^^ It absolutely  could be a very successful area....but only if Cleveland reverses the population trend and starts adding massive amounts of people.  (and jobs...and new companies) Unfortunately, any new mixed use area takes people from an existing one.  Its a shell game.

 

I disagree. As been proven by many of the developments in the city, there's such a pent up demand that we have a long way to go before we can even be worried about that issue. And you don't get population growth without building things that people want to live in. On that side of town, there isn't a population decrease, there's a population increase. Downtown is growing dramatically and demand is still high so it's not a "shell" game so to speak with other parts of the city. You could say that with the region as a whole because it is not just the city but the region in general that is stagnant but to be honest, that's a concern of mine but the growth and success of the city is a far bigger concern. So it doesn't really bother me if we are taking people from the suburbs and exurbs.

 

As far as the office project itself, I know some here are complaining about it and one even wished that it doesn't get built (which is mind boggling to me) but if it will help us retain one of our businesses and if we can get them to incorporate some retail and not just make it office space, I'm all for it.

^^ It absolutely  could be a very successful area....but only if Cleveland reverses the population trend and starts adding massive amounts of people.  (and jobs...and new companies) Unfortunately, any new mixed use area takes people from an existing one.  Its a shell game. 

 

Yep, we've seen this time and time again, which is why it rarely works and was even more rarely "planned" when it does.  What demand there is is most often met by block by block growth of the existing areas. 

Has anyone here attended the Ingenuity Fest when it was at the Port? I ask because if you were there, you see how you create an attraction in its simplest form. Simple as providing safe public access and programming events around art and music, of these we have in rare abundance.

 

A "successful" lakefront can mean ten different things to ten different people. But we don't have to pray for some developer to land complex financing sometime before 2027. We can start building right now, organically, in a way that lets us invent our own unique waterfront from the ground up. Believe me, investment and improvements will follow.

 

The lakefront doesn't have to be Flats East Bank: Take Two. That would be terrible. We do have to better connect the attractions we currently have, Rock Hall, Science Center, Mather, Voinovich Park, Stadium, etc. and that's going to take some planning ingenuity. But getting people to the water isn't rocket science. It's our natural desire to be near the water, and our lake has been fenced off for way too long. The locks are all rusted. It's time we just open the gate. 

What's the latest schedule on the first mixed use (apts/restaurant) building that was (I thought) green-lighted to be built behind the Rock Hall along the basin?

Cumberland Development to break ground for second building on downtown Cleveland lakefront

 

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/08/cumberland_development_to_brea.html#incart_river_home

 

Glad to see progress down on the lake front, but this is extremely underwhelming... and good luck finding folks to rent at $3,700/month

 

P.S. At least we will get a Cleveland Pickle shop down there  :-D

 

At least two more stories atop that building would've been nice.

Maybe I'm not reading this article right, but it says the building will cost $12 million to build 16 apartments.  At rents of $3,750/month, it will take 16 years to collect $12 million in rent off 16 apartments.  That 12 million figure seems extremely high for a building this size. 

What's the retail rent?

Cumberland Development to break ground for second building on downtown Cleveland lakefront

 

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/08/cumberland_development_to_brea.html#incart_river_home

 

Glad to see progress down on the lake front, but this is extremely underwhelming... and good luck finding folks to rent at $3,700/month

 

 

They won't need any luck to get these filled. 

Maybe I'm not reading this article right, but it says the building will cost $12 million to build 16 apartments.  At rents of $3,750/month, it will take 16 years to collect $12 million in rent off 16 apartments.  That 12 million figure seems extremely high for a building this size. 

 

Also retail and office space.

 

[KJP beat me to it]

and good luck finding folks to rent at $3,700/month

 

won't be a problem

^a couple hundred Jones Day lawyers just a five minute walk away (with 25 year old lawyers earning 160,000 to start).

