^ They could have developed an Cobalt replacement that was at least as good as an early '90s Corolla and didn't look dorky.

Bump. Given the bankruptcy of Chrysler and pending bankruptcy of GM.

GM Said to Plan June 1 Bankruptcy as Bondholders Back New Offer

 

"May 28 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the world’s largest automaker until its 77-year reign ended in 2008, plans to file for bankruptcy protection on June 1 and sell most of its assets to a new company, people familiar with the matter said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=top_news&sid=aCdKhRIRlKYE

GM Said to Plan June 1 Bankruptcy as Bondholders Back New Offer

 

"May 28 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the world’s largest automaker until its 77-year reign ended in 2008, plans to file for bankruptcy protection on June 1 and sell most of its assets to a new company, people familiar with the matter said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=top_news&sid=aCdKhRIRlKYE

 

The largest bankruptcy in corporate america!  I say let them go under!

It's about time.  Who would've thought we'd give them millions and they'd still go under? :roll:

It's about time. Who would've thought we'd give them millions and they'd still go under? :roll:

 

A lot of people.

It's about time.  Who would've thought we'd give them millions and they'd still go under? ::)

 

A lot of people.

 

I've been screaming and writing to my elected officials to let them fail!  This is a waste of tax payer time and money.

Michael Moore's suggestions for GM

 

* Don't pump $30 million into GM so it can build more cars. Use that money to help workers stay in their jobs.

 

 

That's where he's ultimately flawed.  The purpose of a company isn't to provide jobs and benefits.. it's to provide a service or good.  The jobs are a bonus that comes with that mission.  If a business is structured and run this way (always focusing on the consumer) it will be successful.  Think Wal-Mart.  If it is run with the focus on the employee, it won't be.  Think GM...

 

A $2 tax on gas to help Government Motors build cars while continuing to overpay their workers is one of the most ridiculous solution you could try to apply.  It's not even socialism-lite at that point..

 

* Don't pump $30 million into GM so it can build more cars. Use that money to help workers stay in their jobs.

 

 

That's where he's ultimately flawed. The purpose of a company isn't to provide jobs and benefits.. it's to provide a service or good. The jobs are a bonus that comes with that mission. If a business is structured and run this way (always focusing on the consumer) it will be successful. Think Wal-Mart. If it is run with the focus on the employee, it won't be. Think GM...

 

A $2 tax on gas to help Government Motors build cars while continuing to overpay their workers is one of the most ridiculous solution you could try to apply. It's not even socialism-lite at that point..

 

I took it to mean what you are at first, and I agree with what you said.  But I think he's saying to use $30 million to help keep (and probably retrain) their current emplyees while they transition away from cars to building trains.  I know he can be out there sometimes, but I would hope he's smart enough to realize it wouldn't be sustainable to just give the employees $30 million in welfare with no long-term plan for the viability of the company.

I wonder if we'd be having the "overpaid worker" debate yet again if these folks were sitting in front of computers instead of working with their hands.

I wonder if we'd be having the "overpaid worker" debate yet again if these folks were sitting in front of computers instead of working with their hands.

 

:roll:

OK, time for the curmudgeon to weigh in.....

 

 

Shattered and Shuttered

By James Howard Kunstler

on June 1, 2009 7:21 AM

   

    The dollar was up to its armpits in quicksand, and oil prices had crept stealthily into the death-to-airlines range, and if, in the old slogan, what's good for General Motors really is good for the USA, then destiny was dealing a harsh lesson to The Land of the Free -- while I made a drive on Thursday (in a Japanese rent-a-car) through the remotest ends of upstate New York State into the province of Ontario, Canada, to see what I could see. What I saw was pretty scary.

    You get into these far reaches of upstate New York and your senses report that you have entered something like an HP Lovecraft story, where the sun comes up twenty minutes late, and the magnetic poles are not where they're supposed to be, and the few remaining denizens of the towns all have eleven fingers.... Even though I've seen plenty of desolation like it in other parts of the country -- the back roads of Ohio, the Mississippi River towns of the upper Midwest, the morbid stretch of blue highway between Memphis and Little Rock -- I've never encountered a landscape so shattered by the mere ravages of economic fate.

   

 

Full entry at http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/06/shattered-and-shuttered.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,524520,00.html

 

Report: GM to Sell Hummer to Chinese Company

Tuesday, June 02, 2009 

 

NEW YORK —  General Motors Corp. has a tentative agreement to sell its Hummer brand to Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. of China, Jeff Flock of FOX Business Network has confirmed.

