>The Japanese government subsidized the Japanese automakers and kept the Japanese car market closed to US producers.

 

The business culture in Japan is fundamentally different than here since the Japanese government assembled big companies from disparate owners (for example, all the shipping companies based in Tokyo bay were combined into one company) starting in the 1870's.  This is how the monsterously big Japanese companies like Mitsubishi, Toyota, Sony, etc., got their start.  The Japanese government did this to accelerate its westernization campaign in the late 1800's. 

 

 

>They pay pretty close to UAW wages to keep the union out. They also treat their people pretty well from what I hear. Makes you wonder if that would continue if the UAW was broken.

 

The Honda plant in Sydney apparently does not hire almost any true full-time employees.  Specifically most people are hired for 3 years, then they're gone except for the small percentage who are invited into management.  They're able to avoid paying retirement benefits and give raises to floor workers whose experience has no real value since people can be trained in their job in a week or less.  I've worked those kinds of jobs where you know just about everything there is to know in a week, the difference is I got paid a buck or two over minimum wage because I wasn't making cars.  Apparently, because you're making cars, you deserve a fabulous middle-class wage. 

 

 

 

 

Apparently, because you're making cars, you deserve a fabulous middle-class wage.

 

Or at least a living wage .

 

 

Cortlandgirl,

Thanks for the perspective. It pretty much is spot on in my perspective after interning or working for the following GM Lordstowm, Delphi Packard and as a supplier rep at Ford Lorain before changing industries. I think your dad's point that the heads of the big three are no different than AIG or Lehman or NCB, is spot on too.

 

Excellent post.. I will be forwarding it around...

 

 

Thanks for the feedback CBC. Everyone is to blame for this mess, not just the UAW, not just management, not just the financial crisis.

Struggling Germain Motor Co. to cut jobs

Sales of auto dealer's domestic brands plunge

Tuesday,  November 25, 2008 - 6:14 AM

By Dan Gearino

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Germain Motor Co. is laying off an unspecified number of workers as new-car dealers struggle through an economic downturn.  "Due to current economic conditions and the accompanying steep decline in our business and profits, it has become necessary for Germain Motor Co. to take significant cost-cutting measures," said a letter to employees obtained by The Dispatch.

 

Germain is one of the largest dealer groups in central Ohio, with nine dealerships.  The company also has dealerships in Arizona, Arkansas and Florida. 

 

Central Ohio new-car sales are down by 10 percent this year compared with the same period last year. Germain's largest dealership by volume, Germain Toyota, is down only by 5 percent, according to Autoview Online, a service that tracks auto sales.  Some of the company's domestic brands are doing much worse. Germain Chevrolet is down 40 percent, Germain Cadillac at Easton is down 40 percent, and Germain Cadillac in Dublin is down 51 percent.

 

Germain invested heavily in luxury brands two years ago when it opened an $18 million complex at Easton that included a corporate headquarters and lavish showrooms for Mercedes-Benz and Cadillac.

 

More at

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/11/25/germain_cuts.ART_ART_11-25-08_C10_PPC0ANH.html?sid=101

It isn't just U.S. brand auto dealers biting the dust.

 

Mazda Direct will close doors on Sunday

Saturday,  November 29, 2008 2:58 AM

By Dan Gearino

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Mazda Direct is the latest casualty of the sales slump among new-car dealers.  The dealership at 4040 Appian Way on the Northeast Side will close Sunday.  An employee confirmed the closing date and said the sister dealership next door, Toyota Direct, will stay open.  No one with the parent company, Performance Automotive Network of Fairfield, was available to comment.

 

Mazda Direct had sold 217 new vehicles this year through October, down 24 percent from the same period last year, according to Autoview Online, a service that tracks auto sales.  New-car sales are down 15 percent nationwide and 10 percent in central Ohio as dealers and customers struggle through the economic downturn.  Dealers are particularly hurt by the tight credit market, which stops some customers from getting loan approvals.

 

Mazda Direct will be the sixth new-car dealer in central Ohio to call it quits this year.  The others are Bobb Chevrolet, which still has a used-car store; Graham Ford; and Ron Rush Lincoln Mercury, all in Columbus, and Roby Mitsubishi and Roby Suzuki in Dublin.