What I find amazing is that financing has yet to be finalized and Cumberland is fronting what it eventually hopes to finance.  This is a perfect example of how hard it is to get projects like this off the ground.

 

 

 

The lakefront doesn't have to be Flats East Bank: Take Two. That would be terrible. We do have to better connect the attractions we currently have, Rock Hall, Science Center, Mather, Voinovich Park, Stadium, etc. and that's going to take some planning ingenuity. But getting people to the water isn't rocket science. It's our natural desire to be near the water, and our lake has been fenced off for way too long. The locks are all rusted. It's time we just open the gate. 

 

Not until you can commit the resources needed to make sure that public access is indeed safe.

 

Beulah Park and our neighbors at Villa Beach (not the park, the neighborhood) have sporadic problems with what amounts to trespassers, as both neighborhoods are built around private parks.  Inevitably, this amounts to problems with litter (often related to drugs or other illicit activities), uncleaned dog poop, loose dogs in general, etc.  We don't have these issues when we don't have the trespassers.  If the trespassers are ignored, eventually thefts and break ins begin.

 

Villa Beach Park (the Metropark) is large and reasonably well maintained, closed off at night, and of course the Metroparks have their own police force.

In the article they mention a single story retail connector between the Rock Hall and the Science Center. Have any renderings of that been released?

We are still just the beginning of the new lakefront developments. We'll see what happens north and east of the browns stadium, but be patient.

What's the retail rent?

Not sure, but one of them is Cumberland, so I'm not counting that. It just amazes me how some projects hit financing snags that seem extremely viable.  Then, there's a building like this that costs 12 MIL to build, and there's 16 total units.  I would love to know the appraised value of this building once complete. 

Not sure, but one of them is Cumberland, so I'm not counting that. It just amazes me how some projects hit financing snags that seem extremely viable.  Then, there's a building like this that costs 12 MIL to build, and there's 16 total units.  I would love to know the appraised value of this building once complete. 

 

You should. They are likely paying rent to their subsidiary Cumberland Lakefront LLC which will help retire the financing.

I'm just happy the smaller 16-unit mixed use building is finally moving forward and should compliment the Nuevo restaurant, which in itself is a plus.  Momentum is important.  I guess I never totally bought in to the idea TC could build all the stuff proposed: 1,000+ apt units, boatloads of retail, offices and even a school on this site next to the stadium.  Maybe someday, but not in one fell swoop.

Construction began today. Interesting tidbit here. Pase 2 could be announced later this year. http://fox8.com/2017/08/29/construction-begins-on-luxury-apartments-on-9th-street-pier/

I thought the groundbreaking today was for Phase 2? With Phase 3 being the retail connector to the Rock Hall?

 

The big stuff north of the stadium falls into a whole 'nother category. Hope they're right about being close to making an announcement about that, whatever phase it's called.

So who's the anchor tenant going to be?

 

Harbor Verandas project is next step in lakefront community living downtown

 

Design work for the third phase of the plan—a one-story retail and restaurant building that will connect the Rock Hall and the Science Center along the Harbor’s promenade—is already underway, says Pace. “On the harbor side, you will see storefronts,” he explains. “On the Erieside [Avenue] level, which is actually 20 feet higher, you will see a park on a green roof.”

 

In the meantime, Pace may be involved in the next development project to complete his neighborhood vision. Plans are in the works for a proposed 18-acre development just north of the Science Center that would include market-rate houses, retail, office space, and even a school. “This is a big phase,” he says. “We hope to sign an anchor tenant before the end of the year.”

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/breaking-ground/HarborVerandas090517.aspx

So who's the anchor tenant going to be?

 

Downtown really needs a Target or something similar. It would probably work better in tower city, but even having it far flung out by the lake would be a godsend for downtown residents.

A Target downtown on the Lake?

 

Sounds horrible.

 

 

For the anchor tenant, Pace is talking about a large office user, not a retail anchor. I have no inside info, but I could imagine Sherwin Williams wanting to move there. It would be great though to get a company from outside the region to move to town.

