Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin consumes $55 Billion in taxpayers' money to deliver the F-22 air superiority fighter that was conceived during the Cold War and finally delivered in 2005. Defense Secretary Robert Gates told Congress "the F-22 still has not performed a single mission in Iraq or Afghanistan".

 

Don't American automakers get gov't contracts for army vehicles? Most police cruisers are American cars, though I see some Corolla cruisers now. Still, I think US has done enough to favor the auto industry. Enough that these guys had a feeling they would be bailed out.

"Unprecedented concessions"? Can you elaborate?

 

Wages and benefits, for new workers at least, have been going down through many recent negotiating cycles.  That isn't how things worked in prior decades. 

 

I still don't see any stronger argument for bailing out banks than auto companies.  Either come-what-may capitalism makes sense or it doesn't... for it to apply differently to different sectors (and frankly regions) really sounds scamalicious.

Most police cruisers are American cars, though I see some Corolla cruisers now

^^ and Priuses (Prii?) too:

 

http://www.universities-weblog.com/50226711/800px-Toyota_Prius-Hybrid_Cop_car-NIU_police.jpg

 

Hybrid vehicles serve as workhorse for NIU police

Contact: Joe King,

NIU Office of Public Affairs

(815) 753-4299

 

September 5, 2006

 

DeKalb, Ill. — Two years ago, when they started up their patrol cars each morning, officers of the Northern Illinois University Department of Public Safety were pioneers – one of the first police forces in the nation to begin experimenting with hybrid Toyota Prius vehicles as patrol cars.

 

Today the cars have ceased being a novelty, and the experiment is long over. The Prius has become the vehicle of choice for the department, making up 80 percent of its fleet with the rest to be replaced by hybrids as budgets allow.

 

“From the very start, these cars have done everything that we have asked of them, everything that we have needed. They have proven themselves the perfect tool for the job,” says NIU Police Chief Don Grady, who leads a 45-person force charged with patrolling what is essentially a small city of about 30,000 people spread over 1.2 miles...

 

http://www.niu.edu/PubAffairs/RELEASES/2006/sept/hybrids06.shtml

And who could blame them? When you think about how much police have to drive around patrolling and responding to calls, they need something that gets good gas milage at taxpayer expense. American cars fail in that department. Chrysler is notoriously bad in terms of gas milage.

"I am not yet convinced that we must act so rashly," he said. "The American public demands that we get this right."

(Unlike the wholly mismanaged bailout plan for the financial industry.)

 

More trouble for auto bailout

The top Republican on the House Financial Services Committee said he's opposed to a $25 billion loan package for the Big Three.

By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney, November 19, 2008

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Auto industry executives were back on Capitol Hill Wednesday morning to ask for a federal bailout but they once again faced an uphill battle in winning the necessary support from Congress.

 

Before the CEOs of General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC even started their comments before the House Financial Services Committee, they faced criticism from the committee's ranking Republican, Spencer Bachus of Alabama.

 

"My constituents do not understand why their tax dollars should go to support what they consider less efficient businesses," said Bachus, adding that most of his constituents earn less money than the autoworkers whose jobs would be saved...

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/19/news/companies/auto_hearing/index.htm

Has the federal government considered imposing regulations on predatory unions? That should be a bipartisan issue. Whether you're a middle class Republican or Democrat, you're probably not getting the salary and benefits of a union worker.

FWIW, the Neon was replaced by the Caliber not the Nitro - the Nitro was an attempt to . . . well it had no good reason to exist since the Durango was out there. Priuses are very rare, most are Fords or increasingly Chrysler (who dominated until their first bail out when they ditched their cop car lines for the K-car).

 

It is worth noting that the good Japanese are really only Toyota, Honda and to a lesser degree Mazda. Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Subaru make cars that are no more reliable and are often less reliable than Ford and some GMs - Chrysler is mostly crap. They also aren't all that special. Of the Euro's VW can't get its act together and the rest don't really make for the mass market and when there were more they all failed to compete (Renault, Sterling (Br. Leyland), Fiat - though the new 500 rocks, Peuguot, Jaguar - pre-Ford, MG, et al.).

