January 28, 20169 yr I'm neither surprised nor sad about this. The power plant is a hulking building that, unlike Quay 55 which is right on the lake, isn't particularly well located for residential develpment: it sits away from the water, blocked by the Shoreway and hemmed in between the Shoreway and the RR tracks. On top of this, there's really no synergy from areas surrounding plant; it would be a residential island: something Quay 55 suffers from, except that the Quay, again, has it's location directly on the lake going for it.
January 28, 20169 yr Only way this could have been redeveloped is if the Shoreway was redirected southward next to the tracks, and if a large-scale residential development (basically an entirely new neighborhood) was to be built along with the renovation/re-purposing of the plant. So basically, it would be almost impossible to get all that done. Still, I'm sad because I really like this building and I'll hate seeing it go.
January 28, 20169 yr Only way this could have been redeveloped is if the Shoreway was redirected southward next to the tracks Or if it was actually a boulevard. Maybe our great grandchildren will casually stroll along it.
January 28, 20169 yr ^^If I do have a sadness, and there is a twinge of it, it's that another part of my childhood will soon be erased. In my mind's eye I see my family driving up classic old Liberty Boulevard (now MLK) with it's Cultural Gardens and Gothic-looking Rockefeller bridges and then, after the last (RR) bridge, coming to the sudden openness of the lake, then turning onto the ramp to the Shoreway, which had, and still has, a bit of excitement with the beautiful lake and Gordon Park, flying traffic, the steel arched pedestrian overhead walkway and downtown in the distance ... and then that building on the left; that gigantic fortress with its huge smokestacks and even a moat, almost like a castle, along with heavy-duty power lines like little suspension bridges, RR sidings with coal cars and everything else. There was a certain beauty to it-- Whereas many hipsters and out-of-towners see buildings like this as ugly, we never did. ... Part of growing up in an industrial city like Cleveland is you become accustomed factories ... everywhere. There so many that each has its own personality, and the power plant most certainly did.
January 28, 20169 yr There also was a steam locomotive that switched coal cars at the CEI plant long after steamers were retired by the mainline railroads in the 1950s. I remember seeing the steam locomotive parked between the plant and I-90 in the early 1970s, but I don't think it was used anymore by then. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 28, 20169 yr ^^If I do have a sadness, and there is a twinge of it, it's that another part of my childhood will soon be erased. In my mind's eye I see my family driving up classic old Liberty Boulevard (now MLK) with it's Cultural Gardens and Gothic-looking Rockefeller bridges and then, after the last (RR) bridge, coming to the sudden openness of the lake, then turning onto the ramp to the Shoreway, which had, and still has, a bit of excitement with the beautiful lake and Gordon Park, flying traffic, the steel arched pedestrian overhead walkway and downtown in the distance ... and then that building on the left; that gigantic fortress with its huge smokestacks and even a moat, almost like a castle, along with heavy-duty power lines like little suspension bridges, RR sidings with coal cars and everything else. There was a certain beauty to it-- Whereas many hipsters and out-of-towners see buildings like this as ugly, we never did. ... Part of growing up in an industrial city like Cleveland is you become accustomed factories ... everywhere. There so many that each has its own personality, and the power plant most certainly did. I have a similar nostalgic feelings about the old cold storage facility that used to be next to I-90 near Tremont. For some reason, as a kid I always enjoyed looking at that building with the giant signs painted on its side. :-D
January 28, 20169 yr ^^If I do have a sadness, and there is a twinge of it, it's that another part of my childhood will soon be erased. In my mind's eye I see my family driving up classic old Liberty Boulevard (now MLK) with it's Cultural Gardens and Gothic-looking Rockefeller bridges and then, after the last (RR) bridge, coming to the sudden openness of the lake, then turning onto the ramp to the Shoreway, which had, and still has, a bit of excitement with the beautiful lake and Gordon Park, flying traffic, the steel arched pedestrian overhead walkway and downtown in the distance ... and then that building on the left; that gigantic fortress with its huge smokestacks and even a moat, almost like a castle, along with heavy-duty power lines like little suspension bridges, RR sidings with coal cars and everything else. There was a certain beauty to it-- Whereas many hipsters and out-of-towners see buildings like this as ugly, we never did. ... Part of growing up in an industrial city like Cleveland is you become accustomed factories ... everywhere. There so many that each has its own personality, and the power plant most certainly did. Hell yeah to this.
January 29, 20169 yr not sure if this has been discussed here [pardon ignorance, new to this forum], but what is going on at Burke Lakefront Airport with the new construction? Is this a new terminal that will replace the old? Something to do with the North Coast Harbor redevelopment? A new passenger terminal will certainly help BKL as they look to expand commercial service IMO. I have not been in the old terminal in years, so not sure what to think here...