 

More at 

http://dispatch.com/live/content/index.html

Had my car worked on there in late summer. It was really dead, including the service area. It had a tiny showroom and it is pretty hidden. I'm guessing that the investment needed to drive traffic just wasn't worth it.

It seems to me that the dealerships have had problems for the past few years not just the past 3 months. I guess they know things aren't going to get better and hang in there.

the great entrepreneur Henry Ford said on February 11, 1934: "Let them fail; let everybody fail! I made my fortune when I had nothing to start with, by myself and my own ideas. Let other people do the same thing. If I lose everything in the collapse of our financial structure, I will start in at the beginning and build it up again."

 

via http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024212.html

ELLO!  I agree with Henry.  Let them fail!

December 3, 2008

Even in Michigan, Not Everyone Wants a Lifeline

The New York Times

By MONICA DAVEY and SUSAN SAULNY

 

KALAMAZOO, Mich. — Wander Michigan’s cities and towns, and many residents offer the same message about the prospect of a $34 billion bailout of America’s automakers: Please provide the help, not just for the sake of the automobile industry and its workers but for all the other people whose jobs are so intricately braided into the state’s autocentric economy.

 

But the quiet truth in Michigan, home of the Big Three manufacturers, is that the state is not of one voice on the matter.  Other opinions are alive, and they can be just as passionate in opposition to a rescue.  This, even though neighbors or friends or parents may have once depended on the industry.  This, though speaking for the bailout here is something akin to embracing the Great Lakes or apple pie, as evinced by the letter of support for it signed last month by all of Michigan’s Congressional delegation, Democrats and Republicans alike.

 

There have been no statewide opinion polls published on the bailout request, though with Michigan’s economy so tied to the industry, those for it undoubtedly outweigh those against, political, economic and polling experts suggest.  Still, “there are plenty of people who are rolling their eyes,” said Bill Ballenger, editor of the closely followed newsletter Inside Michigan Politics.

 

Full article at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/03/us/03michigan.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

Why aren't the UAW heads going down to Congress as well?  They certainly have as much to lose as the Big Three.  The CEOs accepting a $1 salary means nothing if there are STILL those ridiculous $2000-$3000 legacy costs per vehicle, and the UAW has to take responsibility and make some substantial concessions.  I think the most maddening thing about this entire situation is if I, who cannot easily afford my own health insurance, am footing the bill for a RETIREE'S insurance if those policies do not change and the bailout goes through.  To pay for someone else's insurance (someone who isn't even producing anything) and not (easily) afford my own - that just boils my blood as much as anything else in this whole mess.

 

 

The President of the UAW was literally sitting beside the Big-3 CEO's at a recent Congressional hearing.  In fact, the UAW is pro-actively discussing whether they can make further concessions to help the auto-makers and preserve jobs.

 

To that end....a good column by the Washington Post's E.J. Dionne:

 

E.J. Dionne commentary:

Auto bailout hinges on industry reforms

Wednesday,  December 3, 2008 3:22 AM

By E.J. Dionne

 

There is a paradox at the heart of the proposed bailout of the auto industry.  The rescue would have no chance of passing without the muscle of the Big Three's unionized work force.  Yet you can't turn around without hearing someone trash autoworkers for the terrible crime of trying to earn a decent living.

 

The chief executives of Ford, General Motors and Chrysler, having blown their earlier plea for help last month, face their big test Thursday and Friday, when they defend their revival plans.  Democratic congressional leaders desperately want to help an industry that accounts, directly or indirectly, for 3 million to 5 million jobs.  But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were astonished at how unprepared these corporate titans proved to be the last time they came to Washington.

 

By flying into town on private jets and offering few answers to their congressional interlocutors, the big shots suggested they didn't understand that people begging for taxpayer money owe a certain deference to their potential benefactors.  They must have thought they were running Citigroup.

 

Full article at

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2008/12/03/dion03.ART_ART_12-03-08_A13_N1C3V0E.html?sid=101

UAW willing to change contracts

By Kimberly S. Johnson, AP, December 3, 2008

 

DETROIT — The United Auto Workers union said Wednesday it is willing to change its contracts with U.S. auto makers and accept delays in payments of billions of dollars to a union-run health care trust to do its part to help the struggling companies secure $34-billion (U.S.) in government loans.

