3 hours ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Speaking of pie in the sky and putting lipstick on a pig, I always loved that crazy idea of plopping a giant, glass geodesic dome on top of FIrst Energy Stadium.

 

I thought the sliding glass roof concept looked really cool. 

 

Haha found it....not sure I trust the writer though ;-) 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1340833-cleveland-browns-is-the-owner-in-waiting-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-city-officials

Edited July 22, 20222 yr by surfohio

Wow, that's one of my few Bleacher Report articles I wrote. A blast from the blast!

There is a survey out from noaca and downtown cle alliance in regards to Amtrak expansion and asks about a transportation center. Would advise everyone to go complete it and bump up the numbers.

 

 

Check out the Ohio intercity rail thread in the transportation section. 

I mean to say this every time we have a big event in cleveland and/or race of some kind but this whole we need to study the Shoreway to see if it make sense remove it as a highway….

At the times where the Shoreway would be the most useful they close off all the exits to downtown and Ohio city causing grid lock, not to mention it’s a part of just about every marathon and cycle marathon (whatever are called) so we literally go without several times a year.

What message does this send to the public? We can do without it, it’s exits cause traffic flow issues and/or security risks, so we actively discourage using it when you actually need to get downtown.

Can we just kill the highway and if we keep the structure maybe keep 2 lanes for cars then throw a street car/extra RTA line and ped/bike friendly route.

I received an email from the Cleveland Browns asking me, as a season ticket holder, to complete a 15 minute survey regarding possible renovations to the stadium.

Has anybody completed the survey yet?

Edited August 30, 20222 yr by dski44

Scranton Peninsula. Or maybe, not so peninsula in time.

Edited August 30, 20222 yr by marty15

On 8/30/2022 at 6:23 PM, dski44 said:

I received an email from the Cleveland Browns asking me, as a season ticket holder, to complete a 15 minute survey regarding possible renovations to the stadium.

Has anybody completed the survey yet?

 

Is any thought being given to a minimal (i.e. cheaper) dome, say a canvas/kevlar/whatever tent arrangement that could raise winter stadium temperatures to "football weather" levels?  Or is that a compromise unsatisfactory to all?

34 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

Is any thought being given to a minimal (i.e. cheaper) dome, say a canvas/kevlar/whatever tent arrangement that could raise winter stadium temperatures to "football weather" levels?  Or is that a compromise unsatisfactory to all?

 

I think that would just give everybody else outside of Cleveland another reason to make fun of us.

38 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

Is any thought being given to a minimal (i.e. cheaper) dome, say a canvas/kevlar/whatever tent arrangement that could raise winter stadium temperatures to "football weather" levels?  Or is that a compromise unsatisfactory to all?

 

It would be a cost that wouldn't allow us to achieve the ultimate end goal of enclosing the stadium (Final 4s,Super Bowls, etc)

"CLEVELAND, Ohio — In a drive to take full ownership of an effort to reshape highways, transit and public spaces on the downtown lakefront, the City of Cleveland announced Wednesday it is embarking on a new master plan for the area.

 

The new planning process, on which the administration of Mayor Justin Bibb is prepared to spend up to $500,000, will last a year and is intended to add a broader design vision and public perspective to the new civic effort to better connect downtown to Lake Erie"

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/09/city-of-cleveland-seeking-consultants-for-new-downtown-lakefront-master-plan-with-broader-scope-than-haslam-proposal.html

“Bibb and Huang also said that the new lakefront planning effort will proceed under the assumption that the city-owned football stadium, where the Browns lease expires in 2028, will remain on the lakefront, despite speculation that the team wants a new facility elsewhere near downtown.”
If it takes a bazillion studies to get things down why not study under both possibilities of the stadium being there and the greater possibility of it not…

They don't include Burke in the study area. They should save their $500,000. 

I am in the wrong profession.  I should have been in a consulting firm.

If there is one thing the City of Cleveland and various administrations have been good at when it comes to the lakefront the past 30 plus years is spending money to  "study" the lakefront.  Not too good at actually implementing all these master plans.  It is really starting to get embarrassing.

