I'd assume it would take a feel of Battery Park a somewhat isolated feel with a couple of eatery's or bars.

In case anyone was curious, there are literally 16 vehicular travel lanes between this site and the lake. 

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by StapHanger

In other news...... the fencing is up for the “bridge to nowhere” project

If Pace’s project actually happens, this’ll be a great feature.

^I agree

16 hours ago, mack34 said:

In other news...... the fencing is up for the “bridge to nowhere” project

This may be remnants from tall ships- this is where they had day rides going out from (and the fence was up like this).

Nope.....I asked two of the people putting it up what it was for

I was having such a nice day and you had to remind be about this boondoggle.

 

I know it doesn't work this way once money is allocated for a project but it frustrates me so much when worthwhile projects like the mall land bridge and Irishtown bend (hell even the 2 mil to fix Public Square) are probably searching desperately for money and we are going forward with this.

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by Htsguy

15 minutes ago, mack34 said:

Nope.....I asked two of the people putting it up what it was for

Awesome to hear, I wasn't doubting ya, just pointing out something (@Eastside ?)

If they are really building that pedestrian bridge to Voinovich Park, then I hope the Cumberland development's greenspace which is slated to be very close the the bridge, is more interesting than yet another lawn as it was depicted in the site plan. I know the idea of extending the line of the malls is interesting in a way, but, counterpoint: the malls kind of suck. We are spending millions to put in a pedestrian bridge that will take people directly to Voinovich Park, which is mostly a lawn. A garden with trees, plantings, and benches, and/or a playground would be better there than another boring lawn to mow, in my opinion. 

22 minutes ago, PittsburgoDelendaEst said:

If they are really building that pedestrian bridge to Voinovich Park, then I hope the Cumberland development's greenspace which is slated to be very close the the bridge, is more interesting than yet another lawn as it was depicted in the site plan. I know the idea of extending the line of the malls is interesting in a way, but, counterpoint: the malls kind of suck. We are spending millions to put in a pedestrian bridge that will take people directly to Voinovich Park, which is mostly a lawn. A garden with trees, plantings, and benches, and/or a playground would be better there than another boring lawn to mow, in my opinion. 

The beautiful things about lawns is they're a blank slate, though. Stuff can always easily be built on them when there is demand. Voinovich Park has tons of events, it even has a kickball league that is played on it.

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I was having such a nice day and you had to remind be about this boondoggle.

 

I know it doesn't work this way once money is allocated for a project but it frustrates me so much when worthwhile projects like the mall land bridge and Irishtown bend (hell even the 2 mil to fix Public Square) are probably searching desperately for money and we are going forward with this.

I actually think this will greatly help out with the pedestrian flow down there. Right now the whole place is fairly schizophrenic. 

I understand the hesitation on this bridge but I do agree it would be nice to make a complete pedestrian loop.  Are there other projects I would rather see completed first?  Absolutely... But unfortunately that's not up to us.  I just hope the design of this bridge is appealing... I can't remember what they settled on.  I remember the original elegant design was changed to a rather ugly version later...

6 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I was having such a nice day and you had to remind be about this boondoggle.

 

I know it doesn't work this way once money is allocated for a project but it frustrates me so much when worthwhile projects like the mall land bridge and Irishtown bend (hell even the 2 mil to fix Public Square) are probably searching desperately for money and we are going forward with this.

 

I didn't like the proposal initially, but now that there are multiple proposals behind FES, I think it might be a gateway to new development. They're building the place up to show the potential. Now you don't have to walk all the way around to the mexican whiskey bar or whatever that place is. Also it may be a quicker walk from Harbor Verandas to FES. If we can make the entire lakefront a continuous walk from E 9th to edgewater, I would greatly appreciate that, although I would appreciate a better design.

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by tastybunns

My problem isn't the bridge itself it's that the bridge is ugly.

As seen in Montréal, these are such an easy way to add vibrant seasonal retail to the waterfront. Very cool looking and no need for expensive infrastructure that takes years of planning and searching for funding. 

It’s definitely designed for function...

Underwhelming, but I’m fine with it ??‍♂️

I'm totally okay with it. We've needed a bridge there for a while and I'm just happy it's FINALLY happening. We don't need to be spending extra money on an extravagant design for this sort of thing (imo). 

Will this require a bridge tender? It would seem like a safety issue to have this fully automated, but would also seem weird to have someone to sit out there all day to operate this. 

That bridge is completely underwhelming.  Don't lower the standards just because we are at least getting a bridge.  Frank Jackson has a poor vision for the city and awful taste.  The guy is simply a dinosaur...just look at the City website and the jersey barriers that remain on Public Square.  The city needs a progressive leader.