 

UAW president Ron Gettelfinger said the union will suspend the jobs bank, in which laid-off workers are paid up to 95 per cent of their salaries while not working, but he did not give specifics or a timetable of when the program will end.

 

Members of Congress criticized the auto makers last month for paying workers who are not on the job.  About 3,500 auto workers across the three companies are currently in jobs bank programs.  One local union member who was in the meeting said the changes to the jobs bank would nearly eliminate the program.

... I think the most maddening thing about this entire situation is if I, who cannot easily afford my own health insurance, am footing the bill for a RETIREE'S insurance if those policies do not change and the bailout goes through. To pay for someone else's insurance (someone who isn't even producing anything) and not (easily) afford my own - that just boils my blood as much as anything else in this whole mess.

Well, that's a thinker, T!

Why aren't the UAW heads going down to Congress as well? They certainly have as much to lose as the Big Three. The CEOs accepting a $1 salary means nothing if there are STILL those ridiculous $2000-$3000 legacy costs per vehicle, and the UAW has to take responsibility and make some substantial concessions. I think the most maddening thing about this entire situation is if I, who cannot easily afford my own health insurance, am footing the bill for a RETIREE'S insurance if those policies do not change and the bailout goes through. To pay for someone else's insurance (someone who isn't even producing anything) and not (easily) afford my own - that just boils my blood as much as anything else in this whole mess.

 

And how is that different from any of us having to pay for government programs for people who get any kind of assistance? 

The jobs bank isn't even used by that many workers - it's the legacy costs that's the real concern

Why aren't the UAW heads going down to Congress as well?  They certainly have as much to lose as the Big Three.  The CEOs accepting a $1 salary means nothing if there are STILL those ridiculous $2000-$3000 legacy costs per vehicle, and the UAW has to take responsibility and make some substantial concessions.  I think the most maddening thing about this entire situation is if I, who cannot easily afford my own health insurance, am footing the bill for a RETIREE'S insurance if those policies do not change and the bailout goes through.  To pay for someone else's insurance (someone who isn't even producing anything) and not (easily) afford my own - that just boils my blood as much as anything else in this whole mess.

 

And how is that different from any of us having to pay for government programs for people who get any kind of assistance? 

 

When my stepdad retired from P&G he had over a million dollars in stock (mostly P&G) in an FMA account and he didn't even make much money at the company. I don't know what all benefits they get at GM but it seems that if people were reponsible and invested a portion of their extremely high salary (by my definition) they would be extremely wealthy by the time they retire. How do these people make so much money hourly, have great job security and benefits, yet struggle when they're a senior?

David, I'm not sure that they are struggling.  P&G has a profit sharing plan, each year they invest a % of your salary into P&G stock.  In your fathers case (and mine), it would have maxed out at ~22-23% of his annual salary when he retired.  For all new hires since 2000 or so, it maxes out at 15%.  When one retires, the profit sharing is theirs, to do with as they will.  The P&G retiree medical benefits permit the retiree to buy health insurance at P&G rates, and they pay some portion of it.

 

Anyway, GM has a pension plan.  Not really sure how it works, but my in-laws get a monthly pension check of some fair amount.  They also got free medical until recently.  Medical was cancelled, and they got an extra $400 per month in the pension payment to assist with medical.

 

I don't know what happens to the GM pension plan payments if they should go under.

Why aren't the UAW heads going down to Congress as well?  They certainly have as much to lose as the Big Three.  The CEOs accepting a $1 salary means nothing if there are STILL those ridiculous $2000-$3000 legacy costs per vehicle, and the UAW has to take responsibility and make some substantial concessions.  I think the most maddening thing about this entire situation is if I, who cannot easily afford my own health insurance, am footing the bill for a RETIREE'S insurance if those policies do not change and the bailout goes through.  To pay for someone else's insurance (someone who isn't even producing anything) and not (easily) afford my own - that just boils my blood as much as anything else in this whole mess.

 

 

"And how is that different from any of us having to pay for government programs for people who get any kind of assistance?" 