Can't they just dust off any number of the prior failed studies?

And what kind of one year study only costs $500,000.  Sounds like a job new Planning Commission hires right out of school could accompolish.  Is this just something that needs to be done regulation wise so the city can start begging for money from the federal government?

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Htsguy

if they get rid of 2, I'm starting to question the wisdom of "landbridge" 

 

without the 2 exits and flyover, they could build new overpasses on w3 and e9 tobmake them really walkable without needing to build a massive concrete structure from the malls. 

 

even if they built the multi modal station, the could build it like a T that connects to w3,e9,mall c

 

I want the study to look at places of origin for people walking down to the lakefront. w3 and e9 may be the preferred routes anyway.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Whipjacka

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I am in the wrong profession.  I should have been in a consulting firm.

 

They have powerful lobbyists in DC and state capitals. All of the hoops you have to jump through is why infrastructure costs so much more money and takes so much more time in the USA vs other countries. 

1 hour ago, freefourur said:

They don't include Burke in the study area. They should save their $500,000. 

It would be nice to see a lakefront plan with the Burke property repurposed for recreational/entertainment attractions.  Perhaps it might sway those who want Burke to remain an airport.  

This smells like a faux RFP to me. I don't mean that in a bad way. But I'm guessing one of the lakefront-focused nonprofits came to Bibb behind closed doors and said "we've got this great lakefront plan, could you give us some money to flesh it out a bit." Then they probably talked through the plan, the administration liked it, and thus a 30-day RFP period with a minimal budget.

 

The specifics outlined above are speculation, but it's fair to say RFPs are often just CYA when the municipality is pretty sure about what it actually wants to do.

 

So I'm guessing there is a plan that exists right now (at least in rough form) and that the city is excited about.

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

They don't include Burke in the study area. They should save their $500,000. 

There is already an ongoing study on closing Burke.

Sounds like the city is unhappy that the current Haslam and DOT study focuses entirely on traffic and not on the city. The article paraphrases as much from Bibb. Having a city-focused lakefront plan would be useful if they hope to push back on outside influence and traffic concerns.

 

Quote

The Haslam concept sparked a $5 million transportation feasibility analysis, funded 50-50 by the city and the Ohio Department of Transportation, that started earlier this year. The feasibility study is aimed at clarifying the impact on local and regional traffic if the Shoreway were altered in order to enable the Mall extension.

 

But Bibb doesn’t want traffic considerations to be the only driver of the lakefront project. And he recognizes that the public hasn’t yet had a chance to have a say in the discussion. No public meetings have yet been held on the project.

 

17 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

There is already an ongoing study on closing Burke.

Right,  so they should include plans for tge airport in the overall lakefront plan.

7 hours ago, Ethan said:

"CLEVELAND, Ohio — In a drive to take full ownership of an effort to reshape highways, transit and public spaces on the downtown lakefront, the City of Cleveland announced Wednesday it is embarking on a new master plan for the area.

 

The new planning process, on which the administration of Mayor Justin Bibb is prepared to spend up to $500,000, will last a year and is intended to add a broader design vision and public perspective to the new civic effort to better connect downtown to Lake Erie"

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/09/city-of-cleveland-seeking-consultants-for-new-downtown-lakefront-master-plan-with-broader-scope-than-haslam-proposal.html

Oh my God.  How many studies and master plans will there be before anything is ever done?  Was hoping I could see something in my lifetime…….

There really needs to be an audit of all the previous garbage studies. Something smells very fishy, and it's not the lake.

They don't include Burke in the study area. They should save their $500,000. 

“In April the Bibb administration announced that it had asked a consulting firm already working on a federally required Airport Layout plan for the city to include the possibility of close Burke.” Also the caption of the photo tells you that the lines our blurry purposely to include the possibility of adjacent areas.


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It would be nice to see some sort of "waterfront loop" line included in the study.  I know this is a transportation topic, but if it were included, how do you see a loop completed?  Meaning, would it be street level? An elevated line? Or possibly underground?  

