a wider highway so he can escape the city a little faster at the end of 8 events each year. But he blocked me anyway. So I call upon you all, my good urbanist friends, to carry the torch in my stead..... Done! 😉
February 8, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, cadmen said: ^ This is the kind of ignorance we have to deal with here. In a lot of ways the Old Timers in this town are to be celebrated. They represent Old Cleveland and are a link to many of the things we love about this town. Unfortunately, a lot of that old thinking is what got us where we are in today. At the very least, that old thinking is holding us back from creating the vibrant city we desire. A funny thing I've noticed about many of these people is they will come back from visiting some place and will talk about how nice it was, how they could walk around these really cool areas with open air bars and cafes, or neat waterfronts with shops and activities. People everywhere just enjoying themselves. Then they have the opportunity to support the creation of something like that here and they say "No." They can't seem to make the connection that the very things they liked about the place they just came back from could also be created here. You don't have to run away to Strongsville to live or drive to Crocker Park to have a semblance of a real old fashioned town with shops on the first floor and apartments above. Why the disconnect? You liked it on vacation but you don't like it here? I don't get it. I've had this discussion with friends and family so many times I've lost count. And the only thing that came out of those discussions is I was never able to change their minds. It was like talking to a brick wall. Most people lack the ability to envision something that’s not there. Or how it can be made there.
February 10, 20223 yr How’s this for a vision. Pictures from the old bad waterfront to the new wonderful waterfront. Let’s make it happen here. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 12, 20223 yr https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2022/02/should-the-latest-effort-to-re-imagine-clevelands-lakefront-take-a-back-seat-to-traffic-concerns.html
February 26, 20223 yr A good, and promising, article from Cleveland.com on efforts to add Lakefront trails. Glad to see these are continuing to move forward! https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/02/5-new-lakefront-projects-led-by-cuyahoga-county-cleveland-metroparks-gain-support-accelerating-drive-to-open-up-shoreline.html
February 26, 20223 yr Increasing access to the water is a must. However, further armoring the shoreline with metal bulkheads is not just hideously ugly, it's also a really outdated, short-sighted and irreversibly bad option. Here's why: https://www.surfrider.org/coastal-blog/entry/seawalls-are-stealing-our-sandy-beaches
March 30, 20223 yr So there'll be news articles to follow, but the county's Lakefront Public Access Plan just hit today: https://www.cuyahogacounty.us/executive/initiatives/lakefront-public-access-plan The GIS portion can be found at https://www.cuyahogacounty.us/lakefront 🤓
March 30, 20223 yr dee and jimmy haslam, talked about stadium options at the owners meeting... https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/dee-and-jimmy-haslam-focused-on-bringing-firstenergy-stadium-up-to-a-better-stan
March 30, 20223 yr 5 hours ago, GISguy said: So there'll be news articles to follow, but the county's Lakefront Public Access Plan just hit today: https://www.cuyahogacounty.us/executive/initiatives/lakefront-public-access-plan The GIS portion can be found at https://www.cuyahogacounty.us/lakefront 🤓 I'm very impressed with how professional and polished this all looks! Really good job by the county on presenting this plan. Having multiple ways to digest the information is very cool, and much appreciated! Also I'm glad to see the Green Ribbon Coalition's proposal to unite Gordon Park make it into the maps document. It's only tangentially related, but I'm glad to see it's still being discussed.
April 2, 20223 yr This is a thread for discussing lakefront development, not stadiums, stadium economics, or hosting of large events. He have threads for all of those things. Thank you.
May 12, 20223 yr Don't know if this has been posted yet -- I don't recall it being shared publicly. It proposes a truck-only bridge from the Shoreway to Whiskey Island to get the trucks out of Lakeview Estates. It proposes a new intersection on the Shoreway. This is the original.... I made a few alterations as part of the effort to turn the Shoreway into a boulevard from West 3rd east to Dead Man's Curve, to reconnect Lakeview Estates with the city (or better yet, tear it down and replace it with mixed-income housing), and add more intersections to the Shoreway with bus stops added at each intersection.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 12, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: Don't know if this has been posted yet -- I don't recall it being shared publicly. It proposes a truck-only bridge from the Shoreway to Whiskey Island to get the trucks out of Lakeview Estates. It proposes a new intersection on the Shoreway. This is the original.... I made a few alterations as part of the effort to turn the Shoreway into a boulevard from West 3rd east to Dead Man's Curve, to reconnect Lakeview Terrace with the city (or better yet, tear it down and replace it with mixed-income housing), and add more intersections to the Shoreway with bus stops added at each intersection.... I recall them discussing this a few years back, so glad it hasn't lost steam. Maybe this also plays into making the lift bridge by the new WP bridge more bike/ped centric?
