I don't see this as a prime space of land for tailgating unless its the muni-lot.

It amazes me that  the elegant Rosales curved basal bridge originally planned for North Coast Harbor was scrapped because too many parts were foreign and would have lost its funding. The total cost of this bridge concept was $5.5 million dollars.  Now Mayor Jackson and City Council want to borrow $6 million dollars for a subpar design that now costs $16.8 million.  Time to say no to this  design and go back to what was budgeted.

The city's priorities are a complete mess. The money should have been set aside for the transportation hub -- the one KJP said was basically dead.

LOL I don't think the City has thought this through enough.  Can't this be taken on AFTER the city can get $16.8 million for demos- which would cover roughly 1680 homes which need to be torn down?  

10 hours ago, PittsburgoDelendaEst said:

This bridge always seemed like a "finishing touch" to me, completely dependent on a firm plan and financing in place for mixed use north of the Browns stadium to activate Voinovich Park.  I've never understood why this has been on anything other than the most rear of burners.

Strongly agree with above and sentiments of other posters concerning this bridge.  Seems to me that there has to be an interesting backstory as to  why this large sum of money is suddenly available for a project that does not seem to be a priority.  I would imagine most on the forum would agree that if possible this money should be directed towards the more important goal of bridging the mall to the lakefront over the Shoreway.

 

As a side note, I was down in the park for the first time in a long time a couple of months ago meeting a buddy at the Mexican restaurant and was surprised to see that the pier parking had been extended into the hard surface of the park itself.  I hope this is temporary.  It was a very shabby look.

2 hours ago, Mendo said:

The city's priorities are a complete mess. The money should have been set aside for the transportation hub -- the one KJP said was basically dead.

That was my exact comment on cle.com.

Just to pile on, this is a prime example of throwing good money after bad. It's not crazy what the city is trying to do here, making the horrendous original design of North Coast Harbor slightly more usable, but the incremental improvement doesn't seem nearly worth that much money, especially given all the competing priorities that others are appropriately mentioning.

Lol a pedestrian bridge you have to drive to. And you can make a 10 min walk from the science center to Voinovich Park as is. How is this a priority over connecting downtown better with the lakefront or building a multi-modal transit hub at the existing Amtrak stop?

33 minutes ago, flee2thecleve14 said:

Lol a pedestrian bridge you have to drive to. And you can make a 10 min walk from the science center to Voinovich Park as is. How is this a priority over connecting downtown better with the lakefront or building a multi-modal transit hub at the existing Amtrak stop?

There does need to be a more cohesive, sensible walkway connecting the attractions within North Coast Harbor. There is just no pedestrian flow. Hopefully the bridge is a start to seeing an actual plan to address the suburban disjointedness. 

Pics from Harbor Veranda's today on the lakefront. I was with Dick Pace, and he told me the next phase is starting in June. It will be the warehouses north of the stadium and they will be converted to retail, shops and restaurants. They will convert the ceilings to skylights to bring in the natural light. The plans look amazing. He said connecting the Rock Hall and the Science Center would come after that. Pics from Harbor Veranda's today on the lakefront.

Edited November 13, 20186 yr by zbaris87

Converted?  The plans that were presented were always for new construction.

He said that the original plan was to tear down the warehouses, but that's no longer the case. They will keep the existing structure up, however completely change the facade of the building. 

That would be a massive wasted opportunity. If that's the best they can come up with, maybe it's time the city ends their relationship with Pace to find somebody able to do something big.

 

edit: Here is the overhead of the warehouses:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5082613,-81.7001439,373m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

 

Edited November 13, 20186 yr by Mendo

Anybody got pictures of those warehouses?

So they couldn't pull in the rumored office tenant or two to fill a 100,000 sf building? And using existing, long abandoned structures? That tells me they couldn't pull in the financing to make new construction possible, or find subsidies to fill the financing gaps. I toured those vacant warehouses more than a decade ago and they were substantially built (heavy steel girder frames, thick concrete floors, etc) but very raw, rusty and drafty.

