August 16, 20168 yr Crain's editorial: Don’t settle August 14, 2016 UPDATED 3 DAYS AGO There are dumb ideas, and there are abhorrent ideas. Building an outlet mall — a big, bulky box lacking any character whatsoever — on a prime piece of lakefront real estate in downtown Cleveland falls into the latter bucket. Nevertheless, it’s an idea being tossed around by Horizon Group Properties, a Michigan-based developer — and it appears to have some local support. We could dissect what’s wrong with this concept at length (the design, the utility, the optics of having a discount shopping center straddling our region’s greatest asset). However, what’s even more problematic is that the idea, as first reported by The Plain Dealer, has yet to be soundly rejected by our local leaders. The outlet mall proposal, though, is illustrative of a larger issue: for too long, local leaders and even some developers have come off as so desperate for outside investment that even the silliest of ideas gain some traction. But given the city’s recent momentum, it should be negotiating from a position of strength, not desperation. Cleveland, with a dash of unhelpfulness from the state and other bureaucratic bodies, has a knack for watering down projects ripe with potential. MORE: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160814/VOICES01/160819928/crains-editorial-dont-settle "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 16, 20168 yr There is no way the city should allow for this enclosed, warehouse looking mall on some of the best real estate in the Midwest especially when you consider both the Galleria and the Avenue have trouble finding enough discount stores to fill their spaces. None of these stores would likely even entertain being in the Galleria or The Avenue. That's just not a realistic expectation. It's one thing to say that it should be designed better to fit on the lake front. That's fair. But if you're rejecting this out of hand, you're basically saying you don't want retail and economic activity from this in the city limits. It ain't gonna happen at the Galleria or The Avenue. It's just not. I vote to make it better but I want the economic activity here. I want the taxes here. I want the jobs here. I don't want this going to the suburbs. I am with you in regards to it being located in the city. It seems that someone is going to build an outlet mall somewhere in the Cleveland area so it might as well be in the city preferably downtown. Bring the taxes / jobs / visitors downtown in hope that they will stay and visit other venues in the city. These are preliminary renderings let's see what comes next. Any other development around BKL is probably years away. If they can be smart about it and tie it in to the WFL somehow and create a connection to NCH I think we have to consider it. You're absolutely right. It's clear this is going to get built regardless so why not here? At least consider it. The snobby rejection of it out of hand really bothers me, especially considering the kind of jobs that this can create for the many, many people in our community who aren't working at the tech places or in the health care industry or at a trendy bar. And if done properly, this could bring in a lot of people to shop who otherwise would never have any reason to come into the city to shop? With our retail landscape, most people have their retail needs served very closely to their home. And outlet mall is one of the only ways to get those people to come into the city and spend their money. This will bring us more tax dollars which will allow us to do more for the people on the lower end of the ladder in the city, the people who aren't participating in Cleveland's new economy. That's one of the reasons I'm so passionately for this. Everything can't be super upscale, high end, only the big boys and girls can afford to be here. What about something for regular people? And again, I'm not saying that this can't be improved. I would prefer a Legacy Village style development, for example. (Just because it's not upscale doesn't mean it has to look cheap). I also want an adequate amount of restaurants here so that it's not a complete dead zone at night. But I think that overall, this development could be very good for the city, particularly to attract people to shop and work, people that unfortunately get ignored too often around here. That's just my 2 ¢
September 10, 20168 yr I thought the bridge was fully funded. Guess not... Latest on the CLE lakefront pedestrian bridge Tom Beres, WKYC Sept. 9 CLEVELAND - It was once on the list of projects to get done in time for the Republican National Convention that also included remaking Public Square, improving Cleveland Hopkins Airport and building a new convention center hotel.... $25 million of funding from the city, Cuyahoga County and the State of Ohio is in the bank. But the project's "guesstimated" cost is more like $33 million, leaving an $8 million gap. MORE: http://www.wkyc.com/mb/news/local/cleveland/latest-on-the-cle-lakefront-pedestrian-bridge/316111266 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 11, 20168 yr $25-$33 million for a pedestrian bridge? We're sorry, the correct answer was blight abatement. Blight abatement. Neighborhood business development would also have been acceptable.
September 11, 20168 yr $25-$33 million for a pedestrian bridge? We're sorry, the correct answer was blight abatement. Blight abatement. Neighborhood business development would also have been acceptable. Horrible idea. Put that money in a fund towards the multi-modal transit center with a bridge over the top of it.
September 11, 20168 yr $25-$33 million for a pedestrian bridge? We're sorry, the correct answer was blight abatement. Blight abatement. Neighborhood business development would also have been acceptable. Horrible idea. Put that money in a fund towards the multi-modal transit center with a bridge over the top of it. This bridge is part of the plans of the multi-modal transit center.
September 11, 20168 yr ^ Is that still true? KJP, what's the latest with Greyhound et al., and the quest for multi-modal? Is there a latest?
