3 hours ago, theguv said:

More lakefront related, less development related.......Recently learned via an email that Pace has an idea to create a beach along the end of the e.9 pier.  This would require a jetty, most likely, even though its inside the break wall.  He had initially planned a floating fresh water pool, which i think was based on an implementation in Europe.  He has ambitious plans to clean the water using an updated vesion of a Living Machine.  I sincerely hope he can figure it out.  Ice skating inside the break wall in winter would be another attractant to our Great Lake. 

Cleveland needs and deserves a stronger connection to its Great Lake. More places to touch and experience the water downtown would be fantastic. DId you know that we’ve destroyed 95% of lake-shore wetlands in the last 50+ years? Wetlands can be thought of as the kidneys of the watershed ecology. They filter and clean water while providing habitat for myriad plant and animal Species. 

 

If it's anything like the Badeschiff in Berlin, that would be incredible. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Badeschiff/@52.4978644,13.4515841,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a84e55b3f927d9:0x1d3d804d4ffad2c8!8m2!3d52.4978612!4d13.4537728

Edited September 23, 20195 yr by smimes

That would be great.

Haven't seen this posted anywhere. 

 

Lakefront makes sense for Cleveland Browns, says attorney who helped build FirstEnergy Stadium

Author: Mark Naymik

Published: 8:56 PM EDT September 22, 2019

 

CLEVELAND — Cleveland’s lakefront, which has been slowly developing over the last two decades, is a good place for a football stadium, says attorney Fred Nance.

Global managing partner of the law firm Squire Patton Boggs, Nance negotiated in 1995 with the NFL on behalf of then-Cleveland Mayor White to keep football in town, after Art Modell, the owner of the old Browns, bolted for Baltimore.

 

While the city leaders considered other sites, including a couple near Gateway, the sports complex that’s home to Progressive Field and Rocket Mortgage Field House, they settled on the footprint of old Municipal Stadium on the lakefront. Some critics have argued that the massive structure stymied expansion along the lakefront.  

 

“But ultimately the NFL was as interested as Mayor White in trying to keep it here at this location because we all foresaw the development of lakefront and the fact that Cleveland was going to become a place that had a vibrant downtown,” he said in a recently in an interview with Channel 3 outside FirstEnergy Stadium. “And a lot of those predictions have come true and I think the Browns had been part of some of those discussions about lakefront development.”

 

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/lakefront-makes-sense-for-browns-says-attorney-who-helped-build-firstenergy-stadium/95-fad6c61e-54d3-48ec-89e3-8f5819e454a5

Also getting mixed messages on this one too. One developer says that the Haslams aren't very interested in the lakefront and aren't doing any planning for the future down there. And....another says the Haslams are very interested in the lakefront and are trying to lure a corporate HQ down there as part of their stadium development. So, welcome to the wonderful world of pursuit of truth.

50 minutes ago, KJP said:

Also getting mixed messages on this one too. One developer says that the Haslams aren't very interested in the lakefront and aren't doing any planning for the future down there. And....another says the Haslams are very interested in the lakefront and are trying to lure a corporate HQ down there as part of their stadium development. So, welcome to the wonderful world of pursuit of truth.

Jimmy is notorious for saying different things to different people in the NFL world, so not a huge surprise to hear that.   

Fred Nance is part of the reason Cleveland got such a bad deal with the albatross, I mean stadium. The guy isn't one of the good guys.

16 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Fred Nance is part of the reason Cleveland got such a bad deal with the albatross, I mean stadium. The guy isn't one of the good guys.

 

How so?   If you are talking about it not being covered, that was the strong preference of the active fan base.

On 9/22/2019 at 4:30 PM, tastybunns said:

Maybe we can see another underbudget hilton tower the likes of the one in Columbus under construction right now, but that's for sure something for convention or hilton thread.

 

Edit: I'm sure we can take plenty of load on the hotel market, the Marriott in Detroit is the third tallest hotel in the western hemisphere, and there's just about as much to do in Detroit as there is in Cleveland. But Detroit is a bigger yet more unappealing city imo. If we can book larger conventions and events the likes of the International Film Fest, I'm sure there would be no problem centralizing the malls around hotel development.

 

When it was the Westin it was called Fort Westin.   The RenCen was meant to be a more or less self contained unit, an island in Detroit immediately adjacent to Cobo Hall's high profile conventions and the bridge to the Windsor Ballet.

 

More detailed view...