Republican senator on U.S. auto makers: "I don't think they have immediate plans to change their model, which is a model of failure."

I really wonder what the future holds for unions.

 

In the private sector, not much.  As of 2007 the private sector workforce was only 7%-8% unionizied.  So, if over 90% of the workforce is non-union, they are not relevant to the worklife of most folks.

 

Now, for some industries and states unions (avation...both flying 'em and building 'em...is a good example) are more signifigant, but nationally they are not.

 

From a global perspective, they really need to even the playing field. Other countries and companies have them, but they operate differently. The idea of unions in this industry seems cultural universal. I think eventually they will move towards contract stipulations that apply to union workers in the auto industry worldwide. That alone would provide unions more stability.

 

This was sort of the concept behind 1930s industrial unionism:  organized industry-wide, or at least the largest & most economically signifigant firms.  So those 1930s organizing drives were directed at multiple employers, not just one or two companies.    That was the strategy the UE used when organizing the electrical equipment/products industry  (GE, Westinghouse, Delco, Frigidaire, Maytag, and others) .

 

 

I worked at Kroger when I was 16 and it was unionized. I paid my union dues but I made minimum wage and my health benefits were worthless. I didn't need to use them and even older people working at Kroger probably made a low enough wage to get medicaid. Actually, in Hamilton County, I think you can pretty much get free healthcare if you make under 18k a year.

 

So since I only made minimum wage and paid union dues, I actually made LESS than minimum wage. It was bs. That union sucked.

^

heh, yeah, you have to wonder, in a situation like that, what is the point. 

 

 

^

heh, yeah, you have to wonder, in a situation like that, what is the point. 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  David are you have a C-Dawg-edisou moment?  ;D

 

Did anyone hold a gun to your head and say you had to apply, accept and report to work at a union store?

I was 16 - I had limited options. It was that or go back to the Jewish country club that put a ban on tipping caddys.

^

According to Martin Sheen, his days caddying at the Dayton Country Club turned him into a lefty.

 

#####

 

Horsey, from the Seattle PI (I think) :

 

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20081119/cartoon20081119.jpg

Good cartoon, but I actually agree with Mitt Romney & his managed bankruptcy concept:

 

Second, management as is must go. New faces should be recruited from unrelated industries — from companies widely respected for excellence in marketing, innovation, creativity and labor relations.

 

The new management must work with labor leaders to see that the enmity between labor and management comes to an end. This division is a holdover from the early years of the last century, when unions brought workers job security and better wages and benefits. But as Walter Reuther, the former head of the United Automobile Workers, said to my father, “Getting more and more pay for less and less work is a dead-end street.”

 

You don’t have to look far for industries with unions that went down that road. Companies in the 21st century cannot perpetuate the destructive labor relations of the 20th. This will mean a new direction for the U.A.W., profit sharing or stock grants to all employees and a change in Big Three management culture.

 

The need for collaboration will mean accepting sanity in salaries and perks. At American Motors, my dad cut his pay and that of his executive team, he bought stock in the company, and he went out to factories to talk to workers directly. Get rid of the planes, the executive dining rooms — all the symbols that breed resentment among the hundreds of thousands who will also be sacrificing to keep the companies afloat.

 

 

FWIW, the Neon was replaced by the Caliber not the Nitro - the Nitro was an attempt to . . . well it had no good reason to exist since the Durango was out there.

 

Crap, that's right. The Caliber is sort of an SUV -- tall, heavy and available with  4wd. It's certainly no Neon.

^

According to Martin Sheen, his days caddying at the Dayton Country Club turned him into a lefty.

 

#####

 

Horsey, from the Seattle PI (I think) :

 

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20081119/cartoon20081119.jpg

 

I'm not sure I would call a job that starts out at 32 dollars an hour with all of those benefits "middle class". When you consider how much debt college graduates have, it looks even worse.

not everyone has college debt.

