2 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'd rather have this somewhere in the Gateway District. 

Even better at the west end of former sleepy Burke next to a new stadium/dome and the lakefront nature preserve to the east almost extending to Metroparks CHEERS lakefront development. 

3 hours ago, Willo said:

Even better at the west end of former sleepy Burke next to a new stadium/dome and the lakefront nature preserve to the east almost extending to Metroparks CHEERS lakefront development. 

 

How about we tie it into shared use by the Rock Hall, Science Center, Aquarium and who knows....even some orange sports team that probably doesn't deserve it lol. 

Hey, how about a high roller wheel too?

I think this is a great cautionary tale for lakefront development and to make sure it's connected well to the rest of the city

 

 

6 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I think this is a great cautionary tale for lakefront development and to make sure it's connected well to the rest of the city

 

 

I saw this a meant to post this here. Once they said it was to be like another city in a city I knew exactly why it flopped. This stuff never works. 

8 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I think this is a great cautionary tale for lakefront development and to make sure it's connected well to the rest of the city

 

 

 

I don't have time to watch the whole video, but could he be doing this at 8am on a Sunday morning before anything is open?

1 minute ago, E Rocc said:

 

I don't have time to watch the whole video, but could he be doing this at 8am on a Sunday morning before anything is open?

No this was on a Saturday. The development is disconnected from the rest of the city by a freeway, the residential component is struggling and the Under Armor headquarters that was supposed to be massive was downsized to one buildings and repurposed an old Walmart. 

Just now, E Rocc said:

 

I don't have time to watch the whole video, but could he be doing this at 8am on a Sunday morning before anything is open?

 

Unlike Cleveland, Baltimore has wayyy more waterfront development competing with this. So it's somewhat believable. But they also had a failed mall at their Inner Harbor (which was heavily retail-dependent), so maybe there's a little bit of pessimism about this project too.

Cybertown USA...ouch. But this is textbook inorganically subsidized "growth" at work. 

Having said all that - it's a beautiful development

54 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I think this is a great cautionary tale for lakefront development and to make sure it's connected well to the rest of the city

 

 

I saw that a couple of days again.  It made me shiver thinking of our lakefront proposals.  Inner Harbor is a ghost town now as well (or was a couple of years ago) although they apparently have some plans to fix the situation.  Don't know how that is proceeding.

I think this video is a good example of why the Small Towns approach of incremental development is so powerful. Big projects like the above are awesome when they work, but if they don't? HOLY COW. It's just such a huge risk to put all your eggs in one basket like that. At least with projects like Bedrock Riverfront they're doing it in stages, so you can reassess what worked and what doesn't after each incremental step.

 

Also though--the "Peninsula"--that is *NOT* a good location. I was in downtown Baltimore recently and had no clue that it existed. According to Google Maps it's a 45-minute walk from Inner Harbor and a 60(!!) minute walk from downtown. Literally, you can walk from E. 55 to Downtown Cleveland in less time than you can walk from the Peninsula to downtown Baltimore.
 

Appalling. 

 

If you took that same development and plopped it down on our lakefront where the stadium is, I guarantee it would be doing way, way better.

Is this not what the Flats East Bank wanted to be?  

2 minutes ago, newyorker said:

Is this not what the Flats East Bank wanted to be?  

 

While I am admittedly underwhelmed with Flats East Bank, this place was initially marketed as Dubai on the harbor. So its current state is a more spectacular fail imho. 

2 hours ago, sonisharri said:

 

Unlike Cleveland, Baltimore has wayyy more waterfront development competing with this. So it's somewhat believable. But they also had a failed mall at their Inner Harbor (which was heavily retail-dependent), so maybe there's a little bit of pessimism about this project too.

 

This.  Baltimore just has so many more options when it comes to their waterfront amenities than Cleveland currently has.  Everyone thinks Inner Harbor, but then you have everything to the SE in Fells Point.  This development we are discussing is in a forgotten point away from downtown separated by dense rowhome neighborhoods, a rail line/freeway. 