 

The difference is those government programs are public and the Big 3 are private companies, yet now (presuming the bailout goes through and the UAW doesn't make certain concessions) I'm going to be paying a retiree of a private juggernaut corporation something that I can barely afford for myself. 

 

It makes no sense at all - why are these retirees' struggles any more important than my own????

The CEOs accepting a $1 salary means nothing if there are STILL those ridiculous $2000-$3000 legacy costs per vehicle

 

Yeah ridiculous people counting on ridiculous contracted things like healthcare.

 

The union has already stepped in.

 

And by the way it's management's fault that the Big 3 are where they are.  In recent years who has been the one to have to make concessions?  Spare me the one dollar bullsh it. The CEO's have made millions while middle class workers have made concessions.

 

And when the Big 3 CEO's wasted resources to fight more fuel efficient cars.  Who suffered?  The union workers.

 

And when the executives, insurance industry and Republicans crushed any healthcare reform that actually would have helped both business and employees, they guaranteed higher costs for the company.

 

The UAW has only said it would "suspend" the jobs bank, which implies they want it back at some point.  They are clearly in serious denial.  The golden goose is dying.

 

David, I'm not sure that they are struggling. P&G has a profit sharing plan, each year they invest a % of your salary into P&G stock. In your fathers case (and mine), it would have maxed out at ~22-23% of his annual salary when he retired. For all new hires since 2000 or so, it maxes out at 15%. When one retires, the profit sharing is theirs, to do with as they will. The P&G retiree medical benefits permit the retiree to buy health insurance at P&G rates, and they pay some portion of it.

 

Anyway, GM has a pension plan. Not really sure how it works, but my in-laws get a monthly pension check of some fair amount. They also got free medical until recently. Medical was cancelled, and they got an extra $400 per month in the pension payment to assist with medical.

 

I don't know what happens to the GM pension plan payments if they should go under.

 

Would you say the P&G model is a lot more effective?

The workers are not to blame for this.  I think the unions are wrong about some things too, but all these ridiculous product decisions were made by the deciders.  They aren't as much smarter than the rest of us as their salaries would indicate.  If more people had unionized instead of less recently, there might be a lot more money flowing in the economy now, instead of tied up in disappearing investments.

A big reminder that it people weren't so obese today, healthcare coverage would be much cheaper and these companies would be in much better shape (and our economy as a whole).

I know--institute a "windfall profits tax" on the oil companies to create a fund to aid the automakers.  The oil companies would not be where they are today without the huge number of automobiles that have been put into service.

A big reminder that it people weren't so obese today, healthcare coverage would be much cheaper and these companies would be in much better shape (and our economy as a whole).

 

A big reminder that if people wouldn't get in their cars to drive from their homes to the nearest drive through for dinner, we wouldn't have such obese people.  One more checkmark to the list of ways that the Big 3 brought this upon themselves.

I don't think it's as simple as that. People who drive are probably more likely to walk/jog recreationally, or get a gym membership, compared to people who walked more out of necessity before cars. I bet that before cars were affordable, people felt less inclined to go out unless they had to.

 

I think Michael Moore is the absolute worst person to represent Universal Healthcare - the man could stand to loose a few hundred pounds. His own dieting habits/ lack of exercise will be a terrible burden on society if we implemented a free healthcare system.

 

I don't think the unions are at fault for the CURRENT situation. GM obviously wouldn't be in the position they're in right now if the credit market was in better shape. The inefficiency of unionization is more of a latent issue that many people have been looking for an excuse to resurrect.

I don't think it's as simple as that. People who drive are probably more likely to walk/jog recreationally, or get a gym membership, compared to people who walked more out of necessity before cars. I bet that before cars were affordable, people felt less inclined to go out unless they had to.

 

That reminds me of the argument that suburbs are more environmentally friendly than cities because they incorporate more green features like retention ponds. 

People feel more inclined to work out at a gym because they feel the amount of exercise they're getting on a daily basis is inadequate.  But if you have to walk everywhere everyday, like I do, you don't need the EXTRA exercise. 

Why Detroit, why?

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,463265,00.html

 

Why didn't they just sacrifice one of those suv's??

 

Would you say the P&G model is a lot more effective?

