.... and even was there at night and you just use common sense. It's better to travel with others and don't taking shortcuts in some forlorn, unlit backstreet. Maybe that's a problem since these people seem to lack the common sense needed when in any city.

 

hmmm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I worked on the superblock of the Arcade and was always curious about what it looked like inside.  I think its such a huge complex and there's so many antiquated buildings that are attached to it that its a real head scratcher in what to do with it.  For people in Northeast Ohio to understand its basically like a small tower city.  I imagine its more like if the Arcade of Cleveland was in the center of Tower City and all the buildings surrounding it were 70-80+yrs old.  There's one new big office building sort of attached to it but thats pretty much it for investment on that block in the past 20-30 years.  I just remember during storms watching water pour into the various open windows of the complex because of broken gutters pointed straight into windows.  That can't be good for that old of a structure having water pouring in from the 3rd floor.  I'm definitely not an engineer, but it wouldn't surprise me to see structural failure in some of those buildings that are pushing 100yrs old.

 

My guess is that because of lack of any investment this will go on for another 3-5 years with no ideas of what to do with it and then it will be prudent to just rip it all down and start over.  Its probably a bit of a drag on the city center especially since thats why the bus transfer station was set up there next to the arcade.  I'm amazed that someone hasn't been bold enough just to reopen it since there's so many people that work on 3rd and main and other buildings right there.  Plenty enough day-time foot traffic and available workers.  Sad.

The old "Chemineer" building is also on the block, one of the few surviving 19th century commercial buildings downtown.  I think quite a bit was spent on renovating it and building a secondary entrance off of Main (with that sloping glass wall).  That apparently was a sucessfull adaptive reuse.

 

I just remember during storms watching water pour into the various open windows of the complex because of broken gutters pointed straight into windows.  That can't be good for that old of a structure having water pouring in from the 3rd floor.  I'm definitely not an engineer, but it wouldn't surprise me to see structural failure in some of those buildings that are pushing 100yrs old.

 

When I was up on the adajacent parking garage taking pix I notice some attic doors open to the roof (the pitched roofs facing Courthouse Square), so another way for water to enter the building and do damage, if the framing is wood.

 

The building has a built-up roof with quite a few penetrations for HVAC equipment and equipment supports, and multiple levels, so there are plenty of opportunities for roof leaks at penetrations and flashing.  Also, the life span for a built up roof is around 20-25 years, which means that if this roof was last replaced during the early 80s renovation, it is reaching the end of it's service life (smart move by Danis to dump the building when they did), so one can expect a higher risk of roof leaks, or increasing frequency of leaks.

 

Actually, I just noticed the problem after I posted. The people that live there don't live in the city. What's the downtown housing situation there? If it could be converted into apartments/condos, would there be a demand?

 

Yeah, the ironic thing about the Arcade is that it was originally built with apartments in it, on the upper floors, which where occupied up into the 1970s, I think, before the  first renovation.  The original redevelopment concept was to also renovate the apartments, too, but this never happened.

 

I don't know what the market is for downtown living..there have been loft conversions downtown, and even some new construction.  The latest attempt at conversion went belly-up, though (the Schwind building across the street), perhaps more problems with the developer than the market.

 

 

@@@@@@@@@@

 

 

I am getting the feeling that we are on a death watch for this building, given the lack of interest in re-using it somehow.

 

 

 

It still completely boggles my mind that this building is even being considered for demolition. Trust me, even though I was about 8 years old at the time - I remember the grandeur of this amazing structure and Dayton will be a lesser city without it.

Not really.  As long as the BurgerMaster and Broaster Hut are around, Dayton will still be the same.  Now if one of those two leave, then I'm going to start a coalition of tremendous terror.  It'll be an outrage!

Not really.  As long as the BurgerMaster and Broaster Hut are around, Dayton will still be the same.  Now if one of those two leave, then I'm going to start a coalition of tremendous terror.  It'll be an outrage!

