Both my grandmothers and my grandfather were notorious for saying Cincinnatah rather than Cincinnatee.  Is this more of a regional thing or a generational thing because I usually only heard old people say it.

What's odd about "let's go smoke"?

 

+++++++

That's KY speak for going on a break at work.

I've never heard anyone under 50 say "Cincinnatuh", unless it was as a joke.

"Warsh" is widespread.  Cincinnati, Toledo, Baltimore, all over the South.  My experience with "please" is that you don't notice it until someone points it out.

 

With regard to jmecklenborg's post on "black accents" I would make this comment.  I think you graduated St. X in 1996.  I graduated Walnut Hills in 1996, and had a group of guys from X I would hang out with on occasion.  I distinctly remember being "called out" for what I assume your fellows considered a "black accent", which was nothing more than youth lingo.  Specifically I recall the word "mack", as in, "I was macking on this girl" (man, that sounds incredibly dated now that I read it) was a source of derision.  What a man for others would call out as a "black accent" was commonly used and understood phrases in public schools and later in the popular media.  To characterize hip hop phrases as being "black" is a gross exaggeration.  None of my black teachers used those words, phrases or speech patterns.  I can't help but think that if we had graduated high school in 1956, you'd have beeb arguing that words associated with bebop as being "black speech".  The moral of the story is that by the end of high school those pasty white X boys were down. 

 

On the subject of cultural phenomena (like hip hop or jazz) changing speech patterns or bringing certain words and phrases to the rhetorical fore, does anyone of sufficient age remember when the Midwest was invaded by valley girl speech?  It was in the mid to late 80's.  Though "gag me with a spoon" has fallen by the wayside, you don't think about it anymore now because, like, it's been, you know, incorporated into normal discourse or something.

Heh, scary how I still use a lot of these local oddities despite living in Arizona and California for such a long time.  I was pretty heavily exposed to "Please?" if only because I'm third generation American, and spent a lot of time around my German-descendant relatives who lived all over metro Cincinnati, and almost all of them spoke with heavy german accents and used "Please?" a lot.  You do hear "warsh" quite frequently in Cincinnati, but that's all over the place (and is especially popular amongst rural folks). 

One thing I get made fun of in Chicago is saying "I am calling off work tomorrow" instead of calling in sick.  Or as in  "Are you working tomorrow?"  "No, I am calling off".  Doesn't everyone in Ohio say that?  I never thought it was odd.

does anyone of sufficient age remember when the Midwest was invaded by valley girl speech? It was in the mid to late 80's. Though "gag me with a spoon" has fallen by the wayside, you don't think about it anymore now because, like, it's been, you know, incorporated into normal discourse or something.

 

Ya' know it!

 

You do hear "warsh" quite frequently in Cincinnati, but that's all over the place (and is especially popular amongst rural folks).

 

My grandparents, born and raised and still living in Norwalk, Ohio (not far from Sandusky) for 80+ years, both say "warsh".  I grind my teeth at it from everyone but them - it just fits on them!

 

One thing I get made fun of in Chicago is saying "I am calling off work tomorrow" instead of calling in sick. Or as in "Are you working tomorrow?" "No, I am calling off". Doesn't everyone in Ohio say that? I never thought it was odd.

 

I definitely say that - in fact, I'm sure my boss would say I say that far too often!

>With regard to jmecklenborg's post on "black accents" I would make this comment.  I think you graduated St. X in 1996.

 

Uh, yeah but I don't know how you know that.  Maybe you know some people who knew me.

 

>I graduated Walnut Hills in 1996, and had a group of guys from X I would hang out with on occasion.

 

The only person from there I knew was Kimberly Ralston who was in X's musicals.  Who were these guys? 

 

 

>I distinctly remember being "called out" for what I assume your fellows considered a "black accent", which was nothing more than youth lingo.   Specifically I recall the word "mack", as in, "I was macking on this girl" (man, that sounds incredibly dated now that I read it) was a source of derision.  What a man for others would call out as a "black accent" was commonly used and understood phrases in public schools and later in the popular media.  To characterize hip hop phrases as being "black" is a gross exaggeration.  None of my black teachers used those words, phrases or speech patterns.  I can't help but think that if we had graduated high school in 1956, you'd have beeb arguing that words associated with bebop as being "black speech".  The moral of the story is that by the end of high school those pasty white X boys were down. 