Playground north of Great Lakes Science Center - groundbreaking on Oct 28 at 2:30

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/10/first-ever-playground-planned-for-downtown-cleveland.html

 

“North Coast Harbor will be home to the first playground in downtown Cleveland.

Downtown Cleveland Partnership is staying mum until the free family groundbreaking, at 2:30 p.m. Oct. 28. But the playground will be built north of the Great Lakes Science Center, on the grass near the William G. Mather steamship.”

Might be worth a separate thread someday. This could be a huge project for the region....

 

 

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 16, 2019

Planning starts for cross-county Lake Erie trail, erosion control

 

A large investment in Greater Cleveland's greatest natural asset could result from a multi-jurisdictional planning effort announced on Oct. 17 at the Lakewood Women's Club Pavilion at  Lakewood Park. The investment could result in a transformative economic and quality of life payback for the region.

Cuyahoga County Executive Armond Budish announced $500,000 for conceptual-level planning for the cross-county Lake Erie Trail along more than 30 miles of the county's shoreline.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/planning-starts-for-cross-county-lake.html

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

Might be worth a separate thread someday. This could be a huge project for the region....

 

 

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 16, 2019

Planning starts for cross-county Lake Erie trail, erosion control

 

A large investment in Greater Cleveland's greatest natural asset could result from a multi-jurisdictional planning effort announced on Oct. 17 at the Lakewood Women's Club Pavilion at  Lakewood Park. The investment could result in a transformative economic and quality of life payback for the region.

Cuyahoga County Executive Armond Budish announced $500,000 for conceptual-level planning for the cross-county Lake Erie Trail along more than 30 miles of the county's shoreline.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/planning-starts-for-cross-county-lake.html

Yes! I've always wondered (outside of our industrial past) why we've never activated the waterfront (and river) for that matter. Cheers to that idea finally being realized!

12 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Yes! I've always wondered (outside of our industrial past) why we've never activated the waterfront (and river) for that matter. Cheers to that idea finally being realized!

You've answered your own question.  Our River and lakefront has never been recreational, it's always been a working industrial land.  Bratenahl going east and Lakewood going west is where the recreational portions of the lakefront are in NE Ohio.  Edgewater was horrible back in the day.  We always went to Mentor Headland or Geneva.

 

Now with re-population, in city neighborhoods, on or adjacent to the lake, people want access to the lake .   

8 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

You've answered your own question.  Our River and lakefront has never been recreational, it's always been a working industrial land.  Bratenahl going east and Lakewood going west is where the recreational portions of the lakefront are in NE Ohio.  Edgewater was horrible back in the day.  We always went to Mentor Headland or Geneva.

 

Now with re-population, in city neighborhoods, on or adjacent to the lake, people want access to the lake .   

I know I'm  a broken record in saying this but I've been here probably about four years now and I've heard horror stories about Edgewater, really looking forward to this. I wonder if I90 realignment by the old power plant/E71 is still something powers that be are considering?

 

Also, I always look to pgh as a comparison, with water trails and whatnot. I lived there a year, and they've also had a recent epiphany when it comes to their rivers- they've built trails and whatnot alongside them and have parks planned too.

Edited October 17, 20195 yr by GISguy
Was typing on my phone

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

I know I'm  a broken record in saying this but I've been here probably about four years now amd I've heard horror stories about Edgewater, really looking forward to this. I wonder if I90 realignment by the old power plant/E71 is still something powers that be are considering?

 

Also, I always look to pgh as a comparison, with water trails and whatnot. I lived there a year, and they've also had a recent epiphany when it comes to their rivers- they've built trails and whatnot alongside them amd have parks planned too.

 

I’m also a big fan of the I-90 realignment at Gordon Park proposal. That would create a massive redevelopment opportunity right along our greatest resource (the lake). Although that would also be spectacularly expensive. It’d be interesting to collect all the various proposals in the area with their costs to see how we would prioritize them. (Specifically ones that would likely require government spending: Transit proposals, parks, lakefront, riverfront, etc.)

Edited October 17, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian

 

10 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

You've answered your own question.  Our River and lakefront has never been recreational, it's always been a working industrial land.  Bratenahl going east and Lakewood going west is where the recreational portions of the lakefront are in NE Ohio.  Edgewater was horrible back in the day.  We always went to Mentor Headland or Geneva.

 

Now with re-population, in city neighborhoods, on or adjacent to the lake, people want access to the lake .   