It doesn't matter - my point is that they make more than a lot of college graduates but don't have the burden of college debt. It doesn't apply to everyone but it applies to people.

 

I love this woman towards the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prX_a6BVd7k&feature=related

It doesn't matter - my point is that they make more than a lot of college graduates but don't have the burden of college debt. It doesn't apply to everyone but it applies to people.

 

I love this woman towards the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prX_a6BVd7k&feature=related

 

What I mean is a lot of college graduates do not have college debt.

I don't care if people make more than college graduates, there are a lot of people with worthless degrees.  What I do care about, is people getting paid not to do any work.  But the way to take care of that is to not buy the product they make.

 

We have seen a lot of comparisons of salaries between US and foreign auto workers, but I've not seen a comparison of how many employees it takes to make a comparable car.  I would guess it is much higher for a US car.  I think I've seen the Malibu compared to an Accord.  I'd like to see the comparison of everything that has to do with the production of those 2 cars.

^"General Motors had four of the 10 most productive assembly plants: Oshawa No. 2 (15.68 HPV for Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick LaCrosse and Allure); Oshawa No. 1 (16.34 HPV for Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo); Fairfax, Kan, (17.89 HPV for Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Aura); and Lordstown, Ohio (19.17 HPV for Chevrolet Cobalt, Pontiac G5 and Pursuit)."

 

The numbers can be missleading since this deals with assembly only and not, for example; how many man hours it takes to build the engine or stamp the body. Toyota still leads in overall productivity but the margins are small and getting smaller.

 

"The difference between the most and least productive in terms of total (Assembly, Stamping and Powertrain) labor hours was 5.17 hours per vehicle (or about $300 per vehicle), down from 7.33 hours per vehicle in 2005, and less than one-third the 17.17 HPV gap in 1998."

 

The quotes are from the following:  http://www.reliableplant.com/article.asp?articleid=6572

Thanks!

^ :wave:

not everyone has college debt.

 

And assembly line work rarely requires a college education.

GM and the big 3 have been failed by college educated management or lack there of... they are failing as a percentage, no more than they have the last 4 years... and NOW because the economy has turned, THEY think that they deserve a bailout... please... you can't put a band aid on a cadaver.

 

It's time to go BK.... restructure and start over. Nobody is bailing out the thousands of small businesses around the country... just this white collar elite socialism that this country has developed... only the rich survive...

I have to say that if the big three go down. Most will lose their homes since im sure the big three will not offer anymore buyout to leave the company. Then again why should i help pay for them with severance pay. I don't get anything from this. I think it time for us all to sacrifice.

I don't care if people make more than college graduates, there are a lot of people with worthless degrees.

 

There is no such thing as a worthless degree.

You're right, I could have said it better.

Not related to the actual bailout but it keeps driving me nuts that the stock video footage for an assembly plant that is being used by CNN/HL appears to be from the Saturn plant in 1996.

 

Back on topic..

A friend of mine in DC texted me today and said he heard that some bailout package has actually been negotiated and agreed upon.  I asked him for more info but he hasn't gotten back to me.

 

EDIT: And I just found on reuters.....

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE4AJ71020081120

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Shares of General Motors (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Ford Motor Co (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) soared on Thursday after a Senate Democratic aide said senators had reached agreement on a bipartisan auto aid deal.

 

GM shares jumped more than 23 percent to $3.43 on the New York Stock Exchange, while shares of Ford climbed more than 34 percent to $1.69.

 

The big-three U.S. automakers, including Chrysler, are pressing for a $25 billion bailout from the government to avert possible bankruptcy.

 

(Reporting by Ellis Mnyandu; Editing by James Dalgleish)

 

 

 

USA Today has article about "Automakers can't afford to develop hybrids". If the bailout helps in that regard, it may get my vote.