 

David, I don't know if it is more effective, but P&G has a long history of treating their people well.  We did have a union at the Ivorydale plant, but it was a "company run" union!  Maybe if Henry Ford hadn't been such a bastard, there may not have been the need for the UAW.

 

I guess if I was a GM employee, and they had a profit sharing plan, I wouldn't be in very good shape right now as I near retirement.

 

In a side note, I just did a little exercise with my SS as if SS was privatized.  I took the amount I paid each year, and invested it in P&G stock at the January price for each year.  Remember, there were 2 periods in the past 30 years that P&G stock dropped in half.  My contributions alone amounted to almost $800,000.00 in P&G stock at todays price of ~$60 per share.  Adding in the company contribution would now give me over $1.5million towards my retirement!  By the time I will be 65, that will probably double.  Beats the $2000 per month SS plans on giving me when I reach 65. 

 

Again, if that was all invested in GM stock, I would be singing a different song! 

What makes a car American?

By Ashley Fantz

CNN

 

(CNN) -- With the top U.S. automakers in economic survival mode, the mantra, "Buy American," is a frequent cry among those trying to save jobs at home.  But buying a car to benefit the U.S. economy has become an ambiguous, complicated challenge.  "How you define an American car is one of the great conundrums of this world," said Dutch Mandel, the editor and associate publisher of AutoWeek.  Fewer than half of the parts on some Big Three vehicles are made in the U.S.

 

Looking at a Ford Fusion?  It is assembled in Mexico.  The Chrysler 300C is assembled in Canada, but its transmission is from Indiana; the brand's V-8 engine is made in Mexico.  Engines in the Chevrolet Equinox sport utility vehicle are from China.

 

On the other hand, Toyota's Camry is comprised 80 percent of parts made in the United States, and 56 percent of Toyota's vehicles sold in the U.S. also are made here, according to Toyota spokeswoman Sona Iliffe-Moon.  The Toyota Sienna and Tundra also have 80 percent of their parts manufactured in the U.S.

 

"When you have manufacturers from around the world building cars in the U.S. with 85 percent domestic content -- engine, transmission, assembly -- is that an American car?" Mandel asked.  Or, he asks, is it considered foreign because the profits go back to a foreign country?

 

Find this article at:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/american.cars/index.html 

 

This outdated MOO is why I think one company should fail and the profitable parts of that company should be absorbed by any car manufacturer left standing.

 

the "big three" sent jobs across the globe while leaving the back door open for the world to set up shop here.  Now they have to suffer.  I, for one, am glad the bill failed and do not support any support for the industry.

A Savannah, Georgia, Ford dealer sold 15 cars last weekend after he ran a radio ad blaming Japan for Detroit's financial funk.

 

While 15 was substantially better than weekends before the ad, dealer O.C. Welch said, it was still about half of the business he did a year ago.

 

"All you people that buy all your Toyotas and send that money to Japan, you know, when you don't have a job to make your Toyota car payment, don't come crying to me," Welch says in the ad. "All those cars are rice ready. They're not road ready."

 

This guy is a total dick.

This bit about the non-US parts hasn't been news for years.  It doesn't change the fact that the big 3 still have substantial operations in northern US cities while the foreign makes don't and won't.  We want desparately for compaines to invest in this region.  Here are 3 who have.  They've globalized like everyone else, but unlike many homegrown companies they still have a major presence in the great lakes area.  Things are a lot more complex than that "rice ready" idiot makes them out to be, but elementally the big 3 are still the core of US industry.  If you think that can be tossed aside, you're nuts. 

 

After reading months of debate on the subject, I'm still amazed at the sentiment that the auto industry's collapse should be treated lightly or even welcomed.  Every single urban development we hope for is tied to the viability of the local economy, which for the forseeable future is tied to to auto industry.  If that rug gets pulled out, it will be some time before we reach any kind of tipping point in the other direction. 

 

Face it, we don't have much going for us in terms of climate or terrain... cities here need a reason for being, and heavy industry is a good fit.  It's the only one that's worked here so far.  Without it this whole region is no different from the rural south, except that it's colder.  We aren't going to replace automotive jobs by stealing companies from San Francisco or Texas.  It's time to start taking more pride in what we do have, turning it around, and building off of that.