 

no love for chicken louie's on main st.?

 

Chicken Louie's is the "Skyline Chili" of Dayton-style chicken.  It's great to take the white folks to but it isn't the best.

but isn't it getting torn down for some highway onramp or some garbage?

 

there used to be a lee's chicken in hilliard, but it went away like a decade ago. their website spells cincinnati with a second t, if you look in store locations...

No, Chicken Louie's is fine.  Some chili place is being torn down for I-75's realignment but Chicken Louie's will be fine.

I stopped at that chili place recently. Its pretty bad. 

 

As for the Arcade, turn it into a big wholesale chicken market for all the chicken places in town.

Greatest Idea Ever.

Greatest Idea Ever.

 

Because in Dayton, Chicken licking is licking Chicken.

Always a man of wit, aren't you.

Always a man of wit, aren't you.

 

It's a free-for-all tonight....BA-BEE!!!

Anyone want to buy the arcade?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dayton-Ohio-Historic-Arcade-Building-w-Glass-Rotunda_W0QQitemZ4469198601QQihZ001QQcategoryZ15825QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

DAMN! if I only had the money, it would be mine!!!! I can't believe it's on ebay...then again everything else is! ;-)

Asking price $4M.  Small skyscraper included

 

The seller has a "store":

 

Sherrys Riffraff

 

 

 

 

 

^ Love that store!  Hmm... I'm shopping for a gift, but I can't decide between the "Courage Under Fire" figurine and the Historic Arcade Building with Glass Rotunda! :lol:

More on the Arcade ebay auction....from the DDN.

You Can Bid on the Arcade On Ebay

 

 

DAYTON | You can find just about anything for sale on eBay, including Dayton's historic downtown Arcade.

 

Tony Staub, president of Brownfield Charities Inc, owner of the Arcade, on Tuesday confirmed he listed the 1902-era building for sale.

 

The asking price for the 260,000 square-foot-building with picturesque rotunda at 28 W. Third St. is $4 million.

 

Brownfield Charities has been unsuccessful in finding a developer for the building and property taxes have mounted.

 

Montgomery County Treasurer Hugh Quill is ready to sell to investors delinquent property tax liens on the Arcade, a move that could take the complex out of local control and clear the way for demolition.

Investors float $19 million proposal for Arcade

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

 

DAYTON — Private investors have a eye on one of the city's most treasured historic landmarks — Dayton's downtown Arcade — and a $19 million proposal to transform it into an entertainment and arts attraction.

 

Owner Tony Staub, president of Brownfield Charities Inc., said Wednesday he has been discussing a proposal with investors for almost a year that could reopen the turn-of-the-century building, with its exquisite Italianate galleries and soaring glass-domed rotunda.

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/12/06/ddn120606arcadeweb.html

 

Activities could include restaurants, art galleries, an aquarium, a theme hotel, indoor black light miniature golf, a disco and more.

 

This is another example of the Dayton Daily McNews printing a non-story.  Perhaps these "investors" are the same folks that claimed they were going to build a theme park in the Dayton region that was bigger than Cedar Point or Kings Island.  All they were missing was the funding - minor detail!  (DDN printed that story on front page - anybody remember that one?)

 

I love Dayton, but damn I wish I had a dime for every new "project" that was proposed and then forgotten!

^ too funny. lorain county had exactly that amusement park plan for the black river valley back in the days. all that stopped them was um...money. thank god calmer heads prevailed and today that spot is a beautiful metropark instead. still, there is no end of crazy schemes up there either. the billions of dollars quarry resort fiasco was the latest, there is a thread on it which i wouldn't waste your time over if i was you, except if you want to see it's not just dayton that comes up w/ stuff like that. i know, little consolation huh? lol!

 

 

 

Oh, and perhaps this is one of those "Dayton Quirks" where Dayton is an inventor's paradise, and the inventive spirit lives on in grandiose projects!  Screw cash registers and airplanes...we need more J. Crew!