Ford has two hybrids (Escape and Mariner) already and they are rolling out two more in 2010 (Fusion and Milan). GM has a Tahoo hybrid out there.

 

Way up, David that countryclub hasn't allowed caddies to be tipped since at least the early 90s when I caddied there. Hated it so much I became a lifeguard. Caddydogs were good though. Never did figure out how to play Tonk.

]

Way up, David that countryclub hasn't allowed caddies to be tipped since at least the early 90s when I caddied there. Hated it so much I became a lifeguard.

 

Yeah, you had to carry 2 bags for at least 27 holes to make a decent amount of money, and of course priority was always given to the kids dumb enough to stick around for several years. That's funny that you worked there too. I guess one good thing came out of it - I lost 15-20 pounds of weight that summer from the heat and drinking water constantly.

^^ Actually there are quite a few hybrids for the 09 model year out there; but there not all exactly competing for greenest car in the world honors. Cadillac Escalade = 20 mpg city, 21 mpg hwy. GM just won't let these beasts go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

Here's the list: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs.shtml

The payback periods for most two-mode hybrid models that GM produces (two-mode hybrids are not as efficient as the Toyota Prius or the new Honda Insight), because the powertrain is similar to what was in the original non-hybrid model, and the weight drags the entire vehicle down.

 

Put a true hybrid powertrain in a Chevrolet car, drop it to four-cyl., and see what it gets. Don't dump it in a Cadilliac Escalade, give it a large V-6 engine, and then boast about its "30% better" city fuel economy. It still sucks the gas and doesn't win over envrionmentalists.

I've worked in the retail side of the auto industry for 10 years...the big 3 have dug their own grave. The dealerships that closed this year were POORLY RUN DEALERSHIPS and through recent histoty, the poorly run manufacturers have closed also. Honda and Toyota have been retailing hybrids for 10 years now... why would we invest in poor R & D for the big 3 when it's already too late. Honda has been PRODUCING a HYDROGEN car for 8 years and President Dubya a few years back anounced that AMERICA would be producing the same in the next 20 years... whatever... let them go BK... restructure and start over... but DON'T bail out a broken cause

Someone on SSP brought up a good point. Would any of you buy a car from a manufacturer that just declared bankruptcy? What happens to the dealerships where people get those cars serviced? Even if it's not a big deal you have to consider general consumer panic that will drive a company into the ground in the same manner pulling deposits can ruin a bank regardless of its future prospects.

 

I think they're getting bailed out.

I heard on Channel 9 or 5 that the CEO of GM eventually admitted that they have a year's worth of cash on hand.  So the "we'll be bankrupt in 3 months" is a little bit of an exaggeration.

It's all about the critical mass appeal. If they could get Ford and Chrysler to play along, and somehow tie the fate of their companies to this economy and make a vein attempt to get a hold of some of the "bailout" money, they would have won. GMAC (GM's financial arm) is currently seeking for some of the "bailout" dollars, which would be used to retire many of the bad loans they have wrote out over the years.

 

Economy causing GM to collapse? It was the icing on the cake. This has been going on for years, and it's just now making headlines?

Someone on SSP brought up a good point. Would any of you buy a car from a manufacturer that just declared bankruptcy? 

 

That's been brought up many times in the congressional hearings about the automaker bailout. I take you do not watch C-Span or CNBC?

CSPAN ? ZzzZzzZzz

more like ZZZZSPAN

CSPAN ? ZzzZzzZzz

 

Yeah- thats right!  ZzzZzzZzz's  :angel:

...

Economy causing GM to collapse? It was the icing on the cake. This has been going on for years, and it's just now making headlines?

I have observed GM getting their productivity up to the level of the best producers in the world.  They have fuel efficient technology like active fuel management and two-mode hybrids (better than the competition). 

 

GM got the employees to assume future inflation of retiree medical benefits by funding a trust for those expenses.

 

What else do you want from them:  spin polyester seat fabric into gold?

^

According to Martin Sheen, his days caddying at the Dayton Country Club turned him into a lefty.