Pay close attention to the way they crafted these statements.

 

The Center for Automotive Research said the Big Three had 24,000 engineers on U.S. payrolls in 2007. The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association said its member companies had 3,500 U.S. research and development employees in 2007.

 

Level Field found that every 1,000 vehicles sold by Detroit's Big Three in the U.S. support more than twice as many jobs as 1,000 vehicles sold by foreign nameplates.

 

 

This bit about the non-US parts hasn't been news for years. It doesn't change the fact that the big 3 still have substantial operations in northern US cities while the foreign makes don't and won't. We want desparately for compaines to invest in this region. Here are 3 who have. They've globalized like everyone else, but unlike many homegrown companies they still have a major presence in the great lakes area. Things are a lot more complex than that "rice ready" idiot makes them out to be, but elementally the big 3 are still the core of US industry. If you think that can be tossed aside, you're nuts.

 

After reading months of debate on the subject, I'm still amazed at the sentiment that the auto industry's collapse should be treated lightly or even welcomed. Every single urban development we hope for is tied to the viability of the local economy, which for the forseeable future is tied to to auto industry. If that rug gets pulled out, it will be some time before we reach any kind of tipping point in the other direction.

 

Face it, we don't have much going for us in terms of climate or terrain... cities here need a reason for being, and heavy industry is a good fit. It's the only one that's worked here so far. Without it this whole region is no different from the rural south, except that it's colder. We aren't going to replace automotive jobs by stealing companies from San Francisco or Texas. It's time to start taking more pride in what we do have, turning it around, and building off of that.

 

I'll second this.  Since NAFTA, especially, it makes much more sense to do the simpler end of things in Mexico, where a wage of $2.00 an hour provides a factory worker with a decent living.  Someone in the US doing the exact same job will need $30-$40, plus a full benefits package.  Basically, the better manufacturing treats US workers, the poorer the goods are going to compete in a globalized economy like we have today.

 

Either cheaper labor (in Mexico) or an investment in mechanization and robotics is needed to save American auto makers, which is why the Republicans refused to sign on to the bailout.  The UAW obviously has motives that make it difficult to see this fact, which is only going to compound the problem.  Unless the UAW can concede that the workforce is about twice as large as it should be, there won't be any employers left.

The Men They Couldn't Hang was an anglo-irish folk-punk agitprop band from the 1980s, sort of a "spare Pogues".  I always thought this song sums up US labor-management relations pretty well, even though its about Wales & England

 

Ironmasters

 

 

Oh this is an old story that's rarely ever told

the raping of the country, of the valley

the men who came to reap with a musket and a bible

they wanted to take the valley

the valley! the valley!

they wanted to take the valley

and oh the ironmasters, they always get their way

 

and so far a pittance all the people worked the land

all the men and the women and the children

and on sundays it was down to the chapel in the town

the preacher said give generously!

give generously! give generously!

the people they gave generously

and oh the ironmasters, they always get their way

 

the union met in secret on the dark side of the hill

by the light of a thousand candles

their pay had been cut, all the people come on out

and by scores they were joining Rebecca

Rebecca! Rebecca!

the people were joining Rebecca

and oh the ironmasters, they always get their way

 

riot!

 

ironmaster, call the army

call the hungry from the irish sea

ironmaster, call the parliament

it's no sin to fight to be free!

 

from the smokey stacks of merthyr

to the hills of Ebbw vale

from Swansea docks to Merseyside and Liverpool

with the union leaders crushed

and the union quickly smashed

they blackend the face of the country

the country! the country!

they blackend the face of the country

and oh the ironmasters, they always get their way

 

now on a hill in Brecon is Crawshay's ruined house

and it blackens out the green of the valley

and on the battered grave is the epitaph they gave

it stands there, god forgive him!

forgive him! forgive him!

and all who rot in hell with him

and oh the ironmasters, they always get their way

 

riot!

 

ironmaster, call the army

call the hungry from the irish sea

ironmaster, call the parliament

it's no sin to fight to be free!

 

and oh the ironmasters, they always get their way

and oh the ironmasters, they still get their way!