 

Well my point was that when people talk about regional dialects they usually don't mention what is traded between blacks and whites.  And even if more whites are buying specific records by black musicians than blacks, rap music, hip hop, whatever you want to call it, was then and still is overwhelmingly black in its source material.  The Beastie Boys were huge and Eminem is huge but that's pretty much it.  I agree that there was a big generational gap that formed between white kids from the early and late 80's based largely on the rise of rap and other elements of black culture into the mainstream pop culture.  But what was being consciously and subconsciously adopted by white kids at more mixed schools was more conspicuously "black" as seen by white kids in Catholic schools. 

 

>On the subject of cultural phenomena (like hip hop or jazz) changing speech patterns or bringing certain words and phrases to the rhetorical fore, does anyone of sufficient age remember when the Midwest was invaded by valley girl speech?  It was in the mid to late 80's.

 

Or roughly the same time blacks became "African-Americans". 

 

Bonus:

I just put this post through the "Ebonics Translator" (http://www.joel.net/EBONICS/ebonomail.asp):

 

>With regard ta jmecklenborg'spost on "black accents" I would make dis here comment.  I th'o't ya graduated St. X in 1996.

 

Uh, jaa but I don' know how ya know dat. Maybe ya know some peeps who knew me.

 

>I graduated Walnut Hills in 1996, an' had uh group o' pimpz from X I would hang out wiff on occasion.

 

The only person from dere I knew wuz Kimberly Ralston who wuz in X'smusicals. Who wuz deez pimpz?

 

 

>I distinctly remember being "called out" fo' what I assume yo' fellows considered uh "black accent", which wuz nuttin' mo' than youth lingo.   Specifically I recall da werd "mack", as in, "I wuz macking on dis here girl" (man, dat sounds incredibly dated now dat I read it) wuz uh source o' derision.  What uh nig fo' others would page out as uh "black accent" wuz commonly used an' understood phrases in public schools an' later in da popular media.  To characterize hip hop phrases as being "black" iz uh gross exaggeration.  None o' muh ma fuckin negroid teachers used those werdz, phrases or speech patterns.  I can't he`p but th'o't dat if we's had graduated high skoo in 1956, you'd gots beeb arguing dat werdz associated wiff bebop as being "black speech".  The moral o' da story iz dat by da end o' high skoo those pasty whitey X nigs wuz down. 

 

Well muh ma fuckin point wuz dat when peeps jive about regional dialects dey usually don' mention what iz traded between blacks an' whites. And even if mo' whites iz buying specific records by negroid musicians than blacks, rap rap, hip hop, whatever ya wants ta page it, wuz then an' still iz overwhelmingly negroid in its source material. The Beastie Boys wuz huge an' Eminem iz huge but dat'sfine ass much it. I agree dat dere wuz uh big generational gap dat formed between whitey kids from da early an' late 80'sbased largely on da rise o' rap an' other elements o' negroid culture into da mainstream pop culture. But what wuz being consciously an' subconsciously adopted by whitey kids at mo' mixed schools wuz mo' conspicuously "black" as seen by whitey kids in Catholic schools.

 

>On da subject o' cultural phenomena (like hip hop or jazz) changing speech patterns or bringing certain werdz an' phrases ta da rhetorical fore, do anyone o' sufficient age remember when da Midwest wuz invaded by valley ho speech?  It wuz in da mid ta late 80 's.

 

Or roughly da same tyme blacks became "African-Americans".

Ya' know what I'm sayin'?

 

 

 

 

 

 

My grandparents, born and raised and still living in Norwalk, Ohio (not far from Sandusky) for 80+ years, both say "warsh". I grind my teeth at it from everyone but them - it just fits on them!

 

It can't be as bad as hearing "I knowed".  My grandma says that.

 

^They've got a few fantastic phrases...my favorite is "purtnere", which is a contraction of "pretty near" and translates as "almost" - "he stuck his hand in the tractor and it purtnere got tore off!"

Here is a test on what dialect you speak from today's Cool Cleveland:

 

http://www.blogthings.com/amenglishdialecttest/

I worked with some older people (one is in her 60's and and another in his 70's) at a local raceway.  She was from McCutcheonsville, Ohio (that's how she said it, with the 's') and he was from Ayersville, Ohio.  Both are in northwest Ohio.  They both pronounce Toledo like "To-lee-duh".  Is that a northwest Ohio, older generational thing?

 

 

Also, I am accustomed to saying, "pry" instead of "probably".  Is that just a north central Ohio thing? (or is it that hillbilly Indiana thing from my mom's side of the family LOL)

I always end up saying "probably" as "prolly"...normally I'm quite non-sloppy with such things, so I just have that one rooted deeply...

probably usually comes out probly when I speak & prolly when I write

Does anyone actually pronounce the T in Dayton ?