September 11, 20168 yr The bridge is a project of independent utility. Its design was modified slightly to include a mid-bridge access point (elevator and stairwell) to the multimodal station below. However, considering that the TIGER grant for the multimodal station wasn't awarded in August (hopefully the city will reapply--no word yet if it will), and that there aren't yet enough funds to build the bridge, I would think one of the first features to be "value-engineered" out will be the mid-bridge access point. I'm further hoping that the bridge's design will allow for the multimodal station access point to be added at a later date. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 11, 20168 yr $25-$33 million for a pedestrian bridge? We're sorry, the correct answer was blight abatement. Blight abatement. Neighborhood business development would also have been acceptable. Horrible idea. Put that money in a fund towards the multi-modal transit center with a bridge over the top of it. That common sense approach would require a degree of coordination that's just not going to happen.
September 11, 20168 yr I felt all along that it was silly poor planning not to link these projects from the beginning. I thought this should also have included access directly to the convention center which was in the planning to be rebuilt around the time both the NCTC and bridge were being discussed.
September 12, 20168 yr $25-$33 million for a pedestrian bridge? We're sorry, the correct answer was blight abatement. Blight abatement. Neighborhood business development would also have been acceptable. I always love when money for one project is suggested (demanded) to be used for another project, as if that money was going to be available no matter what for whatever the city decided to spend it on. Don't get me wrong, what you said is something that's needed. But what is the guarantee that this money would've even been available for that?
September 12, 20168 yr Moreover, the multimodal station is projected to cost $46 million. The city has put no money of its own into it -- only in-kind property contributions. The only funding commitments for that project were from Amtrak and Greyhound. Even if the city and county could be convinced to reprogram their bridge funding contributions to the station, the state and other funders provided their funds for a bridge. And you couldn't even build a multimodal station with the bridge money and what Amtrak/Greyhound committed, let alone a station+bridge. If you want to put the bridge funding into the collection plate for the multimodal station, fine. But don't expect a ground-breaking ceremony the next day. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 12, 20168 yr $25-$33 million for a pedestrian bridge? We're sorry, the correct answer was blight abatement. Blight abatement. Neighborhood business development would also have been acceptable. I always love when money for one project is suggested (demanded) to be used for another project, as if that money was going to be available no matter what for whatever the city decided to spend it on. Don't get me wrong, what you said is something that's needed. But what is the guarantee that this money would've even been available for that? The city and county aspects are under local control. State money is only going to come for requested purposes, so local powers hold a gatekeeping function there as well. Cleveland has neighborhoods on or near the lake and they've all seen better days. I'd love to build a multi-modal transit center but barring that we're probably better off investing in what we already have, given the current condition of those assets. It will take a very long time for this bridge to pay itself off in terms of growth and tax base improvement.
September 30, 20168 yr http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/09/cleveland_metroparks_to_replac.html
September 30, 20168 yr http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/09/cleveland_metroparks_to_replac.html Impressive.
September 30, 20168 yr Nice. It looked pretty dumpy down there but I had no idea the pier had been demolished years ago. I can't wait for the improvements! The rest of Euclid Creek Reservation is fantastic, although the creek gets pretty trashy in some areas. It's fantastic to creek walk and discover several (hidden) waterfalls.
September 30, 20168 yr Nice. It looked pretty dumpy down there but I had no idea the pier had been demolished years ago. I can't wait for the improvements! The rest of Euclid Creek Reservation is fantastic, although the creek gets pretty trashy in some areas. It's fantastic to creek walk and discover several (hidden) waterfalls. The Euclid Creek Reservation was a nice surprise once I discovered it after moving back. It makes a picturesque cut through from the Hts. Taking cool Belvoir road and cutting over to the southern terminus of the Euclid Creek Parkway is a neat drive.
September 30, 20168 yr ^Belvoir BLVD :speech:. But, yes, I love winding down either Belvoir or Metro Park Dr. on my way to the Shoreway. But my favorite might be riding my bike through the park on Memorial Day, July 4th, or any other day when the cookouts are in full swing. The smell....
October 2, 20168 yr Nice. It looked pretty dumpy down there but I had no idea the pier had been demolished years ago. I can't wait for the improvements! The rest of Euclid Creek Reservation is fantastic, although the creek gets pretty trashy in some areas. It's fantastic to creek walk and discover several (hidden) waterfalls. The old pier is still there in part, it ends basically at the shoreline. The new one is going to be off to the east.
October 9, 20168 yr Lots of info, very in-depth piece from Cleveland Mag. ON THE WATERFRONT http://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the-cle/the-read/articles/the-lakefront
November 7, 20168 yr I will be interested to see of these letters activate the plaza. It appears Cleveland is enjoying these oversized letters as public art. They do appear to invite great photo opportunities and interaction.
November 7, 20168 yr ^This has been a global trend it seems for years now. I kind of dig the big block letters. It's a great photo opportunity and people really seem to like them, so why not?
November 8, 20168 yr I think it will liven things up. The "Cleveland" script signs are amazingly popular. I did some photography for a coworker at Edgewater a few Saturdays ago and was amazed at the LINE of people waiting to take their pictures by the sign all morning.