I was in Baltimore last year and drove through this.

 

This site is like if someone dropped $1B in development on the old Lake Shore Power Plant site @KJP from the universiry design competition recently wrote an article about, and the E55 Marina, Gordon Park, and Lakefront Nature Preserve weren't there. 

 

They just spent a ton of money on a site that isn't connected to anything or anyone. The development is a 20-25 minute walk from the next closest residences, has terrible transit connections, and is terrible to drive to. 

 

Just an all around awful location for a development this nice and expensive. 

5 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

I was in Baltimore last year and drove through this.

 

This site is like if someone dropped $1B in development on the old Lake Shore Power Plant site @KJP from the universiry design competition recently wrote an article about, and the E55 Marina, Gordon Park, and Lakefront Nature Preserve weren't there. 

 

They just spent a ton of money on a site that isn't connected to anything or anyone. The development is a 20-25 minute walk from the next closest residences, has terrible transit connections, and is terrible to drive to. 

 

Just an all around awful location for a development this nice and expensive. 

 

Exactly.  Also what it will be like on non-game days if they build the new Browns stadium development in Brookpark.   

21 hours ago, sonisharri said:

 

Unlike Cleveland, Baltimore has wayyy more waterfront development competing with this. So it's somewhat believable. But they also had a failed mall at their Inner Harbor (which was heavily retail-dependent), so maybe there's a little bit of pessimism about this project too.

 

Interesting.   Back in the late 90s we used to tangle with Baltimore people online and they'd boast about the Inner Harbor.   We'd say it wasn't going to last if they didn't get a handle on....ummm.....other civic issues.

44 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Interesting.   Back in the late 90s we used to tangle with Baltimore people online and they'd boast about the Inner Harbor.   We'd say it wasn't going to last if they didn't get a handle on....ummm.....other civic issues.

And despite those coded "civic issues," Baltimore's Inner Harbor continues to thrive.  It's the Peninsula Redevelopment Project, the subject of that video, that seems like a failure.

38 minutes ago, Foraker said:

And despite those coded "civic issues," Baltimore's Inner Harbor continues to thrive.  It's the Peninsula Redevelopment Project, the subject of that video, that seems like a failure.

 

Did the original "Inner Harbor" make a comeback?  I had thought, at least a few years ago, it was basically dead.  Though it was pretty long lived and held up as an example of a successful waterfront development (it was always referenced and used as a case study in my urban planning classes).   It was well connected to Downtown and many other attractions, so with some rethinking I would imagine it could be successful again.   

Seemed to be booming last summer when I visited despite the usual incidents that infect virtually every major US city.

 

Had a late 90s Flats vibe: Past its heyday but still a major attraction that can afford a handful more nights of chaos before winding down completely. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19Mar 19 by TBideon

6 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Seemed to be booming last summer when I visited despite the usual incidents that infect virtually every major US city.

 

Had a late 90s Flats vibe: Past its heyday but still a major attraction that can afford a handful more nights of chaos before winding down completely. 

 

I was jealous that Inner Harbor had something that North Coast Harbor did not: pedestrian flow. 

 

Here is hoping this improves with the Rock Hall renovations, better coordination among stakeholders, better access and better overall surrounding plans.  

35 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Seemed to be booming last summer when I visited despite the usual incidents that infect virtually every major US city.

 

Had a late 90s Flats vibe: Past its heyday but still a major attraction that can afford a handful more nights of chaos before winding down completely. 

 

 

 

 

I remember a youtube video I saw a couple of years ago that went through both retail halls and they were virtually empty.  I don't mean lack of people, although that was true as well, but virtually all the retail and restaurants were gone.

