2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Interesting. The big parking lot along the north side of Erieside Avenue is gone.

 

I'm told that, at a recent meeting of downtown Cleveland stakeholder groups, when Richard Pace showed the site plan with all of the surface parking along Erieside, it apparently garnered an audible gasp from the audience. The gasp was probably in response to the parking lots because that was the first thing that people in the audience asked him about. He said the parking was provided at the request of the city which has its agreement with the Cleveland Browns that stipulates that X number of parking spaces be provided near the stadium.

 

But that site plan posted my @marty15 and other recent information suggests that the lakefront plans are VERY dynamic right now.

 

For reference, here's what it used to be...    ...it looks like the only thing that changed was adding back in buildings to the surface lots. So what does FirstEnergy do for parking now?

 

Also, one can see the land bridge and possible multi-modal design in @marty15 zoomed-in image if you look very closely ?

Yes I was going to say it looks like this is the more affordable scaled-down version of the land bridge. This is not the green ribbon version of it though so I'm wondering if this is driven by Pace or the city, should be interesting. 

4 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

 

 So what does FirstEnergy do for parking now? 

Doesn't look like there was that much parking in the first place.  Probably was to be reserved for VIPs and big spenders.  That said, I think it is crazy to park anywhere around the stadium on game day unless you intend to arrive 2 hours before the game and stay an hour or more afterwards.  The crowds leaving have no mercy for moving vehicles.  The closest I ever park to the Stadium is somewhere between east 12th and east 18th

I don't know about you, but I am seeing 2 land bridges.

I would also like to see the Mather moved to the east side of 9th street pier. That would open up space for a marina for the development along that cove.

4 minutes ago, WhatUp said:

I don't know about you, but I am seeing 2 land bridges.

 

That second one looks like that second land bridge is a widening of East 9th with greenery. Nice! That current bridge for East 9th over Route 2 can get CRAZY during big lakefront events, seeing as its the only good way to currently get there...

Edited October 23, 20195 yr by Geowizical

6 minutes ago, WhatUp said:

I don't know about you, but I am seeing 2 land bridges.

 

And something in between them? Is that an additional parking structure with a green roof between the tracks and Shoreway? Is that how the removal of the surface lots was compensated?

 

Unfortunately, the shadow is cast to the south of whatever that structure is -- an impossibility since the sun is to the south.

Edited October 23, 20195 yr by KJP

 

4 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

 

That second one looks like that second land bridge is a widening of East 9th with greenery. Nice! That current bridge for East 9th over Route 2 can get CRAZY during big lakefront events, seeing as its the only good way to currently get there...

That would be a MUCH improved and scenic pedestrian experience. Currently the walk along E9th between downtown proper and Northcoast Harbor is very pedestrian unfriendly and ugly / nothing but concrete.

 

Hopefully some measure of narrowing the E9th Willard garage entry/exit could be involved, or at least making the pedestrian crossing more visible and distinct. There are many walkers / joggers along the street and also many cars that fly in and out of that access. I've seen a fair share of near misses there because of drivers not paying attention or not seeing pedestrians trying to cross.

Edited October 23, 20195 yr by urbanetics_

 

6 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Doesn't look like there was that much parking in the first place.  Probably was to be reserved for VIPs and big spenders.  That said, I think it is crazy to park anywhere around the stadium on game day unless you intend to arrive 2 hours before the game and stay an hour or more afterwards.  The crowds leaving have no mercy for moving vehicles.  The closest I ever park to the Stadium is somewhere between east 12th and east 18th

for people in suites, league officials and NFL personnel.  

Downtown Playground breaks ground. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-groundbreaking-downtown-playground/95-694cbc54-d427-4e6d-a1cd-eeeba9f8d0be

Is there a better neighborhood thread for this post?  E.55th:

 

Cleveland City Council clears way for lakefront apartment project with vote to vacate street

Posted Oct 28, 2019

By Robert Higgs, cleveland.com

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – City Council on Monday approved vacating part of East 55th Street to help clear the way for an apartment complex along Cleveland’s lakefront to expand.

 

Landmark Companies, the owners of The Shoreline apartments on North Marginal Road, wants to add a second apartment building adjacent to its current building, formerly known as Quay 55. The new building would add about 200 residences to the waterfront site.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019/10/cleveland-city-council-clears-way-for-lakefront-apartment-project-with-vote-to-vacate-street.html

Yes @MuRrAy HiLL, this is where this project has been discussed....