 

 

............

GM, Chrysler woes to clip economy

Business First of Columbus - by Kevin Kemper

Friday, June 5, 2009

 

http://columbus.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/06/08/story1.html?b=1244433600^1840409

They really need include the first order suppliers in this discussion even though most of them are in chapter 11 (Delphi and Visteon which were parts of GM and Ford respectively).

Suppliers?  Did you say suppliers?

 

Auto industry's pain multiplied for parts suppliers

Sunday,  June 7, 2009 - 3:36 AM

By Dan Gearino, The Columbus Dispatch

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2009/06/07/auto_suppliers.ART_ART_06-07-09_D1_7GE361B.html?sid=101

Some cool pictures of the inside of the plant, as well as other factoids, etc. at:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/08/general_motors_says_lordstown.html

 

General Motors says Lordstown complex is ready for future, with $350 million in new equipment

by Robert Schoenberger/Plain Dealer Reporter

Saturday August 29, 2009, 1:32 PM

 

With $350 million in new equipment, General Motors Corp. says its sprawling Lordstown complex will lead the struggling automaker into a new era.

 

 

..........

Nice hearing some good news regarding big auto in Ohio

'The jobs are gone'

Documentary sheds light on human side of GM plant closing in Moraine

Monday,  September 7, 2009 3:08 AM

By Nick Chordas

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Given that almost 1,100 autoworkers in Moraine were about to lose their jobs, it's hard to believe that The Last Truck: Closing of a GM Plant began in comparatively innocent times.

 

"Someone mentioned the possible bankruptcy of General Motors when we started shooting in June (of 2008), and everyone, including us, said, 'Oh, that's not going to happen,' " said documentary co-director Steven Bognar.

 

Read more at:

 

http://dispatch.com/live/content/life/stories/2009/09/07/1_THE_LAST_TRUCK.ART_ART_09-07-09_D1_NREUTNV.html

I became a member of this forum to answer a question I have about Ford Motor Company and the Lorain Assembly Plant. A week ago I was on my way to Vermilion, Ohio and as I was approaching  Route 6 I saw that the plant had been closed for awhile. This always makes me sad to see another peace of America gone. My wife and I met another couple in Vermilion and my friend and I were discussing it.When he said it closed because the the labor union and the company could not agree on relieve workers to keep the line running during lunch breaks. Is this true? I did not start this tread to start union bashing. I just want to know for my own information. My friend and sit across the table from each other during negotiations. So as you can see we have a unique friendship.Thanks

     

^I used to work an engineer in automotive (so I was on management side), and usually things are not cut and dry like that.

 

Recently the UAW has realized its take it or leave it attitude has more often than not been answered with a "we'll leave it"

They, like the company, have some sacred cows that they will fight for on "principal."  I worked as a supplier to CAP, the Chicago Assembly Plant, which makes the Taurus.  I heard recently the union made a MAJOR concession in allowing more flexible work hours, such as 4 10s instead of 5 8s.  That gives the company much more flexibility and responsiveness to the market.

Cleveland UAW has been even more willing than the national UAW to cut deals, so I doubt that if this was the only sticking point that they could not resolve it.

 

Ford and the UAW's relationship is far from perfect, but they have the best relationship of anyone.

I used to work at that plant as a supplier rep, although I left before it closed. It was a dead man walking for a long time. It was half empty and after they closed the Thunderbird line in the 90's they were left producing only the E-series van which is a 20 year old design.It was a wierd setup with the bodyshop and paint shop in Avon lake. They used to ship the van bodies 7 at a time in special enclosed trailers, which was one of the reasons that they had the turnpike exit put on Baumhart Rd.

^I kinda of miss those enclosed Ford transporters rolling up and down I-90/Route 2 between the two plants. (I don't believe they ever took the turnpike) There was one tagged "In Memory of ..." some driver who had apparently passed away.

^I used to work an engineer in automotive (so I was on management side), and usually things are not cut and dry like that.

 

Recently the UAW has realized its take it or leave it attitude has more often than not been answered with a "we'll leave it"

They, like the company, have some sacred cows that they will fight for on "principal."  I worked as a supplier to CAP, the Chicago Assembly Plant, which makes the Taurus.  I heard recently the union made a MAJOR concession in allowing more flexible work hours, such as 4 10s instead of 5 8s.  That gives the company much more flexibility and responsiveness to the market.

Cleveland UAW has been even more willing than the national UAW to cut deals, so I doubt that if this was the only sticking point that they could not resolve it.