He said the office will come soon. This is just the next phase. I saw the plans today and have them. I will upload them tomorrow sometime. 

1 hour ago, zbaris87 said:

He said that the original plan was to tear down the warehouses, but that's no longer the case. They will keep the existing structure up, however completely change the facade of the building. 

Great. Anyone who has been to Ingenuity there can attest that those existing warehouses can work out. 

Edited November 13, 20186 yr by surfohio

9 hours ago, zbaris87 said:

 

" Next phase".... In Cleveland development that is code for nothing is going to happen anytime soon.

 

I agree with KJP.   What happen to the supposed tenant Pace has been courting so long that was suppose to kick start major construction.  Given how long Pace has had control of the lakefront, a single restaurant and a small apartment building to date is disappointing to say the least.  Of course he has to do something by June or he loses his option so I guess this is it.

 

I hate to be such a Debbie Downer but we have been promised substantial lakefront redevelopment for decades and it is starting to wear on me.   If something grand cannot be put together in this economy than I am not very optimist about the near future if things go south.  I mean we are due.

9 hours ago, zbaris87 said:

He said the office will come soon. This is just the next phase. I saw the plans today and have them. I will upload them tomorrow sometime. 

 

I'll wait to see the plans before I comment further. Thanks @zbaris87 for offering to share them.

I'll be posting them later this afternoon. Dick Pace has been living up to his end so far. It's Trammel and Co. out of Dallas that's done absolutely nothing for this project. 

46 minutes ago, zbaris87 said:

I'll be posting them later this afternoon. Dick Pace has been living up to his end so far. It's Trammel and Co. out of Dallas that's done absolutely nothing for this project. 

This is what I was thinking. He has delivered on apartments, a restaurant and is about to redevelop an abandoned warehouse that no one else was going to touch for more housing. I know this sounds like "take what you can get" but it really is "appreciate what this man is/has done that no other developer has ever done for our lakefront." He even revitalized the long underperforming "colonial" arcades and filled them up, he is working his magic in areas that other people couldn't or wouldn't. Even though it isn't what some may want (some people seem to want a pipe dream of a lakefront on here) it is definitely quality what we are getting albeit a smaller scale.

Edited November 13, 20186 yr by MyPhoneDead

I know people want a big new construction development, but there are tons of great new developments that center around some sort of redeveloped industrial building. These could easily be the centerpiece of the new development with new buildings ringing them. No reason we can't have both.

 

And if this gets us closer to new construction sooner instead of waiting for magical funding to fall from the sky, I think it's a smart move.

Steel tariffs and a skilled labor shortage have made project costs go way up. It makes sense to see if the warehouses can be re-purposed. 

zbaris87 how bout those plans?? ?

Left them at the office. Will upload tomorrow. I also realized I need to get the updated pics of the warehouse from Dick next time I see him. 

On 11/14/2018 at 11:20 PM, zbaris87 said:

Left them at the office. Will upload tomorrow. I also realized I need to get the updated pics of the warehouse from Dick next time I see him. 

How are we doing with those uploaded posts?

Some more pics of Harbor Verandas on cleveland.com. I really wish this were taller. The design is good, it just feels pointless with just 16 units.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-and-culture/erry-2018/12/cc18ff039b2649/tour-the-luxury-harbor-veranda.html

 

Here are a couple pics, see more at the link.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 20186 yr by Mendo

I note that 14 of the 16 apartments are leased and they expect all 16 to be rented by Feb 1.  The rents are between $3400 and $4500.  I recall a few months back a poster questioning the rents and suggesting they would have a hard time filling the place up.  I guess that was an incorrect assumption.

Edited December 7, 20186 yr by Htsguy

According to this reporter Dice Pace is to break ground next June on 1500 units.

 

However, according to zbaris upthread Pace is to start conversion of warehouses in June.

Somehow, I believe zbaris.

 

Still waiting for the promised renderings...

