I'm a first time poster, but I came across some shots I took back in my Cooper School of Art days. I included only shots that either don't currently exist, or have significantly changed. Enjoy!

OHHHHHHHHHH MY WHAT AN AMAZING FIRST POST.  WELCOME TO URBAN OHIO.

 

WOW!!

fascinating pics... it's amazing how distant the early 80s are starting to feel... lots of retail in those pics!

WOW.

 

Someone please do a re-take on these, only in 2008!

Holy mother of God.  Fantastic first post and welcome!

Welcome to the site!  Downtown Cleveland of the 80's looks fascinating and fascinatingly down and out.  Thanks for posting.

Wow...thanks for taking the time to share those photos!  They definitely put things into perspective.

 

Welcome to Urban Ohio!

That's awesome, man. Thanks for sharing these.

Nice shots.  Interesting shots... Compare this...

 

 

... to MRN's current E.4th Street.  Major upgrade, today, but there sure was a lot of foot-traffic on the old street back then.

the pictures that stood out for me

– The standard theatre

– Lower euclid

– Halles

– The inside entrance to Higbees

Wow, great first post! Although with less retail and foot traffic, in many respects, downtown looks much better today.

I'd trade today's washed and clean E4th and Prospect Avenue for that grit and authenticity any day of the week.  All those signs and little restaurants.  Truely amazing photos.

Great post.

 

I never knew that the Rathskeller started out on E.4th. From the looks of its current location, I thought that it had been on Prospect since the 50s.

I'd trade today's washed and clean E4th and Prospect Avenue for that grit and authenticity any day of the week.  All those signs and little restaurants.  Truely amazing photos.

 

I hear so many people say that but how many of those places would actually be patronized by the "grit fanatics". I can appreciate a nice urban patina and healthy foot traffic, but I doubt I'll be stopping to have my shoes dyed, or check out the selection of "wigs, falls, and cascades", or shopping at Sissers for some "fine" jewelry. 

 

Whatever the case, EXCELLENT first post and welcome to the forum, BarneyBoy!

I hear so many people say that but how many of those places would actually be patronized by the "grit fanatics". I can appreciate a nice urban patina and healthy foot traffic, but I doubt I'll be stopping to have my shoes dyed, or check out the selection of "wigs, falls, and cascades", or shopping at Sissers for some "fine" jewelry. 

 

Perfectly put Mayday... I'd love to have the vibrancy shown in these pics, but they also have "City in rapid decline" written all over them.

I hear so many people say that but how many of those places would actually be patronized by the "grit fanatics". I can appreciate a nice urban patina and healthy foot traffic, but I doubt I'll be stopping to have my shoes dyed, or check out the selection of "wigs, falls, and cascades", or shopping at Sissers for some "fine" jewelry. 

 

Perfectly put Mayday... I'd love to have the vibrancy shown in these pics, but they also have "City in rapid decline" written all over them.

 

Fair enough, but it's a shame that that kind of microscale of a neighborhood doesn't exist in this city anymore(or many in the USA for that matter).  The layering of different uses, time, and I guess the romantisism of a vibrancy existing in a setting of urban decay.

Perfectly put Mayday... I'd love to have the vibrancy shown in these pics, but they also have "City in rapid decline" written all over them.

 

First of all, that was a great post.  Thank you so much!  Secondly, what makes you say Cleveland looks like a "City in rapid decline" in these photos?  The store fronts all look occupied, there is lots of foot traffic, there is building density up and down the streets.  The city appears healthy to me. 

"The store fronts all look occupied, there is lots of foot traffic,"

 

The same could be said about Tower City Center's shopping component - it appears healthy alright. Appears being the operative word.

^^ I see a lot, and I mean a LOT of discount stores... the upper end stuff, outside of Higbees and Halle's has already moved on.  I see a lot of store fronts in disrepair and boarded up windows.  Just look at the picture of the Colonial arcade.  Does the standard theatre look like a place you want to go in to?  Look at the condition of the Hippodrome as it's being torn down.  This was an area on it's last legs, with lots of foot traffic due to the fact there were still more jobs downtown.   These pics were taken in the early 80's, which means this is right before we hit rock bottom.  it wasn't long after these pictures that pretty much every business you see here was no longer in business.

