New video from NAI Daus about lakefront development:

 

Dick Pace spoke recently about lakefront development at a Young Professionals week networking event. One interesting tidbit was that he has expanded the SF of the office component of the project to 450-500k SF for a corporate HQ. He didn't divulge names of course but stated that he has a few corporations interested and hoped to have an announcement by the end of the year. Of the corporations interested, he said one was already downtown, and a couple were in the NEO region. In addition, he is talking to out of state companies.

Hmmm....so he's going from 80k SF to 450-500k? Wonder if that will reduce the 1000-1250 apartments? Only five months til the end of the year :/

To me, that indicates he may have landed Medical Mutual?? That's such a large increase in office space that MM is really the only candidate. We know Sherwin will stay up the hill closer to Public Square. That's pretty much a given at this point.

Dick Pace spoke recently about lakefront development at a Young Professionals week networking event. One interesting tidbit was that he has expanded the SF of the office component of the project to 450-500k SF for a corporate HQ. He didn't divulge names of course but stated that he has a few corporations interested and hoped to have an announcement by the end of the year.

 

This is supposed to be a 3 phase project. Does anyone think they can fit a 500k SF building in the Phase 1 area?

 

Reminder

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/06/cleveland_lakefront_constructi.html

 

[edit] I just noticed Phase 1 includes the area immediately west of the William G. Mather. Maybe that's enough space?

The big office users in play are:

 

> Sherwin Williams (800,000-1 million sf)

> Medical Mutual (380,000-500,000 sf)

> Forest City Enterprises (110,000-250,000 sf)

> TransDigm (NA--began in 1993 and ranked as one of the fastest growing companies in the USA *before* it acquired Data Device Corp. last month for $1 billion. I don't know their HQ staffing or square footage, but their HQ is in Erieview Tower and a portion of that aging tower is transitioning to residential. If they want to continue to grow, it probably won't be at Erieview).

 

EDIT: TransDigm's total workforce before the Data Device acquisition was 5,400. Data Device has 600 employees, most of which are at their Long Island HQ/lab. What is a typical total workforce-to-HQ staff ratio? TransDigm is primarily a defense contractor, and I think they would eventually want their own building in a secure location such as on the lakefront where site access can be better controlled.

The big office users in play are:

 

> Sherwin Williams (800,000-1 million sf)

> Medical Mutual (380,000-500,000 sf)

> Forest City Enterprises (110,000-250,000 sf)

> TransDigm (NA--began in 1993 and ranked as one of the fastest growing companies in the USA *before* it acquired Data Device Corp. last month for $1 billion. I don't know their HQ staffing or square footage, but their HQ is in Erieview Tower and a portion of that aging tower is transitioning to residential. If they want to continue to grow, it probably won't be at Erieview).

 

EDIT: TransDigm's total workforce before the Data Device acquisition was 5,400. What is a typical total workforce-to-HQ staff ratio? TransDigm is primarily a defense contractor, and I think they would eventually want their own building in a secure location such as on the lakefront where site access can be better controlled.

 

I would think they would need a technically advanced building vis a vis both bandwidth and security, and there's a limit to how much an older structure like Erieview can be upgraded in that regard, without being gutted. 

 

But how secure is a lakefront location, especially when said lake is an international boundary?  Do we want a "secure zone" in the lake?

 

Dick Pace spoke recently about lakefront development at a Young Professionals week networking event. One interesting tidbit was that he has expanded the SF of the office component of the project to 450-500k SF for a corporate HQ. He didn't divulge names of course but stated that he has a few corporations interested and hoped to have an announcement by the end of the year.

 

This is supposed to be a 3 phase project. Does anyone think they can fit a 500k SF building in the Phase 1 area?

 

Reminder

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/06/cleveland_lakefront_constructi.html

 

[edit] I just noticed Phase 1 includes the area immediately west of the William G. Mather. Maybe that's enough space?

 

Well this is like huge news if it comes to be.  Looking at the site plan though where would 500k sq ft go when you consider height restrictioms due to BLK.  Are we looking at a FEB type building but maybe capped out at about 14 floors? Aren't the height restrictions at 175 ft or so?  I am not sure I like a building of that size there. It would have to be just west of the  Mather as Surf points out.  Does Pace control the space on top of the GLSC garage,  maybe it could go there. This is definitely a surprise.