November 8, 20168 yr Have you see Beachwood's script logo at their interchanges for I-271? It's on two sticks and its extremely small. Go pose!
November 8, 20168 yr Have you see Beachwood's script logo at their interchanges for I-271? It's on two sticks and its extremely small. Go pose! Yeah. They surrounded them with mums so you will notice them.
November 9, 20168 yr I think it will liven things up. The "Cleveland" script signs are amazingly popular. I did some photography for a coworker at Edgewater a few Saturdays ago and was amazed at the LINE of people waiting to take their pictures by the sign all morning. I run @Cle_News on Instagram, feel free to shoot me over some pics whenever
November 9, 20168 yr I think it will liven things up. The "Cleveland" script signs are amazingly popular. I did some photography for a coworker at Edgewater a few Saturdays ago and was amazed at the LINE of people waiting to take their pictures by the sign all morning. I run @Cle_News on Instagram, feel free to shoot me over some pics whenever I shot you some pics before lol
November 9, 20168 yr Have you see Beachwood's script logo at their interchanges for I-271? It's on two sticks and its extremely small. Go pose! Yeah. They surrounded them with mums so you will notice them. All of the power lines in the background make it even more inviting
November 12, 20168 yr I was at the Rock Hall today, and the sign appears to be very popular. People (including some gray-haired couples) were climbing up on top of the letters for photos, peering through, etc. It was a brisk (40's) but sunny day and a lot of people were lingering outside.
November 29, 20168 yr Pedestrian Bridge News. They have 25 milliom committed. http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/plans-still-slowly-moving-forward-for-downtown-pedestrian-bridge-to-clevelands-lakefront
November 29, 20168 yr I'm intrigued by the funding. Of the money pledged by The State $3.5 million was reallocated to fund the inflated costs of Public Square to complete that project in time for The RNC. This amount should be deducted from the available funds for the pedestrian bridge
December 5, 20168 yr Good stuff happening with our neighbor to the east.... How Buffalo Got Its Waterfront Back River restoration is influencing the city’s economy, public space and environmental health. On a warm evening late last spring, I took a kayak tour of the Buffalo River, because I wanted to see how Buffalo has transformed a derelict industrial waterway into a nautical playground. I rented my kayak at Canalside, a park built around the unearthed terminus of the Erie Canal, the waterway that 191 years ago made Buffalo a major Great Lakes port. Our tour flotilla passed powerboats, a jet ski, a rowing crew and a stand-up paddleboarder. read the rest... https://nextcity.org/features/view/buffalo-waterfront-redevelopment-economy
December 13, 20168 yr No renders yet, but they should be on the CPC site soon.... Downtown/Flats Design Review Agenda Thursday December 15th , 2016 DRAFT Cleveland City Hall Room 514 Design Review: *Schematic Design Approval 1. Project: DF2015-044: North Coast Harbor Lakefront Plan – Site B Project Address: North Coast Harbor Project Representative: Richard Pace, Cumberland Development; Gary Ogrocki and John Holtz, Dimit Architects "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 13, 20168 yr This is what Dimit proposed in February....... Well this is a pleasant change of plans. What was proposed as a two-story building is now a 5-story building of apartments over retail/restaurant/offices. More graphics (including floor plans) at the link below... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/02052016/index.php City Planning Commission Agenda for February 5, 2016 DF2015-044 – North Coast Harbor Site 1B New Construction: Seeking Schematic Design Approval Project Location: Former Skate Park Site Project Representatives: Gary Ogrocki, Dimit Architects Matt Plecnik, Dimit Architects Richard Pace, Cumberland Development "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 13, 20168 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/12162016/index.php updated designs
December 13, 20168 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/12162016/index.php updated designs Wonder why they reduced the height?
December 13, 20168 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/12162016/index.php updated designs Wonder why they reduced the height? I know when I went to tour Nuevo before it opened, Dick Pace said they had a lot of problems dealing with the FAA. He mentioned it being a struggle getting the volleyball courts and trees approved, so I wouldn't be surprised if that were the reason.
December 13, 20168 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/12162016/index.php updated designs Bleh. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 13, 20168 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/12162016/index.php updated designs Bleh. I don't remember the renders being overly ambitious, so I don't feel let down by this. At least there's no blank walls, I guess. I'm more interested to see how they're finally going to "connect" the existing attractions from a pedestrian standpoint.
December 14, 20168 yr I wanted more height. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 14, 20168 yr I am usually all about the height but in this case I don't mind the lower profile. I was one of those who didn't want it to overwhelm the RH. Also some of this may be FAA related but judging just by the rendering it looks like the money just wasn't there for the 4 story version. Just guessing. I also hope Pace is being realistic with the retail space he has to fill. Hope he has some firm commitments already. Below is the original 3 story rendering which I like much better. The new version looks to be somewhat 'value engineered'.
December 14, 20168 yr Okay, when you compare it to the other proposals, yes, the new version does look cheap. Or to put a more positive spin on it, the new version is thrifty. A penny saved is a penny earned, etc.
December 14, 20168 yr ^Yeah I like to think he is putting money into the piggy bank for the next phase.
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