 

#####

 

Horsey, from the Seattle PI (I think) :

 

 

 

I'm not sure I would call a job that starts out at 32 dollars an hour with all of those benefits "middle class". When you consider how much debt college graduates have, it looks even worse.

 

Actually, new hires at GM start at $14/hr

^I think you're talking about temporary workers. They're the first to be hired and fired.

This is why bankruptcy (pre-done) is the best way forward. The whole people won't buy in bankruptcy doesn't really matter right now, since people aren't buying if they don't absolutely have to. I'd also rather them stronger heading into darker days rather than waiting six to twelve months and then have everything else feel even more crisis-y.

Some of these workers probably are temps, but there is now a two tier wage structure at UAW plants. These are not line jobs. Here's an excerpt from an article from 2007

 

"A two-tier wage system would allow GM to save money on jobs not directly related to building an automobile, such as housekeeping, security and janitorial work. Those jobs could command wages as low as $12 to $15 an hour. The new wage structure would apply to new hires, not current workers.

 

GM would spend roughly the same amount on non-line labor as if it hired non-union contract workers for the jobs.

 

The union, in turn, wouldn't lose those jobs to outsourcing and could still claim the workers among their rank and file."

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070926/AUTO01/709260398/1148

 

 

Hey guys, i'm not sure if my dad is ok w/this or not, but i thought i would share an email he wrote to a childhood friend of mine. Childhood friend is a teacher and wanted to know from dad what he thought about this whole GM thing.

 

Just a little background............my dad worked for Delphi Packard in Warren, Ohio for 35 years as an hourly employee. Packard was a division of GM until 1999 when they were spun off and became a division of Delphi Automotive. I myself was an employee there for almost eight years. I think you'll find that my dad is a very fair guy and maybe his email will help you guys understand things a little bit better.

 

Here it is:

 

Childhood friend:

"Cortlandgirl's dad, what is exactly the problem with GM and why have they been having

problems? When you get the time, please explain EXACTLY why they are hurting

as a company?"

 

Dad' response:

"There are a lot of reasons why this company is in trouble and most all of the stakeholders have some of the blame to share. That blame goes to labor, management, and government. This company got drunk on it's own success. In the end the "buck" stops at the CEO's desk.

 

Let me start with labor. I was a part of this group. Tom Peters, in his book called, "In Search of Excellence" once stated that any company that gets a union probably deserves it. For many years there was a confrontational approach to labor relations by BOTH sides. Much of this had to do with harassment of the workforce by management and the backlash from labor. The GM management model was based on that of the German Army, according auto analyst Maryann Keller. Believe me there were times where they really did act like a bunch of Nazis.

 

Labor got fat, dumb, and happy just like the company did on the success of GM. Unions, being the political entities that they are, are subject to the winds of internal politics. Example: Things are good - what have you done for me LATELY? What are you going to do for us if we elect you to a higher union office? So to fulfill their duties they would always try to negotiate better and better contracts. You may see some of the same in your union.

 

Some of the things negotiated actually benefited both sides. The general pay pattern was a 3% " annual improvement factor" raise. The normal rate of inflation is about 3% a year. This was to keep "real wages" about the same every year. On top of that came the COLA which had to do with the consumer price index. This was also to help cover the cost of inflation. BUT, it was what really escalated the cost to the company as far as wages were concerned.

 

Then there were the fringe benefits and holidays. All of this added to the cost of running the company. Here's the catch - the company could afford a lot of this when they had 50% of the car market in this country. At 20% of the market they can no longer afford such a contract. This UAW contract required very high sales volumes to make money. The UAW was too slow to recognize this fact.

 

In the IUE, our union leadership realized the need to give something back to the company. We started with this back in the 1980's with the "Progressive Hiring Plan". People were hired at 55% of normal wages and with fewer benefits. It took 10 years to reach parity.