January 29, 20169 yr not sure if this has been discussed here [pardon ignorance, new to this forum], but what is going on at Burke Lakefront Airport with the new construction? Is this a new terminal that will replace the old? Something to do with the North Coast Harbor redevelopment? A new passenger terminal will certainly help BKL as they look to expand commercial service IMO. I have not been in the old terminal in years, so not sure what to think here... Welcome to the forum, Riverbender! Just to let you know, we also have a thread dedicated specifically to Burke Airport, which you might find helpful: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9545.245.html
January 29, 20169 yr ^welcome Riverbender. It's a new hanger and quarters for Landmark Aviation. They are expanding their footprint at Burke.
January 29, 20169 yr not sure if this has been discussed here [pardon ignorance, new to this forum], but what is going on at Burke Lakefront Airport with the new construction? Is this a new terminal that will replace the old? Something to do with the North Coast Harbor redevelopment? A new passenger terminal will certainly help BKL as they look to expand commercial service IMO. I have not been in the old terminal in years, so not sure what to think here... Welcome Riverbender. Cool name! Here's the skinny on Landmark Aviation's development... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9545.msg739532.html#msg739532 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 29, 20169 yr not sure if this has been discussed here [pardon ignorance, new to this forum], but what is going on at Burke Lakefront Airport with the new construction? Is this a new terminal that will replace the old? Something to do with the North Coast Harbor redevelopment? A new passenger terminal will certainly help BKL as they look to expand commercial service IMO. I have not been in the old terminal in years, so not sure what to think here... Welcome Riverbender. Cool name! Here's the skinny on Landmark Aviation's development... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9545.msg739532.html#msg739532 I cross posted in BKL thread--Landmark was recently sold to a competitor. Will operate under Signature Aviation. I'm glad their new FBO is not affected! http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/business/dealbook/bba-aviation-to-buy-landmark-aviation-for-2-1-billion.html?_r=0
February 2, 20169 yr Well this is a pleasant change of plans. What was proposed as a two-story building is now a 5-story building of apartments over retail/restaurant/offices. More graphics (including floor plans) at the link below... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/02052016/index.php City Planning Commission Agenda for February 5, 2016 DF2015-044 – North Coast Harbor Site 1B New Construction: Seeking Schematic Design Approval Project Location: Former Skate Park Site Project Representatives: Gary Ogrocki, Dimit Architects Matt Plecnik, Dimit Architects Richard Pace, Cumberland Development "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 20169 yr So that's not the branding they'll go with, right? A big 9 on their building? Because I think some people would have things to say about that. I like that plan. The parking is hidden well and the building has a nice feel to it and fits well into that spot. Dimit just seems to get it. Their buildings are that extra step that most modern mixed-use infill needs.
February 2, 20169 yr Well this is a pleasant change of plans. What was proposed as a two-story building is now a 5-story building of apartments over retail/restaurant/offices. More graphics (including floor plans) at the link below... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/02052016/index.php City Planning Commission Agenda for February 5, 2016 DF2015-044 – North Coast Harbor Site 1B New Construction: Seeking Schematic Design Approval Project Location: Former Skate Park Site Project Representatives: Gary Ogrocki, Dimit Architects Matt Plecnik, Dimit Architects Richard Pace, Cumberland Development Love it!
February 2, 20169 yr So that's not the branding they'll go with, right? A big 9 on their building? Because I think some people would have things to say about that. I like that plan. The parking is hidden well and the building has a nice feel to it and fits well into that spot. Dimit just seems to get it. Their buildings are that extra step that most modern mixed-use infill needs. It's on Pier 9, seems like they have a good case for it.
February 2, 20169 yr Hasn't it always been apartments over retail/office? It just gained two floors as earlier iterations had 3 total floors. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
February 2, 20169 yr Fourth floor office tenants have interior spiral stairs to rooftop terraces which is pretty cool. Plus there appears to be a rooftop bar at the north-west corner. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
February 2, 20169 yr Hasn't it always been apartments over retail/office? It just gained two floors as earlier iterations had 3 total floors. I remembered it being two stories tall. But you're right, it was three stories and described in site plans as "mixed use." But if this rendering below is instructive, it's apparent that residential wasn't a dominant part of the building's total square footage. The new structure clearly looks like an apartment building. This old version doesn't, at least to me.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 20169 yr The new version is really great... Very sleek. Love the balcony design. Can't wait to see this! I was driving down to the shoreway from E. 9th today noticing how there is such a divide created by the stretch of E. 9th and Lakeside all the way down to the pier. Hopefully this starts to bride that gap somewhat.
February 2, 20169 yr Looking good. My only concern, well two concerns actually are the black bit of wall space on the south side and I want to see more evidence that this new building will provide more pedestrian-level cohesion to the Harbor.
