June 18, 20222 yr I hope someone in the county or city government has the backbone to demand a fair deal from Haslam. The idea of that slimeball profiting off of even more public dollars is a little hard to stomach.
June 18, 20222 yr Great article Ken. Jammed packed with information. I hate the post office site. Always have (since it was first suggested years ago for a stadium) and always will. It is too isolated, is hemmed in by freeways and freeways access roads and has unattractive views looking over the industrial valley. For those who argue it can be made more walkable and connected to downtown with lots of ancillary development, I hate that idea as well since it will just pirate resources away form the center of the city which has scores of parking lots which still need to be filled in. I like the idea of locating it on the near east side but I am afraid I agree with Ken that land and building acquisition will be too much of a challenge. All of this will be fun to watch and discuss over the coming years.
June 18, 20222 yr 7 hours ago, KJP said: In addition to the busiest section of the Rapid which sees a train every 7.5 minutes? How embarrassing is it that the trunk section that serves three different lines only has a train every 7.5 minutes? Very frustrating. And then the fact that there is ZERO ToD around two of the three stations served by that trunk is also horrible and a big reflection of the reasons why the Rapid suffers from such poor ridership. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
June 18, 20222 yr I guess I wasn’t too far off with my St. Clair Ave example! Great article, as always. Personally, I prefer that site but the layout you created of the post office site is very intriguing. If a soccer stadium went in as well, it would only add to the foot traffic there. However, it’d have to be a 100% guarantee that the stadium village gets built for me to favor that site. Regardless, the idea of opening up the lakefront for an entirely new neighborhood is very exciting. Fun times ahead!
June 18, 20222 yr Just moving back to Cleveland from Minneapolis, it is an exciting thought to see the kind of development a stadium in the downtown grid can bring to the city. My main question is if this site or one similar to it is chosen, do you all think that downtown connectivity to the lakefront will continue to stall because they'll need to keep the Shoreway as is for traffic? The main things that excite me about the USPS site, while having less impact on surrounding neighborhoods, is not only the easy rapid connection but that the Shoreway could potentially go on a road diet and bring on development to better connect downtown and the lakefront. It seems like one of the big things that's been hindering connectivity between the lakefront and downtown is the Shoreway and its current layout.
June 18, 20222 yr Browns need to develop the lakefront to generate revenue for a new or rebuilt stadium. To support that development, they need the land bridge. In order to build the land bridge, they need to get rid of the Shoreway's flyover bridge next to Browns stadium. Everything's connected. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20222 yr I'm generally fine with a new build as long as its in or close to Downtown. For the love of God don't take it to Strongsville or the like as Modell considered all those years ago. The land the existing stadium is on is ripe for development, but as long as its not at the expense of losing the stadium to the suburbs for me. Thankfully it doesn't look like the Haslams have any intention of that and they were involved in the Crew new stadium which suggests they favor Downtown/centralized venues. The NFL is about keeping up with the Joneses though (literally) they'll want more than a stadium, its land for additional development too. I think the signs point to the Post Office site for a few reasons (if the source is to be believed). 1) More availability of land 2) Quick access in and out 3) More control on parking 4) The fact that site is a tad awkward walking wise from the heart of DT means they could to some extent monopolise where people spend their money on gameday. 5) If the other site requires tonnes of smaller property acquisitions and displacement of existing tenants then I think you've higher potential for lawsuits and negotiation problems. Interesting that the Feds have now decided they are staying put. The big stickler for me about that site is its a hallmark site of yesteryear stadiums in that its cut off from its surrounding environment by expressways, surface parking lots and brownfields, but sports teams are now big in the development game so teams aren't developing like they used to - a bog standard stadium and then an ocean of asphalt. I don't expect hotel occupancy would suffer too much from the current site, but I expect bars/restaurants would suffer somewhat. If they go with the Post Office site though and want additional development however it needs more than just a football stadium with 10 games a year. It'll need multi use development, apartments, office space, soccer stadium, amphitheater for guaranteed leisure traffic in summer months etc. I think they could pull that off because the Browns are such an iconic part of NEO theres so damn many people who would want apartment with a stadium view and they could charge excessive prices for the privilege. Obviously we the public are going to foot the bill big time whether its a renovation or a newly constructed stadium, so we might as well use it as some sort of an economic driver. Edited June 18, 20222 yr by snakebite
June 18, 20222 yr @KJPDid your source r.e. the Post Office site discuss at all the prospect of a jail being across the street eventually?