 

 

‘A once-in-a-generation opportunity:’ Could Whiskey Island truck traffic plan fix an environmental injustice for Lakeview Terrace residents?

 Rachel Dissell - Nov. 12, 2019

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/a-once-in-a-generation-opportunity-lakeview-terrace-residents-and-supporters-hope-truck-traffic-plan-will-fix-an-environmental-injustice.html

 

"Cleveland officials are exploring plans to rebuild or replace the aging and unreliable Willow Avenue lift bridge, which spans the Cuyahoga river channel from the Flats to the southeast end of Whiskey Island.  ... Alternative 33 would undoubtedly be the most expensive because it would require creating a new connection to Whiskey Island via West 45th Street. That plan currently calls for demolishing or abandoning the Willow Avenue lift bridge, which would be unpopular with Ontario Stone Corp. and create what some see as untenable options for recreational trail users. Some have floated the idea of a two-bridge option, one that creates a new connection, in addition to rehabbing, replacing or redesigning how the Willow Avenue bridge operates. It’s not clear whether the city would consider that."

 

(there may be a better thread for this, but it relates to the Whiskey Island connector bridge mentioned upthread)

 

Edited November 12, 20195 yr by NorthShore647

Pubic meeting regarding Willow bridge also mentioned in Canal Basin Park and Lake Link Trail thread:

 

I don't think a W 45th / Old River bridge seems likely, but is an interesting proposition. Reducing trucks through Lakeview Terrace, the W 25th/Shoreway interchange and Ohio City by ~80% would really help the neighborhoods, but a more circuitous route to Whiskey Island/Wendy Park and the lake for bikes and pedestrians would hurt a lot of the potential of the Lake Link trail (and all of the ones which connect to it). Preserving the Willow bridge and adding a new one at and W 45th is even more unlikely, but it would be great to have the benefits of both. For now I'll add it to my long list of theoretical infrastructure projects (Sim City list) for the region. 

 

If a new lift bridge is built at W 45th (assuming it would be a lift to preserve access to to the marinas, Cargill and Great lakes Shipyard) it would be the cities first "new" movable bridge since 1957(excluding the Columbus Ave bridge renovation/replacement). 

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Does GEIS have control of most of the property north of the Shoreway and east of Cumberland?

No.

15 hours ago, KJP said:

The city has wanted to extend East 18th street North to the Shoreway for a long time so that it can relieve East 9th street of some of its traffic. I recall the city having some interest in making an intersection rather than an interchange between East 18th and the Shoreway and then being able to restructure the Shoreway west of there as a boulevard. Of course, that would take a lot of money but ODOT seems to be in a spending mood lately so who knows?

Converting that section of the shoreway to a boulevard sounds good, but the rail tracks would still be there.  And then there is the issue of the elevation drop north of the bluffs.  It seems like the best solution is to leave the shoreway as is and cap sections of it with land bridges as they are doing in Philadelphia.

 

It's a cool idea. But it's not close to realization. It's in the very early stages. They still have to get air rights from the railroad, all of their private financing, plus a substantial public subsidy in a city with lower rents than Cleveland's: 

https://www.twincities.com/2019/10/21/ramsey-county-to-consider-development-deal-extension-for-riversedge-including-80m-public-subsidy-request/

Lakefront land sold for apartments near downtown Cleveland

November 27, 2019 03:38 PM

STAN BULLARD 

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/lakefront-land-sold-apartments-near-downtown-cleveland#

 

 

Quote

Tax break for Cleveland lakefront development gets final approval with Mayor Frank Jackson’s signature

 

By Robert Higgs, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Mayor Frank Jackson signed legislation Wednesday approving tax incentives that will aid a project to build apartments along Cleveland’s lakefront.

 

...Landmark plans to add a second apartment building adjacent to its current building, formerly known as Quay 55 and now doing business as The Shoreline. The new building would add about 200 residences to the waterfront site just west of East 55th Street.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019/12/tax-break-for-cleveland-lakefront-development-gets-final-approval-with-mayor-frank-jacksons-signature.html

As Cleveland becomes more of a Great Lakes cruise destination on Victory Cruise Lines, are their any updates on the Port's C&I development?