^If Sherwin Williams actually moves to the lakefront this would be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the Jacob Group is run by some of the most incompetent people in town.

For the anchor tenant, Pace is talking about a large office user, not a retail anchor. I have no inside info, but I could imagine Sherwin Williams wanting to move there. It would be great though to get a company from outside the region to move to town.

 

Yadda yadda yadda.....Burke....yadda....height restrictions.

Yadda yadda yadda.....Burke....yadda....height restrictions.

 

A headquarters doesn't mean a skyscraper. I assume you've seen their conceptual development plan that was approved by the city? It's probably large enough in terms of square footage to accommodate Sherwin-Williams.

 

They had recently listed on loopnet office space for lease of at least 750,000 square feet. However I do not see that listing anymore. Hmmm.....

^Its still there.

 

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?LID=20058778&STID=CB0003&LL=true

^Its still there.

 

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?LID=20058778&STID=CB0003&LL=true

 

Darn. I was hoping they leased it!

Construction fencing up around the site for Harbor Verandas. (Sept. 12, 2017)

 

Green Ribbon Coalition touts "land bridge" for downtown lakefront instead of Rosales design

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The city and Cuyahoga County have been mostly mum for two years on whether the iconic pedestrian bridge designed by Boston architect Miguel Rosales for the downtown lakefront will get built.

 

But that's not stopping the Green Ribbon Coalition, a nonprofit group that advocates for better connections and development along Lake Erie, from striding into the silence with a proposal of its own.

 

The group has been circulating a rough conceptual plan for a lakefront "land bridge" that would extend diagonally northeast from the north end of the downtown Mall to North Coast Harbor, traversing railroad tracks and parking lots that now separate the business district from the waterfront.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2017/09/green_ribbon_coalition_touts_l.html

 

This is a meritorious idea that would cost roughly 3 times as much as the proposed Rosales bridge. 

The $100 million estimate seems optimistic based on the size of what they're proposing, but I'd rather wait and spend significantly more on something (potentially) transformative to this part of the lakefront, than settle for a 14 foot-wide bridge. 

"A conceptual plan for a proposed lakefront intermodal transit hub. The image, dating to early 2017, was provided to The Plain Dealer by an anonymous source."

 

Three guesses, anyone?

I love the look of the 1000' footbridge, but from my perspective it's a three-season, partial solution.  The Land bridge that I've seen in Seattle completely masks I-5, providing a pedestrian friendly park.

Welcome, jbdad!

It sure would be great of the New NOACA would throw it's considerable weight behind the inter-modal transit hub.  Maybe then, contrary to the paragraph in today's Steve Litt article, officials would be talking about it.

I love the look of the 1000' footbridge, but from my perspective it's a three-season, partial solution.  The Land bridge that I've seen in Seattle completely masks I-5, providing a pedestrian friendly park.

 

The plans include an enclosed walkway that would presumably be more climate controlled.

Props to Green Ribbon (including some all star UO folks) for proposing an interesting alternative.

 

I think the bridge is visually interesting but very much lacking in practicality. The bridge just doesn't seem to integrate well with the much needed NC Transit Center. By the way, glad to hear the purported support from Jackson, great news.

 

I'll go ahead and dust off the Lakefront Convention Center proposal, because once I saw it that made it hard for me to settle for anything else.   

 

It is worth revisiting the proposed designs from the 2009 lakefront station Cleveland Design Competition. The 2nd place design is very similar to the latest design proposal from Green Ribbon.

 

 

I'd rather make the area as visually appealing as possible. Instead of a winding suspension bridge that spans over the rails and roadway, why not bridge over it with as much land cover as possible... wouldn't it make sense to enhance the environment, covering over mass transportation eye-sores? One thing I like about the Nexus plan; which I know it's part of a design competition, is that it covers and hides the peripheral vision of both the highway and the rails; all while updating the station which desperately needs aesthetic attention. I know the station is basically federal because it's Amtrak, but isn't it also connected via blue/green rta lines? So do we even need federal approval to rebuild the station?