June 18, 20222 yr Building a 70 acre lakefront neighborhood will cost multiple billions. Why not JUST build the stadium?
June 18, 20222 yr Wasn't there a site closer to Tower City that was being considered for a new stadium? Is that site no longer available?
June 18, 20222 yr 4 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Wasn't there a site closer to Tower City that was being considered for a new stadium? Is that site no longer available? That was probably just my dream of putting it on Scranton Peninsula and connecting it to TC via sky bridge(s) over the river. Scranton is the perfect location imo Edited June 18, 20222 yr by marty15
June 18, 20222 yr Two sites, both have their plusses and minuses. Personally I favor the E.13 - E.17 site for all the reasons articulated by others on this forum. The best reason for me is that the neighborhood is already attached to downtown. although it is vastly underutilized. But unlike the Post Office site you wouldn't have to build out new bars/restaurants. The new builds wouldn't be used all that much on non event days. How would that work for a going business? Plus they would cannibalize existing establishments some of which are already struggling. We don't need more places competing for customers. If we build all these these areas will there be enough people to fill them? We already have the Flats, E.4th Street, Warehouse District, Gateway, Ohio City etc. Now add to that a new lakefront center of activity and new bars/restaurants if the Post Office site is chosen. That's an awful lot of entertainment sites for a city the size of Cleveland. Does anyone really think all those centers of activity are viable? 'Cause I don't. I prefer fewer but more concentrated areas of life over many diverse centers struggling for customers. There are only so many days in the year to fill these places. We don't need a bunch of entertainment areas competing for business. I agree that the Post Office site while still downtown feels like it might as well be in the suburbs as it is effectively removed from downtown by highways. Don't like that at all. Those highways are the only thing I do like about that site though. It seems to me that getting in and out might be easier than building on the other site although I'm not a traffic expert. I'm sure studies will be done to determine that for both sites. The biggest drawback to the E.14 - E.17 site as Ken indicated is acquiring all the necessary land from a lot of different owners. Sure as sh*t one or more will hold out for a King's ransom. I don't see a way around that unless eminent domain is used and that might take a lot of time and still be more expensive than using the Post Office land. I guess the biggest question is can we afford it and at what cost? Still a lot to be determined but it sure will be fun to watch this play out.
June 18, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, snakebite said: @KJPDid your source r.e. the Post Office site discuss at all the prospect of a jail being across the street eventually? No. The jail site is across the street and across a wide railroad right of way. I can't imagine why anyone is going to walk past the new jail to get to a stadium built at the post office site (except for perhaps the existing women's pre-release center). Consider how many walk past the current jail to get to the current football stadium. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20222 yr Damn, there's a lot to take in with that article. Great job as always KJP. It all sounds great. But if Cleveland/County builds it, then we should have team equity. Otherwise, I'm fully on board. Edited June 18, 20222 yr by TBideon
June 19, 20222 yr 5 hours ago, KJP said: No. The jail site is across the street and across a wide railroad right of way. I can't imagine why anyone is going to walk past the new jail to get to a stadium built at the post office site (except for perhaps the existing women's pre-release center). Consider how many walk past the current jail to get to the current football stadium. And on top of that the jail site is probably 20 or 30 feet below the elevation of the stadium site. You almost won't even be able to see it.
June 20, 20222 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/06/cleveland-browns-reportedly-want-new-1-billion-stadium-likely-publicly-funded.html Gotta give it to @KJP He is respected enough that Cleveland.com runs a whole story just base on his article!