2 hours ago, smimes said:

Will this require a bridge tender? It would seem like a safety issue to have this fully automated, but would also seem weird to have someone to sit out there all day to operate this. 

 

I assume yes because they will be building an operators building on the Voinovich Park side.

Burke discussion has been moved to the Burke Lakefront thread, which I am unlocking.

5 minutes ago, X said:

Burke discussion has been moved to the Burke Lakefront thread, which I am unlocking.

 

We have reached PEAK UrbanOhio when the BKL thread has to be locked lol

10 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

We have reached PEAK UrbanOhio when the BKL thread has to be locked lol

 

It got so out-of-hand that the topic bled over to the CVG thread. 

 

Progress.....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3291&CASE=DF 2019-066

 

Downtown/Flats Design Review Case Report

DOCK 30 ALTERATION

 Return to Case List | Start Over | Print Report (PDF format)

Project Information

Downtown/Flats Case #  DF 2019-066

Address:101 Erieside Ave

Company:Dimit Architects

Architect:Dimit Architects | JGI

Description:

The proposed renovation and alteration to an existing warehouse building w/ proposed demolition.

 

36 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

 

The video in that article is fascinating. I didn’t realize that the operator was in the bucket arm assembly itself. He would ride it into the ship’s hull. 

 

And I can see why the preservation group doesn’t agree with this plan. It won’t come close to giving people the full impression of these things. That said, unless some benefactor comes in with a MASSIVE check, this proposal is a nice way to make sure the Huletts aren’t completely forgotten. I really like how they will use pavers to emulate the shadow of a full Hulett unloader. I also like the idea of rectangular landscaping plots to evoke the form of a ship’s hull. The tribute is well designed. 

 

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/hulett-unloader-parts-could-rise-again-as-part-of-cleveland-lakefront-plan.html#

 

What if the Hulett was reassembled and replaced the proposed North Coast Harbor Bridge to carry people from Voinovich Park to The Mather. I would ride it

19 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

The video in that article is fascinating. I didn’t realize that the operator was in the bucket arm assembly itself. He would ride it into the ship’s hull. 

 

And I can see why the preservation group doesn’t agree with this plan. It won’t come close to giving people the full impression of these things. That said, unless some benefactor comes in with a MASSIVE check, this proposal is a nice way to make sure the Huletts aren’t completely forgotten. I really like how they will use pavers to emulate the shadow of a full Hulett unloader. I also like the idea of rectangular landscaping plots to evoke the form of a ship’s hull. The tribute is well designed. 

 

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/hulett-unloader-parts-could-rise-again-as-part-of-cleveland-lakefront-plan.html#

 

I can remember my dad taking my bro’s and I up to Conneaut Harbor in the 80’s now and then to watch the Huletts there unload the giant “boats” (not called ships on the GL); the interplay between the boats, the Huletts, and the trains was mesmerizing to me then and led to my fascination with the American steel industry, Great Lakes shipping, and Midwestern industrial railroading. Intermodal shipping indeed?

George Hulett was born in Conneaut l. And the first Huletts were installed in the harbor there. Sad that they’re all gone. 

The August 22 landmarks meeting that shows the Hulett plaza rendering also shows an updated site plan for the North Coast Harbor development. You’ll see two parallel buildings on pedestals separated by a central road. This is slightly different than the previous site plan.

Bridging the gap: How to connect downtown and the lakefront

https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/downtownlandbridge082119.aspx

 

And here's how to pay for it (or something similar):

 

Cleveland can energize its lakefront in 10 years. Here's how...

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/06/cleveland-can-energize-its-lakefront-in.html

Additionally, Coyne says the landbridge would obstruct views from the large, northern-facing windows in the ballroom area of the Convention Center.

 

In the past I've also heard Mr. Litt oppose the landbridge for this same reason. It's really hard to accept that the views of the lakefront from the Convention Center are more important than access to the lakefront. It's a bizarre way of thinking. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Bridging the gap: How to connect downtown and the lakefront

https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/downtownlandbridge082119.aspx

 

And here's how to pay for it (or something similar):

 

Cleveland can energize its lakefront in 10 years. Here's how...

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/06/cleveland-can-energize-its-lakefront-in.html

 

From the article:

”The Green Ribbon Coalition, a grassroots group that advocates for a continuous ribbon of green along the Lake Erie and Cuyahoga River waterfronts, will host a panel discussion Tuesday, Aug. 27, at 8 a.m., at Merwin's Wharf. “Harbor Face-off: Iconic Footbridge vs. the Landbridge” will feature proponents for competing proposals to connect the harbor to downtown. The pros and cons of each approach will be discussed.”

 

Sounds interesting but I can’t go. Hopefully it is live-streamed somewhere.  

Has anyone seen a section view of the proposed land bridge?  From the renderings I've seen, I don't really understand how the thing meets North Coast Harbor.

