From the 5/31/05 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

A lingo of our own, we reckon

Post staff report

 

Might could. Liketa. Plumb. Fixin. Reckon.

 

Gwendolyn Buchanan has been listening to us talk, and she's heard some interesting things.

 

Buchanan, an English major who just graduated from Northern Kentucky University, studied the accents, dialects and word choices of local folks as part of an independent study in linguistics.

 

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050531/NEWS01/505310358

 

so what the article is saying is that regional dialects are formed by people bringing their different ways of speaking to one place? sorta like how linguists have been explaining that for years?  :lol:  well at least they used examples

 

 

 

wait, this article is educational! ahhhh

If there's an article about this now, and it's even one based only on some undergraduate project, does it mean that this is something that hasn't already been studied?  Or was it just a slow news day?

 

These kinds of things are always interesting when accompanied by maps.  That way we get to see not only what the distinctive features of the dialect or accent are, but also their geographic extent and how they compare with other areas.

i don't know a single person who talks like that.

 

i'm all for diversity, even in linguistics, but that just sounds ugly.

I'm sure there have been many studies on this.  Maybe it was a slow news day.  The Post only had about 5 stories on their page.

 

I just thought it was an interesting topic.

These sound more like rural dialects to me. "Plumb" is not unique to the Cincinnati area.

I think that's the point...how (rural) Appalachian has had a major impact on local speech.

Buchanan, an English major who just graduated from Northern Kentucky University

 

Nuff said...  NKU is in Kentucky not Ohio and the river is a barrier for many phrases and words.  When I cross the river I am amazed at how different the accent is in Kentucky.  Maybe because I live in the Northern Metro, but I don't hear a Southern Draw from the day to day people I encounter until I cross the river. I have yet to hear any of those phrases used in Northern Cincinnati except the word, please.  I heard some old lady say, "Please?" once at Dillard's in Tri-County Mall when I asked a question but other than that I have never heard anyone else use that term that I assume was something old timers used to say in the area.

 

Might could. Liketa. Plumb. Fixin. Reckon

 

Thank goodness I don't encounter people that talk like that else I might not have made it two years in the area.  The only word that annoys me that many locals use is, "pop" when describing "soda".

Nuff said... NKU is in Kentucky not Ohio and the river is a barrier for many phrases and words.

No, it really isn't.

 

Maybe because I live in the Northern Metro, but I don't hear a Southern Draw from the day to day people I encounter until I cross the river.

That's precisely why. 

 

But you still don't have to cross the river to hear it.

I bet if you placed people based on where they are from or where they grew up, as opposed to where they are now, you might then find the river to appear as more of a barrier.  (Or maybe not; that's just a hypothesis.)

That makes Cincinnati sound really hic.  I reckon i'll eat coon for supper with ma and pa tonight! sounds like a mighty good fixin to me.  I have never heard someone talk like that except for on tv...

Nuff said... NKU is in Kentucky not Ohio and the river is a barrier for many phrases and words.

No, it really isn't.

 

 

 

I find that it is...  There is a distinct difference between the accents on the Kentucky side then the accents on the Ohio side.  While the accents on the NKY are more mild than the typical Kentucky accent it is still there.  I noticed it even more when I went down to the Florence Mall (Yall) last year. 

Okay, monte, you are right.  I have only lived here 24 years of my life.  ;)

I find the "accent" worse in most of NKY as well as in places like Norwood, Price Hill area, St. Bernard, and even northern burbs like Reading and Sharonville.  It is found in places that are more appalachian and NKY does have a high percentage of appalachians.  Now some of the words cited in the article i have never heard but there is an accent that exisits in some parts of the city.

See, this is why we need maps. :-)

Okay, monte, you are right. I have only lived here 24 years of my life. ;)

 

Yep so as an outsider I am more keen on picking up accents.

I agree with Monte and Edale here...the severity of the appalachian accent varies according to which side of the river you're on, and which neighborhood in Cincinnati you're in.  However, having lived in Boston all year and just returned home, I have noticed some striking differences in accent between northeasterners and cincinnatians IN GENERAL.