 

At the time I also recall reading some news articles and the city administration seemed to be in panic mode regarding what Inner Harbor once was and what it had become, and were trying to get developers in to completely re-invent the place.  I was really surprised as I had not heard about any of this.  Last time I had been there was for a Browns game in the early 2000s and it was still thriving.  Had a wonderful meal outside on of the halls along the harbor.  I do recall, for some strange reason, our waiter, who was a native, hated the city and could not wait to leave.  My buddy I went to the game with was not feeling too charitable as well as he had his wallet picked at the game.  Guess who had to end up paying for dinner.

Edited March 19Mar 19 by Htsguy

13 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I do recall, for some strange reason, our waiter, who was a native, hated the city and could not wait to leave.  My buddy I went to the game with was not feeling too charitable as well as he had his wallet picked at the game.  Guess who had to end up paying for dinner.

 

That's one major difference between Cleveland (area) and Baltimore people.   We have a lot more civic pride.  

 

Specifically, we'll complain about things here, but not to outsiders.   (Exceptions to this rule, like Mike Polk, are seen as traitors by many).   When outsiders criticize Cleveland, even somewhat fairly, we can get very emphatic and even hostile in defense.

The Cleveland lakefront has a similar issue to the rest of downtown Cleveland.  Essentially no residential neighborhoods that abut it.  Every residence that surrounds the center city of Cleveland is the result of a new development/neighborhood that was ground up construction.  That's why I have always viewed investment into the single family homes in Asiatown as a significant game-changer in Cleveland.  If only that could go the way of Ohio City.  Literally the only "neighborhood", albeit small, that flows into the city.  

 

With regard to Baltimore, Fells Point, which is a fantastic neighborhood, has a direct connection to the Inner-harbor along with the Center City.  Then the south-end of Baltimore is lined with fantastic residential stock flowing into the city.  

As a fan of cities l take no pleasure in reading that Baltimore's lnner Harbor is struggling. During the '90's l found myself visiting at least once a year for baseball, clinical trial meetings or just to show it off to friends. I actually enjoy the scale, look and price of Baltimore. There are a lot of similarities with Cleveland. Now, l find l haven't been there in maybe 15 years. Maybe l'll substitute it for my annual Boston visit. Our cities need some love and support in these trying times.

 

 

6 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I remember a youtube video I saw a couple of years ago that went through both retail halls and they were virtually empty.  I don't mean lack of people, although that was true as well, but virtually all the retail and restaurants were gone.

 

At the time I also recall reading some news articles and the city administration seemed to be in panic mode regarding what Inner Harbor once was and what it had become, and were trying to get developers in to completely re-invent the place.  I was really surprised as I had not heard about any of this.  Last time I had been there was for a Browns game in the early 2000s and it was still thriving.  Had a wonderful meal outside on of the halls along the harbor.  I do recall, for some strange reason, our waiter, who was a native, hated the city and could not wait to leave.  My buddy I went to the game with was not feeling too charitable as well as he had his wallet picked at the game.  Guess who had to end up paying for dinner.

 

Almost certain this was the same video I'd seen. From what I've read online about the Inner Harbor, it still sounds like one of the most popular destinations in the city (I haven't visited in person), but I assume the retail component was hit especially hard during COVID.

A lot of the boom has shifted to Fells Point. That aside, my understanding is Inner Harbor is doing okay, just the indoor mall(s?) are dead.

9 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

That's one major difference between Cleveland (area) and Baltimore people.   We have a lot more civic pride.  

 

Specifically, we'll complain about things here, but not to outsiders.   (Exceptions to this rule, like Mike Polk, are seen as traitors by many).   When outsiders criticize Cleveland, even somewhat fairly, we can get very emphatic and even hostile in defense.

I had a few brewery bartenders and people sitting next to me talk about how much they loved Cleveland and wished Baltimore was more like it. I was a little shocked to hear it from multiple people at different places. I think they were specifically more jealous of the brewery scene we have here compared to a pretty mehhh Baltimore scene. But I rarely hear someone say they are jealous of Cleveland when traveling. 

17 hours ago, Jenny said:

The Cleveland lakefront has a similar issue to the rest of downtown Cleveland.  Essentially no residential neighborhoods that abut it. 