 

Interesting inter-active map on CNN.com about how automobile industry jobs rank state-by-state.  Ohio ranks 3rd in total auto related jobs.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/map.us.auto/index.html

^#2 in assembly and parts workers - Cali only ranks higher than OH because of # of auto salespeople

Here come more blows to the State of Ohio...

 

Chrysler, Ford idle factories; GM delays new plant

By TOM KRISHER, AP Auto Writer Tom Krisher

 

DETROIT – Chrysler announced Wednesday it is closing all its North American manufacturing plants for at least a month, the starkest move taken by U.S. automakers as they anxiously await word about government loans. 

 

All three companies have been taking dramatic steps as they struggle to survive the recession and U.S. sales have dipped to their slowest rate in 26 years.  Chrysler and General Motors fear they might not have enough money to pay their bills in a matter of weeks.

 

Attempting to cut costs, GM was halting construction of a plant tied to one of its most important projects, the Volt.  Ford also said it will shut down 10 plants for an extra week in January because of sluggish sales.  Chrysler said it would extend the normal two-week holiday shutdown that begins Friday to at least Jan. 19 at all 30 of its factories due to slumping sales.

 

More at http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer

i dk but wouldnt it just be better if one of the big three folds and is absorbed by the other two left standing? kind of like the banks shakeouts? the big two would presumably emerge stronger.

 

or maybe when one of them looks to fold first, uncle sam could just buy it out and close it down slowly over a decade so as to ease the pain. i read this is what england did with i think it was british leyland in the 60's-70s.

 

A merger would involve a lot of redundancy and plant closings.  If that is to happen, I hope we can at least repurpose the plants quickly.  They should be looking toward preserving community stability when they do whatever they're going to do. 

Rumors are the the GM/Chrysler merger discussions are back on (and part of the delay is the Bush Admin. is pushing the merger as part of the bankruptcy proceedings of both companies).

Stay of execution.  Congratulations unions, I guess I'll be paying your retirees healthcare after all:(

Stay of execution. Congratulations unions, I guess I'll be paying your retirees healthcare after all:(

\

 

? what is the point you are trying to make?

Stay of execution.  Congratulations unions, I guess I'll be paying your retirees healthcare after all:(

 

? what is the point you are trying to make?

 

This "bailout" grinds my gears!  There should have been an orderly closing.

I'm expressing enormous disappointment in the bailout because, at least from its description on cnn, it's not addressing any of the real problems.  My god, the unions even refused to spell out any concessions UNTIL the loan was in place because they knew they would get bailed out (the threat of 20+% unemployment is very scary to politicians) and could maintain their bluff until the loans came through.  Instead of playing the negative card - insulting the "Toyota Republicans" - or playing up some sense of patritoism - i.e. look at the good the unions did all those years ago - the UAW should have cemented compromises before the $17 billion loan as an act of good faith.  These maddening legacy costs should have immediately been wiped out or at least suspended until companies become viable (as if in March 31, 2009, everyone's going to be driving a Buick).

 

I know the Big Three filing Chapter 11 or godforbid Chapter 7 claims would spell the death of a lot of towns, perhaps even a significant portion of the midwest, but that's the price of capitalism.  It sucks, it's perhaps even unfair, but it simply is.

 

All that said, I am very proud of Ford's actions overall and I may consider a Taurus when I need a new car.

Suppose it's Chrysler.  That's the most likely one to go.  Thirty plants involved, and someone else may be interested in picking up 2-3 at most.  If it's GM or Ford, they'll undoubtably close their own corresponding plants, so you're still looking at 30 plants going down.  Each of those 30 plants supports one community, whether it's a small town or a portion of a larger metro area.  Each of those 30 communities gets wiped out.  Only then do we begin to measure the effects of the suppliers that have to close as well.  There goes another couple dozen communities, give or take. 

 

I don't care if that's done "orderly" or not, it's disasterous.  If there is no possible way to keep all of the big 3 open, we need direct government investment in those plants to keep them running and employing roughly the same number of people.  Who cares what they're making, have them make Bush statutes of solid iron.  The point is to keep dollars flowing into and around those stricken communities. 

The union guys know they have a sweet gig -- they don't really acquire any skills in those jobs so when they're out say hello to $9/hr.