Here's the chart from the DDN with what they want to do, Let the ripping a part of it begin..  :|

 

Dear Christ.

 

It's Forest Fair Mall all over again.

The lien for the Arcade was placed in a bundle for sale in November and was sold to Florida group American Tax Funding LLC, which later sold the Arcade lien to a hedge fund in New York City represented by Optimum Realty in Elmhurst, Ill., said Dan Friedman, president of Optimum.

 

The owner can pay on the delinquent taxes for one year before the lienholder has the option to foreclose on the property and list it for a sheriff's sale, said Nancy Kelly, acting treasurer of Montgomery County.

 

Friedman said that for projects such as the Arcade, he recommends his client put the properties on a sheriff's sale after the first year. He thinks that because the properties are so high-profile, they easily will sell once placed on the block. If they don't and the lienholder buys the property, Friedman said his client likely would help to redevelop the Arcade.

 

It sounds like the next step will be the sherrif's sale.   

 

For what it's worth, here is the website of Optimum Realty: Taxlein.com

 

It would be interesting to do a timeline and flow chart of the Arcades' road to perdition, from the initial aquisition &  redevelopement in the 1970s to today, as a failure analyses exercise.

 

 

Dale Huffman is a popular local columnist, and has been writing for the Dayton papers since the 1970s)

 

Dale Huffman: Hope is still alive for Downtown's Arcade building

 

By Dale Huffman

Staff Writer

Thursday, June 07, 2007

 

Don't give up on the downtown Arcade yet.

 

There is a grassroots effort getting off the ground exploring all options, and raising money to save the historic complex in downtown Dayton from wrecker's hammers.

 

the Friends to Save the Arcade Web site is: friendstosavethearcade.wetpaint.com. Or you can call Diane Wallace at (937) 296-4154.

 

 

is it possible we can add "Dayton" to the title of this thread?

I was at the library today and Leon handed me this flyer:

 

Friends to Save the Arcade (FSA)

 

--Concerned about the fate of downtown Dayton’s Arcade?

--Want to supprt Tony Straub, the nonprofit owner of the Arcade and help rise $270,00 to pay the tax lein by 12/31/2007??

--Believe that WE can make a difference ?  Remember how the Victoria was saved!

--When demolition begins let it not be said that “I wished I had helped Save The Arcade”, if we fail to save the Arcade, at least lets go down fighting!

 

 

ATTEND A GRASSROOTS PUBLIC MEETING OF CONCERNED CITIZENS

 

Wednesday, June 13, 12 noon, 5 PM, and 7 PM, Dayton Metro Library 215 E. Third Street, Dayton, 2nd Floor Auditorium.  Parking meters near the library are 25 cents an hour

 

1. The meeting of concerned citizens to Save the Arcade is organized by Maribeth (Eiken) Graham,, founding member in 1975 of the nonprofit that saved the Victoria Theatre, [email protected] --Leon Bey, tour leader of Gem City Circle Walking Tours, retired librarian and fundraising consultant, [email protected] -- Joanne Granzow, founder and trustee of Grassroots Dayton,  [email protected]

2. [u-]Meet[/u] Arcade owner Tony Staub.

3. See a presentation of the current condition of the Arcade.

4. Learn how you can make a difference and how you can help Save the Arcade.

5. Make a commitment of time/energy/talents/#’s to Friends to Save the Arcade.

 

Can’t attent the meeting?  Email a commitment to [email protected] or call Diane Wallace, Gem City Walking Tours, (937)296-4154,  State what you will do—see Immediate Needs below. Include name, address, zip, phone, and email.

 

Make checks payable to Friends to Save the Arcade (FSA) and sent to The Dayton Foundation, 2300 Kettering Tower, Dayton, OH 45323.  Thank You.