June 20, 20222 yr 12 hours ago, cle_guy90 said: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/06/cleveland-browns-reportedly-want-new-1-billion-stadium-likely-publicly-funded.html Gotta give it to @KJP He is respected enough that Cleveland.com runs a whole story just base on his article! So did a few national publications https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/19/browns-reportedly-are-exploring-sites-for-a-new-stadium/ https://theredzone.org/Blog-Description/EntryId/23517/Report--Browns-exploring-sites-for-new-downtown-stadium https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-seeking-their-first-new-stadium-since-returning-to-nfl-in-1999-per-report/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 20222 yr 11 hours ago, KJP said: So did a couple of national publications https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/19/browns-reportedly-are-exploring-sites-for-a-new-stadium/ https://theredzone.org/Blog-Description/EntryId/23517/Report--Browns-exploring-sites-for-new-downtown-stadium The Cleveland.com article attempted to corroborate your story by reaching out to the Browns for a comment and they fight didn’t deny it. Let the fun begin! Edited June 20, 20222 yr by BuckeyeNative
June 20, 20222 yr As a Central Ohio Resident, lifelong Browns fan and knowing nothing about these two areas, if i had to pick, based solely on renderings and location, i would prefer the eastside of downtown location...right by the Muni Lot. Redevelop the 70 acre FES site and other lakefront sites, build a palace of a stadium with a retractable roof and change the future of Cleveland at a time when the state of Ohio is poised for a major comeback. IMO, this would be the best case scenario. The time is now! This decision could be the catalyst for a major Cleveland comeback that we are all rooting for. Cant wait to see how this all unfolds. GO BROWNS!!! Edited June 20, 20222 yr by OhioFinest
June 20, 20222 yr 19 minutes ago, OhioFinest said: As a Central Ohio Resident, lifelong Browns fan and knowing nothing about these two areas, if i had to pick, based solely on renderings and location, i would prefer the eastside of downtown location...right by the Muni Lot. Redevelop the 70 acre FES site and other lakefront sites, build a palace of a stadium with a retractable roof and change the future of Cleveland at a time when the state of Ohio is poised for a major comeback. IMO, this would be the best case scenario. The time is now! This decision could be the catalyst for a major Cleveland comeback that we are all rooting for. Cant wait to see how this all unfolds. GO BROWNS!!! It’d definitely be a game-changer. Obviously a world-class stadium would change a lot of outside perspectives about Cleveland, but all we’ve ever known is the lakefront being centered about the Browns. For the first time in nearly 100 years, it will be a blank canvas for imagination!
June 20, 20222 yr 13 minutes ago, BuckeyeNative said: It’d definitely be a game-changer. Obviously a world-class stadium would change a lot of outside perspectives about Cleveland, but all we’ve ever known is the lakefront being centered about the Browns. For the first time in nearly 100 years, it will be a blank canvas for imagination! Totally get it...maybe its the perfect time for a fresh start for both the Browns and the city? Browns get a world class stadium and the city of Cleveland gets to reinvent itself and build a new and exciting future. Edited June 20, 20222 yr by OhioFinest
June 20, 20222 yr 10 hours ago, BuckeyeNative said: The Pro Football Talk article attempted to corroborate your story by reaching out to the Browns for a comment and they fight didn’t deny it. Let the fun begin! Wasn't that quote from 2018? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 20222 yr 14 minutes ago, KJP said: Wasn't that quote from 2018? My apologies, I meant the Cleveland.com article, not Pro Football Talk. The Senior Vice President of communication for the Browns and Haslem’s sports group confirmed on Sunday that they’re “conducting feasibility studies on what a new stadium would look like.” You would be correct in that PFT mentions a quote from 2018. I’ve edited the original post to clear up any confusion. Edited June 20, 20222 yr by BuckeyeNative