Just a couple of shots from Instagram.  They claim a July opening, but with 3wks before the RNC that doesn't seem possible. Maybe limited service at best or it might be ready as an event space.

Looks possible to me.

Looks possible to me.

 

Agreed. This project is moving very quickly. If they can make the same progress in the next two weeks as they did in the previous two weeks, then I think it's very doable.

Yes it's going to be close, must be doing training and hiring behind the scene. Here is one more from Twitter.

Also new fancy parking meters at the pier lot.

I would imagine training can be easily done in Akron. I'm going to pop into there tomorrow after the Lock 4 concert to see what's up.

Also the speculated project for Transdigm would likely be the phase 2 area. That is way too big for the sliver left on E9 pier.  Also, just because it is a military contractor doesn't mean they need uber-security. That said they probably want their own building. Will that be enough to allow for mix use in what is to be a mix use area?  Or will they want no street interaction, so what would be the point of going to that location?

:?

 

Underwhelming Plan B design for North Coast Harbor drawbridge needs work -- Steven Litt (photos)

 

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

on July 05, 2016 at 11:35 AM, updated July 05, 2016 at 12:23 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Say goodbye to the iconic drawbridge for pedestrians and bicyclists designed for North Coast Harbor by Boston architect Miguel Rosales.

 

After years of federal and state review, the city has nixed the Rosales design in favor of a cheaper and duller Plan B version offered by the engineering firm CDM Smith, which originally partnered with Rosales on the drawbridge.

 

Ken Silliman, Mayor Frank Jackson's chief of staff, said Friday in an interview that the Ohio Department of Transportation, which is overseeing the project, rejected the Rosales proposal as unbuildable after determining several months ago that it would have required too many foreign-made parts.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2016/07/city_nixes_iconic_drawbridge_p.html#incart_river_home

:?

 

Underwhelming Plan B design for North Coast Harbor drawbridge needs work -- Steven Litt (photos)

 

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

on July 05, 2016 at 11:35 AM, updated July 05, 2016 at 12:23 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Say goodbye to the iconic drawbridge for pedestrians and bicyclists designed for North Coast Harbor by Boston architect Miguel Rosales.

 

After years of federal and state review, the city has nixed the Rosales design in favor of a cheaper and duller Plan B version offered by the engineering firm CDM Smith, which originally partnered with Rosales on the drawbridge.

 

Ken Silliman, Mayor Frank Jackson's chief of staff, said Friday in an interview that the Ohio Department of Transportation, which is overseeing the project, rejected the Rosales proposal as unbuildable after determining several months ago that it would have required too many foreign-made parts.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2016/07/city_nixes_iconic_drawbridge_p.html#incart_river_home

 

This is ridiculous.

 

Wonder what's going to happen to the lakefront ped bridge from Mall C to North Coast Harbor?  That delayed opening was supposed to be in 2017.  No sign of any progress on that and that bridge really needs to be built.

^ The end of that article says the city and county are still "fully committed" to the project (mall to north coast harbor pedestrian bridge) and it is still raising funds...but we'll see if that design gets altered or not

Too many foreign made parts? Is that even enforceable?

Too many foreign made parts? Is that even enforceable?

Yes if you have to follow that "made in america" guideline for the funding.

Scrap it!  This bridge really doesn't cut much off of circulation patterns anyway.  There are far better uses for this money.

Scrap it!  This bridge really doesn't cut much off of circulation patterns anyway.  There are far better uses for this money.

Maybe the money for this bridge can be put towards the money for the Mall C - Lakefront bridge.

Too many foreign made parts? Is that even enforceable?

Aren't Government cars typically Ford or Chevy? How many of the parts are actually made in America?

You'd be surprised at how little some cars are "American" - by the "big three" automakers: https://www.cars.com/articles/the-2016-carscom-american-made-index-1420684865874/

Scrap it!  This bridge really doesn't cut much off of circulation patterns anyway.  There are far better uses for this money.

 

Yep, I'd rather scrap it than have this clunky thing and, as you state, it doesn't cut much off of circulation patterns.

Too many foreign made parts? Is that even enforceable?

Yes if you have to follow that "made in america" guideline for the funding.

 

The U.S. doesn't even make parts for this little pedestrian bridge...lol....we are in bad shape.

