The renderings are definitely improved from the previous shoebox design with the addition of the glass and the cantilever roof. I'm not fussed. Traditional retail is a struggling market, but outlet stores don't require the same wealth base that department and designer stores require. Infact, where is the nearest outlet mall, 30-40 miles from downtown? I think it would do alright and it would also get passing trade from i90. I've been to Ohio Station Outlets down in Columbus a few times lately on Sunday afternoons and its been pretty active, whereas I also described on here recently that on my most recent visit to a more traditional yet newer "mall" in Crocker Park on a dry Saturday afternoon it was pretty dead. The location is a bit cut off from the core of downtown however, IMO.

Edited March 1, 20196 yr by snakebite

Will Blockland bridge the gap to the lakefront?

 

So I will admit what I know about Block chain and crypto currency is limited to what I read in the headlines, but I am able to add two and two together, so let me speculate. In a recent post I quoted an article from CrainsCleveland in which Richard Pace/Cumberland suggested they will be ready in June to start a new project, which might include housing and a school. A school? What school. Now let's go back a couple of months when a forum member posted that Richard Pace will be renovating the two warehouses that currently sit North of FES. Enter CrainsCleveland again in an interview today with Jon Pinney who leads Blockland Cleveland in its search for a campus downtown. Pinney is quoted as saying that after evaluating dozens of sites they have come down to one and are in negotiations with the current developer who controls the land. But what he also said is the 150m dollar project would include a k-8 school on its campus. And they are currently working with Vocon on the design. Keep in mind Pinney, who is also part of the group that purchased a block of buildings in the garment district that is rumored to be the new headquarters for a suburban mortgage company is also working with Vocon on that project. Now Pinney who is a lawyer and with his firm has been involved with many recent projects, helping with site acquisition, tax credits, and development is to said to move quickly and hates delays. 

So what does this mean? Below is a wish list of requirements for the campus called 'Genesis' and it seems to fit what could be done with the warehouses and the surrounding property. Pace has also been very quiet and has seemed to move away from his previous vision known as Harborview that we have seen on Loopnet. 

^ Now that's intriguing analysis! But this plan seems the antithesis of the publicly accessible amenity that the Lakefront is supposed to become. 

[edit: spelling]

Edited March 1, 20196 yr by surfohio

^Yes I agree but my dreams of a Chicago type waterfront with its parks and public spaces are probably not reality. I just want good sustainable development, those public type spaces will come if everything else is successful.

16 minutes ago, freethink said:

^Yes I agree but my dreams of a Chicago type waterfront with its parks and public spaces are probably not reality. I just want good sustainable development, those public type spaces will come if everything else is successful.

We have such little opportunity to remedy our waterfront. Anything other than a publicly welcoming space shouldn't be allowed. It's not like we don't have several hundred thousand acres available that aren't waterfront property.  

All this discussion of the new projects makes me hope that the outlet mall does not get built.  I know there might be some benefits but I'd rather all the new retail that could stem from the transformation of TC go to nuCLEus, Euclid Grand, 925 Euclid, and the May Co building.

Edited March 8, 20196 yr by cle_guy90

The North Coast Harbor Pedestrian Bridge was sold yesterday. Slated to be opened in the fall of 2020.

Edited March 8, 20196 yr by Enginerd
Clarity

11 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

The North Coast Pedestrian Bridge was sold yesterday. Slated to be opened in the fall of 2020.

 huh?

Sorry, this one.

^I still don't see the need for it.  I wish the funds could be transfer to more pressing lakefront infrastructure projects.

1 minute ago, Htsguy said:

^I still don't see the need for it.  I wish the funds could be transfer to more pressing lakefront infrastructure projects.

 

The bid price was $12.2 million, which was 40% over the estimate. There were also only two bidders...so there is a chance it could be pulled but I would be surprised.

2 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

 

The bid price was $12.2 million, which was 40% over the estimate. There were also only two bidders...so there is a chance it could be pulled but I would be surprised.

I know that is not how it works but wouldn't be great to use that 7 million or so to help kick start the Irishtown Bend project which is going to be transformative for Ohio City and Cleveland as a whole.

About $8 million is from the City. The rest is a Federal earmark ?

^I think I'd be willing to lose that federal earmark if it meant using the $8M in city money on something more meaningful. This whole bridge thing is just throwing good money after bad.