June 20, 20222 yr Two sites, both have their plusses and minuses. Personally I favor the E.13 - E.17 site for all the reasons articulated by others on this forum. The best reason for me is that the neighborhood is already attached to downtown. although it is vastly underutilized. But unlike the Post Office site you wouldn't have to build out new bars/restaurants. The new builds wouldn't be used all that much on non event days. How would that work for a going business? Plus they would cannibalize existing establishments some of which are already struggling. We don't need more places competing for customers. If we build all these these areas will there be enough people to fill them? We already have the Flats, E.4th Street, Warehouse District, Gateway, Ohio City etc. Now add to that a new lakefront center of activity and new bars/restaurants if the Post Office site is chosen. That's an awful lot of entertainment sites for a city the size of Cleveland. Does anyone really think all those centers of activity are viable? 'Cause I don't. I prefer fewer but more concentrated areas of life over many diverse centers struggling for customers. There are only so many days in the year to fill these places. We don't need a bunch of entertainment areas competing for business. I agree that the Post Office site while still downtown feels like it might as well be in the suburbs as it is effectively removed from downtown by highways. Don't like that at all. Those highways are the only thing I do like about that site though. It seems to me that getting in and out might be easier than building on the other site although I'm not a traffic expert. I'm sure studies will be done to determine that for both sites. The biggest drawback to the E.14 - E.17 site as Ken indicated is acquiring all the necessary land from a lot of different owners. Sure as sh*t one or more will hold out for a King's ransom. I don't see a way around that unless eminent domain is used and that might take a lot of time and still be more expensive than using the Post Office land. I guess the biggest question is can we afford it and at what cost? Still a lot to be determined but it sure will be fun to watch this play out. Honestly any time I go out in any of the entertainment areas they’re generally packed, long waits and especially in FEB where the lines are super long, not to mention the traffic into FEB and those are non-game days. Throw a guardians game, cavs game, browns game it’s hard to even get a single beer anywhere. I think we’re more than okay to add more, got to remember our downtown may not have a huge population but we also serve to entertain the 1.2m in the county and it shows.
June 20, 20222 yr ^ Interesting take. Maybe its been the poor weather this spring or maybe its just when I've been out but I've noticed E. 4th is less popular now. Same for the Warehouse District. FEB is packed when the weather is good but not all that busy when it's bad. Ohio City seems to be doing well all the time. Gateway only on game day which might be expected. I hope your experience is more reflective than mine because I don't think we're anywhere close to pre-Covid times. Foot traffic still appears to be down from then. So adding a bunch more places on the other side of the highway IF that ends up being the new Browns site can't help existing establishments. Maybe if the new Lakefront ends up being the game-changer we all hope that will bring a lot more out of area traffic and then it could be helpful for the entire downtown as a rising tide lifts all boats. Still a lot to be determined.
June 20, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, cadmen said: Maybe if the new Lakefront ends up being the game-changer we all hope that will bring a lot more out of area traffic and then it could be helpful for the entire downtown as a rising tide lifts all boats. Still a lot to be determined. Since they tore down those warehouses near the stadium my hope for a more organic transition for the Lakefront isn't likely to happen. However I do hope in the near future that they can come up with that perfect mix of residential, unique entertainment and park space that is more easily accessible and THE place where people and families want to come to from out of town and hole up for the weekend.
June 20, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, cadmen said: I don't think we're anywhere close to pre-Covid times. This report has a lot of details on this very thought: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f5a7d95d8b5531fbd80bdf5/t/6298c49efcce2025f69a8e0e/1654178985538/May+Recovery+Report+final.pdf We aren't back to pre-pandemic levels of foot traffic but we are closer than you think. And with how packed many places continue to be I can only imagine how much worse it'll be once we are back to pre-pandemic levels. It makes me hopeful we continue to see more and more new businesses and retail open up!
June 20, 20222 yr I like the idea of the stadium south of 90 to keep the stadiums together. I do not like having it all the way down where the post office is. Two questions; is the old Norfolk Southern site too small for a football stadium? And if the plan is to build a stadium that is used for more events why would you build a separate soccer stadium? Why not build the new stadium in such a way that you could easily close the upper bowl to accommodate fewer fans and reduce staffing needs?