If the U.S. cannot manufacture these parts are only available in foreign countries than the Buy America rule shouldn't apply. It should only apply if the same option is available within The States.  I am saddened The City and ODOT make the assumption they won't be able to get a variance without even attempting to communicate with USDOT.

Protectionism, ain't it great!?

If the U.S. cannot manufacture these parts are only available in foreign countries than the Buy America rule shouldn't apply. It should only apply if the same option is available within The States.  I am saddened The City and ODOT make the assumption they won't be able to get a variance without even attempting to communicate with USDOT.

 

...and when you look around the former great U.S. industrial cities (Cleveland) and see the abandonment, decline and rot in these manufacturing centers...and we can't get the parts in the U.S. for this tiny pedestrian bridge and now we can't build it in the harbor?

 

Something is seriously wrong here.

If the U.S. cannot manufacture these parts are only available in foreign countries than the Buy America rule shouldn't apply. It should only apply if the same option is available within The States.  I am saddened The City and ODOT make the assumption they won't be able to get a variance without even attempting to communicate with USDOT.

 

...and when you look around the former great U.S. industrial cities (Cleveland) and see the abandonment, decline and rot in these manufacturing centers...and we can't get the parts in the U.S. for this tiny pedestrian bridge and now we can't build it in the harbor?

 

Something is seriously wrong here.

 

Totally agree

The Nuevo restaurant at North Coast Harbor was officially dedicated this morning. Not often that a restaurant opening gets an official dedication from the city...

 

That's got to be the fastest shovels-to-opening of a substantial, free standing restaurant I've ever seen.

That's got to be the fastest shovels-to-opening of a substantial, free standing restaurant I've ever seen.

 

How long was it?    I've seen McDonald's go from beginning (complete) teardown to opening new one in about 90 days. 

^He said "substantial."

Five months ago:

 

Work is well underway

 

 

And I posted this picture I shot on a 65-degree Dec. 23.

Outlet developer pursues downtown Cleveland site, near Burke Lakefront Airport (photos)

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – An outlet-mall developer has its eye on lakefront land in downtown Cleveland, near Burke Lakefront Airport and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

Horizon Group Properties, Inc., is floating plans for a 350,000-square-foot, multi-story retail center on a city-owned parking lot south and west of Burke. The Geis Cos. of Streetsboro has been marketing the 20-acre site for the past few years, as part of a broader public-private push to remake the downtown lakefront with new buildings, attractions and public spaces.

 

Home to roughly 14,000 residents and close to 100,000 workers, downtown Cleveland is once again on retailers' radar after decades of shopping stagnation. Recent additions, from the Heinen's grocery store on East Ninth Street to local furniture and outdoor-goods purveyors, cater to the center city's growing residential population. Those stores aren't necessarily going to lure shoppers from the suburbs.

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/outlet_developer_pursues_downt.html#incart_m-rpt-1

What a crappy location for such a monstrosity.  Prime lakefront land for this, really? 

Outlet developer pursues downtown Cleveland site, near Burke Lakefront Airport (photos)

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/outlet_developer_pursues_downt.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

These massings have me genuinely worried.

 

The Lakefront is a very limited and vitally important asset. It's special. It deserves nothing short of excellent architecture and thoughtful planning.

 

Is anyone here confident that the city will be managing this process the right way?

Outlet developer pursues downtown Cleveland site, near Burke Lakefront Airport (photos)

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – An outlet-mall developer has its eye on lakefront land in downtown Cleveland, near Burke Lakefront Airport and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

Horizon Group Properties, Inc., is floating plans for a 350,000-square-foot, multi-story retail center on a city-owned parking lot south and west of Burke. The Geis Cos. of Streetsboro has been marketing the 20-acre site for the past few years, as part of a broader public-private push to remake the downtown lakefront with new buildings, attractions and public spaces.

 

Home to roughly 14,000 residents and close to 100,000 workers, downtown Cleveland is once again on retailers' radar after decades of shopping stagnation. Recent additions, from the Heinen's grocery store on East Ninth Street to local furniture and outdoor-goods purveyors, cater to the center city's growing residential population. Those stores aren't necessarily going to lure shoppers from the suburbs.