 

Immediate Needs:

1. Donated office  & meeting space, office furniture, computers, telephone, copy, machines and paper, etc.  Contact Leon Bey at the above email address.

2. Volunteer coordinators and volunteers to fundraise, create brochures, phone work, speaker’s bureau, office help, sell souvenirs, etc.  What will you do?  Contact Dianne Wallace at phone number listed above for details.

 

Check out our webstite:  www.freindstosavethearcade.wetpaint.com

 

Tell your friends about the Wed June 13, 12, 5, and 7 PM meetings.

 

 

is it possible we can add "Dayton" to the title of this thread?

 

Did you confuse this with the arcades in Cleveland?  I thought they have all been saved.

...sounds pointless,  but I'll probably attend since I am a bit of an aquaintance with Leon as he used to help in the library history room, which I use a lot.  Noblesse oblige.

 

I doubt I will get involved as this is a city issue and I don't live or work in the city.  It is pretty presumptious of comitted suburbanites such as myself to say "Oh, You Should Preserve This!", when I have no stake in the issue, in terms of tax money or things like that.  The people of Dayton has a lot worse things to deal with, like school funding and basic services, than to worry about fluff like historic preservation.

 

And, to be brutally frank, the building is useless.  It has no economically viable function that would justify restoration. 

 

 

 

 

"Did you confuse this with the arcades in Cleveland?  I thought they have all been saved."

 

It's common courtesy to put the specific city in the thread title.

Would it be possible for someone to post a picture?  Not everyone is familiar with the structure.

ColDay Photo:

The people of Dayton has a lot worse things to deal with, like school funding and basic services, than to worry about fluff like historic preservation.

 

And, to be brutally frank, the building is useless.  It has no economically viable function that would justify restoration. 

 

Dayton is big enough to tackle school funding and basic services AND worry about historic preservation.  It does take the suburbanites to realize that Dayton is their city as well and it would be "oh so nice" for them to recognize the value of historic structures throughout the area.  I would entirely disagree the building is useless (I suppose the same argument could be made for the Giza Pyramids, which are nothing more than gigantic catacombs for aristocracy) as the Arcade has historic value, is not in major disrepair, and is adjacent to the central hub of downtown.  If anything, the building's "use" could be quite valuable for the city of Dayton and the Miami Valley (hell, Ohio) as it could be turned into a hotel (which downtown Dayton needs more of), a farmers market (which would be nice), or even lofts (eh, why not?).  It's far more valuable than turning the building into a parking lot/structure.

  It does take the suburbanites to realize that Dayton is their city as well and it would be "oh so nice" for them to recognize the value of historic structures throughout the area. 

 

I would entirely disagree the building is useless (I suppose the same argument could be made for the Giza Pyramids, which are nothing more than gigantic catacombs for aristocracy) as the Arcade has historic value,

 

Oh good grief, Giza…how about a better comparison being the baroque and rennaissance palaces of the old German petty states, which are now used for universities and government offices and occasionally a  muscum (or in some cases a mix, where the throne room and ballroom are the museum and the drawing rooms become govt. offices). 

 

But that’s Germany, and this is Dayton.  Over there there is enough appreciation of the value of these places to be put to re-use vs here, where the political will doen’t exist for that.   

 

There was a chance to elect a mayor who did have the Arcade as the top of his priority list and tried to make it a campaign issue, but he was defeated, so the people have spoken in terms of who they elect to office and what their priorities are.

 

For Dayton, the priorities seem to be Ballpark Village, a Wal Mart in place of Parkside Homes, and maybe more housing down there aound the base ball diamond.   And the city want to construct two rec centers.  So those are  the priority of the city government,  the future….   The Arcade is just a bad memory of the 1970s and 80s.

 

 

….is not in major disrepair

 

Don’t be so sure of that.  It has its windows still, but you don’t know about the condition of the roof and skylights or building utilities.

 

 

as it could be turned into a hotel (which downtown Dayton needs more of), a farmers market (which would be nice), or even lofts (eh, why not?).