 

Are you referring strictly to downtown?   Because there's a lot of residential neighborhoods that abut it in the city and lakefront suburbs.   But keep in mind that the shoreline breaks to the north and it gets very cold and windy east of downtown.   

 

There's one less in Cleveland now, since the PTB decided to wipe one out in order to expand a park.  But they still exist.

9 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

 But I rarely hear someone say they are jealous of Cleveland when traveling. 

 

On the other hand, people that come here for the first time are almost always very pleasantly surprised.

On 3/19/2025 at 2:57 PM, Jenny said:

The Cleveland lakefront has a similar issue to the rest of downtown Cleveland.  Essentially no residential neighborhoods that abut it.  Every residence that surrounds the center city of Cleveland is the result of a new development/neighborhood that was ground up construction.  That's why I have always viewed investment into the single family homes in Asiatown as a significant game-changer in Cleveland.  If only that could go the way of Ohio City.  Literally the only "neighborhood", albeit small, that flows into the city.  

 

With regard to Baltimore, Fells Point, which is a fantastic neighborhood, has a direct connection to the Inner-harbor along with the Center City.  Then the south-end of Baltimore is lined with fantastic residential stock flowing into the city.  

This. One of Cleveland's biggest issues is lack of continuity. Makes for a lot of dead zones.

 

Most cities at least have one prime neighborhood that blends fairly seamlessly with the downtown core. Cincy has Over the Rhine, Columbus has Short North, Milwaukee has the East Side, Buffalo has Allentown...etc.

 

There hasn't been a vibrant residential neighborhood directly adjacent to downtown Cleveland for probably going on 100 years. It actually perplexes me why there isn't more developer initiative to build up the area going east from downtown to the innerbelt and out through Asiatown. To me this area should be a prime target for development, more so than the near west side.

14 hours ago, E Rocc said:

On the other hand, people that come here for the first time are almost always very pleasantly surprised.

 

Count me as one of those people, haha. I stayed here for a night because it was a convenient stopping point on my way to look at colleges in Chicago (driving from the East Coast). I ended up going to college here.

 

Granted, the "Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism Video" was basically only popular video about the city, so my expectations were very low.

Edited March 21Mar 21 by sonisharri

8 hours ago, Rustbelter said:

This. One of Cleveland's biggest issues is lack of continuity. Makes for a lot of dead zones.

 

Most cities at least have one prime neighborhood that blends fairly seamlessly with the downtown core. Cincy has Over the Rhine, Columbus has Short North, Milwaukee has the East Side, Buffalo has Allentown...etc.

 

There hasn't been a vibrant residential neighborhood directly adjacent to downtown Cleveland for probably going on 100 years. It actually perplexes me why there isn't more developer initiative to build up the area going east from downtown to the innerbelt and out through Asiatown. To me this area should be a prime target for development, more so than the near west side.

 

There's a lot of commercial and light industrial in that area, and of course Cleveland State is the main presence.  I believe it's even zoned that way.

 

But I suspect a big part of why there isn't one is the increasingly residential nature of downtown itself.

On 3/4/2025 at 10:51 AM, MyPhoneDead said:

Pretty cool idea, maybe another one could open up on the other end of the parking lot. 

This has been approved by the Planning Commission.

 

sure depopulation and connectivity remain big issues, but both seem to be righting themselves in recent years —

 

a 1980s throwback — 

 

 

North Coast Yard pop-up to activate lakefront

By Ian McDaniel / March 21, 2025

 

Like a company offering a free trial period to customers in the hopes of converting them into loyal subscribers, the city of Cleveland and North Coast Waterfront Development Corporation (NCWDC) officials hope to offer residents just that: a free trial period of lakefront activation and a tangible reason to support a permanent, fully-realized reimagining of an underutilized lakefront.