June 20, 20222 yr I'm a big development fan but I must say, $1bn for a football stadium doesn't sit well with me. I think the city/ county can spend that money in better ways.
June 20, 20222 yr Thanks for the report dwolfi01. I see that we are still below our previous foot traffic as I thought. A few things stand out to me. I used to volunteer at the film festival (stopped when they wouldn't let us actually watch during our shifts lol) and saw attendance rise to over 100,000 each year. The most recent festival recorded an attendance o 77,000 but only a third were in the theatres, the rest online. That may be good for the bottom line but not so good for downtown foot traffic. I liked how our hospitality sector is coming back at an even better rate than other cities. The biggest loss for me is only 52% have come back to the office. WFH may end up being the biggest Covid game changer of all. I REALLY miss the days of office workers filling the streets, restaurants and of course OFFICE BUILDINGS.
June 20, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, Luke_S said: I like the idea of the stadium south of 90 to keep the stadiums together. I do not like having it all the way down where the post office is. Two questions; is the old Norfolk Southern site too small for a football stadium? And if the plan is to build a stadium that is used for more events why would you build a separate soccer stadium? Why not build the new stadium in such a way that you could easily close the upper bowl to accommodate fewer fans and reduce staffing needs? Yes, a football stadium would fit on the NS intermodal yard site if it was built over the Rapid tracks. Probably could share the stadium with soccer but it would feel pretty empty even if you closed off the upper deck. 2 hours ago, freefourur said: I'm a big development fan but I must say, $1bn for a football stadium doesn't sit well with me. I think the city/ county can spend that money in better ways. $1 billion is a conservative baseline. I'm willing to bet it would be more. Perhaps double. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 20222 yr I don’t see how building an entertainment village with a stadium south of the inner belt would ever be sustainable. Those venues would only be open a dozen or so days a year for a few hours. Edited June 21, 20222 yr by marty15
June 21, 20222 yr 10 minutes ago, KJP said: Yes, a football stadium would fit on the NS intermodal yard site if it was built over the Rapid tracks. Probably could share the stadium with soccer but it would feel pretty empty even if you closed off the upper deck. $1 billion is a conservative baseline. I'm willing to bet it would be more. Perhaps double. Do you have any information or theories as to why the NS intermodal yard site is disfavored by the Haslams?
June 21, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, freefourur said: I'm a big development fan but I must say, $1bn for a football stadium doesn't sit well with me. I think the city/ county can spend that money in better ways. Especially when the development is spearheaded by somebody who’s been the leader of such crooked and incompetent organizations.
June 21, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Yes, a football stadium would fit on the NS intermodal yard site if it was built over the Rapid tracks. Probably could share the stadium with soccer but it would feel pretty empty even if you closed off the upper deck. $1 billion is a conservative baseline. I'm willing to bet it would be more. Perhaps double. Does that cost include construction of a new post office facility?
June 21, 20222 yr These days a billion is nothing. The new Bills stadium is starting at $1.3 billion, and that's without a dome. Moderators, if I may, let the cunts move. Unless team equity is part of the package.
June 21, 20222 yr The thought of building a stadium at the intermodel site or now the post office location makes my stomach hurt. Both horrible choices. I can just see it now as the Goodyear blimp approaches the stadium ready to broadcast the aerial views of the city that we all look forward to instead it is capturing parts of the industrial valley, then floating over the chemical storage tanks along a very industrial part of the river, as it hovers over the massive county jail and its barbed wire perimeter, and then loses itself over the maze of highways and on and off ramps. We have to get this right, you only get one chance for a first impression. The narrative that we try to change about Cleveland and its industrial reputation will never change. A bad first impression will equal millions of social media impressions that will be hard to defend. I hope they either explore a full renovation of the current stadium or the bluffs location could be interesting. For this to work it needs to be near the convention center and the hotels and entertainment districts.