Guys, I checked the renderings. Nothing has changed from the ones I have. I will ask Dick tomorrow for the updated renderings of the warehouses. I'd be happy to upload them anyway 

Feel free to post whatever renderings you have.

That's for the for almost-finished apartment building behind the Rock Hall. Could you post the renderings of the warehouse buildings you said would be renovated?

 

Below is a Google Earth view from July 17, 2017 showing the apartment building site behind the Rock Hall, shortly before construction began.

I'm waiting for Dick to send me the actual renderings of the warehouses. Will post them as soon as I receive them. 

13 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I note that 14 of the 16 apartments are leased and they expect all 16 to be rented by Feb 1.  The rents are between $3400 and $4500.  I recall a few months back a poster questioning the rents and suggesting they would have a hard time filling the place up.  I guess that was an incorrect assumption.

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison to other buildings seeking similar rents, definitely think the location and units themselves set them apart and helps with their lease up. There are plenty of units seeking similar rent/psf sitting empty. Not that I think those units will continue to sit empty, but it will take longer to lease up and prices may have to come down/incentives offered to entice renters (a good number of buildings have started to offer 2 months free on 14 month leases, among other incentives, but we are in a slow rental season).

 

Edited to add that I think you'll find that buildings that are leasing well are offering unique spaces, amenities, etc. (Worthington Yards, Harbor Verandas, W. 9th Lofts, to name a few).

Edited December 7, 20186 yr by andrew0816
Edited to add another point

14 minutes ago, andrew0816 said:

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison to other buildings seeking similar rents, definitely think the location and units themselves set them apart and helps with their lease up. There are plenty of units seeking similar rent/psf sitting empty. Not that I think those units will continue to sit empty, but it will take longer to lease up and prices may have to come down/incentives offered to entice renters (a good number of buildings have started to offer 2 months free on 14 month leases, among other incentives, but we are in a slow rental season).

 

Edited to add that I think you'll find that buildings that are leasing well are offering unique spaces, amenities, etc. (Worthington Yards, Harbor Verandas, W. 9th Lofts, to name a few).

 

Would have to agree with all your points.  With HV I think location is key and I recall pointing out to the poster at the time who asked who would pay those rents in Cleveland that there was a building full of Jones Day lawyers a five minute walk away with associate starting salaries over $150,000.  Also agree that the more unique the building the easier it is to lease, with Worthington Yards being a good example.

On 8/30/2015 at 4:19 PM, w28th said:

As a former Eastsider I'll be sad to see this behemoth taken down.  It always announced that you were in the City since downtown became very visible after passing it.  I remember as a kid the "Noel" Christmas lights they'd put on the west face of the building.  The tall smoke stack also had a different light scheme at the top that lined the whole diameter in red light.

 

Yes! The giant NOEL sign. I have been trying to find an old picture of this for my Dad and his friends as they're the ones that hung it and decorated the plant for Christmas, my Dad worked there for over 48 years and retired, and was then brought back to advise during the demolition.

"Cleveland exploring alternatives to Miguel Rosales design for lakefront pedestrian bridge"

 

This seems like fairly positive news when you read the direction they are going... especially this:

 

'Collier said the city is examining concepts that would create greater opportunities for private development north of City Hall and the Huntington Convention Center and between the traffic bridges at East Ninth and West Third streets.

Collier said the city is also exploring how a pedestrian bridge could be linked to a new multi-modal transportation facility in the area, where a small, outmoded Amtrak station now stands'

 

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2018/12/city-of-cleveland-exploring-alternatives-to-iconic-miguel-rosales-design-for-lakefront-pedestrian-bridge.html

Oh thank God!

KJP I was wondering if you had any further insight on the status of the transportation facility?  I thought last time you posted about it things were looking pretty dim...

At least they're talking about it.

 

"Collier said the city is also exploring how a pedestrian bridge could be linked to a new multi-modal transportation facility in the area, where a small, outmoded Amtrak station now stands."

Okay, anyone care to guess which developer is behind this recent episode of enlightenment? 