 

https://trib.al/fyoDsij

Edited December 15, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Last night I attended an awesome event hosted by the Cleveland APA. It was a celebration of 15 years (to the day!!) when the Cleveland Lakefront Plan was enacted. There was a wide array of panelists, including:

 

Plan Makers:
Chris Ronayne, President, University Circle Inc.
Debbie Berry, Vice President of Community Development, University Circle Inc.
Paul Volpe, past president, City Architecture
Gregg Calpino, Principal, SmithGroup

 

Future of the Lakefront
d*ck Pace, President, Cumberland Development
Brian Zimmerman, CEO, Cleveland Metropakrs
Freddy Collier, Jr. Director, City of Cleveland Planning Commission
Tony Coyne, Attorney, Mansour Gavin & Former Chair of Cleveland Planning Commission

 

 

 

I appreciated having all of these voices together in the same room to share their experiences and insights. Several key takeaways:

 

-Emphasis on lakefront connections from E9th to E55th / Gordon Park 

-Burke airport best approach = "nibbling" at edges to develop. Too much here can suck the life away form neighborhood and downtown development. Essentially developing Burke right now = development momentum elsewhere in the city would slow and/or stop. So honestly maybe 20 years down the road Burke will be a major discussion, but for now it's best to consider it but not make it a focus of all our efforts.

-Serious interest in reconnecting the urban grid to the lake (ex. Mall C land bridge, additional bridges/connections, especially on the east side to cross I-90)

-Citizens make the difference, stand up for what you believe in, be vocal and visible, and don't give up.

-This is more than just a lakefront discussion, it's one of all our waterways, inclusive of the Cuyahoga River; view the river, the lake and its tributaries as tissue that holds our city together and spurs development

-Riverfront connections - reference made that the Flats East Boardwalk is beautiful, but suddenly ends as you walk south and does not connect and continue on along the riverfront

-Waterfronts spark development - Freddy specifically called out the growing Flats East Bank, future Nautica property potential on the west bank, and, interestingly, he briefly mentioned Sherwin Williams when discussing this riverfront development. I know that with City Block momentum and the push for SHW to reconsider the Bedrock site, this riverfront site has speculated to be revived as possible location for their new HQ. I find it interesting how Cleveland's planning director would go so far as to specifically call this out. Perhaps just a reference to the on-going HQ site hunt and the continued efforts to get it on Bedrock's site, or maybe he is hinting at a more finalized location here at Bedrock instead of Jacobs/Weston that has yet to be announced...only time will tell.

 

Overall, those are my biggest takeaways. It was standing room only, and the networking / social time was enjoyable as well. I loved seeing so many planners, residents and advocates join together to support the efforts made along our lakefront the past 15 years and to continue progressing for many more to come.

Edited December 18, 20195 yr by urbanetics_

Thanks for the report @urbanetics_! One question. You mentioned....

 

Quote

Serious interest in reconnecting the urban grid to the lake (ex. Mall C land bridge, additional bridges/connections, especially on the east side to cross I-90)

 

Did you mean I-90 or the Route 2 section of the Shoreway? I can see East 18th crossing the Shoreway. Or were they suggesting something like extending East 40th or East 49th over I-90?

9 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

Last night I attended an awesome event hosted by the Cleveland APA. It was a celebration of 15 years (to the day!!) when the Cleveland Lakefront Plan was enacted. There was a wide array of panelists, including:

 

Plan Makers:
Chris Ronayne, President, University Circle Inc.
Debbie Berry, Vice President of Community Development, University Circle Inc.
Paul Volpe, past president, City Architecture
Gregg Calpino, Principal, SmithGroup

 

Future of the Lakefront
d*ck Pace, President, Cumberland Development
Brian Zimmerman, CEO, Cleveland Metropakrs
Freddy Collier, Jr. Director, City of Cleveland Planning Commission
Tony Coyne, Attorney, Mansour Gavin & Former Chair of Cleveland Planning Commission

 

 

 

I appreciated having all of these voices together in the same room to share their experiences and insights. Several key takeaways:

 

-Emphasis on lakefront connections from E9th to E55th / Gordon Park 

-Burke airport best approach = "nibbling" at edges to develop. Too much here can suck the life away form neighborhood and downtown development. Essentially developing Burke right now = development momentum elsewhere in the city would slow and/or stop. So honestly maybe 20 years down the road Burke will be a major discussion, but for now it's best to consider it but not make it a focus of all our efforts.

-Serious interest in reconnecting the urban grid to the lake (ex. Mall C land bridge, additional bridges/connections, especially on the east side to cross I-90)

-Citizens make the difference, stand up for what you believe in, be vocal and visible, and don't give up.