I think that's the point...how (rural) Appalachian has had a major impact on local speech.

 

I think its even more noticeable in Dayton than Cincinnati.  There has been a definate southern influence here.

 

Per request here is a map:

 

 

And these comments about northern Kentuckians sounding more "southern" are laughable. 

 

That certainly has not been my experience with northern Kentuckians while at college...and I roomed with one  (from Boone County) for a year, had classmates from Covington and Taylor Mill, and was in student government with this guy from Newport.  The guys from Newport and Covington and the girl from Taylor Mill had no southern accent, and the guy from Boone County had a slight Southern accent, but no wheres near as strong as one finds in Lexington & vicinity, or even in the Louisville area.

 

If y'all are hearing strong southern accents in Northern Kentucky the people are either migrants in from deeper in Kentucky or elsewhere in the South, or from family that came from out in the state. 

 

 

y'all

 

Was that suppose to be a joke? I see going to school in Kentucky has had an influence on you. ;)

That's an interesting map, Jeff.  I've seen it before, but other than following the lines, I don't understand what any of the symbols mean.  It's interesting to note that while the Ohio River may not be much of a divide locally, it is definitely something of a dividing line regionally.  I think a local map of Cincinnati-area speech (which may be something that has never been done) would be quite interesting, especially if you could compare today's patterns with those of perhaps a generation ago.

 

Oh, and I concur on the Appalachian accent being quite common in Dayton.  Invariably, it seems, if the local news has a story about something that happened in East Dayton and they're interviewing a neighbor or a bystander, that person will sound like they just got off the bus from Kentucky or West Virginia or something.

Well the accents change significantly based on religion -- the difference between Catholics and non-catholics on the west side is very often the Appalachian/Southern accent of protestants versus the more east coast sounding Catholic accent.  This is really perpetuated even today by the fact Catholics are in different schools, athletic leagues, etc. for their entire upbringings whereas kids in public schools are much more mixed demographically.  This is the case for my relatives who live in Tennessee, who have virtually no southern influence in their speech because they attended Catholic schools with the kids of a bunch of northern transplants.  Also, to a much larger extent, public school whites unconsciously and consciously adopt black accents.  I remember in the 80's this corresponded directly with the rise in popularity of rap.  Going to Catholics schools, where there weren't many black kids, if you started adopting a black accent you were called out on it, whereas beach heads were made in the 80's at Colerain High School, etc., and now huge chunks of white kids in that area speak that way.  In office jobs you aren't going to be able to pull it off, but I've worked in warehouse and blue collar situations where tons of white people's accents are 50% black accents.  This goes for men and women and the current max age in which you hear is is around 30, which like I said has to do with people growing up in the 80's when the phenomenon began.     

 

 

Was that suppose to be a joke? I see going to school in Kentucky has had an influence on you.....

 

Sure was..LOL..you got it...  In reality I am more likely to say "youse guys" rather than "y'all"...

 

...invariably, it seems, if the local news has a story about something that happened in East Dayton and they're interviewing a neighbor or a bystander, that person will sound like they just got off the bus from Kentucky or West Virginia or something.

 

...you should hear my barber and his "liars bench" cronies over in Fairborn! 

 

..and yeah, that map..the linguistic stuff is greek to me (is that a pun?), but the divisions on that map make sense as I can 'hear' them...

 

Whether it is possible to do a map of dialect or accent by neighborhood?.....I dont think the US is quite that specialized to have neighborhood dialects like Cockney or such.....we are lucky to have a few unique city dialects.

Okay, monte, you are right. I have only lived here 24 years of my life. ;)

 

Yep so as an outsider I am more keen on picking up accents.

 

Yet you haven't even been remotely near most areas of the metro and have met or encountered far fewer people.  But I digress.

I think jmecklenborg made an interesting point about an ethnoreligous angle to local dialects.  I never thought of that, but it sounds plausible....

I don't know Grasscat, I think fresh ears hear things differently, instead of accepting what the mind already thinks.

 

Jeff- Boston and New York both have some distinct neighborhood dialects- Bronx and Brooklyn, Southie, etc.  But yeah, most American cities don't.