 

Ford and the UAW's relationship is far from perfect, but they have the best relationship of anyone.

 

4 10s is a concession by the union?  Wow...they're out of touch, to put it mildly.  I've worked one place where we had that schedule and it was extremely popular with the work force.  Another place was at 4 9s, and the overwhelming consensus among the work force was they'd rather go back to 4 10s rather than 5 8s.

 

For the most part, it seems to me the UAW's got the message regarding the need to keep employers competitive.  Overly restrictive work rules seem to be a thing of the past in the private sector in general, in fact.

^I kinda of miss those enclosed Ford transporters rolling up and down I-90/Route 2 between the two plants. (I don't believe they ever took the turnpike) There was one tagged "In Memory of ..." some driver who had apparently passed away.

 

My bad you were right about Rt 2.

I had heard rumor this might happen, but this is the first I've heard anything definite. 

 

Saturn Dealers Receive Word About Closing

 

10tv.com

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A Saturn dealer learned on Thursday afternoon the official word that the brand is shutting down.

 

Tom Carpenter, who owns the three central Ohio dealerships, told 10TV's Cara Connelly that he learned the brand he has sold passionately for nearly two decades would close.

 

 

 

 

It looks like its true - see article below.

 

Penske ends bid; Saturn to close

Suitor couldn't find a manufacturer to take over for GM after contract ends

Thursday,  October 1, 2009 - 3:18 AM

 

DETROIT -- General Motors Co. said yesterday that it would shut down its Saturn division after an agreement to sell it to Penske Automotive Group Inc. fell apart.  The Bloomfield, Mich., dealership headed by auto-racing magnate Roger Penske walked away after it failed to find a manufacturer to make vehicles after a contract with GM runs out in 2011.  A tentative deal for Saturn was announced on June 5. Penske was to get Saturn's 371 dealers and promised to retain the 13,000 Saturn employees.  The proposed price was never disclosed.

 

If nothing changes, this would mark an ignominious end for the brand that was supposed to revolutionize the way small cars were built and sold in America.  GM Chairman Roger Smith first unveiled Saturn in November 1983, but the project was slow to develop and the brand did not officially launch until 1990.  GM put more effort into making higher-profit SUVs, and Saturn languished, never making money.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2009/10/01/gm_saturn_1001.ART_ART_10-01-09_A10_AUF8341.html?sid=101

It looks like its true - see article below.

 

Penske ends bid; Saturn to close

Suitor couldn't find a manufacturer to take over for GM after contract ends

Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 3:18 AM

 

DETROIT -- General Motors Co. said yesterday that it would shut down its Saturn division after an agreement to sell it to Penske Automotive Group Inc. fell apart. The Bloomfield, Mich., dealership headed by auto-racing magnate Roger Penske walked away after it failed to find a manufacturer to make vehicles after a contract with GM runs out in 2011. A tentative deal for Saturn was announced on June 5. Penske was to get Saturn's 371 dealers and promised to retain the 13,000 Saturn employees. The proposed price was never disclosed.

 

If nothing changes, this would mark an ignominious end for the brand that was supposed to revolutionize the way small cars were built and sold in America. GM Chairman Roger Smith first unveiled Saturn in November 1983, but the project was slow to develop and the brand did not officially launch until 1990. GM put more effort into making higher-profit SUVs, and Saturn languished, never making money.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2009/10/01/gm_saturn_1001.ART_ART_10-01-09_A10_AUF8341.html?sid=101

 

It's unbelieveable how GM's unions managed to finish off the best quality product General Motors had.

 

Dump Saturn to save Buick? Buick is as useless as Oldsmobile was.  And the same people who helped to make this boneheaded move actually wonder why people in the U.S buy Japanese and European cars in droves.

^ I've read that Buick is very popular in foreign markets. (China maybe, can't remember)

I have thought the same about Buick.  At least stop selling Buick here in the states.  I very rarely even see Buicks made in the last few years.

Assuming GM survives, Buick is supposed to grow its line and sit with GMC as a second pair dealers. It is huge in China. Saturn's problems have been well discussed around the car world. GM has been screwing them over for 15 years. Also the loss of Opel from the core of the GM family meant they had no product for it. It turns they couldn't convince the Korean part of Renault-Nissan to provide it with cars.

^ I've read that Buick is very popular in foreign markets. (China maybe, can't remember)

Yes, GM has about a 10% market share in China, largely featuring Buicks.  10% is quite impressive, considering that China is a controlled economy and GM is a foreign brand.

 

Sad news about Saturn.  Everybody I know who bought a Saturn liked them.