Ok. Here's my idea. Gather up all the old studies, lay them out side by side and that should be enough to cover the shoreway, railroad tracks and maybe even Burke although I'm not sure about that one. I think it could work. We already have all these old studies. They should be enough. Just gather them up, lay them out and we should be good. 

 

You know, as sort of an "everyman" kind of guy outside the box thinking like this is exactly what we need to take our place in the pantheon of great cities. 

 

You're welcome Cleveland.

4 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

“In April the Bibb administration announced that it had asked a consulting firm already working on a federally required Airport Layout plan for the city to include the possibility of close Burke.”

 

This is an important effort to find out exactly how much the city would owe the FAA to close Burke.  Then that can be worked into the plan, even if it means waiting 20 years to close Burke or raising $1B, the city will know what the realistic options are.

A walk down memory lane

 

^ well at least litt called them out on all the previous lakefront studies lol.

Timeline around the proposal process mentioned in the Steven lift article above

Joyce mentioned the haslem plan is just 1 of 20 plans being included in the total master plan

Can't wait for this to built.

 

What's that? We need a new plan to replace all of those great old plans? Oh...ok. Well then wake me up when you hear something or better yet AFTER the thing is ready for my inspection. 

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/news-press/2022/october-2022/cheers-project-advances-to-design-phase

I'll drink to that. 

3 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/news-press/2022/october-2022/cheers-project-advances-to-design-phase

 

crosspost from Emerald Necklace thread:

I was praying they would choose an engineer with actual coastal experience. Seems like a huge firm. Here's a couple of articles that are a good sign they know what's up: 

 

 

https://www.arup.com/perspectives/publications/research/section/coastal-cities-and-the-blue-economy

 

The term ‘blue economy’ seeks to promote economic growth, responsible production and consumption, social inclusion, and the preservation or improvement of livelihoods from ocean resources, while at the same time ensuring environmental sustainability of oceans, coastal areas, and other waterfront spaces....

 

https://www.arup.com/news-and-events/arup-supports-natural-resources-wales-with-launch-of-new-guidance-to-improve-coastal-biodiversity

 

The newly published guidance promotes ecological enhancements, which reintroduce some complexity to coastal structures to improve biodiversity. These enhancements can include creating microhabitats such as rock pools and textured surfaces on structures to help them to function more like natural reefs. Arup’s multidisciplinary team of maritime engineers, ecologists and consultants...

A little piece of my own

 

 

Lakefront park expansion advances

By Ken Prendergast / October 13, 2022

 

While there’s been lots of studies about how to improve Cleveland’s lakefront, one is actually moving forward into formal design and construction permitting — the last step before acquiring funding and construction for an expanded lakefront park just east of downtown. And although the detailed design and permitting will continue through to the end of 2023, a big piece of funding for lakefront park expansion will be decided by voters next month.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/10/13/lakefront-park-expansion-advances/

Man, I'd forgotten about that plan. When it was first proposed l thought it was fantastic. In fact the only thing wrong (besides the very long timeline) is there isn't a complimentary design downtown. Can you imagine something like that off E. 9th or maybe near the mouth of the river? 

 

Anyone who has visited the islands off of Toronto will appreciate doing something like that here. We don't have a lot of topographical geography but we can create some if we were so inclined. Count me a fan.

25 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Man, I'd forgotten about that plan. When it was first proposed l thought it was fantastic. In fact the only thing wrong (besides the very long timeline) is there isn't a complimentary design downtown. Can you imagine something like that off E. 9th or maybe near the mouth of the river? 

 

Anyone who has visited the islands off of Toronto will appreciate doing something like that here. We don't have a lot of topographical geography but we can create some if we were so inclined. Count me a fan.

This just gave me an idea.   What if we moved/buried the Shoreway, and made Burke into an island.   Win/win!   We keep our downtown airport and open up waterfront for a new harbor.   Maybe we could even attract a Porter Air flight to Billy Bishop in Toronto!  😜

I know they need to find a place for the dredging from the Gorge Dam in Akron, could they not kill 2 birds with 1 stone by using that dredging as the fill for this project? 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

This just gave me an idea.  