1 minute ago, StapHanger said:

^I think I'd be willing to lose that federal earmark if it meant using the $8M in city money on something more meaningful. This whole bridge thing is just throwing good money after bad.

 

I agree with you. I’m not sure who exactly is supposed to be using this bridge. Maybe once more pace development happens on the other side by the science center? I don’t know.

A Bridge to/from Nowhere Nuevo Mod Mex

 

We'd need at least a few-thousand people living north of the Shoreway for this $8million commitment from the city to begin to make sense. Hopefully the Pace development is further along than it seems from afar...

Side note: You want Cleveland to get real violent, real quick - take away the muni lot. 

1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

Side note: You want Cleveland to get real violent, real quick - take away the muni lot. 

 

I'm seeing more tailgaters in the parking lots to the west of FES anway. They're going to have to migrate over there. It's bad enough we have a stadium that's used only 10-15 times a year blocking development of the lakefront. I'm not going to shed a tear for a bunch of drunkards who are will someday lose their windswept parking lots to get sh!tfaced 10 days out of 365.

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I'm seeing more tailgaters in the parking lots to the west of FES anway. They're going to have to migrate over there. It's bad enough we have a stadium that's used only 10-15 times a year blocking development of the lakefront. I'm not going to shed a tear for a bunch of drunkards who are will someday lose their windswept parking lots to get sh!tfaced 10 days out of 365.

 

You don't know the real us, @KJP !!!! lol

The rest of sober Cleveland will hold a Monday morning planning commission meeting the day after a home Browns game, with a 24-hour public notice, for the rezoning of the muny lots. If the hungover muny lot partiers are able to drag their a$$es of out bed to attend the hearing, more power to ya!! ? The follow-on RFP for the sale of the lots, preferably in the off-season, will merely be a procedural matter.

Edited March 8, 20196 yr by KJP

"BTW, Marie Antoinette, chopping your head away from the rest of your body will improve you"....

 

 

Great to see the continued upward trend in CLE visitors.  I'm really intrigued by the dual purpose land bridge/convention center expansion concept for connecting the lakefront while simultaneously opening CLE to larger conventions.  The investments seem to have paid off with the Huntington Conv. Center and Hilton.  Would love to see the city double-down on that investment.

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/nonprofits/convention-and-visitors-bureau-sets-new-goal 

There's gonna be a ton of national TV coverage of the lakefront for the foreseeable future.  It sure would be nice to see some progress.

 

GO BROWNS!!!!

44 minutes ago, RE Developer In Training said:

There's gonna be a ton of national TV coverage of the lakefront for the foreseeable future.  It sure would be nice to see some progress.

 

GO BROWNS!!!!

 

I will personally be showing the world how with a portable grill, some libations, a stogie, and several folding chairs, the Muni Lot is a world class destination 

Anything new from Dick Pace?

Had lunch with the partner of a development firm who has worked with Dick Pace and said he is in over his head with the lakefront development. He said there's no way that he can build it alone, adding buildings north of Browns stadium one at a time because no one wants to live or work at such a remote outpost. And Pace doesn't have the juice to do anything larger. Unless the Browns are involved, such as moving their practice facility and offices downtown as part of a $300 million to $400 million mixed-use project (hotel, more offices, residential, Titletown-type space) right off the bat, it isn't going to happen.

^Agree with the skepticism about that site, but regarding the first part, isn't that the whole point of Trammell Crow being part of the development team?  We don't know the exact terms of their arrangement, but in theory, Pace isn't really going it alone. 

Trammel Crow has added little more than its name so Dick Pace can do what he's done so far. It's not added anything substantive to build the kind of megadevelopment that's needed to build a mostly self-sustaining lakefront community, aside from game days and other lakefront events. It's not completely his fault since megadevelopments are very difficult to achieve in Cleveland.

I heard Trammel Crow has pretty much flaked out.

Here I go being negative again but nothing about this really surprises me.  Pace didn't have the cv to start with.  Of course the blame ultimately belongs to the city.

 

I guess we will know for sure in June when the extended option expires.  Then we can start from scratch again.

I don't think you're being negative (at least this time ? ), just realistic. Unless the Browns come through with some kind of financing or project like a Green Bay-style "Titletown," the city is going to have to hit the reset button.

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

I don't think you're being negative (at least this time ? ), just realistic. Unless the Browns come through with some kind of financing or project like a Green Bay-style "Titletown," the city is going to have to hit the reset button.