 

The article said that Roger Smith launched Saturn in 1983.  Smith was still running GM for several years until a weak period, punctuated by Michael Moore's movie did him in.  I would say that the poor launch under incompetent Smith ultimately doomed Saturn. 

 

I also think that the oil glut caused by more production and the Bush-Saudi plan to overproduce oil caused a ruin in the sales of small automobiles.  Americans somehow got the idea that there would be enough oil to drive Explorers and Suburbans forever. 

GM's overall problems aren't about being "greener", they're about quality. 

 

Saturn is what it was: An attempt by GM to grow a "Japanese/Euro-style high quality" carmaker in an era when quite honestly American car production values were a joke. Sure, people went large in the 90's, but it was the quality issue that kept Saturn going even with small cars, practically no advertising and an hostile environment in it's own parent company when Union members began filling GM board seats.

 

The Economist ran a great article 6 months ago on the disaster that is the new GM. Buick's prospects are, not surprisingly, quite bleak. Buick has already peaked in China. Similiar-class Japanese/Euro vehicles there are outpacing Buick's growth. It's a dead brand in America due to the decades of making upper-end, low quality products. By the time it starting making decent vehicles, it was too late and even the almighty Tiger Woods couldn't save it. It never had a chance against the likes of Lexus or Acura which were quality from Day 1.

 

Meanwhile, Saturn had a core group of buyers who had the rare positive view of quality for a GM product. Instead of fostering that view into their other products, the GM board shuts it down.

 

As devastating as it would be for Ohio's economy, part of me thinks that GM deserves to fail and hopes they do. Maybe Ford can pick up the slack from GM, they seem to have a future that makes sense.

Worst car I ever owned was a Saturn, and the Saturn dealer refused to stand by their product when it turned out to be a lemon. I knew the car's body panels were made of plastic, but apparently so was the engine block.

 

Good riddance.

Whoever above, implied that Oldsmobile and Buick was a bad product, in my opinion is mistaken. In the 80's/90's These two cars were very reliable. My work has driven me thousands of miles and of all the US makes/models out there...  The Buick LeSabre and Cutlasses were among the most reliable and trouble free of cars. The ones I bought were good on fuel, solidly made, not a lot to maintain and just went forever.  There were times they made them crappy, sure, but overall, that was a bread and butter item for GM. They were as close to higher quality in their price range that we had. That has been my personal experiences with them

I remember when Columbus Saturn dealerships had Jack Hannah as their spokesman. lol! Anyone remember that?

I'm posting this here because I'm "sure" GM will use some Ohio suppliers for components and materials.... :)

 

GM plugs $336 million into Volt production

The nation's largest automaker says it will invest millions in a Detroit-area plant slated to manufacture the electric car next year.

December 7, 2009: 11:55 AM ET

 

DETROIT (Reuters) -- General Motors Co. will invest $336 million in a Detroit-area plant to produce its heavily anticipated Chevrolet Volt electric car beginning next year, the No. 1 U.S. automaker said Monday.

 

Assembly of Volt prototype vehicles will begin in the spring at GM's Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant, with the regular production scheduled for late 2010, GM said.

 

The plant currently employees about 1,200 workers, including 1,100 hourly workers represented by the United Auto Workers union.

 

GM said the investment brings the automaker's combined spending in Michigan related to the Chevy Volt plug-in car to $700 million.

 

GM is counting on the Volt and other upcoming fuel-efficient vehicles such as the Chevy Cruze small car to revitalize its lineup as it restructures after emerging from bankruptcy in July.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/07/autos/GM_volt.reut/index.htm

Its been a good week for the valley!

 

Lordstown getting a 3rd shift.  1200 direct jobs.  At least 800-900 new (about 300-400 called back) :clap:

 

Story in PD: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/gm_adding_1200_autoworkers_at.html

I hope GM profits from the Toyota fiasco.

Its been a good week for the valley!

 

 

 

It sure has!!! The folks in Youngstown-Warren have to pinching themselves! Here's a few threads about it:

 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22242.0.html

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,8297.0.html

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6916.0.html

Good to hear!

GM to shut down Hummer business

The move comes after a deal to sell the business to a Chinese company falls apart

Posted by Charley Blaine on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 4:02 PM

 

General Motors said today it will wind down its Hummer SUV line after failing to complete a deal to sell the brand to China's Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co.

 

The Hummer is a large SUV that was modified from a U.S. Army vehicle that was very visible during the 1991 Persian Gulf War.  It came to personify big, gas-guzzling vehicles.  But its popularity crashed when gasoline prices began to soar.