 

Euclid Beach Park going east.   Directly east of Bratenhal is the Easterly water treatment plant.   Then there's some private residential areas that are residents only (with the strong support of NEORSD and Polensek), then the Euclid Beach towers.

I didn't know the Whiskey Island connector bridge was going to have a redesign. This is the 3rd Miguel Rosales designed pedestrian bridge in town to be scraped. 

 

"McDermott said the design couldn’t meet safety standards required by Norfolk Southern or potential stress from ice and winds without adding significantly to its cost. Metroparks ultimately turned to KS Associates in Elyria, a civil engineering firm, for a design that met the railroad’s requirements. The project includes a 10-foot-high mesh barrier with a 2-inch-wide grid on both sides of the 12-foot-wide bridge."

Link: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/10/metroparks-awards-6m-to-build-wendy-park-bridge-connecting-lakefront-to-towpath-lake-link-trails.html

 

19 hours ago, KJP said:

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 16, 2019

Planning starts for cross-county Lake Erie trail, erosion control

 

A large investment in Greater Cleveland's greatest natural asset could result from a multi-jurisdictional planning effort announced on Oct. 17 at the Lakewood Women's Club Pavilion at  Lakewood Park. The investment could result in a transformative economic and quality of life payback for the region.

Cuyahoga County Executive Armond Budish announced $500,000 for conceptual-level planning for the cross-county Lake Erie Trail along more than 30 miles of the county's shoreline.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/planning-starts-for-cross-county-lake.html

 

Great to see this scoop. Saw some more details here: http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25475

Debbie Downer here. I'm almost as worried as I am optimistic about these efforts. But my main concern is that this plan will exacerbate the erosion problem, as many ill advised attempts at erosion-control have done before. I'd very much like to hear word that the best coastal engineers in the country will be consulting. There's just no reason to believe that the county engineer and the dreaded Army Corps of Engineers has the necessary experience to get this right on their own. 

This is a TLCI plan at heart, so there are a limited number of high-quality consultants that can be chosen. It cannot just be accomplished by the engineer and army corps.

4 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

This is a TLCI plan at heart, so there are a limited number of high-quality consultants that can be chosen. It cannot just be accomplished by the engineer and army corps.

 

What is TLCI? 

Transportation for livable communities initiatives grant

4 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

Transportation for livable communities initiatives grant

 

Okay then. Until they hire consultants who know what the heck they're doing then this plan is not a good one. 

22 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

Okay then. Until they hire consultants who know what the heck they're doing then this plan is not a good one. 

 

Consultants who are TLCI-capable include the likes of WSP and AECOM. They are global companies that can pull in staff who are well versed in Great Lakes geology and hydrology, Army Corps regs, etc. Besides, this is just a conceptual level plan. If they were doing project-level engineering and environmental clearance, this $500,000 plan would become a $30 million plan -- which ultimately it will be, albeit in bits and pieces as sections of the shoreline are improved incrementally.

They should try listening to the environmental geniuses commenting at cleveland.com

34 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Consultants who are TLCI-capable include the likes of WSP and AECOM. They are global companies that can pull in staff who are well versed in Great Lakes geology and hydrology, Army Corps regs, etc. Besides, this is just a conceptual level plan. If they were doing project-level engineering and environmental clearance, this $500,000 plan would become a $30 million plan -- which ultimately it will be, albeit in bits and pieces as sections of the shoreline are improved incrementally.

 

Okay. Here's all I'll say for the time being. The vast majority of erosion issues in Ohio - and really everywhere - is building  too close to the water.  Beaches are the product of erosion, and stopping erosion destroys beaches. Re-naturalizing the shoreline is the proper way to go, not armoring it with more cement, rocks and rebar. 

@surfohio, if you want an idea of what this project may look like, google euclid’s waterfront improvement plan, if you haven’t seen it before.

4 hours ago, CbusTransit said:

@surfohio, if you want an idea of what this project may look like, google euclid’s waterfront improvement plan, if you haven’t seen it before.

Yes, thanks. I have seen it. While I'm ecstatic the issue has finally gotten needed attention,  I think that the plan relies far too much on armoring the shoreline. I'm skeptical about the value of those pocket beaches among all of those rock jetties as these erosion control structures create dangerous and unpredictable currents. The choice has been made to preserve the land at the expense of the natural sand beaches that are supposed to be there. It may be that there just isn't the money or the political will or enough cooperative effort to get back to where we were. But this armoring, once completed, is the decision we have to live with for the next hundred years. 