 

And yes Barney boy... Welcome.  Oustanding set of photos.

I think the important thing these photos show is there was a demand for local retailing at the time.  Not saying that we should still have streets filled with shoe shine and jewlery stores, but if we could of switched over to another form of local retailing with similar density on the streets, that would be great.  It seems that we went from nice density shown in those pics, to no density, to trying to build density again.  I would have to say, despite what retailers and restaurants that are shown in these pics, it appears the city may have looked slightly healthier then compared to today.  Yes, it was in decline, but these photo's were taken right at the end of the hayday where the local retailers were still present. 

Best 1st post ever... Thanks for sharing!

 

I would suspect that the Hippodrome was torn down explicitly for parking, but does anyone know how the demo was portrayed back then?  Was the building in disrepair?  Was there a fire?  Were there redevelopment plans?

^did people even care?? I wonder.

I don't think people cared as much back then because they didn't have a concept of how diruptive the effects of urban sprawl would be.  I don't think they would have ever believed the dept stores and retailers would follow sprawl to the suburbs.  I think they were shocked when the exodus occurred, and re-acted moreso than acted at the time.  Basically, I think they always viewed dt Cleveland as the hub for retail and employment and it always would be.

^From what I've been told, like the rest of the theatres, it just went dark, fell into enormous disrepair, and somebody bought the property and decided it was much more valuable as a parking lot than as a building.  70's / 80's were really pre historic preservation days.  The vast majority of people didn't give a crap about that stuff back then (See Warehouse District, The).

 

EDIT:

Actually, I saw a piece once with one of the old city planning directors.  Most of the demolition taken place at this time was intentionally done to create the surface lots.  It was actually pretty much the city's last stand against sprawl.  They thought by leveling buildings and creating ample (at the time free) parking they could compete with the ever growing suburban malls.  This, they thought, would encourage people to come down and frequent places like Halle's , Higbee's, etc.  Didn't work out quite the way they planned.

 

I think I just made myself sick.

^At that point, Playhouse Square theatres had just started to be renovated so yes, people cared.

 

The problem was the Hippodrome stood directly across from a "beautiful" new office complex built at a time when suburban flight was at its zenith. And just like another "urban renewal" project on West 3rd and Ontario, it resulted in adjacent historic buildings being demolished:

 

key to my statement Mayday... "vast majority".  Yes there were some who cared, but they were a very small, albeit dedicated, group.

"key to my statement Mayday... "vast majority"."

 

Sorry, I tend to ignore the unwashed masses and references hitherto ;-)

It looks like the building that was located across the street from the Colonial Arcade was recently demolished in the picture above (now a surface lot). Does anyone know what was there and when it was demolished?

^From what I've been told, like the rest of the theatres, it just went dark, fell into enormous disrepair, and somebody bought the property and decided it was much more valuable as a parking lot than as a building.  70's / 80's were really pre historic preservation days.  The vast majority of people didn't give a crap about that stuff back then (See Warehouse District, The).

 

EDIT:

Actually, I saw a piece once with one of the old city planning directors.  Most of the demolition taken place at this time was intentionally done to create the surface lots.  It was actually pretty much the city's last stand against sprawl.  They thought by leveling buildings and creating ample (at the time free) parking they could compete with the ever growing suburban malls.  This, they thought, would encourage people to come down and frequent places like Halle's , Higbee's, etc.  Didn't work out quite the way they planned.

 

I think I just made myself sick.

 

Just ridiculous that we lost so many buildings for temporary car storage that probably make 80 cents an hour on average for the lot owners.  Sickening.

It looks like the building that was located across the street from the Colonial Arcade was recently demolished in the picture above (now a surface lot). Does anyone know what was there and when it was demolished?

 

I don't know what was there, or why it was demolished.  I do however know that it is one of the only surface lot pieces of land actually owned by the city.  They are waiting for the right proposal to develop it.