May 12, 20223 yr Tearing down lake view terrace isn’t talked about enough, probably due to the exorbitant costs but the housing over there is in terrible shape. Maybe tearing down the Shoreway into a boulevard will force some light onto the disrepair
May 13, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Tearing down lake view terrace isn’t talked about enough, probably due to the exorbitant costs but the housing over there is in terrible shape. Maybe tearing down the Shoreway into a boulevard will force some light onto the disrepair Agree. They’ve replaced a lot of those in Central, and in Tremont. I would hope this is high on the list for CMHA.
May 30, 20223 yr https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/05/rock-roll-hall-of-fames-next-chapter-the-beatles-los-angeles-and-a-100-million-expansion.html Some pretty interesting stuff in here including: 2022 start date for rock hall expansion controversial “guitar pick” design is being revised.
May 31, 20223 yr Thank you for sharing that @LlamaLawyer A couple thoughts on the hall - the emphasis on more live performances is excellent - I’ve always thought there should be a real physical venue for live performances and wish that was a component of the expansion. The design of the expansion - that guitar pick ( or whatever it is) low corridor slicing into the current museum - very disappointing. The expansion should’ve been immediately iconic as was the original RRHF. Wishing the Rock Hall all the best recovering from the setback of the pandemic.
May 31, 20223 yr Good to hear that the initial expansion plans potentially got thrown in the trash, where they belong. Edited May 31, 20223 yr by marty15
May 31, 20223 yr Many years ago, there was a plan to expand the rock hall underground and link it to the science center. I assume it never happened. https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=110485&page=1
May 31, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Many years ago, there was a plan to expand the rock hall underground and link it to the science center. I assume it never happened. https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=110485&page=1 A large portion of the Rock Hall is already underground. The museum extends out underneath the whole plaza.
May 31, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, marty15 said: A large portion of the Rock Hall is already underground. The museum extends out underneath the whole plaza. I know. But did the proposed expansion ever happen? I don't think so.
May 31, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I know. But did the proposed expansion ever happen? I don't think so. No, but I liked it more than the most recent plan.
May 31, 20223 yr 49 minutes ago, marty15 said: No, but I liked it more than the most recent plan. Perhaps they should dust off that plan. I would prefer something less obtrusive that doesn't alter the appearance of the original structure and plaza. Edited May 31, 20223 yr by LibertyBlvd
May 31, 20223 yr I guess there are reasons to carve out the little hillside to create the new addition but in general, l prefer building up not borrowing in. Similar to the newish convention center. We must have the only center in America that has a little bump for the main entrance. A green roof is fine and all as well as the little promontory for a view. But all that comes at the expense of an aboveground building that is a visual calling card like the Pittsburgh convention center for example. I know that ship has sailed. I'm just expressing a general preference. Carry on.
May 31, 20223 yr The Plain Dealer ran a cover page story on the 29th about the latest lakefront development push - but it was subscriber only and I could only find page one of the story online. Anything news worthy at all in that piece?
May 31, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, CleveFan said: The Plain Dealer ran a cover page story on the 29th about the latest lakefront development push - but it was subscriber only and I could only find page one of the story online. Anything news worthy at all in that piece? Well.. maybe this once.
June 13, 20223 yr Hey UOers, someone recently (past week or two) posted something about First Energy Stadium rapidly aging and I think they referenced a video about it. But now I can't find it. Can someone share a link to that post? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20223 yr I didn't see a video, but did see this article: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/06/new-pedestrian-ramps-at-firstenergy-stadium-among-10-million-in-slated-taxpayer-funded-repairs.html
June 14, 20223 yr I wasn’t aware that FE was beginning to have infrastructure issues - I had thought most of the work and updates were more cosmetic in nature. Then again, especially for those of us who have been around awhile, It might be surprising to realize that FE is now among the older stadiums in the NFL / there are 17 newer ones. It’s going to be extremely interesting to see what the future will bring for the Browns home. I doubt the Haslams are going to be content without a new stadium at the earliest opportunity. Not sure what the popular consensus will be, but I’ll be rooting hard to see a new stadium location for the next generations of Browns fans - with the golden opportunity to transform the current stadium site into the waterfront that can help take Cleveland to the next level. The potential for this city’s future is amazing. But some critical decisions are just over the horizon.
June 14, 20223 yr 12 hours ago, CleveFan said: I wasn’t aware that FE was beginning to have infrastructure issues - I had thought most of the work and updates were more cosmetic in nature. Then again, especially for those of us who have been around awhile, It might be surprising to realize that FE is now among the older stadiums in the NFL / there are 17 newer ones. It’s going to be extremely interesting to see what the future will bring for the Browns home. I doubt the Haslams are going to be content without a new stadium at the earliest opportunity. Not sure what the popular consensus will be, but I’ll be rooting hard to see a new stadium location for the next generations of Browns fans - with the golden opportunity to transform the current stadium site into the waterfront that can help take Cleveland to the next level. The potential for this city’s future is amazing. But some critical decisions are just over the horizon. The only question I’d have is whether the funding from the state for the lakefront project would remain consistent if the Browns are no longer anchoring it?