June 21, 20222 yr 17 minutes ago, freethink said: The thought of building a stadium at the intermodel site or now the post office location makes my stomach hurt. Both horrible choices. I can just see it now as the Goodyear blimp approaches the stadium ready to broadcast the aerial views of the city that we all look forward to instead it is capturing parts of the industrial valley, then floating over the chemical storage tanks along a very industrial part of the river, as it hovers over the massive county jail and its barbed wire perimeter, and then loses itself over the maze of highways and on and off ramps. We have to get this right, you only get one chance for a first impression. The narrative that we try to change about Cleveland and its industrial reputation will never change. A bad first impression will equal millions of social media impressions that will be hard to defend. I hope they either explore a full renovation of the current stadium or the bluffs location could be interesting. For this to work it needs to be near the convention center and the hotels and entertainment districts. You just nailed it.
June 21, 20222 yr 38 minutes ago, freethink said: The thought of building a stadium at the intermodel site or now the post office location makes my stomach hurt. Both horrible choices. I can just see it now as the Goodyear blimp approaches the stadium ready to broadcast the aerial views of the city that we all look forward to instead it is capturing parts of the industrial valley, then floating over the chemical storage tanks along a very industrial part of the river, as it hovers over the massive county jail and its barbed wire perimeter, and then loses itself over the maze of highways and on and off ramps. We have to get this right, you only get one chance for a first impression. The narrative that we try to change about Cleveland and its industrial reputation will never change. A bad first impression will equal millions of social media impressions that will be hard to defend. I hope they either explore a full renovation of the current stadium or the bluffs location could be interesting. For this to work it needs to be near the convention center and the hotels and entertainment districts. If what they’re saying regarding the structural integrity of the stadium is accurate, it may not be worth it to renovate FirstEnergy Stadium. My hope is that they’d either build a new stadium where the current one stands or they pursue the downtown location near St. Clair Ave. I like the latter because it’d be taking a gamble on the lakefront’s long-term value to the city while developing an entirely new section of downtown around the stadium. However, I think it becomes a cost analysis of determining if building a new stadium on the current site but only have 50 acres to develop would generate more/less profit than developing all 70 acres of the lakefront but having to dish out millions to buy up properties.
June 21, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, Ethan said: Do you have any information or theories as to why the NS intermodal yard site is disfavored by the Haslams? I don't know if it is disfavored. A Browns source today confirmed to me that the Post Office site was in fact investigated by the team but not recently. The source denied the site at the east edge of downtown was being considered. Perhaps the source is telling the truth, a partial truth or they're lying. We'll find out eventually. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 20222 yr What if the new location of the stadium becomes the actual land bridge? The exterior design could be the original Burnham train station envisioned at the end of The Malls and make a domed stadium that becomes the finished connection to The Convention Center and an intermodal station below the field. This opens up the existing stadium location for a better use freeing up the lakefront acreage. The sides of the stadium can have stunning promenades over the railway tracks. The best is it activates the dead zoned the land bridge can be incorporated into the new stadium build.
June 21, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, dave2017 said: What if the new location of the stadium becomes the actual land bridge? The exterior design could be the original Burnham train station envisioned at the end of The Malls and make a domed stadium that becomes the finished connection to The Convention Center and an intermodal station below the field. This opens up the existing stadium location for a better use freeing up the lakefront acreage. The sides of the stadium can have stunning promenades over the railway tracks. The best is it activates the dead zoned the land bridge can be incorporated into the new stadium build. Now THAT is a game-changer. Brilliant idea. I’ve been to Target Field in downtown Minneapolis and they have a very similar design with a transit station underneath the stadium. I also love how you split the land up to create a new channel. Great creativity! Edited June 21, 20222 yr by BuckeyeNative
June 21, 20222 yr I agree with what @CleveFansaid earlier and am more in favor of the second option. A lot of businesses rely on the crowds the football games bring in before and after games. With a roof on the new stadium, even more guests will be down there throughout the year. But the first option is too set off from any bars/restaurants. Just my opinion but I think the West side of downtown gets far more activity with the Flats, E. 4th, the casino, etc. So putting this stadium on the East side can spur a lot of growth on that side of town. Make it a more even playing field, so to speak.