 

Currently I'm all in favor of bridging land over roadways and railways. Is there any way we could build over these transits to where they become like another tower city?

 

Also I love tunnels. I recently went over to Paris, France and they have a sub-city highway that runs through the financial district of the city. It even encompasses a metro line. It's the A14 which turns into N13 and it goes straight to the Arc De Triomphe. Paris did something right hiding their motorways. Good for expansion when cities run out of room. This being said, can we just completely bridge over i-90 turning it into another green ribbon? I'd also be in favor or ridding i-90 of the super frequent exits through the campus district. Its something we don't need right before smashing into Dead-Mans curve. I think this would help lakefront access. A good lakefront is one thing, accessibility and walkability are another thing.

 

*sorry if I spewed off topic*

I'd rather make the area as visually appealing as possible. Instead of a winding suspension bridge that spans over the rails and roadway, why not bridge over it with as much land cover as possible... wouldn't it make sense to enhance the environment, covering over mass transportation eye-sores? One thing I like about the Nexus plan; which I know it's part of a design competition, is that it covers and hides the peripheral vision of both the highway and the rails; all while updating the station which desperately needs aesthetic attention. I know the station is basically federal because it's Amtrak, but isn't it also connected via blue/green rta lines? So do we even need federal approval to rebuild the station?

 

This project won't happen without federal funds. And Amtrak isn't an influencing factor here. It owns no property in the project area. It does have an easement, as does GCRTA. But unlike GCRTA, Amtrak has never paid a dime of rent or other compensation for its easement. The Amtrak station sits here because the city wanted them here rather than at Cleveland Union Terminal when Amtrak's Lake Shore service returned in 1975 after a three-year hiatus. No compensation was ever demanded by the city in 1975 so Amtrak never paid anything. However, to hedge against the city changing its mind, Amtrak purchased a strip of land in the fading East 26th Rail Yard that was used for storing and staging iron ore jennies, which is where Amtrak could relocate its Cleveland station just in case. That site no longer works for Amtrak as it is east of where Amtrak's two routes split; any Amtrak station has to be at or west of the walkway between the North Point office building and its parking garage. BTW, the portion of the yard closest to South Marginal Road is being considered as the new location for the Cleveland outlet mall.

 

And yes, considering this is a significant transportation project that is likely to use federal funds, the project development process will have to follow the National Environmental Policy Act. That means that any final site selected as well as preliminary and final designs will have to be approved by all federal agencies having jurisdiction including the Federal Highway Administration, Federal Railroad Administration, Federal Transit Administration and possibly others as well.

 

A Highway Runs Through It

The demolition of the FirstEnergy plant presents Cleveland a unique opportunity to return neglected Gordon Park to its glory days, but a few obstacles stand in the way

By Daniel McGraw

 

 

Let's do a hypothetical. You're in University Circle with some friends from out of town. Maybe you're enjoying a bite in Little Italy or gazing in awe at the world-class collection at the Cleveland Museum of Art. It's been fun. Your friends are thrilled. What about Lake Erie, though? It's close, isn't it? They've never seen a Great Lake before and want to bask in the freshwater wonder before leaving town. Any lakefront parks close by that you can take them to?

 

You think for a minute and rattle of the options: Mentor Headlands 30 miles to the east; Huntington Beach 20 miles to the west; East Ninth by the Rock Hall, a pier not a park; and Edgewater Park about 10 miles away just west of downtown. Maybe you check Google to make sure you haven't missed anything else — that's it, right? — or maybe some trace of a memory emerges and you say, oh yeah, there's one more option: the Gordon Park area -- with its fishing piers and boat launch ramps -- just three miles north, a nice ride down MLK Jr. Dr. through Rockefeller Park. Seems like the obvious choice, right?