 

Later on we gave them the "Competitive Hiring Plan" where, again people were hired at 55% and no benefits for the first 8 months. This is the plan Cortlandgirl was hired under. Parity was to be reached after 10 years. The idea was that as people retired new workers were to be CHIP employees and this would bring down labor costs. This was at Packard. The IUE also was more willing to have job combinations and be more flexible in operations. The last assembly line we had - there were 20 stations on the line. We had to know ALL of them plus all the off-line jobs.

 

Back to the UAW. Finally, in the last UAW contract (2007) the UAW agreed to a second tier of wages. The IUE had been at it since about 1982 and actually had 3 tiers. Actually, the UAW was quite upset with the IUE for this agreement and resisted it for years.

 

There's actually more to the situation than what I'm writing here. I don't want to take more of your time on this, especially, since this is not my doctoral dissertation. LOL!

 

Next is management. The 3 CEO's flying to Washington individually, on their private company jets is some indication of the arrogance of these people. Actually, all the people of this class are quite arrogant. All you have to do is look at AIG and the Wall St. investment bankers to see it. So auto industry executives aren't any different. From what I hear, Rick Wagoner took home about $15 million in compensation from a nearly bankrupt company last year. This is normal for a CEO's mentality and is not just specific to the auto industry.

 

GM's problems go back a long way. They have been in a constant state of denial for probably 40 years. They have engineered quality and safety out of their product to save a few pennies. One example is the THM 200 transmission. They used plastic parts instead of steel in a critical area. A lot of those transmissions failed in service. When you get a poor quality reputation - your finished! There have been other issues like fit & finish, bad intake manifolds, and others. Quality and cost engineered out. In the end it will kill your business. Personally, I've been lucky - not a lot of problems. When I did have a problem GM took care of it. I've owned nothing but GM cars since 1972. GM was penny wise and pound foolish.

 

At one time Ross Perot was on the Board of Directors. The rest of the board and CEO, Roger B. Smith, didn't like him so they bought him out for $750 million. Anyone with a dissenting opinion is labeled as a "non-team player". If I tell you not to get too close to the edge of a cliff - I'm not your enemy, I'm your friend. GM management didn't look at things this way. People were promoted on who they played golf with rather than job performance.

 

Then you have ugly, unattractrive designs like the Pontiac Aztek. Engineering also took too long to bring new products to market. GM is very top-heavy in management and is very bureaucratic. I remember when the GM-10 project started. That was GM's mid-sized cars like Pontiac Grand Prix. For the first year and a half to two years they were building the 2 door version only. I found out that 70% of the car market is for 4 door cars. So why would you not be building 4 door cars? Reason - engineering was behind schedule. (The way this affected Packard was that we had bought all new machinery for this at Ridge Road in Vienna. It was the world's most modern cut lead plant. We were not able to utilize this machinery to it's potential  because we only were using 30% of capacity. You can't make money doing that). BTW, these machines cost a million dollars each and we had 50 or more of them I think. So we probably had $35 million worth of new machinery sitting idle and workers laid off collecting unemployment and SUB. That was back in 1987-88.

 

I remember, I think back in 1982 things were bad in the industry and the unions took concessions to help the company. The very next day after the contract was signed the executive bonuses were announced. That really ticked a lot of people off. Executives seem to have the idea that when a company is in financial trouble, it's only from middle management on down. It's not supposed to affect upper management. That's their mentality. They think life should go on as normal for them.

 

In 1980 we started building engine control harnesses. This is when computers first appeared on board to control and monitor engine function. This was when the Cortland plant was first started. The first two assembly lines were set up at Thomas Rd. in Warren since the Cortland building wasn't quite ready to be occupied. Every wiring harness has splices in it. Some circuits are tied into several functions and sometimes several wires need to be spliced together to reach those points. Wire is spliced together in a splice press where a clip is pressed on the wire to hold it together. The wire is then dipped in flux, then in a solder pot, then splice tape is applied to insulate the splice. Management tried to use oil as a flux. This didn't work - the solder would NOT take to the splice. We told management they needed to use flux. They insisted that THIS solder would work with oil. We pretty much SAT for two weeks until they decided to go back to flux. This is when we were actually able to start running the lines. Sometimes these people didn't seem to have much in the way of common sense. We did have some off line work to do but, there wasn't enough of it to keep us busy.