 

"GM will now work closely with Hummer employees, dealers and suppliers to wind down the business in an orderly and responsible manner," John Smith, GM vice president of corporate planning and alliances, said in a statement.

 

Full article at http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches.aspx?post=1655878&_blg=1,1655878

 

General Motors CEO Ed Whitacre has bragged in TV commercials and newspaper columns that GM has paid back its bailout "in full and ahead of schedule."

 

As with the Pontiac Aztek, an ugly exterior masks an ever darker problem: Whitacre is being fanciful to the point of deceit. GM received $50 billion in TARP funds (never mind that TARP was only supposed to cover financial institutions). About $7 billion of that came in the form of a straight-up, low-interest loan. And about $13 billion came in the form of an escrow account.

 

So how has GM, which lost $38 billion in 2007 even as it sold 9.4 million cars, paid back its debt? It took money from the escrow account to pay back the $6.7 billion loan.

 

General Motors sets overtime shift for Lordstown to meet growing Chevrolet Cruze demand

Published: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 6:32 PM    Updated: Thursday, September 01, 2011, 9:13 AM

By Robert Schoenberger, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- About 4,500 GM autoworkers in Lordstown will be working some unexpected extra hours as General Motors struggles to keep the popular Chevrolet Cruze on dealer lots.

 

"That's the demand that's out there," said GM spokesman Tom Mock. "We're building them as fast as we can."

 

Working Saturday overtime shifts is common at some auto plants, but GM didn't expect to have to use the expensive option in Lordstown so soon. Veteran workers will get about $42 an hour in time-and-a-half wages. Newer workers will earn about $22 an hour on the overtime shifts.

 

Before the Cruze went into production, the company last year added a third shift to Lordstown, allowing it to effectively run 24 hours a day from Monday through Friday. All three of those shifts will report on Sept. 10 and Sept. 17.

 

Read more at: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/08/general_motors_sets_overtime_s.html

Cross-posted in the Toledo Random Developments thread....

 

Published: 11/8/2011

 

Chrysler Toledo plan expected Nov. 16

CEO visit possible; firm mum on details

BLADE STAFF

 

Chrysler Group LLC is expected to announce plans for its Toledo Assembly complex on Nov. 16.

 

The long-awaited announcement, key details of which have been reported since August by The Blade, is expected to include $357 million in investment, adding 1,105 jobs, and an $8 million expansion at the complex’s factory which now makes Jeep Liberty and Dodge Nitro vehicles.

 

Some details of the plans previously were disclosed by the automaker through documents it provided to state and Ohio officials. However, the company has not made an official announcement.

 

It was not immediately clear whether Chrysler Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne would be present, but some experts expected he would be. Chrysler said on Monday that it was not providing details on next week’s announcement.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.toledoblade.com/Automotive/2011/11/08/Chrysler-Toledo-plan-expected-Nov-16-2.html

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-tuscarawas-county-factory-fire-janesville-acoustics-txt,0,7878603.story

 

This could get interesting.  It sounds like the plant is a total loss.  While they have other plants in the area (Norwalk, Columbus), the odds are that parts for certain cars were only made at this plant.  The OEMs also hate to carry inventory.

 

Theoretically, you could see some assembly lines idled over this (as it turns out, the Cruze lines at Lordstown are shut down this week anyway) and that could carry over to suppliers very quickly.

Looks like an opportunity to build a run of lighter "R" or "S" versions of cars without the insulation and sound deadening material!

GCrites80s, they already make a car like that: the Toyota Matrix

Many of the parts would come from Europe. If they want to build this in Lordstown, then it could mean using Short-Sea Shipping containers through the port of Cleveland and then rail to Lordstown. Problem is there's no direct rail to Lordstown and the large freight railroads would rather send the parts through an East Coast port which raises the costs. A linkup of smaller, low-cost regional railroads could do the trick, but the infrastructure needs major enhancement: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,8721.msg589014.html#msg589014

 

New hybrid Cruze is planned

November 29, 2011

Tribune Chronicle | TribToday.com

 

GM said to be planning electric-gasoline Cruze

 

Already planning to build a diesel version of its popular Chevrolet Cruze compact car next year, General Motors Co. reportedly is preparing to go even further to a plug-in electric-gasoline model.

 

Word from Australian automotive websites is that GM is working on a Cruze for 2014 that will combine battery and gasoline powertrains.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/564692/New-hybrid-Cruze-is-planned.html?nav=5003