It seems to usually be p;ronounced Day-uhn.

^ More precisely, the T is sort of a glottal stop: "Day'n".

 

I can think of one kid from school who would actually the pronounce the T, but he had sort of a strange speech pattern to begin with.

Please?

probably usually comes out probly when I speak & prolly when I write

Does anyone actually pronounce the T in Dayton ?

It seems to usually be p;ronounced Day-uhn.

 

No one who is FROM Dayton would actually say "Day-ton."  It is "Day'in," regardless of linguistic differences and such.  "Day-ton" just doesn't sound right when said.

I say "DAYT-in"

Same goes for Eaton (where I have relatives).........we all say "Ea-in"

 

However, I do say Kipton (Lorain County) as it is spelled.

I say DAYT-in.

Jeez, I must be too much of a language Nazi... it's driving me nuts to see that "i" in everyone's phonetic spelling of Dayton!  I know how you're all actually pronouncing it, but when I read "Day'in" it sounds different in my mind.  If only it were simpler to use a superscrpit schwa like Merriam-Webster does. :-D

 

Anyway, something less pedantic (or perhaps not) that I wanted to say is that the (non)pronunciation of the "T" is Dayton or Eaton is fairly universal in American English so far as I've noticed (except, apparently, for X, that weirdo).  It's like "kitten" or "rotten" or "Patton," for instance.  I think very few people clearly enunciate the T's in the middle of those words, although it's not the same as if the T were not there at all.

 

All this is really crossing into the territory of that other thread on American English...

no one is really saying "in" for the last syllable of dayton.  it's more like a syllabic N sound.  after the glottal stop, it's just the N drawn out for a syllable's length.

I generally say "Tuh-lee-doh," since that's what I hear most of the black folks from that area say.

 

Cincinnati in general is a mix of two phoenitics; east side and west side.  West side is typically more "Appalachian/Southern" while the east side is well..."white boy speak" as I call it (hey duuude, what's up man!! type shit).  I can almost always tell who's from where (though, as grasscat will point out, the accents will spill over into both sides of the metro).  Cincinnati is probably the only city in Ohio that has such a divide, linguistically within itself. 

 

Cleveland, nuff said.

 

Oh, and as for reference, many Toledoans I've met (white, I'm talking about) have a hybrid Northern (re: Michigan) and Appalachian.  I didn't notice it until my friend from Sylvania pointed it out (perhaps as CDawg said, due to the farming/rural influence).  And oy, the country music stations...

 

Dayton typically has an Appalachian accent, due to the large migration to the area from WV and KY.  Ditto, perhaps, with Indianapolis (though more Kentucky with them).

 

Columbus, linguistically, natives tend to have an Appalachian accent while transplants have Cleveland accents.  Oy...

Trust me, Columbus has the accent as much as Dayton has the accent, that's for damn sure.  It is Ohio's most "Appalachian" major city (hell, the location alone...).  That is not a bad thing, as Columbus has a wonderful Appalachian culture.  Ditto with Dayton.

 

Though I don't see how a correlation between Irish/Scottish on that list with Appalachians in Columbus/Dayton moreso than other Ohio cities, since the list literally looks the same regarding those demographics and all of Ohio's core counties.  If anything, that data shows that Appalachians are all over Ohio (if we are using Scottish-Irish/Scottish/Irish as the main group).

 

I don't know a single person from metro Toledo who listens to country, except for a friend from Waterville, but Waterville is still somewhat a farm-town and not really "connected" (by development) to Toledo.

 

I can shoot you three alone on my Facebook profile that love country and live in Toledo Metro.

K100 is in Toledo.  There's also a station in Tiffin.  I'm pretty sure people listen to them.  Stations that no one listens to generally don't stay on the air.

I always seem to hit country music stations on my way/in Toledo.  It's really weird.  I try to get that Juice thing but they cut to some bullshit on my way to Detroit...so I basically turn to Detroit stations in Toledo since I'm frustrated.

 

That isn't to say that Toledo doesn't have great radio stations but perhaps my dial isn't dialing them (though again, I do like Juice)...

Oh, yeah...I didn't even mention Detroit stations or even stations from Canada....but they're there.

lol   And I can name 20 kids from Cleveland who listen to country. All about the friends you choose. I tend to hate country so much, that I can't be friends with people that have that as their favorite genre of music. 