June 14, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, BuckeyeNative said: The only question I’d have is whether the funding from the state for the lakefront project would remain consistent if the Browns are no longer anchoring it? Browns have development rights to the city-owned land on the lakefront. It's about 70 acres. That's a significant piece of land that could be a TIF district and use the revenues to help fund a new stadium elsewhere. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20223 yr 23 minutes ago, KJP said: Browns have development rights to the city-owned land on the lakefront. It's about 70 acres. That's a significant piece of land that could be a TIF district and use the revenues to help fund a new stadium elsewhere. Thank you. Going off what you said, I’m assuming they would not forfeit those development rights if they were to build a new stadium, say, north of CSU near St. Clair Avenue?
June 14, 20223 yr 10 minutes ago, BuckeyeNative said: Thank you. Going off what you said, I’m assuming they would not forfeit those development rights if they were to build a new stadium, say, north of CSU near St. Clair Avenue? That's what it appears. And what made you ask about north of CSU? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20223 yr 25 minutes ago, KJP said: That's what it appears. And what made you ask about north of CSU? I was just using it as an example if they looked to build elsewhere within/near downtown. By no means was I trying to imply that I know anything.
June 17, 20222 yr I'm hoping to get this done this evening... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 17, 20222 yr 52 minutes ago, tastybunns said: HERE IT COMES That’s the best gif I’ve ever seen 😄
June 17, 20222 yr Sorry, took a break to go to the park for dinner. We'll be back at the keyboard soon... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20222 yr Almost done "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20222 yr Browns leaning toward new stadium By Ken Prendergast / June 17, 2022 According to two sources close to the Cleveland Browns and its owner the Haslam Sports Group, the National Football League (NFL) team is leaning toward building a new stadium versus renovating the existing FirstEnergy Stadium. And the sources say the team already has at least two sites picked out as options for a new stadium that will likely cost in excess of $1 billion. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/06/17/browns-leaning-toward-new-stadium/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20222 yr Alright the Main Post Office site would be terrible, east of downtown makes the most sense aside from keeping it where it’s at, what did other stadiums in downtowns do about parking like us bank stadium, underground? Because that would be awesome. would this suggest shovels in ground for the Harlem lakefront development and land bridge before 2028 or is it being suggested commitments only?
June 18, 20222 yr I'd rather they put it at the Post Office site. Football stadiums get used about a dozen times a year. The rest of the year they're big hulking wastes of space. It doesn't belong on prime lakefront land or so close to the middle of Downtown. I'm not a fan of cutting up our street grid for yet another megablock for it, either.
June 18, 20222 yr Yeah develop the land to the south I agree.. just speculating but a tram down the middle of Orange/Ontario seems like a feasible way to create connectivity between a new stadium and Public Square.
June 18, 20222 yr 19 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: Yeah develop the land to the south I agree.. just speculating but a tram down the middle of Orange/Ontario seems like a feasible way to create connectivity between a new stadium and Public Square. In addition to the busiest section of the Rapid which sees a train every 7.5 minutes? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20222 yr Thanks as always, @KJP! Great news in my book - this could be the biggest win- win scenario for Cleveland in many years. To me, a competitive stadium for the mid 21st century is critical to Cleveland’s continued success as a major league market for the next few generations. Opening the downtown lakefront for an entire new neighborhood or large scale development is an obvious slam dunk. A multi- purpose year round facility could benefit the city on dozens of days through the year rather than 9 or 10. It could attract many larger scale special events benefitting many workers on a more frequent larger scale. I like the East of central business district site much better for a couple main reasons I’m concerned that easy highway access to the south of 77 could create a “drive right in and right out” culture for the games, giving virtually zero help to the existing bars and restaurants downtown. As close as it is to downtown, the post office site might end up being equivalent to a suburban site in terms of lack of interactivity between the city and the stadium. We have that problem now with the lack of access to the lakefront from the city - this is an opportunity to create a new, strong connectivity between the city and the stadium. There’s no guarantee that an entire village park would be built around the new stadium site - whereas with the other site at least the existing bars and restaurants would be accessible without crossing over a major highway. There’s still fairly easy car access to the East of the business district site - but it’s much more connected to downtown. Additionally, the possibility of extending significant downtown style development eastward would be greatly enhanced by a stadium site in an area that hasn’t been particularly attractive previously. With the walk up ability to a new stadium East of downtown, more existing residents could attend games without the necessity of cars. The possibility of new high rise residences would be on the table considering easy access to the stadium, the downtown district - not to mention beautiful lake front and downtown views Super exciting times for the city could be just over the horizon. Edited June 18, 20222 yr by CleveFan
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