 

Also, I feel like I need to create a new advocacy group to represent those of us (maybe only me!) who dislikes both the land bridge and the suspension bridge ideas.

2 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

Has anyone seen a section view of the proposed land bridge?  From the renderings I've seen, I don't really understand how the thing meets North Coast Harbor.

 

Also, I feel like I need to create a new advocacy group to represent those of us (maybe only me!) who dislikes both the land bridge and the suspension bridge ideas.

Do you prefer the Great Lakes Exposition bridge 2.0?

 

Because if so, I'd probably join your group lol. 

 

But that guy "Lynn" hit the nail on the head. Neither option can exist in a vacuum. There needs to be real coordination among all stakeholders, and frankly that level of group effort just doesn't seem to be how things work in this town. But an actual cohesive, thoughtful and realistic master plan is so necessary to get this right. 

Why can’t we compromise and cut a glass wall/terrace into the new sloping hillside, while extending the ballroom out to it? 

 

The suspension bridge idea is a non starter, and will just add to the jacked up, mish mash of a situation that it is now. You want a stupid bridge? Just open up those ugly orange bridges they use for Browns games and save $30 million. Also, why aren’t those open 24/7?

Edited August 21, 20195 yr by marty15

My plan would close that section of the Shoreway, relocate Erieside a little bit south, line it on both sides with new development, and build a wide pedestrian bridge from the east side of Mall C over the tracks to the roof of the new development, with some combination of stairs, elevator and ramp to street level. And my development on the north side of relocated Erieside would erase as much of the stupid lawn in front of the GLSC as possible. 

 

A distant second choice would be a wide pedestrian bridge from the east side of Mall A to the roof of a new development in the GLSC lawn, with some combination of stairs, elevator and ramp to street level.

 

So many of the ideas I see for this area seem to be designed from above, or are too deferential to the Mall, or would cost a bazillion dollars. Rather just focus on a comfortable, not too-long pedestrian route to somewhere packed with as much activity as possible.  

Edited August 21, 20195 yr by StapHanger

2 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

My plan would close that section of the Shoreway, relocate Erieside a little bit south, line it on both sides with new development, and build a wide pedestrian bridge from the east side of Mall C over the tracks to the roof of the new development, with some combination of stairs, elevator and ramp to street level. And my development on the north side of relocated Erieside would erase as much of the stupid lawn in front of the GLSC as possible. 

 

 

In other words, the 1999 North Coast Transportation Center plan.....

Wow it’s depressing going through the old

iterations of Cleveland’s lakefront plans ?

My plan is similar to that one, but would also put stuff along the north side of Erieside and would have a more modest bridge (continuing the existing pedestrian route on the east side of Mall C).  More money on destination/activity, less on infrastructure.

 

Unless the southern part of the NCH area is rethought, seems like it's always going to be a pretty lousy place, so I'd rather not waste money on any high cost pedestrian connection.  At best it will be a sort of pleasant but boring commuter-oriented museum campus/event space with some people on weekends, but on most days it will just go on being pretty barren, oversized, remote feeling and dull.  Connecting that kind of place to a part of downtown that is also like that isn't going to change much for either, I'd guess.

Edited August 21, 20195 yr by StapHanger

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

Additionally, Coyne says the landbridge would obstruct views from the large, northern-facing windows in the ballroom area of the Convention Center.

 

In the past I've also heard Mr. Litt oppose the landbridge for this same reason. It's really hard to accept that the views of the lakefront from the Convention Center are more important than access to the lakefront. It's a bizarre way of thinking. 

 

Agree, that's crazy talk . Plus, the convention center took away our view of the lake with the mall B slope, so all's fair.  

On the one hand I don't like the slope blocking the view of the lake and the fact that the mall is just a big rectangle of grass... but when you see it utilized correctly, such as when the orchestra does the Star Spangled Spectacular, its perfect.  ?‍♂️  99% of the time though it just so underutilized.

 

2 hours ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

 

It's a shame we cant get a fully built and restored model moved there.   Would be an excellent addition to the Science museum~!  This little statue hardly does the real machine any justice! 

15 hours ago, Terdolph said:

I hate the mall B slope.

 

I miss the Hanna Fountains.

I miss the Hanna fountains too, but apparently they were a maintenance nightmare. My favorite sculpture fountain in the whole world however is on mall A the Fountain of Eternal Life.

Does anyone have any of pictures of the Mall B prior to the new convention center.

Quote

Does anyone have any of pictures of the Mall B prior to the new convention center.

Mall B/C prior to 2011 reconstruction 

Edited August 22, 20195 yr by NorthShore647

18 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

Mall B/C prior to 2011 reconstruction 

Yuck