 

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/shoreline-armoring.html

Shoreline armoring has both beneficial and detrimental effects. Armored shorelines can prevent sandy beaches, wetlands, and other intertidal areas from moving inland as the land erodes or sea levels rise, but they also have the potential to eliminate habitat for marine organisms and beach front for the public by restricting the natural movement of sediments. The key to shoreline stabilization, if it is required, is to use a site-specific stabilization method that balances the needs of the public and the needs of the natural system.

 

 

2 hours ago, surfohio said:

Yes, thanks. I have seen it. While I'm ecstatic the issue has finally gotten needed attention,  I think that the plan relies far too much on armoring the shoreline. I'm skeptical about the value of those pocket beaches among all of those rock jetties as these erosion control structures create dangerous and unpredictable currents. The choice has been made to preserve the land at the expense of the natural sand beaches that are supposed to be there. It may be that there just isn't the money or the political will or enough cooperative effort to get back to where we were. But this armoring, once completed, is the decision we have to live with for the next hundred years. 

 

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/shoreline-armoring.html

Shoreline armoring has both beneficial and detrimental effects. Armored shorelines can prevent sandy beaches, wetlands, and other intertidal areas from moving inland as the land erodes or sea levels rise, but they also have the potential to eliminate habitat for marine organisms and beach front for the public by restricting the natural movement of sediments. The key to shoreline stabilization, if it is required, is to use a site-specific stabilization method that balances the needs of the public and the needs of the natural system.

 

 

Very informative.  Thank you.

Flying into FLL, can’t help but wonder, why is this in Hollywood, Florida, not Cleveland’s lakefront? 

3 hours ago, surfohio said:

The key to shoreline stabilization, if it is required, is to use a site-specific stabilization method that balances the needs of the public and the needs of the natural system.

 

 

Understand the fearful pessimism, but as stated up-thread—no one has posited a 30-mile long cement/rebar system. In fact, Euclid’s project someone dismantles such systems. Additionally, Lake Erie’s southern shore is not Miami’s eastern shore, and a comparison to sand beaches is both unfair and incorrect. 
 

Ohio IS home to native bluffs that ARE suspectible to erosion, regardless to natural or man made sandy beaches. In addition, as they are natural bluffs, you can’t quite replace them with “natural swampland” either. 
 

You could argue that we shouldn’t have destroyed all the Lake Erie swamps and we shouldn’t have built on the susceptible bluffs. As a recovering south Florida marine biologist, I love arguing we shouldn’t have destroyed the coral reefs and mangrove forests to replace them with sandy beaches. But in both cases, we did—so the point is moot. 
 

Now, as a recovering Cleveland-trained environmental planner, I’d say at this early stage, we have the right types of minds (Metroparks, Port, Euclid, etc.) involves early in the process to get this right. Let’s turn that fearful pessimism into hopeful optimism!! ?

26 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

Flying into FLL, can’t help but wonder, why is this in Hollywood, Florida, not Cleveland’s lakefront? 

 

I drive past it every day and often think the same thing, or at least somewhere downtown. It is part of the casino (Seminoles deep pockets). Although it could have the hotel component only with the support of the Rock Hall.

1 hour ago, Clevecane said:

Understand the fearful pessimism, but as stated up-thread—no one has posited a 30-mile long cement/rebar system. In fact, Euclid’s project someone dismantles such systems. Additionally, Lake Erie’s southern shore is not Miami’s eastern shore, and a comparison to sand beaches is both unfair and incorrect. 
 

 

 

Unfair and incorrect? This is what Euclid Beach did and should look like. 

2 hours ago, Florida Guy said:

I drive past it every day and often think the same thing, or at least somewhere downtown. It is part of the casino (Seminoles deep pockets). Although it could have the hotel component only with the support of the Rock Hall.

My office is in Miami Gardens, its visible from Aventura, sits in the middle of nowhere and yes, it could have been a nice themed hotel, consistent with the R&RHF&M.

Edited October 18, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

3 hours ago, Florida Guy said:

I drive past it every day and often think the same thing, or at least somewhere downtown. It is part of the casino (Seminoles deep pockets). Although it could have the hotel component only with the support of the Rock Hall.

Yes, back when I lived down here, you only needed to be 18 to get in—and it was no where near as glitzy! ?

4 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

Unfair and incorrect? This is what Euclid Beach did and should look like. 