June 21, 20222 yr This is a tough call... I don't think football stadiums are a good use of land, even when they have a roof and can host 20 events/year instead of 10. I'm also skeptical of any benefits of spurring surrounding development. So part of me thinks the best way to go is to simply find the least intrusive area within the city to put the stadium. The Post Office site seems to accomplish that. I'm not afraid of social media posts of blimp views... there are more important priorities than hoping to drive positive sentiment among internet trolls. The east downtown site would be fine too, but seems more complicated, and I'm a little concerned about a football stadium simply promoting/entrenching surface parking lots in this part of town. At the end of the day I assume the Haslams will go for whichever site will make them the most money, and once again Cleveland/Cuyahoga County will be left paying the bill for the whole region to watch the Browns.
June 21, 20222 yr 5 hours ago, dave2017 said: What if the new location of the stadium becomes the actual land bridge? The exterior design could be the original Burnham train station envisioned at the end of The Malls and make a domed stadium that becomes the finished connection to The Convention Center and an intermodal station below the field. This opens up the existing stadium location for a better use freeing up the lakefront acreage. The sides of the stadium can have stunning promenades over the railway tracks. The best is it activates the dead zoned the land bridge can be incorporated into the new stadium build. Cool idea. I just wonder how Norfolk Southern and the National Transportation Safety Board would feel about running mile-long trains, some with hazardous materials, under the butts of 70,000 people. Now if we opened up the Lakefront Bypass and rerouted the hazardous shipments out of downtown to the NS line just south of downtown, that's might be doable but would add tens of millions if not hundreds of millions to the cost. It taps different pots of money, however. 5 minutes ago, ML11 said: This is a tough call... I don't think football stadiums are a good use of land, even when they have a roof and can host 20 events/year instead of 10. I'm also skeptical of any benefits of spurring surrounding development. So part of me thinks the best way to go is to simply find the least intrusive area within the city to put the stadium. The Post Office site seems to accomplish that. I'm not afraid of social media posts of blimp views... there are more important priorities than hoping to drive positive sentiment among internet trolls. The east downtown site would be fine too, but seems more complicated, and I'm a little concerned about a football stadium simply promoting/entrenching surface parking lots in this part of town. At the end of the day I assume the Haslams will go for whichever site will make them the most money, and once again Cleveland/Cuyahoga County will be left paying the bill for the whole region to watch the Browns. Add a fee to all ticket purchases made outside of Cuyahoga County based on the address of the credit card holder. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 20222 yr Props for the creativity, but why re-arrange our malls around an albatross of a new stadium used a handful of times a year. Football stadiums are a money pit, and a terrible land use. 5 hours ago, dave2017 said: What if the new location of the stadium becomes the actual land bridge?
June 21, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, KJP said: Add a fee to all ticket purchases made outside of Cuyahoga County based on the address of the credit card holder. The city and county should get a cut of the TV money. The problem with gate fees is a fraction of the region actually goes to games. But we all know that won't happen. We can't even negotiate keeping naming rights.
June 21, 20222 yr How about this idea which was actually proposed many years ago. Cut out a channel to straighten the Cuyahoga River, fill in the unused section of the river behind Tower City, then build the stadium on the filled-in section. Is it possible?
June 21, 20222 yr The city and county should get a cut of the TV money. The problem with gate fees is a fraction of the region actually goes to games. But we all know that won't happen. We can't even negotiate keeping naming rights.Agreed, these are just business deals and cities don’t have the personnel to be able to negotiate such deals. Owning a NFL team as they say is a money printing machine it doesn’t make sense for cities not to benefit more. However, there likely could be an argument for the amount of economic impact that is made on a yearly basis, get ahold of those figures maybe these numbers don’t seem as crazy. Just as an example over just 3 day NBA all star event the net economic impact was $248.9 million….
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