 

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-highway-runs-through-it/Content?oid=11243699&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9e3eb9c970-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-9e3eb9c970-35256177

 

A Highway Runs Through It

The demolition of the FirstEnergy plant presents Cleveland a unique opportunity to return neglected Gordon Park to its glory days, but a few obstacles stand in the way

By Daniel McGraw

 

 

Let's do a hypothetical. You're in University Circle with some friends from out of town. Maybe you're enjoying a bite in Little Italy or gazing in awe at the world-class collection at the Cleveland Museum of Art. It's been fun. Your friends are thrilled. What about Lake Erie, though? It's close, isn't it? They've never seen a Great Lake before and want to bask in the freshwater wonder before leaving town. Any lakefront parks close by that you can take them to?

 

You think for a minute and rattle of the options: Mentor Headlands 30 miles to the east; Huntington Beach 20 miles to the west; East Ninth by the Rock Hall, a pier not a park; and Edgewater Park about 10 miles away just west of downtown. Maybe you check Google to make sure you haven't missed anything else — that's it, right? — or maybe some trace of a memory emerges and you say, oh yeah, there's one more option: the Gordon Park area -- with its fishing piers and boat launch ramps -- just three miles north, a nice ride down MLK Jr. Dr. through Rockefeller Park. Seems like the obvious choice, right?

 

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-highway-runs-through-it/Content?oid=11243699&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9e3eb9c970-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-9e3eb9c970-35256177

Villa Angela/Euclid Beach isn't bad at all either, and I understand they are doing some upgrades.

 

A Highway Runs Through It

The demolition of the FirstEnergy plant presents Cleveland a unique opportunity to return neglected Gordon Park to its glory days, but a few obstacles stand in the way

By Daniel McGraw

 

 

Let's do a hypothetical. You're in University Circle with some friends from out of town. Maybe you're enjoying a bite in Little Italy or gazing in awe at the world-class collection at the Cleveland Museum of Art. It's been fun. Your friends are thrilled. What about Lake Erie, though? It's close, isn't it? They've never seen a Great Lake before and want to bask in the freshwater wonder before leaving town. Any lakefront parks close by that you can take them to?

 

You think for a minute and rattle of the options: Mentor Headlands 30 miles to the east; Huntington Beach 20 miles to the west; East Ninth by the Rock Hall, a pier not a park; and Edgewater Park about 10 miles away just west of downtown. Maybe you check Google to make sure you haven't missed anything else — that's it, right? — or maybe some trace of a memory emerges and you say, oh yeah, there's one more option: the Gordon Park area -- with its fishing piers and boat launch ramps -- just three miles north, a nice ride down MLK Jr. Dr. through Rockefeller Park. Seems like the obvious choice, right?

 

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-highway-runs-through-it/Content?oid=11243699&utm_source=Cleveland+Scene+-+Weekly+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9e3eb9c970-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_63c629abc4-9e3eb9c970-35256177

 

I really think moving the shroeway in the manner depicted here makes sense.  Gordon Park was once the beautiful lakefront head to Rockefeller Park but was destroyed by the freeway.  But this is a once in 100 year opportunity to correct that mistake, if we begin planning for it now before other interest start making decisions that cannot be undone.

Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.

I would love to see development continue on the lakefront...  my idea would be to build a boardwalk north of Burke and put them there...??

Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.

 

 

Isn't The Mather part of The GLSC? 

 

 

Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.

 

The USS Cod is a National Historical Landmark, so moving her might be problematic especially for private development.

 

Though supposedly she is actually still seaworthy so an effort to put her in the water and take her out on special occasions might gain traction.  Though she would have to be protected from ice.

Rumors are that the city is at least continuing (if not intensifying) its efforts to move the SS Cod for Geis' development and the Mather for the Pace development.

 

It is.

 

 

Isn't The Mather part of The GLSC?