I’m saying Lake Erie bluffs need to be reinforced so the houses DON’T fall into the Lake...

 

Edit: @surfohio pointed out I’m an idiot. ?

Edited October 19, 20195 yr by Clevecane

1 minute ago, Clevecane said:

I’m saying Lake Erie bluffs need to be reinforced so the houses fall into the Lake...

Haha. Freudian slip. 

8 hours ago, Florida Guy said:

I drive past it every day and often think the same thing, or at least somewhere downtown. It is part of the casino (Seminoles deep pockets). Although it could have the hotel component only with the support of the Rock Hall.

Branding

Licensing

Marketing

 

most likely $$$$

10 hours ago, Clevecane said:

Flying into FLL, can’t help but wonder, why is this in Hollywood, Florida, not Cleveland’s lakefront? 

I thought you were joking. Do you know how much parking that place has? You can see it in the picture. People thought the chandelier was a joke? Not that any of this is on topic, although I do miss the guitar on Huron...that's close to the lakefront right?

It's unique but an eyesore. Cleveland deserves better.

On 10/18/2019 at 6:59 PM, Clevecane said:

I’m saying Lake Erie bluffs need to be reinforced so the houses DON’T fall into the Lake...

 

Edit: @surfohio pointed out I’m an idiot. ?

 

Most of the houses between Easterly and Euclid Beach are set back a ways.

 

It looks like the proposed path is going to stick to Lakeshore Boulevard, bypassing us to the south.

That blue text barely shows up on the dark forum theme.

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 2:38 PM, Clevecane said:

Flying into FLL, can’t help but wonder, why is this in Hollywood, Florida, not Cleveland’s lakefront? 

 

I do think it would be cool to have something like this(obviously with a better design. But something unique and iconic to go with the Hall) by the Rock Hall.  If they did, they could add the neck of the guitar in as a "sky needle" type observation tower.

Some cool Lake Erie usage with possible future connections to the rest of the region:

 

Bradstreet’s Landing in Rocky River to break ground in spring 2020

Today 5:30 AM

By Laura Johnston, cleveland.com

 

ROCKY RIVER, Ohio -- Rocky River plans to break ground next spring on a $3.4 million revamp of Bradstreet’s Landing, a Lake Erie park whose pier has been closed since November 2017.

 

Rocky River received $350,000 from the state and $1.1 million from Cuyahoga County in casino proceeds for the project.

 

Bobst sees the work as complementary to the county’s plan for a lakefront trail and the Cleveland Metroparks’ development of a water trail.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/10/bradstreets-landing-in-rocky-river-to-break-ground-in-spring-2020.html

Edited October 22, 20195 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

Downtown Cleveland’s first playground to have steamship theme, open in November

Link: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/10/downtown-clevelands-first-playground-to-have-steamship-theme-open-next-month.html

 

"Downtown Cleveland’s first playground is inspired by the steamship William G. Mather and could be complete by mid-November."

How Gordon Park could become Cleveland's 'Edgewater East'

 

 “That could become the Battery Park of the East Side and serve as a huge economic driver for those surrounding neighborhoods, particularly St. Clair-Superior and Glenville.”

https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/gordonpark102319.aspx

Some more Cumberland front window peeks ? 

1 hour ago, urbanetics_ said:

How Gordon Park could become Cleveland's 'Edgewater East'

 

 “That could become the Battery Park of the East Side and serve as a huge economic driver for those surrounding neighborhoods, particularly St. Clair-Superior and Glenville.”

https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/gordonpark102319.aspx

So Gardin believes this can be fast-tracked? Interesting. Also the beach creation idea is most intriguing. I'd very much like to see some feasibility studies. That's deep water over there.

 

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html?title=LAKE+ERIE+boating+app#15.66/41.5393/-81.6417

43 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Some more Cumberland front window peeks ? 

 

Interesting. The big parking lot along the north side of Erieside Avenue is gone.

 

I'm told that, at a recent meeting of downtown Cleveland stakeholder groups, when Richard Pace showed the site plan with all of the surface parking along Erieside, it apparently garnered an audible gasp from the audience. The gasp was probably in response to the parking lots because that was the first thing that people in the audience asked him about. He said the parking was provided at the request of the city which has its agreement with the Cleveland Browns that stipulates that X number of parking spaces be provided near the stadium.

 

But that site plan posted my @marty15 and other recent information suggests that the lakefront plans are VERY dynamic right now.

Edited October 23, 20195 yr by KJP