 

The rotunda part was a market, which would have been a good re-use idea when there was still a possibility of re-using it.   However, the action downtown has moved away from the center of downtown out to the northern and eastern edges of it…mainly east of Main, w. some exceptions.

 

Besides, the fad for adaptive re-use of old things has passed.  The hot new types of development are things like The Banks or Newport on the Levee or that area around the arena in Columbus.   And I’m not so sure about the loft market downtown anymore, due to the problems with the Merc and the past financial trouble with old Beaver Power building lofts.

 

It's far more valuable than turning the building into a parking lot/structure.

 

I wonder what the value really is.  I know its carried on the auditors books for a few mill.  But what is its market value…apparently the amount of the tax lien.   And would the assessed value be less if the buildings torn down, yet more marketable as a somewhat clean site”

 

If one bought the tax lein and tore down the building, one would incur a demolition cost.  Yet the tax savings via a reassessment (plus some income from, say, leasing the bare site to PMI or going into the parking buisiness), might make the payback worth it.    Onewould use the tax savings + parking revenue to sort of “pay off” the demo cost., while putting the property on the market, with a price higher than it would be with the Arcade on-site.

 

It might be possible to actually make money demolishing the Arcade.

 

I wonder if anyone has priced the demo costs yet?

"Besides, the fad for adaptive re-use of old things has passed."

 

What is this bubble you live in?

It does take the suburbanites to realize that Dayton is their city as well and it would be "oh so nice" for them to recognize the value of historic structures throughout the area.

 

I recognize the value of the historic structures in Centerville and Germantown.  So do the people who live in Centerville and Germantown.

 

Yet, in the case of the Arcade, the political entity that should be doing something, IMHO, is the county, since they did step up to the plate and operate Courthouse square, and it is there offices that are selling the tax lein.  They are also the only entity that is all encompassing enough to act as sort of a unified community, city/suburb (as well as having the money to maybe purchase the Arcade and prevent it from demolition).

 

The issue, at bottom, is political will and community interest.  This has been lacking since the mid 1990s, when the last serious attempt to investigate re-use occured.  After that "lofts", "baseball", "Riverscape", and "Wright Brothers" became the big deals in redevelopment.

 

...and looks like the next big deal is going to be the old NCR site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

..it's not a demolition, it's a mercy killing.

It's a misspelling.

Oh good grief, Giza…how about a better comparison being the baroque and rennaissance palaces of the old German petty states, which are now used for universities and government offices and occasionally a  muscum (or in some cases a mix, where the throne room and ballroom are the museum and the drawing rooms become govt. offices). 

 

But that’s Germany, and this is Dayton.  Over there there is enough appreciation of the value of these places to be put to re-use vs here, where the political will doen’t exist for that. 

 

There was a chance to elect a mayor who did have the Arcade as the top of his priority list and tried to make it a campaign issue, but he was defeated, so the people have spoken in terms of who they elect to office and what their priorities are.

 

For Dayton, the priorities seem to be Ballpark Village, a Wal Mart in place of Parkside Homes, and maybe more housing down there aound the base ball diamond.  And the city want to construct two rec centers.  So those are  the priority of the city government,  the future….  The Arcade is just a bad memory of the 1970s and 80s.

 

Giza was an exaggeration but got the point across.  I could've used any example (Germanic palaces, included).  Historic architecture should always be valued and I don't give a damn if it's "simply Dayton" and "how things work in Dayton" type of mentality.  Dayton still has creative types and people who care about the building (along with those in Ohio) and it should be preserved for future use.

 

Don’t be so sure of that.  It has its windows still, but you don’t know about the condition of the roof and skylights or building utilities.

 

Well, let's compare that to, say, Michigan Central Station and we can safely say the condition is adequate for adaptive reuse.

 

And I’m not so sure about the loft market downtown anymore, due to the problems with the Merc and the past financial trouble with old Beaver Power building lofts.