-This is more than just a lakefront discussion, it's one of all our waterways, inclusive of the Cuyahoga River; view the river, the lake and its tributaries as tissue that holds our city together and spurs development

-Riverfront connections - reference made that the Flats East Boardwalk is beautiful, but suddenly ends as you walk south and does not connect and continue on along the riverfront

-Waterfronts spark development - Freddy specifically called out the growing Flats East Bank, future Nautica property potential on the west bank, and, interestingly, he briefly mentioned Sherwin Williams when discussing this riverfront development. I know that with City Block momentum and the push for SHW to reconsider the Bedrock site, this riverfront site has speculated to be revived as possible location for their new HQ. I find it interesting how Cleveland's planning director would go so far as to specifically call this out. Perhaps just a reference to the on-going HQ site hunt and the continued efforts to get it on Bedrock's site, or maybe he is hinting at a more finalized location here at Bedrock instead of Jacobs/Weston that has yet to be announced...only time will tell.

 

Overall, those are my biggest takeaways. It was standing room only, and the networking / social time was enjoyable as well. I loved seeing so many planners, residents and advocates join together to support the efforts made along our lakefront the past 15 years and to continue progressing for many more to come.

Okay I am going to be that person.  What exactly were they "celebrating".  I can't imagine any major American city that talks and discusses and plans things like this as much as we without getting anything major done.  And while the "current" plan is ONLY 15 years old the yacking and hand wringing has been going on for more like 40 years.

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

Thanks for the report @urbanetics_! One question. You mentioned....

 

 

Did you mean I-90 or the Route 2 section of the Shoreway? I can see East 18th crossing the Shoreway. Or were they suggesting something like extending East 40th or East 49th over I-90?

Nothing was specifically mentioned. Freddy did emphasize the importance of making the grid connect all the way to the lake, but there was no exact mention of where/what/how, other than the possible Mall C land bridge. Some of the discussions made me believe it was in reference to more pedestrian bridges and eastern neighborhood connections across I-90 (perhaps similar in concept to the current at Gordon Park between E72 and MLK).

 

I think E18th crossing the Shoreway makes so much sense though. Especially with the proposed outlets, this would be a really nice way to integrate this development into the city grid and provide more access up toward the lake.

13 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Okay I am going to be that person.  What exactly were they "celebrating".  I can't imagine any major American city that talks and discusses and plans things like this as much as we without getting anything major done.  And while the "current" plan is ONLY 15 years old the yacking and hand wringing has been going on for more like 40 years.

 

While it can definitely be frustrating to go 15 years and have nothing but slow, incremental change, there really have been many efforts being made and plans implemented. Just to name a few:

 

-Metroparks Whiskey Island bridge/connector trail

-Edgewater Park enhancements and beach house

-Lakefront bikeway

-Entire Battery Park development and pedestrian tunnel connections to Edgewater

-E9th St Pier / Voinovich Park / North Coast Marina (including Nuevo, Harbor Veranda, and an addition proposed apartment building across the street on the east side of the pier)

-Cumberland's future plans for the port land behind the Browns stadium (forgot to mention this earlier - but he is very seriously moving forward and said all of the funding is lined up. He said they are ready to break ground - and that their plans are very closely following those set forth by the Lakefront Plan).

-Shoreline phase 2 apartments along N Marginal Rd / near E55th

-East 55th St Marina enhancements + new restaurant

-Plus all of the riverfront investment that has been made (ex. Flats East, towpath trail) that spurs from re-prioritizing of our waterways, all stemming in part from this Waterfront Plan

-Add in all future development not listed here and likely to occur at some point down the road. Chain reaction of investment and development that spreads into neighborhoods...

 

So I'd argue that, in fact, there is a lot to celebrate.

Edited December 18, 20195 yr by urbanetics_

10 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

 

While it can definitely be frustrating to go 15 years and have nothing but slow, incremental change, there really have been many efforts being made and plans implemented. Just to name a few:

 

-Metroparks Whiskey Island bridge/connector trail

-Edgewater Park enhancements and beach house

-Lakefront bikeway

-Entire Battery Park development and pedestrian tunnel connections to Edgewater

-E9th St Pier / Voinovich Park / North Coast Marina (including Nuevo, Harbor Veranda, and an addition proposed apartment building across the street on the east side of the pier)

-Cumberland's future plans for the port land behind the Browns stadium (forgot to mention this earlier - but he is very seriously moving forward and said all of the funding is lined up. He said they are ready to break ground - and that their plans are very closely following those set forth by the Lakefront Plan).