February 3, 20169 yr Some windy days ahead on that balcony! [emoji4] It adds to the excitement! [emoji12] I think it would be a cool place to live. Depending on how your balcony faced on that top floor it would be like being on a ship!
February 3, 20169 yr I like the design of the building, but talk about living in a fishbowl! The airshow views will be outstanding though.
February 3, 20169 yr Can't say enough about this project. Great architecture, fantastic location, and the beginning of what should (finally!) be a brand-new neighborhood on the lakefront. Hopefully, the pedestrian bridge over the Shoreway/railroad tracks doesn't get lost in the post-RNC shuffle because the bridge would be a badly needed connection between this project and the Mall/CBD.
February 3, 20169 yr Looks great; all good... Query: is the site they're currently clearing for construction of the mixed use building? If so, what's their timetable?
February 3, 20169 yr ^ Site A the Restaurant next to Voinovich Park is being prepared now. I don't see Site B breaking ground before the RNC.
February 7, 20169 yr Cleveland Rising: Lakefront development begins http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-rising-lakefront-development-begins/33439320 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20169 yr ^Airport hangers and chain link fences along the lakefront never fail to give me the warm & fuzzies.
February 8, 20169 yr ^Airport hangers and chain link fences along the lakefront never fail to give me the warm & fuzzies. I'll take BKL over concrete silos or bulk gravel piles. After all, it was constructed on reclaimed land. We are one of few major cities with an airport at the CBD. It's so Cleveland to wish it away, rather than try to use this as an economic tool for growth.
February 9, 20169 yr It's so Cleveland to wish it away, rather than try to use this as an economic tool for growth. Yeah, it's Cleveland's fault that some of us find the airport redundant and unnecessary and would rather see the land redeveloped.
February 9, 20169 yr Completely agree w/ Cleburger. We have Burke - its not going away no matter how much everyone complains. We should be using it to our advantage by attracting the corporations that would need easy airport access for daily commutes or the quick/efficient distribution of products. A company such as Fedex or UPS main distribution terminals would be perfect - especially for the industrial distribution of goods as it plays off Cleveland's existing manufacturing base and nearby port. Even Amazon type distribution centers come to mind that heavily rely on UPS/Fedex terminals. We are a perfect city for a large industrial distribution center with the port, nearby airport, railyards, easy highway access. These companies could completely take over Burke and put it to good use. You could even build off existing health care and try to attract pharmaceutical manufacturers/distribution centers that make critical drugs that needs delivered asap but I'm just spitballing at this point. As is, Burke is so flat and disconnected anyway. You cannot even see the water unless you're standing like 5 feet away. Land is not exactly at a premium either - I don't know who you expect to come in and be able to build something sustainable on that land without cannibalizing another neighborhood - and I only say cannibalizing because Burke is so massive.
February 9, 20169 yr None of the type of companies you're mentioning care one wit that Burke is a near Downtown airport. They all want sprawling one level distribution centers out in cornfields where they can buy acreage by the hundreds.
February 9, 20169 yr None of the type of companies you're mentioning care one wit that Burke is a near Downtown airport. They all want sprawling one level distribution centers out in cornfields where they can buy acreage by the hundreds. UPS's main air hub, Worldport, uses @ Louisville Int'l Airport & the Fedex's main air hub, Superhub, uses @ Memphis Int'l Airport. The point is these companies heavily use airports & we should attract companies like them (not necessarily UPS & Fedex in particular - but maybe an offshoot regional center, or another company entirely) and offer Burke for their operation. Maybe they don't care its near CBD but its also right next to the port, railyards, highways & a large manufacturing base. We have Burke & and its an asset - our leaders who are paid to formulate ideas & attract business need to view this as an asset.
February 9, 20169 yr Burke will never attract freight tenants - for this reason alone: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=38.16955,-85.73340&z=15&t=S That's Worldport in Louisville. It's bigger in acreage than most downtown and city centers, including Cleveland. Where do you propose putting Worldport (or even something smaller, like DHL at CVG: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.03107,-84.65496&z=17&t=S)? There is no available land to do so at Burke and Cuyahoga Municipal doesn't have the acreage remaining to support both of those tenants. You also need more than 6,000 feet in runway. Worldport uses SDF that has approximately 12,000 feet in runway and SDF is expanding that to 13,000 feet in runway to handle the next-generation cargo and passenger planes.
February 9, 20169 yr Completely agree w/ Cleburger. We have Burke - its not going away no matter how much everyone complains. We should be using it to our advantage by attracting the corporations that would need easy airport access for daily commutes or the quick/efficient distribution of products. I agree with you on economic development, maybe you should have left it at that... Burke and the port are not going anywhere, I think additional development around them is key...