 

If managed correctly, condos at the Arcade could do quite well.  A bad apple really doesn't spoil the basket these days...

 

We can gloom and doom all we want (typical rustbelt mentality) but if we want to save the Arcade, then we must become more positive about the city, support the arts, invest in the city, etc.  And when I say we, I don't mean Jeff nor I but Daytonians (meaning, city AND suburbs) in general.  That may sound UncleRando-ish but damnit, sometimes threads need it.

 

...note the painted decorations here.  I used to think these were terra cotta or some form of plaster or painted carvings.

 

It turns out they are formed of tin, and then painted.  As part of the restoration there was a building forensics investigation done of the these, to find out the original composition, color and hue, of the paint, so that the original paint could be duplicated as close as possible.

 

Pretty neat, huh?  They really did a good job with this initial restoration.

 

 

 

 

I was at the 5 PM meeting for this.

 

Apparently the got 20 people at the earier meeting, and around 30-35 at the 5 PM meeting (my rough count)

 

There appears to be more supprort than I thought.  A local realtor who owns the building across from the Victory Theatre had donated space and office furinture, so there is a space to work from. 

 

Believe it or not, cyncial/bitter old me has volunteered for this effort.  I am now on the "Research Comittee".  Maybe I can tap on some of the expertise here at UO?

 

Demolition of the Arcade is a very real possibility.  The owner says there is a series of bureaucratic hoops one must pass through, but, with a good architect and lawyer, they are not difficult to jump through to get to demolition. 

 

The utilities, including the fire suppression system, were turned off 2 years ago as the owner can't afford to keep them operating, so the building is no longer pickled, but deteriorating due to weathering. 

 

There was an attempt to open the Arcade up for limited tours for urban nights, but the city said the fire marshal wouldnt permit this.  A speaker said this might not be the case as the city bureaucracy might not have sufficiently informed the fire marshall (implying a sort of bureaucratic veto).

 

 

There is no real re-use plan at this time...the intent is to keep ownership local and generate political support for re-use. To "stir the pot" (in Leon Beys' words).

 

 

 

From todays Dayton Daily News, which also included two big pix of the interior: 

 

Group hopes to spare Arcade from demolition

The Friends to Save the Arcade has until Nov. 19 to pay off a $318,600 tax lien.

 

By Evan Millward

Staff Writer

 

Friday, July 27, 2007

 

DAYTON — Time is running out to save the Arcade.

 

The Friends to Save the Arcade met Thursday to talk about how to pay off the $318,600 tax lien on the historic buildings by Nov. 19.

 

www.daytondailynews.com

The question I have is that this group has had two meetings now, a website, and email addresses....

 

yet no contact from:

 

Dayton History (the local historical society)

 

Preservation Dayton (the local preservationist group)

 

The Downtown Dayton Partnership (the local downtown property & buisness group)(though this may be changing in light of the Urban Nights interest)

 

The Downtown Priority Board

 

local government of various types and levels

 

The local Chamber of Commerce and regional development coalition

 

...and so forth.

 

It seems that all the stakeholders that would be affected by this property are silent on it, and are ignoring this effort to generate interest in saving it.  In fact, the director of brownfield charities, Tony Staub, has said people involved in the above groups actually avoid him on the street, avoid talking to him.

 

I know MayDay read my beads upthread for being cynical about this building, but geez louise, whats up with the people and organizations who are the real players in downtown issues and in historic preservation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are two pix from the DDN article from yesterday.  Can you believe people...the people who matter, that is... are indifferent if this building gets torn down or not?

 

 

 

 

Good luck Jeffrey.  This is the big white elephant of Dayton is why no one wants to address it.  You say "weathering" has happened to the arcade.  Well that might be true of the main section of the building.  I assure there's more than weathering in all the other buildings that are attached.  I remember watching stormwater pour into the back upstairs windows a few years ago behind the main facade during storms.  I'm sure that hasn't been fixed.  Thats a lot of water in there plus with the freezing and thawing action, it can't be too pretty.  The weird narrow building also has several busted out windows.  I'm guessing thats relatively typical in all the buildings off of the arcade.