 

Exactly.  If you don't hang with people like that, you aren't going to hear it.  Every city in Ohio has country stations (wasn't Cleveland recently named "best country radio station" or something like that?).  It all depends.  I was just referring to your comment about "I don't know anybody in Metro Toledo that listens to country."  Some folks do ;).

 

Like I said, every market should have a country channel as it is a relatively popular genre of music. I'm pretty sure K100 would be the only one in Toledo, unless there's another one from Detroit that people can pick up. I know for a fact that Cleveland and Dayton both have country, so I wouldn't put too much stock into it.

 

Everybody's got country.  Even New York.  It just seems that everytime I go through Toledo to Detroit, I always seem to get an unusual amount of country stations (sans Juice and some KISS crap).  I heard that Hot 97.3 once and it seemed like a typical Radio One station (Jeezy and such).

Columbus, linguistically, natives tend to have an Appalachian accent while transplants have Cleveland accents.  Oy...

 

...so since the appalachians were the earlier groups that came to columbus, and now the cleveland-pittsburgh area is where all the new people are from, that could really make the next generation of columbus people talk really funny :lol:

Regarding "Dayton" - it does get kind of confusing and there are probably three ways to go.  To say that there is a glottal stop and that most people don't pronounce the T is I think a little misleading.  You have

 

DAY-ton, DAY-tin  (two syllables, with an 'aspirated' t sound... hold your hand over your mouth; if you feel a puff of air when you pronounce that second syllable, that's aspirated "T")

 

DATE-on , DATE-in  (a barely pronounced T, but I don't think technically it can be called a glottal stop.  Pronounced similar to how a southerner might say, "I don't want you datin' my daughter!"  This is how I say it and how I've heard 95% of the people I know say it)

 

DAY-in, DAY-on (full on glottal stop with no T sound at all.  As mentioned above, some people pronounce words with a t sound in the middle without the T, as in "Kitten" (Ki-n).

Thank you.  When I see people saying they pronounce it DAY-in, all I can think of is "Oh no you di-nt."

 

I think it would be most accurate for me to say that I pronounce it DATE'n.  Which is not to be read as day-T-n.

 

C-Dawg, Appalachian culture is interesting to me as well.  I know here in Cleveland they are widely regarded as a very distinct migrant group.  They haven't assimilated into our typical northern white culture like most European immigrants, however.  They still largely live in isolated pockets here and there and maintain their speech patterns, and unfortunately, their "white underclass" status.  Some would argue that the two go hand in hand.

DATE-on , DATE-in  (a barely pronounced T, but I don't think technically it can be called a glottal stop.  Pronounced similar to how a southerner might say, "I don't want you datin' my daughter!"  This is how I say it and how I've heard 95% of the people I know say it)

I'd have to say this is how I pronounce it, as well as what I hear from most other people.

 

DAY-ton, DAY-tin  (two syllables, with an 'aspirated' t sound... hold your hand over your mouth; if you feel a puff of air when you pronounce that second syllable, that's aspirated "T")

I think the only people who I really hear pronounce it this way are people like out of town speakers..... "It is so great to be here in DAY-ton Ohio.."  Then again, maybe I'm just not really paying attention.

Everybody's got country.  Even New York. 

 

..and Chicago. Back in the early days of radio there was the "WLS Barn Dance".

 

...this is where Bill Monroe, the "father of bluegrass music" first peformed on the air..he was living in East Chicago at the time.

 

And in the 1960s there was WJJD that played "Country/Western"...

 

Among the musicians that had country connections to start in Chicago was John Prine, whos father was from Kentucky...western KY, same as Bill Monroe.

 

(actually there was a whole neighborhood of appalachian people...hillbillies they where called... in Chicago back then, in the Uptown area)

 

For Ohio, Dwight Yoakam, the country star, came from Columbus (tho he broke on the West Coast doing openers for punk acts).

 

@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

They Dayton pronunciation..never thought on it...

 

DATE-on , DATE-in  (a barely pronounced T, but I don't think technically it can be called a glottal stop.  Pronounced similar to how a southerner might say, "I don't want you datin' my daughter!"  This is how I say it and how I've heard 95% of the people I know say it)

 

Thats how I say it, too...Datin', or Dayt'n

 

 

@@@@@@

 

Speaking of Appalachians the Appalachian Studies Association, which is a group of academics, is going to have a conference here in Dayton this year in March, topic being urban appalachians....here is a link to their conf. website....

 

Both Ends of the Road

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some northerners think of the southern accent as "ignorant" which obviously is bullshit...