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/outlet_developer_pursues_downt.html#incart_m-rpt-1

I don't mind it, more retail is always welcome and people have been saying turn Tower City into an outlet mall anyway. That being said, the location is not the first I think about when I picture shopping. Yes it is by the lakefront but to be directly next to a freeway is kind of odd. This being an outlet mall though I guess it is a different animal and being by a freeway is the goal of these anyway. In the end it's all about design, it's already planned to be built up to the street so that's cool but it needs to as Dick Pace said "fit in with the rest of the plans" for the lakefront and not look like an anomaly. It looks compact so it seems to have an urban minded layout which is good and being built in an area where low-mid rise buildings will be going should cause it to fit in properly. If built this could be the first step to an increase in healthy retail shopping in Cleveland. I wonder the effect this could have on Tower City center though and whether it would be good or bad. Either way, I'm excited and cautiously optimistic.

What a crappy location for such a monstrosity.  Prime lakefront land for this, really? 

 

This is not prime lakefront land. This is on a parking lot hidden behind other buildings. This land was being marketed for office use. It's not as if this is being built on the water.

Parking on the lower levels and an indoor mall on the upper levels. I wouldn't expect it to offer much in the way of sidewalk activity or spin off development.

What a crappy location for such a monstrosity.  Prime lakefront land for this, really? 

 

This is not prime lakefront land. This is on a parking lot hidden behind other buildings. This land was being marketed for office use. It's not as if this is being built on the water.

 

And right next to an airport.

Outlet developer pursues downtown Cleveland site, near Burke Lakefront Airport (photos)

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – An outlet-mall developer has its eye on lakefront land in downtown Cleveland, near Burke Lakefront Airport and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

Horizon Group Properties, Inc., is floating plans for a 350,000-square-foot, multi-story retail center on a city-owned parking lot south and west of Burke. The Geis Cos. of Streetsboro has been marketing the 20-acre site for the past few years, as part of a broader public-private push to remake the downtown lakefront with new buildings, attractions and public spaces.

 

Home to roughly 14,000 residents and close to 100,000 workers, downtown Cleveland is once again on retailers' radar after decades of shopping stagnation. Recent additions, from the Heinen's grocery store on East Ninth Street to local furniture and outdoor-goods purveyors, cater to the center city's growing residential population. Those stores aren't necessarily going to lure shoppers from the suburbs.

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/outlet_developer_pursues_downt.html#incart_m-rpt-1

If built this could be the first step to an increase in healthy retail shopping in Cleveland.

 

It could also saturate it for years to come.  Tower City has transit lines inside of it, an enormous office complex above it, and plenty of residential within walking distance around it, and retailers still are shying away from and/or moving out of it.  Attracting retailers to parking lots like nucleus and PS should be first and foremost, not next to the airport that no one can walk to.  This seems very 90's to me...

 

I would have loved to see this on the Steelyard Site than what is currently there however. 

Outlet developer pursues downtown Cleveland site, near Burke Lakefront Airport (photos)

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – An outlet-mall developer has its eye on lakefront land in downtown Cleveland, near Burke Lakefront Airport and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

Horizon Group Properties, Inc., is floating plans for a 350,000-square-foot, multi-story retail center on a city-owned parking lot south and west of Burke. The Geis Cos. of Streetsboro has been marketing the 20-acre site for the past few years, as part of a broader public-private push to remake the downtown lakefront with new buildings, attractions and public spaces.

 

Home to roughly 14,000 residents and close to 100,000 workers, downtown Cleveland is once again on retailers' radar after decades of shopping stagnation. Recent additions, from the Heinen's grocery store on East Ninth Street to local furniture and outdoor-goods purveyors, cater to the center city's growing residential population. Those stores aren't necessarily going to lure shoppers from the suburbs.

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/07/outlet_developer_pursues_downt.html#incart_m-rpt-1

If built this could be the first step to an increase in healthy retail shopping in Cleveland.

 

It could also saturate it for years to come.  Tower City has transit lines inside of it, an enormous office complex above it, and plenty of residential within walking distance around it, and retailers still are shying away from and/or moving out of it.  Attracting retailers to parking lots like nucleus and PS should be first and foremost, not next to the airport that no one can walk to.  This seems very 90's to me...

 

I would have loved to see this on the Steelyard Site than what is currently there however.

Yes I agree with the location and the effect it could have which is why I mentioned it as well. As I said though since this is an outlet it seems  like that being by freeways are the goal of these outlets. To be fair you can catch the waterfront line to the North Coast Harbor station and walk down which isn't too far.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

These are the Duty Free shops for the departing passengers at Burke.