-Shoreline phase 2 apartments along N Marginal Rd / near E55th

-East 55th St Marina enhancements + new restaurant

-Plus all of the riverfront investment that has been made (ex. Flats East, towpath trail) that spurs from re-prioritizing of our waterways, all stemming in part from this Waterfront Plan

-Add in all future development not listed here and likely to occur at some point down the road. Chain reaction of investment and development that spreads into neighborhoods...

 

So I'd argue that, in fact, there is a lot to celebrate.

Good for you @urbanetics_  Stay positive.  I get cranky after following Cleveland development for 50 years and seeing one major plan after another all over town getting proposed and then going down the toilet without a second thought.  What we really need is a lakefront czar and lots of $$$

^We are clearly in a different era.  Just look at Ohio City as an example of that change. The development from there is rapid and very infectious.  It seems we are close to seeing even the W25th market plaza getting knocked down in mere weeks to months for the mixed-use timber towers. These projects wouldn’t have happened 10 years ago let alone 20, 30, or 40 years ago.   

 

11 minutes ago, audidave said:

^We are clearly in a different era.  Just look at Ohio City as an example of that change. The development from there is rapid and very infectious.  It seems we are close to seeing even the W25th market plaza getting knocked down in mere weeks to months for the mixed-use timber towers. These projects wouldn’t have happened 10 years ago let alone 20, 30, or 40 years ago.   

 

 

Sadly this is mainly the results of national trends towards re-urbanization, and not by any "visionary" leadership in this community or region.   Though it is welcomed! ?

Getting back to the lakefront, do we know what Haslam's plans are for the stadium?    

Sadly, one of the City's greatest assets, the lakefront, had not been a priority since the Great Lakes Exposition in 1936-1937. As Cleburger mentioned above, there has been a general lack of visionary leadership to make the lakefront a priority.

 

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/71

Edited December 18, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Sadly this is mainly the results of national trends towards re-urbanization, and not by any "visionary" leadership in this community or region.   Though it is welcomed! ?

 

I don't want "visionary" leadership, because those visions could be wrong. (After all, Robert Moses had a "vision"). What I want are 50 people with small visions that get done from the bottom up.

15 hours ago, KJP said:

I don't know who frustrates me more....the person who asks another human being what the future will be or the human being who is so deluded about their own greatness to think that they could offer a concrete answer.  ? 

SO TRUE but on this forum I believe most of us enjoy hearing the opinions and educated predictions of each of us!  And collective we can be kinda like a SUPER COMPUTER with each of us contributing our unique knowledge....

 

AND I HOPE THAT EVERYONE HAS A NICE HOLIDAY SEASON!!

Edited December 18, 20195 yr by Larry1962

2 hours ago, skiwest said:

Getting back to the lakefront, do we know what Haslam's plans are for the stadium?    

 

The rumblings I've heard is that they want to stay where they are. Perhaps it could involve a significant rebuild, such as with a permanent roof or retractable roof. If so, it means the Browns wouldn't be able to play there for a year or two -- much like with the Bears when they gutted and rebuilt Soldier Field. It's possible the Browns could also move downstate, such as to the OSU's Horseshoe or Crew Stadium for a couple of seasons. The Haslams may have been trying to cultivate the Central Ohio market for just that purpose.

 

And look for an announcement regarding a new development partner for the city-owned land.

 

1 hour ago, Larry1962 said:

SO TRUE but on this forum I believe most of us enjoy hearing the opinions and educated predictions of each of us!  And collective we can be kinda like a SUPER COMPUTER with each of us contributing our unique knowledge....

 

AND I HOPE THAT EVERYONE HAS A NICE HOLIDAY SEASON!!

 

Except predictions don't mean anything. I consider myself well-versed on rail and transit issues, and I couldn't tell you if we're going to have a Cleveland multi-modal station in the next five years (or ever) or if RTA's railcars will last long enough until they're replaced. I won't even make a prediction of where SH will build its HQ because there are always surprises. I couldn't foresee a new lakefront development partner coming onto the scene just a couple of weeks after d*ck Pace issued his new lakefront plan in September.

 

So I don't know if the outlet mall is going to be built, let alone when. I know they're very serious about building it, but so are a lot of developers. Obviously some are most serious than others, but they have a long way to go before they can built what they want.

 

Nothing is guaranteed. I live day by day for that very reason.