1 hour ago, mrclifton88 said:

KJP I was wondering if you had any further insight on the status of the transportation facility?  I thought last time you posted about it things were looking pretty dim...

 

@mrclifton88 Unfortunately there has been no activity on the multimodal station project. Some of us are trying to stir up action again, considering there is significant new federal funding from pots of money the city doesn't seem to be aware of, that is available to address not only the lack of a multimodal transportation center but also the inadequate track layout in the vicinity of the Amtrak station and port of Cleveland that is causing delays not only to rail traffic on this busy mainline, but also to maritime traffic on the Cuyahoga River.

Edited December 27, 20186 yr by KJP

I still dream of an at-grade Shoreway between East 9th and 3rd, then eliminating the Erieside/Alfred Lerner Way and flyover through the Warehouse District. It would shorten the walkway from the Mall and create buildable land in the WHD and along the Shoreway which you could then build right up-to.

Edited December 27, 20186 yr by Mendo

FYI here's the report I wrote about the rail traffic congestion on the lakefront and what could be done about it....

http://freepdfhosting.com/34041eeab4.pdf

 

There was no money available to do anything about it at the time, but now there is:

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P1107

 

And if the city was willing to part with $6 million to $7 million per year over 20 years, they could finance the land bridge as shown in the image below using a no-match-required federal Railroad Rehabilitation & Improvement Financing loan https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/programs-services/rrif Not to mention a private-sector, station-area development which will be allowed for only another two more years unless Congress extends the authorization to use RRIF loans for station-area real estate development. BTW, only $6 billion of the $35 billion in RRIF loan authority has been tapped.

 

 

Edited December 27, 20186 yr by KJP

Today's WSJ has a big article on decking over freeways. Projects or proposals in Atlanta, Dallas, Philadelphia get prominent mention. Price tags on the projects run rapidly upward from $100 million. The cities mentioned all say they need parks to attract millenials and are willing to pay the price, but their downtown areas are more built up than Cleveland's with fewer alternatives for development available.

 

Cleveland needs to heed Burnam's advice and "make no little plans" for the Mall extension; but it doesn't have to be done now. I think the trick will be to avoid screwing up the sector for the future by rushing into something cheesy.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-woo-millennials-atlanta-considers-covering-highways-with-parks-11546344000?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=4

.

 

 

On 12/27/2018 at 2:28 PM, KJP said:

FYI here's the report I wrote about the rail traffic congestion on the lakefront and what could be done about it....

http://freepdfhosting.com/34041eeab4.pdf

 

There was no money available to do anything about it at the time, but now there is:

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P1107

 

And if the city was willing to part with $6 million to $7 million per year over 20 years, they could finance the land bridge as shown in the image below using a no-match-required federal Railroad Rehabilitation & Improvement Financing loan https://www.transportation.gov/buildamerica/programs-services/rrif Not to mention a private-sector, station-area development which will be allowed for only another two more years unless Congress extends the authorization to use RRIF loans for station-area real estate development. BTW, only $6 billion of the $35 billion in RRIF loan authority has been tapped.

 

 

That is an impressive study, KJP. Hopefully city leaders are fully aware of it and the need for improving the rail infrastructure in its most basic of ways. This is a solveable problem that is mainly out of view probably because it all happens in the wee hours of the morning. It is hard to remember thet we have passenger trains coming to Cleveland since they are rarely seen in the daylight. 

   This is a perfect starting point for the agencies that are looking at updating the amtrak train station. 

Edited January 2, 20196 yr by audidave

I don't know where I found this picture, does anybody know anything about where this plan came from? The background photo predates all of the Flats East Bank and the Convention center remodeling, but it could just be a stock photo and a school project. I want those towers above the shoreway and train lines

This isn't that old. It is from Dick Pace/Cumberland development. Whatever happens with that property I hope they can keep the boat docks as part of the final design. I love the way that channel is cut out, North coast harbor needs more boats and a dedicated Marina.