 

MORE: 

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/21/north-coast-yard-pop-up-to-activate-lakefront/

 

While I love the idea and intention behind the North Coast Yard pop-up, I worry that such a big area of hot asphalt may not be all that hospitable in the summer.  The second rendering really illustrates how much pavement is involved.  But I hope it succeeds in terms of getting people down there to see what works and what doesn't.

Another perfect example of why we should turn the Mather Museum into our cruise ship terminal!  

Harvard-MIT design for power plant redo wins

By Ken Prendergast / April 28, 2025

A redevelopment plan by a team of Harvard University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) students for the site of a former coal-fired power plant on Cleveland’s lakefront won the top prize in the 23rd annual Urban Land Institute(ULI)/Gerald D. Hines Student Urban Design Competition.

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/28/harvard-mit-design-for-power-plant-redo-wins/

I want that! Our lakefront should be a place not only to visit every “once in a while” - it should be a place where people live, work, and meet on a daily basis.

The full presentation/slidedeck is pretty great, wishful, but great! Helps really point out how wasted the land would be if IDA went the industrial route with it.

https://americas.uli.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/3_17082_Lakeshore_SlideDeck_Final-compressed.pdf

28 minutes ago, GISguy said:

The full presentation/slidedeck is pretty great, wishful, but great! Helps really point out how wasted the land would be if IDA went the industrial route with it.

https://americas.uli.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/3_17082_Lakeshore_SlideDeck_Final-compressed.pdf

Agreed! The only minor nitpick I really have with it is that it doesn't integrate that well with the CHEERS plan. I don't fault them for that though, 30 year plans are hard to rely on. And with that time table to completion the layout has to make sense without CHEERS as well. It's all hypothetical anyway though, so no sense sweating minor details like that. I'd love it if this area gets developed something like this.

Some details I did really like though are its integration with the lakefront bikeway, as well as interfacing with Gordon Park. I also like how they utilized and kept the water pond and put a park near it (though I think CHEERS plans to remove that). It's a well balanced plan overall.

Also, while the substations were clearly out of scope for this competition, actually making this area nice may require dressing these up and hiding them a little. The layout generally blocks these, but I think they will still be very noticable for anyone living here. Some walls, some landscaping, and/or even a fake building would do wonders.

44 minutes ago, GISguy said:

The full presentation/slidedeck is pretty great, wishful, but great! Helps really point out how wasted the land would be if IDA went the industrial route with it.

https://americas.uli.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/3_17082_Lakeshore_SlideDeck_Final-compressed.pdf

It's nice, pretty pix, and quite comprehensive. The price tag I saw was $1.3 billion. As an isolated development, it's probably a much higher risk than an equivalent investment to round out some current projects that sit uncompleted. I'd prefer to see Flats East Bank, Gateway, downtown lakefront, Scranton Peninsula, and Opportunity Corridor developed to the point of sustainability first.

a render of the browns stadium reno —

https://www.instagram.com/p/DJW7LptRyfz/?igsh=cmZ1bWwyeDNpdmpk

Just catching up on yesterday's big news? 😉

More

Metroparks breaks ground on Parker Sailing Center

By Ken Prendergast / May 9, 2025

The Cleveland Metroparks and its partners today broke ground on the Patrick S. Parker Community Sailing Center, a world-class community center coming to the East 55th Street Marina in Cleveland. When complete in 2026, the center’s two new structures will comprise the first community sailing center of its kind along Lake Erie in Ohio, offering stunning views of the Downtown Cleveland skyline and Lake Erie sunsets.

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/05/09/metroparks-breaks-ground-on-parker-sailing-center/

Cleveland owns its lakefront opportunities

By Ken Prendergast / May 18, 2025

One year ago, the City Planning Commission “hired” Cleveland State University’s 17th Street Studios for a Masters of Urban Planning and Development (MUPD) capstone project to look at how to enhance the underutilized light-rail Waterfront Line. One of the findings was that the city of Cleveland literally owned its own ability to boost the rail line and the lakefront overall.

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/05/18/cleveland-owns-its-lakefront-opportunities/