I do see his point, but he should see mine as well.  Both are legitimate.

Jeff- Boston and New York both have some distinct neighborhood dialects- Bronx and Brooklyn, Southie, etc.  But yeah, most American cities don't.

 

I find this to be an interesting subject, and, doing some googling it appears there was an urban neighborhood dialect in San Francisco at one time...Mission Irish.  And it appearst there might be some in New Orleans....

I'd hazard that there are probably lots of neighborhood-level accents in the U.S., but most probably differ in much more subtle ways than they would in the UK.  (Anyone who knows better, feel free to tell me how wrong I am.)  In the case of Cincinnati, as others have suggested, you could probably at least identify varying degrees to which the speech in influenced by Appalachian dialects, and that is something you could map.  Then, of course, you could compare it to all kinds of other spatially variable characteristics and see what matches up.  'Twould be very interesting... I wonder how much geographical comparisons and analysis the student in the posted article did in her study.

 

By the way, what are we to make of that Cincinnati accent that sounds almost like the Philadelphia accent?

I agree with Monte for the most part. But I, like Jeff DO NOT hear a southern accent in northern Kentuckians. Not even in Louisville on that note . If you want southern, go to southern KY, Tennessee, Georgia, or Mississippi. As many of you know, my wife (from New York), and myself have lived in the Memphis area for a long time and Cincinnatians' and northern Kentuckians' having southern accents are a joke to us both.

 

I will say this... west-siders (westwood, western hills, etc...)  have their own accent. It seems as though they have more of a Northeast coast twist to their accents.

don't people in cincinnati say "please?" weirdly all the time? i seem to remember that. thats not appalachian or southern, it's just some local-eze thing.

 

>By the way, what are we to make of that Cincinnati accent that sounds almost like the Philadelphia accent?

 

As ridiculous as it might sound (and to hear it it does sound ridiculous) there are actually people on the west side with "Sylvester Stallone" accents.  From what I've heard they're all Italians, but it rubs off a bit on other people.  I have some video footage from a day I took a video camera to school as a joke at my lunch table -- almost all Elder area west siders except for one guy from North College Hill and one guy from West Chester.  I used to work with a bunch of guys from NCH and there is definitely an Appalachian element to that neighborhood (though less than St. Bernard, which was mentioned before).  The guy from West Chester's parents were from I think Michigan so he doesn't count.  There is also the "Pete Rose" accent, which is rarely heard, kind of like how some Kennedy's don't have a Kennedy accent.  I had two baseball coaches with that accent though and I recognized it as being totally hilarious even though I was only 9 or 11 years old at the time.     

 

I remember my gradeschool had two teachers from Boston (they were both Boston natives who moved with their husbands) and we constantly made fun of their accents, as well as a teacher from Louisville.  So however it was that we were talking it was far from either of them.  Taking beginning algebra and geometry from someone with a Boston accent was a treat though ("fowm-u-lah").     

 

 

I think it was Buckeye Native who some time ago posted an explanation of the "Please?" phenomenon.

 

It is said to be a remnant of Cincinnati's German heritage, in which language the word "Bitte" is used to mean both "please" and "excuse me"

 

I don't know how factual that explanation is, but it seems to me to be at least plausible.

This accent point is often overblown, people speak differently but I don't usually have a problem with understanding folk.  As a black man it does interest me to find out what people perceive as a black accent.

mojo thx, that makes sense to me.

I think it was Buckeye Native who some time ago posted an explanation of the "Please?" phenomenon.

 

It is said to be a remnant of Cincinnati's German heritage, in which language the word "Bitte" is used to mean both "please" and "excuse me"

 

I don't know how factual that explanation is, but it seems to me to be at least plausible.

 

You're really close, Mojo.  The "please" phenomenon is a direct descendant of Cincinnati's German immigrant heritage.  In German, the word "bitte" can be used to mean "please", and the German phrase "wie bitte?" means "come again, please?"  So Cincinnatians left out the "come again" part and started saying "please?" when they didn't understand someone.