@Cleburger "Cleveland  - Venice of the North coast. Malaria and duty-free" 

I’m super happy to see the Cheers plan moving forward - and I really hope voters approve the lakefront park plan.  I sat in via zoom call on one of the Cheers meetings which surveyed stakeholders on various versions of the plan and one really got the idea this committee was designing one of the smartest and most ambitious lakefront  plans in the city’s history.

 

 Connectivity for communities on the eastern side of downtown was/is a main theme - along  with the “softening”  of the shoreline and an emphasis on incorporating natural resources and habitats to beautify the lakefront experience.  
 

Embracing and utilizing our greatest natural asset - Lake  Erie -  could dynamically  improve the quality of life for future generations that live in the Cleveland area - hopefully the downtown lakefront will eventually be transformed as well.  If we can do that, I really believe Cleveland’s long term future can be extremely dynamic.  Most of our greatest cities are on waterfronts - and the cities that most successfully connect residents to their waterfronts have the best chances to prosper even if they are northern cities. 
 

It’s my great hope that Cleveland will begin to turn years and years of conversation and planning into reality and that perhaps, a new golden age for this great city is somewhere in the future. The Cheers plan could be a very large step in that direction. 

Edited October 14, 20222 yr by CleveFan

I updated and corrected my article with a couple of tidbits from Mr. Friedman.

8 hours ago, KJP said:

I updated and corrected my article with a couple of tidbits from Mr. Friedman.

@KJP  I was thrilled to read this comment, Ken, in your updated article.   I remember one instance ~ 40 years ago hiking nearby the then dredged fill around Gordon park and literally being choked by the large amount of solvents emanating from the fresh dredge.  It was an eye opening experience to learn first hand just how polluted the river and harbor dredge was.   Great reporting! 

Bibb announces lakefront design listening sessions, town hall meeting

 

Quote

As Cleveland looks to transform access to the city's lakefront, residents are being asked what to take part in a November town hall with Mayor Justin Bibb, followed by a series of five listening sessions to be held throughout the city.

 

The town hall is scheduled for Thursday, Nov. 3, from 5:30 to 7 p.m. in the rotunda at City Hall. That event will kick off a series of listening sessions held throughout November in various city sites. Go here for the list of dates and locations.

 

The town hall is billed as the first chance for Clevelanders to take part in a "century-in-the-making effort to transform access to our city's most stunning natural treasure — Lake Erie." During the event, Bibb will share "his people-centric vision … to bridge the divide and draw residents from across the city to our North Coast," according to a statement.

 

Link to public meetings info

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/cleveland-will-host-lakefront-design-listening-sessions-town-hall-meeting

Edited October 26, 20222 yr by Luke_S
Link to story added

Is "listening session" some annoying new name for a public meeting?

"We encourage residents to carpool, bike, walk or take GCRTA to the meetings."

 

What an odd request. 

1 hour ago, X said:

Is "listening session" some annoying new name for a public meeting?

 

Yep, sort of like "action item" means task.

On 10/13/2022 at 5:11 PM, surfohio said:

 

crosspost from Emerald Necklace thread:

I was praying they would choose an engineer with actual coastal experience. Seems like a huge firm. Here's a couple of articles that are a good sign they know what's up: 

 

 

https://www.arup.com/perspectives/publications/research/section/coastal-cities-and-the-blue-economy

 

The term ‘blue economy’ seeks to promote economic growth, responsible production and consumption, social inclusion, and the preservation or improvement of livelihoods from ocean resources, while at the same time ensuring environmental sustainability of oceans, coastal areas, and other waterfront spaces....

 

https://www.arup.com/news-and-events/arup-supports-natural-resources-wales-with-launch-of-new-guidance-to-improve-coastal-biodiversity

 

The newly published guidance promotes ecological enhancements, which reintroduce some complexity to coastal structures to improve biodiversity. These enhancements can include creating microhabitats such as rock pools and textured surfaces on structures to help them to function more like natural reefs. Arup’s multidisciplinary team of maritime engineers, ecologists and consultants...

 

My Polish grandpa used to talk about people who swallowed a dictionary.  I once made a crack about more like a thesaurus, he liked that one.