 

Quite true. 

 

But as far as the people in Ohio with the strongest southern accents, I think that title goes to Circleville. I can't even understand some of the people from there.

 

I had a secretary from New Boston, over near Portsmouth, and she had such a thick accent it was nearly unintelligible.

Speaking of the Dayton dialect there is a sort of old way of pronouncing placenames I picked up...i think its from the German...

 

Miamisburg, for example.  I prononunce it My-am-eesburg.

 

Old timers pronounce it "Mi-am-is-berk" (with a short i) or "My-am-is-berk". 

 

 

 

 

^I've heard both as well.

Hey...............nothing like bringing a nearly year-old topic back from the dead!!!

 

I took that survey about my linguistic profile and here's the results:

 

75% General American English

10% Upper Midwestern

5% Dixie

5% Midwestern

0% Yankee

 

 

 

One more thing.....................I've come to find out that it seems like I am the only person in Chicagoland that pronounces "gyro" like j-eye-ro.  Everyone laughs at me when I say it that way :)  Most people here pronounce it "geer-uh".  How do y'all say it?

One more thing.....................I've come to find out that it seems like I am the only person in Chicagoland that pronounces "gyro" like j-eye-ro.  Everyone laughs at me when I say it that way :)  Most people here pronounce it "geer-uh".  How do y'all say it?

 

Well, it depends.  Are you talking about Greek food or like a gyroscope?

One more thing.....................I've come to find out that it seems like I am the only person in Chicagoland that pronounces "gyro" like j-eye-ro.  Everyone laughs at me when I say it that way :)  Most people here pronounce it "geer-uh".  How do y'all say it?

 

In Detroit it's "gear-oce", or "year-oce." In Columbus it's "What?"

 

"Warsh" is widespread.  Cincinnati, Toledo, Baltimore, all over the South.  My experience with "please" is that you don't notice it until someone points it out.

 

"Warsh," and its derivations, is a mystery unto itself. You'll hear Michael Moore say "Warshington" and he's from Flint. Must be a ruralism more than anything else.

I generally say "Tuh-lee-doh," since that's what I hear most of the black folks from that area say.

 

I pronounce it "Toh-REE-doh because that's how most of the--oh never mind.

 

Columbus, linguistically, natives tend to have an Appalachian accent while transplants have Cleveland accents.  Oy...

 

And Colday, being of mixed Ohio linguistic heritage, speaks with a heavy yiddish accent. Those of us who have met him know this to be true.

 

But really, here's a short (and growing) list of words I've heard Columbusites habitually mispronounce:

 

Acrost (Across)

Critict (Critic)

Supposably (Supposedly)

Eckspecially (Especially) -- HATE this one.

Febuary (February)

Libary (Library)

 

I've picked up some serious Appalachain accents, but to be fair, those folks are fairly recent transplants. Aside from that, accents as flat and wide as central Ohio itself.

I still say "prolly" instead of "probably" if I'm speaking quickly...not sure if that's regional or just me being lazy...

 

My favorite is my grandpa, from Norwalk, who says "pert-neer" in place of "almost" - as in, "I pert-neer finished making wood for the winter, but I might go out one more time."  I believe it's a contraction of "pretty near," but I can't be sure.

 

I was good friends with a guy who's parents were from Greece back in high school and his parents opened up two Greek restaurants. They are doing excellent and make great Gyros. It's "yeer-roh", BTW.

One more thing.....................I've come to find out that it seems like I am the only person in Chicagoland that pronounces "gyro" like j-eye-ro.  Everyone laughs at me when I say it that way :)  Most people here pronounce it "geer-uh".  How do y'all say it?

 

 

Well, it depends.  Are you talking about Greek food or like a gyroscope?

 

that lamb-thing :)

:-D I'd absolutely love to start hearing people pronunce "gyroscope"  as "yiroscope".  It's the same root so if gyro is yiro then the scope can be the same thing.

 

 

Two things I realize by looking back at this old thread.

 

1. I still think that river is a barrier even after 3.5 years in the metro.  A good barrier too because I am not a fan of the south or southern accents.

 

2. C-Dawg polluted another Cincinnati thread with Toledo mumbo jumbo.

Another Columbusism:

 

Ecksetera (Etcetera)

 

Hate it.

^ Not a Columbusism... that is universal.

Another Columbusism:

 

Ecksetera (Etcetera)

 

Hate it.

 

It's in Michigan too, trout.

Never in my waters.

You must be from a glass bowl.