Too much retail in the Cleveland metro already. Now another 350k? I know the office market is still difficult but Ken's stats have shown repeatedly that retail is way past the saturation point.

While traditional malls and upscale centers are either stagnating or declining (something predicted in Shopping Centers Today trade magazine several years ago), premium outlet malls are booming. Traditional outlet centers, with "mistake" apparel and old-brand clothes (think Lee), have stagnated for years.

 

I've seen some successful indoor outlet malls, namely in dense urban areas in New Jersey and Chicago. I've also seen several failing examples, some that were converts from former Mill mall sites.

 

I think in terms of retail, Cleveland is tapped out for traditional centers. Richmond is fast declining; Severance is long gone; Euclid is practically abandoned; Randall Park is demolished; the outlet mall proposal in Garfield Heights is dead; Crocker Park is booming; Legacy Village is booming; Tower City and Galleria are dead or dying. Am I missing any others?

While traditional malls and upscale centers are either stagnating or declining (something predicted in Shopping Centers Today trade magazine several years ago), premium outlet malls are booming. Traditional outlet centers, with "mistake" apparel and old-brand clothes (think Lee), have stagnated for years.

 

I've seen some successful indoor outlet malls, namely in dense urban areas in New Jersey and Chicago. I've also seen several failing examples, some that were converts from former Mill mall sites.

 

I think in terms of retail, Cleveland is tapped out for traditional centers. Richmond is fast declining; Severance is long gone; Euclid is practically abandoned; Randall Park is demolished; the outlet mall proposal in Garfield Heights is dead; Crocker Park is booming; Legacy Village is booming; Tower City and Galleria are dead or dying. Am I missing any others?

 

Parmatown was converted into the Shoppes of Parma or whatever. At least the conversion reduced the retail footprint in the process. Ridge Park is actually doing OK.

 

Looked up Horizons' existing outlets -- GNC, Gap Outlet, Nike Outlet, Carl's Jr., Costco. Nothing really upscale. This will be bringing the excitement of Lodi right to the edge of downtown Cleveland! :)

Yes I agree with the location and the effect it could have which is why I mentioned it as well. As I said though since this is an outlet it seems  like that being by freeways are the goal of these outlets. To be fair you can catch the waterfront line to the North Coast Harbor station and walk down which isn't too far.

 

It's a 2,200-foot walk in sideways weather (from November to April) from the North Coast station to this development.

 

If Geis built an enclosed walkway over the Shoreway and then a covered, 7.5% gradient ramp south of it, it would be a pleasant, year-round, 400-foot walk to the South Harbor station.

While traditional malls and upscale centers are either stagnating or declining (something predicted in Shopping Centers Today trade magazine several years ago), premium outlet malls are booming. Traditional outlet centers, with "mistake" apparel and old-brand clothes (think Lee), have stagnated for years.

 

I've seen some successful indoor outlet malls, namely in dense urban areas in New Jersey and Chicago. I've also seen several failing examples, some that were converts from former Mill mall sites.

 

I think in terms of retail, Cleveland is tapped out for traditional centers. Richmond is fast declining; Severance is long gone; Euclid is practically abandoned; Randall Park is demolished; the outlet mall proposal in Garfield Heights is dead; Crocker Park is booming; Legacy Village is booming; Tower City and Galleria are dead or dying. Am I missing any others?

Beachwood Mall and Strongsville

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

While traditional malls and upscale centers are either stagnating or declining (something predicted in Shopping Centers Today trade magazine several years ago), premium outlet malls are booming. Traditional outlet centers, with "mistake" apparel and old-brand clothes (think Lee), have stagnated for years.

 

I've seen some successful indoor outlet malls, namely in dense urban areas in New Jersey and Chicago. I've also seen several failing examples, some that were converts from former Mill mall sites.

 

I think in terms of retail, Cleveland is tapped out for traditional centers. Richmond is fast declining; Severance is long gone; Euclid is practically abandoned; Randall Park is demolished; the outlet mall proposal in Garfield Heights is dead; Crocker Park is booming; Legacy Village is booming; Tower City and Galleria are dead or dying. Am I missing any others?

Great Lakes, South Park, Great Northern, and West Gate. I think WG has been converted? This seems like an odd location. It seems like TC would be a prime location for outlets, not sure why it never happened.