 

It seems to me that it's dying out, though, and it makes me sad.  I keep telling myself I need to make a conscious effort to use it, even though its more natural for me to say "pardon?" or "excuse me?" 

Thats intersting as I recall the "come again?" expression.,,but not from Cincinnati.  I wondered where that came from.

 

Its actually in a rock song  chorus by Jerry Garcia...Mission in the Rain...

 

Someone called my name you know I turned around to see

It was midnight in the mission and the bells were not for me

Come again

Walking along in the mission in the rain

Come again

Walking along in the mission in the rain

 

 

 

 

The "please" thing is totally overrated.  At some point I read about it when I was a teenager, and it was news to me, despite having lived my whole life up until that point in a neighborhood with tons of people with German names.  I've heard somebody say "please" less than five times. 

I actually have heard the please thing pretty often. Definitely more so then the other expressions listed in the article.

i've heard some people use the please thing, but i don't think i've heard it from the younger crowd.

maybe a hundred years ago it was common. (like how the workers in the cincy history museum well tell you they are 'tolerable' if you ask them how they are)

I've definitely heard "please" a lot, from young and old folks, from west siders and east siders...maybe not daily, but often.  Jake, I bet the reason you rarely heard it is because you probably speak far to clearly!

 

I do enjoy the "please" thing, but one that's even more interesting to me has been "do what?" in place of "excuse me".  I've run across at least three people who use that habitually when they don't understand you, and I know two of them grew up in Kentucky - one near Manchester, and I don't remember where the other was from, and never knew where the third was from.  Anyone else run across this?

^i've heard the "do what?" thing before. it was from west siders. (i don't think i know what an east sider sounds like)

Well maybe I didn't notice it until somebody pointed it out, and maybe I still don't really notice it.  But I honestly haven't noticed somebody say it more than a half dozen times.  I've definitely said "do what" many times.  I didn't know that was regional. 

As someone that has spent quite a few years in the south, I admit the "do what" comes out every now and then. It is a term used religiously in the south. There have been a number of times that I have said "do what" in Cincinnati and the person that I was talking to gave me a look like I spoke another language.

 

One of my bosses' even threatened that I would be fired if I said it again... in a jokingly manner of course!

Okay, so I'm guilty of using haveta.   :-P

 

The one thing I hear a lot of in Ohio is the word "warsh" as in I'm going to "warsh" some dishes/clothes or I'm going to Warshington, D.C. for a vacation.  Both my parents do this and I always remind them that their is no "r" in wash.  The only time I hear this is in Ohio.  Drives me insane.

 

I don't live in Ohio now, but I remember the first time I used the word sweeper in reference to a vaccum where I live now.  Everyone looked at me kind of strange when I said I was going to run the sweeper (which in their minds is a broom).

I've never heard "warsh" in Ohio.  I thought that was a Jersey thing.

To more precisely determine the level of hick-ness, determine that if indeed the term "warsh" is used, then what does  the speaker call the small hand cloth that one takes into the shower? Is it a "warsh-cloth" or a "warsh-rag"?

 

In the house I grew up in, it was a "warsh-rag".

 

Being more cultured than my parents, I have adapted to the term "wash-rag".

 

"Wash-cloth" sounds entirely too uppity.

Being a Westsider, I say and hear "please" all the time. I guess I can blame my German father. My east coast(Conn) mother(retired teacher) can't stand it and still tries to correct me and I'm in my thirties.  People still pick up on her east coast accent and she left Conn in her twenties. I work in NKY and my KY co-workers has strong accents. Y'all, farehouse(firehouse), hellbells, let's go smoke, I hear them all. I also work with a printer near Lousiville and they have a strong accent. Through, I think it sounds more sweet than redneck, at least from the ladies. I'm sucker for a southern female accent.

Y'all, farehouse(firehouse), hellbells, let's go smoke, I hear them all.

 

What's odd about "let's go smoke"?

Actually there's "wersh" as well as "warsh".  And I cringe, for whatever reason, every time I hear "melk" instead of milk.  Also, all of you who've lived in the south have encountered "bas cart".  I don't know if they say that in NKY but they definitely do in Tennessee.