February 9, 20169 yr ^And before we talk about theoretical developments on Burke's land, there is PLENTY of underutilized property all around the port and airport that can be developed first. If you want to create the demand to move Burke, develop the areas around it first to create the demand. That's what makes me excited about current developments on East 9th street pier, and future phases/developments near the stadium and near Burke.
February 9, 20169 yr Well this is a pleasant change of plans. What was proposed as a two-story building is now a 5-story building of apartments over retail/restaurant/offices. Wow, this building looks to be very close to the Rock Hall. Will it distract from it? I'd like to see more renderings of this in the same shot as the Rock Hall to see how they interact together.
February 9, 20169 yr If you are arriving from the south, as nearly everyone will, I would say no. The Rock Hall is taller and broader and will make the mixed use building tough to see. From the sides, it will look more significant as the mixed use building has a rectangular footprint with its long sides parallel to East 9th. From Voinovich Park, the new building may block out the Rock Hall, at least partially. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 9, 20169 yr I think the less isolated the Rock Hall is, the better. I've never been happy with the location they chose for it. Would have been different if this sort of surrounding development had been on the table in 1995. As for Burke, I think its value is more for business travelers than for freight, but that alone is a significant value for downtown. I'm in no hurry to get rid of it. Hypothetical high rises along Lakeside or St. Clair would benefit just as much from the lake as would any hypothetical Burke redevelopment. The value of the lake is not tactile, for the most part.
February 11, 20169 yr As for Burke, I think its value is more for business travelers than for freight, but that alone is a significant value for downtown. I'm in no hurry to get rid of it. Hypothetical high rises along Lakeside or St. Clair would benefit just as much from the lake as would any hypothetical Burke redevelopment. The value of the lake is not tactile, for the most part. Absolutely spot on. We have a growing medical and tech community. Keep it growing. Free landing fees for tech company jets. Expand the Clinic's reach with further air-ambulance service out of Burke, with a quick short ride to one of America's leading medical centers. Discounted landing fees for upstarts like Ultimate Air Shuttle, allowing quick and easy access for downtown residents to get to NYC, Chicago and beyond. There are many ways we can use it to our advantage until a developer comes knocking to build 30 towers along that stretch of shore....
February 11, 20169 yr As for Burke, I think its value is more for business travelers than for freight, but that alone is a significant value for downtown. I'm in no hurry to get rid of it. Hypothetical high rises along Lakeside or St. Clair would benefit just as much from the lake as would any hypothetical Burke redevelopment. The value of the lake is not tactile, for the most part. Absolutely spot on. We have a growing medical and tech community. Keep it growing. Free landing fees for tech company jets. Expand the Clinic's reach with further air-ambulance service out of Burke, with a quick short ride to one of America's leading medical centers. Discounted landing fees for upstarts like Ultimate Air Shuttle, allowing quick and easy access for downtown residents to get to NYC, Chicago and beyond. There are many ways we can use it to our advantage until a developer comes knocking to build 30 towers along that stretch of shore.... Exactly. One of the justifications for the OC is expediting the trip between Hopkins and CC. Burke is of course much closer.
February 12, 20169 yr I think that the new development at Voinovich Park will only enhance the Rock Hall - as iconic and sleek as the hall is - it looks so isolated and sometimes even lifeless over there - the more development around it the better. I agree with 327 that it was a poor location - but now that's it there love to see it have some modern company
February 12, 20169 yr Will someone just steal all the artificial plants in front of the Rock Hall? It might be the only way to get rid of them :)
February 16, 20169 yr Is waterfront development paying off? Nine takeaways from League of Women Voters panel By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer on February 15, 2016 at 11:12 AM, updated February 15, 2016 at 1:47 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio – Waterfront development is paying off so well for Cleveland and Cuyahoga County that the area should stop casting envious eyes at Chicago, Pittsburgh, Toronto and other waterfront cities, local leaders say. Even so, progress is slow, and benefits are spread unevenly between the East and West sides of the city... ...Roman said he'd still like to see the I-90 Shoreway flipped south of the 57-acre site of the soon-to-be-demolished FirstEnergy Lake Shore power plant. "If you moved it south and tucked it up against the railroad line, you would create immense new areas of property along our lakefront for development," he said.... http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2016/02/is_waterfront_development_payi.html
February 16, 20169 yr ^ This suggestion is my fave: Stop badmouthing Cleveland: "We're doing really great things in Cleveland," Zimmerman said. "We have to start telling that story more and more often. Too often we're our own worst critics. We have to get over that. We're moving forward. Things are happening and are actually getting done."
March 1, 20169 yr THANK GOD! The end of the plastic shrubs! "Rock Hall plans lively shakeup of its plaza, entry experience" http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2016/03/rock_hall_plans_lively_shakeup.html#incart_river_home
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