EDIT:

Actually, I saw a piece once with one of the old city planning directors.  Most of the demolition taken place at this time was intentionally done to create the surface lots.  It was actually pretty much the city's last stand against sprawl.  They thought by leveling buildings and creating ample (at the time free) parking they could compete with the ever growing suburban malls.  This, they thought, would encourage people to come down and frequent places like Halle's , Higbee's, etc.  Didn't work out quite the way they planned.

 

I think I just made myself sick.

 

What kind of loser quotes himself?  This guy.

 

I just remember where I saw this.  If anyone missed it, they aired this documentary on PBS last year.  It is riveting. If you care about Cleveland or urban centers at all, you need to watch this.  Actually, after watching this I turned to my now fiance and informed her that we would never be leaving the city limits. Ever.

 

http://www.makingsenseofplace.org/cleveland/about/description.asp

 

 

The buildings across the street from the Colonial Hotel were a discount "Mart" on the corner, which was boarded up for decades, and next door was the Bing Co., another retailer housed in a very tall/narrow art deco bulding that was to have been rehabbed, but wasn't. I've got a shot of that building and will include it later.

"I've got a shot of that building and will include it later."

 

Oh, I supPOSE if you have more images, we can take a look...

 

How many of you worked in Downtown Cleveland in the '80s?  Do you think downtown then is better than it is now?

How many of you worked in Downtown Cleveland in the '80s? Do you think downtown then is better than it is now?

 

I was too young to be working yet :) but was in HS from 81-85 and can recall being in Union Terminal (prior to Tower City of course) at 3:30 in the afternoon and it was empty and I mean maybe you would see half a dozen people wandering around tops. Guess all the people were up on E. 4th.

 

I think downtown is better now from a built environment standpoint, although the loss of so many historic structures is sad indeed. From a vibrancy standpoint, it's on its way back, but only due to the growing residential element and younger generations of downtown workers. The generation that abandoned downtown for the suburbs will never come back in any meaningful way to support it as a retail/entertainment hub, even those that work downtown now.

How many of you worked in Downtown Cleveland in the '80s?  Do you think downtown then is better than it is now?

 

How many of you worked in Downtown Cleveland in the '80s?  Do you think downtown then is better than it is now?

 

I've worked downtown off and on since 1977 and except for the dearth of retail and the current state of transition (Euclid Corridor, building rehabs, etc) my answer would be YES, a thousand times YES, believe it or don't.

Those photos are simply amazing, thanks Barneyboy.

 

I love that there was a "Meat" store in the Colonial Arcade.

 

Comparing downtown then to downtown today is pretty tricky...wish we could pick out the best from both times.  We certainly have lost a lot.

Excellent post, and welcome!!!

The comparison of the retail then to now is interesting.  I think that what we are seeing here is illustrative of the way that building stock cycles from construction through obsolecense, and the functions that allows the buildings to house.  The photos posted here show a building stock that is at the end of that cycle, and relatively cheap.  That allows funky, unusual, and (not unrelatedly) poorly capitalized businesses to move in and occupy space.  This makes for an interesting commercial mix, but isn't sustainable in the long run, as these poorly capitalized businesses don't really have the money to keep up the building (or more accurately the money to pay the rent necessary for a landlord to do it).  So the building becomes obsolete, at which point it can be demolished, or completely gutted and renovated, which is what we see happening in this area today.  That is very expensive to do, and requires better capitalized businesses in order to meet the rent.  These businesses tend to be more conventional.

^ thats not really true. small retail businesses in old stock rundown buildings can remain indefinately as long as the population is stable and the gentrifying forces ignore the area. east 4th st is a typical example. it's lively in those pics, but after a 175k drop in the city population since 1980 or so the street was gradually all but abandoned. thankfully the stock was still around to be revived.

 

wow what a great thread -- speaking of e4th, the rathskeller and otto mosers were my hangouts before and after sports games. i loved watching them make corned beef sandwiches in the window at the rath as a kid and went in there every chance i got to get a sandwich (and later on to get served some beer underage - ha). it had the best mix of people in the city.