 

Again, there are other things I won't go into right now.

 

Government - They put a lot of regulation for safety and pollution control on the industry. Like most industries they resist any kind of regulation. Anyway these regulations were costly and required a lot of internal engineering to comply with it.

 

Then you have little or no enforcement of trade laws. I the early years Japan, in particular had many predatory trade practices. The auto industry is cyclical. Sometime you work overtime - sometimes your laid off. The Japanese government subsidized the Japanese automakers and kept the Japanese car market closed to US producers.

 

This also happened in other industries. Here's an example - a US manufacturer of snow skis wanted to export their product to Japan. Japan didn't put up conventional barriers like tariffs, they just said US skis don't work on Japanese snow. They pulled this kind of thing over and over again.

 

Back to cars. Since our market was very open to Japanese made cars they never had to lay people off. The workers had "lifetime jobs".  The reason why was that when thing were slow in Japan they just shipped the excess production to the US, subsidized by the Japanese government. So we were the "safety valve" for excess Japanese production. Because of this, some analysts said all the US car companies would be out of business by the year 2000.

 

To Ronald Reagan's credit, he stepped in and told Japan that we would place import restrictions on Japanese cars if they didn't stop doing business the way they were doing it. So that's the reason that they built their "transplant" operations here. The didn't do it because they're a bunch of nice guys - they were forced into it by Reagan.

 

Also, realize that when they did move here they whipsawed many communities and states to get the best deal. They got all kinds of tax abatements and perks to locate where they did. US producers then had to compete with this plus, they had no retirees (legacy costs), a younger workforce, and other advantages. They also located in "Right to Work" states. This is a misnomer. What it really is, is a "Right to work for Less". They pay pretty close to UAW wages to keep the union out. They also treat their people pretty well from what I hear. Makes you wonder if that would continue if the UAW was broken.

 

Now considering that our market is open, others are closed (sometimes by underhanded means), the baggage that the Big 3 carry from the past, and their slow reaction to market changes, we find ourselves in the present mess. I think we HAVE TO COMPETE with the transplants. So our business model HAS TO CHANGE with that in mind.

 

I think the Big 3 have changed and the change isn't over. The 2007 contract had major concessions in it. They have some great cars out that actually are better rated than Toyota. They just need to get more of them into the pipeline. GM has 30 models that get 30 miles to the gallon or more.

 

If the crooks on Wall St. hadn't torpedoed the economy, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. I think the domestics car companies could have gotten through without the government loans. As one article mentioned, GM will have lower production costs than Toyota by 2010. That's probably the reason that UAW President, Ron Gettlefinger has said that the UAW won't take any more concessions. Although, for the sake of PR they may have to. The 2007 contract pretty much gets them to where they need to be competitively.

 

There has been a lot of misinformation put out by the press and others concerning the Big 3. Much of that information is out-dated. There is also a strong bias in the public against them, and some of that  has been earned. Generally, people hate the Big 3 and the UAW.

 

Some of the dealerships have also mistreated customers and this is a reflection on the car company.

 

Of the CEO's - Mulally of Ford has only been there two years as has the CEO of Chrysler. Mulally is paid $38 million. That's what he was paid at Boeing.  I don't know what the guy from Chrysler gets. I do know he got $200 million when he left Home Depot. Rick Wagoner was paid $1 for the year 2006 if I remember right. He got $15 million in 2007. Wagoner has been at GM for 30 years or more and is probably to blame for making some of the stupid decisions made over the years at GM. He did take responsibility for the Pontiac Aztek debacle.

 

There is a lot more that could be discussed and I think that would be better done verbally.  Hope this helps your understanding. There is much more.

 

Cortlandgirl's dad"