 

Reading about how this complex is intermingled with other buildings its difficult to figure out how to knock down all of the vacant buildings without affecting the arcade's structural integrity. 

 

To me the best way to approach this whole thing is to find good engineers and architects and start getting rid of the vacant buildings.  Think of it as a doctor treating cancerous goiter.  You don't let it sit and fester. The main idea should be to save the great hall and rotunda.  The most important thing is someone needs to come up with a great re-use plan for this.  Something that would be worthy of spending the millions to knock down lots of buildings.  This is probably a 7-10 year project.

 

Even if one side of the rotunda were exposed I think would be a major advance.  This thing has sat vacant so long, it would be a welcome improvement and may buy time and interested parties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From upthread, it appears that partial demolition was one of the recommendations.  And the 1960s RKTL plan pretty much recommended keeping the rotunda, and maybe even the arcade part, but incorporated into a brand new building (they were recommending an Toronto Eaton Centre type of shopping mall/office thing).

 

From what I hear, all the buildings except the Commercial Building is on the National Register, so that could be an issue. 

 

I can see tearing down the Ludlow Street building and replacing it with a garage, to make the rest of the complex workable.  That building is the one that had all office space. 

 

The water damage + freeze/thaw is making me thing the renovation pricetag now is going to be higher than the estimates from the Danis era.  In some respects this is a fragile building.

 

####

 

Realistically speaking this Freinds to Save the Arcade fundraising to pay of the tax lien is not going to happen unless some big money comes through or there is a groundswell in community support to do this.   Even so, it just buys another year.

 

If this building is sold at Sheriffs Sale to an outside entity there could be a real risk of the building getting stripped for salvage and a demolition occuring.  Leon Bey suspects the city will sign off on the demo permit if it comes to that.   The problem is the building has no advocate in any of the circles of power or interest, aside from this motley Friends to Save the Arcade group (headed up by retired librarians, for crissakes!) and lone nuts like myself.

 

I recall there used to be this movement called "advocacy planning" from back in the late 60s and 70s, where people advocated planning strategy outside of official channels on behalf of weak and ignored communities,  and I wonder if thats whats needed here.  This FSA group is working on fundraising, but reaistically I think they should go beyond that and continue to advocate saving the buildings, even if their fundraising effort fails.

 

 

 

 

I don't think there's anyone with that kind of developer money and developer vision in Dayton to put anything together.  I agree that the best plan would be something of a renewed mall just with modern facilities all around it.  The next thing could be then to get creative architectural submissions for this idea(ala Ingenuity Festival in Cleveland) and get them pitched to developers in Cinci and Columbus as a possible downtown showcase mall.  There would likely have to be a lot of City, County, and State help in getting this going to make it profitable.  There's lots of cities that have sweet downtown malls, just not Dayton right now. 

 

Other stakeholders should be the Convention Center, CoC, and the Port Authority.

The CoC is pretty weak here.  I am thinking something like the the Dayton Development Coaltion, who should put reviving downtown as one of their prioritys. 

 

The Port Authority for sure, and the Downtown Dayton Partnership.  I keep on thinking County goverment too.

Locally the feeling is that retail/mall is "out", and thats probably correct given whats happened to downtown malls elsewhere.  Some retail maybe, but not the driver for the project.

 

The question is "who will be the convener?" to push for a plan.  For Riverscape it was Fiver Rivers Metroparks and the Reyondds and Reynolds CEO Holmes. 

 

In other citys it was the mayor.

 

  It does not seem this is a priority for Rhine McLin, sorry to say, though one can see based on the upthread posts, that she was interested in this at one time and did have an outside study done.