 

so yeah, please bring on some more pics when you can.

 

 

^^I somewhat agree with your observation, but I'd argue that it's really more of a social cycle than it is a building cycle.  Many of those buildings were the victims of changing social circumstances (mainly the flight of shopping money to the burbs), but were not inherently architecturally obsolete.  Same can be said for the typical neighborhood storefront in Cleveland neighborhoods, which might, as a building type, do just fine in Lakewood or Cleveland Heights.

wow what a great thread -- speaking of e4th, the rathskeller and otto mosers were my hangouts before and after sports games. i loved watching them make corned beef sandwiches in the window at the rath as a kid and went in there every chance i got to get a sandwich (and later on to get served some beer underage - ha). it had the best mix of people in the city.

 

I'm just old enough to remember these spots on E4th, and I sure wish they were still there.  Even though all the buildings weren't knocked down, the discontinuity in downtown commerce is really heartbreaking.

yes true, but the massive drop in population is the keystone.

 

however, dont get me wrong about the e4th example. i dont think e4th would still be there today in that low rent form, not with the q and the jake and all. it's in too prime a spot, it would be gentrified anyway.

Thank you for these wonderful photos.

I, too, was surprised to see the Hippodrome photo -- I always assumed that came down in the 50s or 60s. Meanwhile, here's an article I found about the guy who demolished it, the Standard Theatre and other stuff in that area. Great guy, this Krenzler.

 

THEATER DEMOLITION A HUGE BLOW FOR DOWNTOWN

BYLINE: By STEVEN LITT; PLAIN DEALER ARCHITECTURE CRITIC

SECTION: ARTS & LIVING; Pg. 1J

DATE: Sometime in 1995 (sorry, forgot to grab exact date)

 

Alvin I. Krenzler, a retired U.S. district judge, exercised his rights as a property owner nine days ago when he ordered the demolition of the Standard Theater Building at 811 Prospect Ave. in downtown Cleveland.

 

But he erased a piece of Cleveland history, chipped away at the integrity of a soon-to-be designated National Register Historic District, and crushed the hopes of some eager would-be tenants.

 

Krenzler decided to tear down the building after its last occupant, a luggage repair company, moved outside the city. The five-story front section of the building, erected in 1905, still stands. But a crew from E&E Excavating Co. has demolished the theater, which was added to the rear of the building in 1914. Krenzler said the rest will come down in 40 to 60 days.

 

The loss of the building, designed by Cleveland architect Adolphus Sprackling, will be significant. With its rugged concrete and steel structure, its flowery plaster ornament, and its simple, handsome brick facade, it is a good, solid piece of early 20th-century commercial architecture.

 

Such buildings contribute to the sense of place that lies at the core of a city's visual personality. They evoke a sense of wonder, and make the past come alive. Unfortunately, "background" buildings like the Standard Theater are easily endangered because they get less attention than monuments like the Terminal Tower or the old Society National Bank Building on Public Square.

 

The completion of the Gateway sports complex a block south of the Standard Theater Building has added uncertainty to the status of the surrounding neighborhood. It has enhanced property values, creating the prospect of new development, while also raising the specter that building owners would demolish whole groups of buildings like the Standard for surface parking.

 

Fortunately, the city has cracked down on demolition requests. Partially as a result of Krenzler's request to tear down the Standard, Cleveland City Council in June gave the Planning Commission new powers to delay demolition of historic downtown buildings for up to a year.

 

The council also made it tougher to demolish downtown buildings to create surface parking lots.

 

Meanwhile, the Cleveland Landmarks Commission nominated the seven-block neighborhood around the Standard for listing on the National Historic Register. The designation, which has yet to be approved by the U.S. Department of the Interior, will make properties within the district eligible for 20 percent renovation tax credits.

 

The pending availability of tax credits for the Gateway area is one reason developers are showing interest in turning vacant offices in the neighborhood into apartments and condominiums. Another is the pent-up demand in Greater Cleveland for downtown housing.