That lakefront re-set button has to be worn out by now after 40 years of pushing.?

Maybe we can cut our losses and just return the land north of the stadium to port uses. Use it to free up current port areas with better development potential, like the east bank of of the river mouth. 

On 3/13/2019 at 9:41 AM, RE Developer In Training said:

There's gonna be a ton of national TV coverage of the lakefront for the foreseeable future.  It sure would be nice to see some progress.

 

GO BROWNS!!!!

 

With any luck the "OBJ effect" will take hold and waves of investment akin to East 4th will wash over every square foot of lakefront property around the stadium ?

Edited March 14, 20196 yr by ASP1984

On 3/13/2019 at 1:05 PM, KJP said:

Had lunch with the partner of a development firm who has worked with Dick Pace and said he is in over his head with the lakefront development. He said there's no way that he can build it alone, adding buildings north of Browns stadium one at a time because no one wants to live or work at such a remote outpost. And Pace doesn't have the juice to do anything larger. Unless the Browns are involved, such as moving their practice facility and offices downtown as part of a $300 million to $400 million mixed-use project (hotel, more offices, residential, Titletown-type space) right off the bat, it isn't going to happen.

Is there any chance that a Titletown could happen? Is that something the Browns would be interested in? They SHOULD be

1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Is there any chance that a Titletown could happen? Is that something the Browns would be interested in? They SHOULD be

 

I have no idea. That was just a brainstorm between myself and a developer over a tortilla appetizer.

So i was bored and looking around and came across this poster...  I briefly looked for it on here and couldnt find anything...  This looks very ambitious. http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/lakefront/iactive/poster/waterfront_poster.pdf

 

found this all the way back at the beginning of this thread..  damn

 

Edited March 16, 20196 yr by G00pie

1 hour ago, G00pie said:

So i was bored and looking around and came across this poster...  I briefly looked for it on here and couldnt find anything...  This looks very ambitious. http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/lakefront/iactive/poster/waterfront_poster.pdf

 

found this all the way back at the beginning of this thread..  damn

 

 

That was the Mayor Jane Campbell-Planning Director Chris Ronayne lakefront plan. 

42 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That was the Mayor Jane Campbell-Planning Director Chris Ronayne lakefront plan. 

Does anybody have some pics of Moses Cleaveland's lakefront plan??

6 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Does anybody have some pics of Moses Cleaveland's lakefront plan??

 

Lawd!  LOL

59 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That was the Mayor Jane Campbell-Planning Director Chris Ronayne lakefront plan. 

 

I believe it is still technically "The Lakefront Plan".

Let’s get this right.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/land-bridge-proposed-to-link-cleveland-mall-to-lake-erie-what-you-need-to-know.html

Edited March 18, 20196 yr by Cleveland Trust

Only took the PD a month to catch up to my breaking of this story.......  ?

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/02/downtown-lakefront-land-bridge-has.html

This obsession with the Mall - Lakefront connection is insane to me.  Pretty sure we could think of so many better ways to improve our lakefront for $70M. 

Yes, a multimodal station, convention center expansion and Mall D that doubles as a lakefront connection!

2 hours ago, StapHanger said:

This obsession with the Mall - Lakefront connection is insane to me.  Pretty sure we could think of so many better ways to improve our lakefront for $70M. 

Ok I gotta ask. What would you do with $70M? Of course keep in mind Public Square aka Jersey Barrier Square somehow cost $30M. 

4 hours ago, surfohio said:

Ok I gotta ask. What would you do with $70M? Of course keep in mind Public Square aka Jersey Barrier Square somehow cost $30M. 

Public Square was $50M

The PD article says that the Green Ribbon Coalition will host a lakefront dialogue series beginning in April and a summit in August with government and business leaders regarding the waterfront - could be very interesting.  Hopefully some insightful Forum members are there. 

Per Cleveland.com:

"One advantage of the land bridge plan is an enclosed walkway atop the park, which would lead from the Huntington Convention Center to a building proposed between the Great Lakes Science Center and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, to be built by Cumberland Development."

 

Does anyone have any insight on what the proposed building may be used for?  From the design, it looks like it could be an additional entrance to either the Rock Hall or the Science Center.

While I'm sure the concept has morphed 100 times by now back when Nuevo was still under construction the developer's plan included some method of getting between the Rock Hall and the Science Center w/o going outside to make them more accessible in the winter and to make the area more of a destination than a place people pop into for 1 thing and leave.