Edited December 18, 20195 yr by KJP

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

The rumblings I've heard is that they want to stay where they are. Perhaps it could involve a significant rebuild, such as with a permanent roof or retractable roof. If so, it means the Browns wouldn't be able to play there for a year or two -- much like with the Bears when they gutted and rebuilt Soldier Field. It's possible the Browns could also move downstate, such as to the OSU's Horseshoe or Crew Stadium for a couple of seasons. The Haslams may have been trying to cultivate the Central Ohio market for just that purpose.

 

And look for an announcement regarding a new development partner for the city-owned land.

 

Quote

It's possible the Browns could also move downstate, such as to the OSU's Horseshoe or Crew Stadium for a couple of seasons.

I would approve of this.

 

Who knows?..maybe it could be permanent...The Columbus Browns !  ?  

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

 

I would approve of this.

 

Who knows?..maybe it could be permanent...The Columbus Browns !  ?  

 

 

 

 

^

The stadium at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton would be closer, but unfortunately, the capacity is only 23,000. 

6 minutes ago, skiwest said:

The stadium at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton would be closer, but unfortunately, the capacity is only 23,000. 

 

Which is why Crew Stadium probably wouldn't work since it's even smaller.

27 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

 

I would approve of this.

 

Who knows?..maybe it could be permanent...The Columbus Browns !  ?  

 

 

 

 

Please yes take them

Infocision in Akron is 30k. Great stadium, but Horseshoe would be epic.

 

Anyhow I'm really looking forward to seeing future concepts for the stadium site and environs. 

Seeing how the Browns haven't made the Playoffs in over two decades, and as it doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon....?.... that gives them nine(9) months a year that they can work on the stadium with no one in it.  Also remember that they could begin work during the season similar to how the Cavs did at the Gund/Q/RMF, which should be easier seeing as there are only 8 games a year played in the stadium, then begin the big overhead work on the roof in January and you have 9 months to finish.

 

However, if that is not enough time worst case they could just play one season in another location and that would provide 21 months for the updates.  If 9 months isn't enough(which it should be), then I think 21 months is plenty of time for any kind of updates being added to the current stadium.

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

The rumblings I've heard is that they want to stay where they are. Perhaps it could involve a significant rebuild, such as with a permanent roof or retractable roof. If so, it means the Browns wouldn't be able to play there for a year or two -- much like with the Bears when they gutted and rebuilt Soldier Field. It's possible the Browns could also move downstate, such as to the OSU's Horseshoe or Crew Stadium for a couple of seasons. The Haslams may have been trying to cultivate the Central Ohio market for just that purpose.

 

And look for an announcement regarding a new development partner for the city-owned land.

 

 

Except predictions don't mean anything. I consider myself well-versed on rail and transit issues, and I couldn't tell you if we're going to have a Cleveland multi-modal station in the next five years (or ever) or if RTA's railcars will last long enough until they're replaced. I won't even make a prediction of where SH will build its HQ because there are always surprises. I couldn't foresee a new lakefront development partner coming onto the scene just a couple of weeks after d*ck Pace issued his new lakefront plan in September.

 

So I don't know if the outlet mall is going to be built, let alone when. I know they're very serious about building it, but so are a lot of developers. Obviously some are most serious than others, but they have a long way to go before they can built what they want.

 

Nothing is guaranteed. I live day by day for that very reason.

So is D*ck PACE completely OUT as the lakefront developer?

 

I figured that another large developer would join PACE's PARTNERSHIP to provide more financial muscle and also some one who could perhaps more easier attract worthy anchor tenants of both the office and retail types.

 

Or maybe have the Browns, Science Center, and or the Rock Hall as partners.

Edited December 18, 20195 yr by Larry1962
Typos

I don't think he's completely out.

On 7/12/2019 at 1:31 PM, jeremyck01 said:

 

After seeing the 3D renderings above, I don’t mind that these are all lower rise buildings. It adds a good bit of density. I know we’ve discussed it here before as well, but if I recall correctly, there are height restrictions around here as well due to the airport. 

 

On 7/12/2019 at 3:17 PM, Cleburger said:

 

Definite restrictions due to the airport.   Even the buildings in this rendering look like they may be too high.  

They would probably have to be no taller than Harbor Verandas.

4 minutes ago, skiwest said:

 

They would probably have to be no taller than Harbor Verandas.

 

They can step up taller the farther west you go away from the airport.

Yes, I'm actually quoting my own tweet because I'm too lazy to upload my own oversized photo....

 

 

According to city building permit, Sandrine restaurant/bar and Cute for Coffee are going to open in the Harbor Verandas building

^Is the Mexican place still there or do these replace it? I hope they are additions...

 

Nuevo is still there.  It is in a different building.