 

Renovations of two buildings near the Standard - the Buckeye Building and the Finance Building - soon will be under way, according to Paul Krutko, downtown housing manager for the city's Department of Community Development. The projects will add a combined 98 apartments to downtown. Other renovation projects are in the offing.

 

Krenzler could have availed himself of the tax credit program. But in deciding to tear down the Standard, he submitted the building to a strict financial logic that did not include what he called "subsidies." He said he could not accept an offer from Nick Kostis - owner of Hilarities, a downtown comedy club - who was anxious to rent the Standard Theater. Nor would Krenzler consider renting the upper stories of the building as warehouse space.

 

The decision to demolish is especially sad because the Standard is structurally sound. Recent visitors to the structure, including City Planning Director Hunter Morrison and architect Richard Pace, said the building is in good shape. Morrison said it would have been difficult to renovate for offices or housing, but Pace said the building could have generated income without a major investment.

 

"There are potential users out there that might make it feasible," he said.

 

Krenzler was not interested. Demolishing the Standard is part of a larger real estate plan for adjacent properties that he has nurtured for more than three decades.

 

The immediate effect of the demolition is to make more room for cars to exit a 690-space parking garage Krenzler owns next to the theater, across narrow E. 8th St. The demolition will also create breathing room for future construction on a 200-by-400-foot parking lot Krenzler owns immediately west of E. 8th St., along Prospect Ave. In addition, Krenzler owns a parking lot north of the garage, which faces Euclid Ave. That lot, too, is a potential development site.

 

Krenzler painstakingly assembled the entire parcel from Euclid to Prospect avenues since 1963. He purchased more than 10 individual lots, and tore down buildings, including the historic Hippodrome, a 3,000-seat theater.

 

"The whole theory was to clean it out and go with new buildings," he said. "Maybe what comes after is better than what's there."

 

Today, chances for new construction along lower Prospect and Euclid avenues appear dim. Krenzler, 74, said he has had no recent proposals for development of his land, and no plans to build soon.

 

"I'll let my children and grandchildren figure that out," he said. "That'll give them a lot of character, working with that property."

 

Meanwhile, the Standard Theater Building will come down, and the parking lots along Euclid and Prospect will remain. Krenzler will landscape the front portion of the Standard lot as a park.

 

A park is better than nothing, but it would have been better if the Standard Theater Building had been left standing. Developments in the Gateway neighborhood show that renovating such buildings can make economic sense, especially when government uses the carrot of tax credits, and the stick of tougher zoning.

Best thread in awhile for cleveland photo thereads.

Hard to imagine that the city club building had a worse facade than it does now. I also like looking and streetscapes pre-X. Such as pre sohio building pre bank-one building. Its also kinda neat to see my bar, Moriarty's hasn't changed much through time.

I wonder if you can send all of these pictures to cleveland memory project. I think they would eat this stuff up. They don't have alot of colorized pictures from the 70's-80's

wow what a great thread -- speaking of e4th, the rathskeller and otto mosers were my hangouts before and after sports games. i loved watching them make corned beef sandwiches in the window at the rath as a kid and went in there every chance i got to get a sandwich (and later on to get served some beer underage - ha). it had the best mix of people in the city.

 

I'm just old enough to remember these spots on E4th, and I sure wish they were still there.  Even though all the buildings weren't knocked down, the discontinuity in downtown commerce is really heartbreaking.

 

Whippersnapper, you aren't missing a thing!  As someone who worked in downtown Cleveland since '84, Miss Chang's wig shop and Vogue Beauty academy are nothing to miss.  I really wish we could have found a place for the central market and Mr. Hero.

^I don't miss the wig shops (I definitely remember those), but why shouldn't I miss the original digs of Raskeller and Otto Mosers?  Especially the latter, which had been in that same spot for decades?  It's not like I'm romanticizing the hookers of Prospect Avenue. 

^I don't miss the wig shops (I definitely remember those), but why shouldn't I miss the original digs of Raskeller and Otto Mosers?  Especially the latter, which had been in that same spot for decades?  It's not like I'm romanticizing the hookers of Prospect Avenue. 

Oh they were just fun too much fun!  Is (that prostitute) a boy or a girl?