Our Ohio Metro's have many many more F500 than Las Vegas, but some how this places is able to grow leaps and bounds. It's metro is currently at 2,075,393.  Their three F500 are in the entertainment industry(casino's). How can their Casino's out pace Ohio's much more diverse economy?? Is Ohio going after the wrong industries? It really bothers me to look at what Vegas has done the 6-7 years, where it took Cincinnati 30-40 years to do the same thing. I'm talking about job, population etc.

Vice

Casino's and resorts are a huge industry. Add to that year round tourism and it equals a pretty big chunk of change which leads to growth. Too bad Ohio just can't seem to figure this one out. Pass a law that allows casino's to be built and Ohio would gain a bit back.

 

Out of curiosity, you have been to Vegas, right?

Yes i have. back in 1997. There was nothing 5 miles outside of Vegas then.  Of course that has changed.

Vegas only industry is tourism, so they've made a business. Casino's on that ascale in other cities cannot compete.  Look at Detroit.

 

Also, look at Vegas foreclosure rate.  The city is overbuilt, overbuilt, overbuilt!

Pretty much everyone's foreclosure rate is in the toilet right now. However, Vegas is the number one growing city in the U.S. in percentage of population growth, Phoenix in total population growth. Those desert cities are doing something right. I'm sure it's not the summer heat.

Maybe they are escaping the high price of the west coast. San Diego has stopped growing all together. But still all them people needs jobs. So Something is opening up there. I'm guessing the construction industry will take a BIG hit with the oversupply of homes. Do those town's have 1000's of small companies employing about 50-100 each? Something will have to give one of these days and it won't be pretty.

One of my older brothers lost his construction job in Columbus recently and is now living in Vegas making 50 bucks an hour at the age of 24 with a construction management degree so there's no way in hell you can tell me Vegas is struggling in development. Like I said, there's a difference between going under and making LESS money. Nevada has no income tax which is good for investment. They're also one of the few gambling destinations that don't leech of local residents. Vegas is a world destination. You survive economically by offering something people on the outside need and Vegas brings in money that isn't just brought in locally or regionally. Gambling will not save Cincinnati or any other Ohio city. They're totally different.

I wonder what would happen to Vegas once gas rise to the 6$-10$ range and airline tickets are so out of reach(fuel) no one but the rich would be able to afford it?

'

I wonder what would happen to Vegas once gas rise to the 6$-10$ range and airline tickets are so out of reach(fuel) no one but the rich would be able to afford it?

'

 

It never stopped me and I already can't afford it! :lol:

It's called attitude.  Las Vegas is fun, sexy, aggressive, exciting and Ohio is boring, homogenous, pathetic.  We all know that isn't the truth but if you weren't vested there would be a good chance that you would feel that way.  I can tell someone that I'm going to Vegas and they'll be like "Man that's going to be exciting" but if I tell you that I'm going to the nati they'll be like okay, cool while thinking to themselves "Damn, that's pretty boring".

but if I tell you that I'm going to the nati they'll be like okay, cool while thinking to themselves "Damn, that's pretty boring".

 

That's because we in Cincinnati have MORALS! and VALUES!! (I actually said that with a straight face).

^I have MORALS and VALUES and I don't go to Church or believe in a higher power, also I LOVE Las Vegas.  I know what it right and what is wrong.  Gambling and Vegas is an obvious Taboo to American society.  We all LOVE the idea about glitz, gambling and that loose fringe party atmosphere that is Las Vegas, but it falls into another case of NIMBY.  "But Gambling brings in violence, crime and all the unwanteds"  When I was in Vegas for about 4 days, I saw maybe one Police car on the Strip.  I felt VERY SAFE.  Vegas Hotels polices and governs themselves, and they do a damn good job at it. 

It is stupid to relate foreclosure and sprawl to Vegas like some have.  This is happening in EVERY American city. Isn't growth a good thing?  But sprawl is bad, wha wha wha.  It is what it is.  It's Las Vegas.  People have to live somewhere and living in or just off the Strip wouldn't be very fun.  Working in Las Vegas can be very, very rewarding.  Casino dealers can make up to 80,000 a year, and they just DEAL cards to people.  Bartenders, could possibly make over 100,000 a year.  So why is everyone bashing Vegas?  Isn't that the American way, [glow=red,2,300]work hard, play hard[/glow]?

 

Maybe the problem with OHIO is that we are too passionate about our MORALS and VALUES, which in turn prevent us from greater opportunity.

I really don't think that Vegas will be "Vegas" in a few decades.

One thing Vegas has done well is provide good wages and upward mobility for people without college educations (remember those folks?).  Lostincincinnati nailed it there.  If you are mobile and without a degree, what are you going to do- stay in Ohio and wait tables for $18k a year with no benefits or head to Vegas for 3-4 times that amount with benefits? 

I'm not sure if we should be looking up to Vegas as an example. The region as a whole is draining water from the Colorado River, and the city is one of the primary reasons why the river stops short of the Mexico border. There is also a massive amount of sprawl and an over-reliance on the automobile.

I really don't think that Vegas will be "Vegas" in a few decades.

 

could you elaborate on what you meant by the above statement?

Vegas has been able to reinvent itself for several decades now.  I don't think anything will stop the City from growing and keeping the same atmosphere it has had for years now.  Plus the proposal of having a possible NBA team or MLB team in Vegas will only make the city that much more stronger.

I really don't think that Vegas will be "Vegas" in a few decades.

 

could you elaborate on what you meant by the above statement?

 

Vegas has been able to grow, in population terms and therefore in the public imagination, based on a rather unique set of circumstances. When those circumstances are no longer prevalent, it will suffer to the same degree that it has prospered.

 

Diminishing resources are a bitch.

 

The "reinvention" of Vegas has really only been in terms of marketing. Dealing with expensive water and oil will take more than a legacy of glitz.

What's interesting is if you look at aerial photos, Vegas is actually very densely built.  They build houses on postage stamp lots that make most any prewar neighborhood in Ohio look spacious- and that everywhere in the metro area.  It is however still very car dependent.

 

There use of water resources is abhorrent, but not really relevent to our looking up to them as an economic model.

Also, at least 20 projects have gone under in the past two years.  Those people that think ohio cities start projects and cancel them its worse in Vegas.

 

We we're (I need to confirm this withmy staff) a project with a hotel/casino in vegas and were going to host the opening event.  The property just went into foreclosure.  I see vegas going thru its usual high and low periods.

I know first hand the effects of that last statement made by MyTwoSense.  One of our projects have been put on hold and it was a HUGE project.  I'm lucky I still have a job.

 

I don't see how we can look to Vegas in any way shape or form as a model to look up to or strive to be.  Vegas is in a legue of its own.  It's main draw is the gambling and entertainment industry.  It also has a very beautiful climate and the geography is breath taking.  These are things that Ohio does not have an abundance of.  Even if you tried to be as glitzy and glamerous as Vegas, our climate would not allow success.  With the housing market, yes, everyone is effected by it, but Vegas even more so because of poor planning and business practices.  (Actually, I think they just grew too quick, I dunno) 

 

I went to Vegas about a month ago.  The only thing that I liked about the city was the climate and geography and that was it.  The city is too dependant on cars, there are far too many strip malls, the density is terrible, and I really didn't enjoy all the smut and numerous propositions for sex. 

 

What happens in Vegas should stay in Vegas.

 

 

unfortunately, I have to admit, the outlet malls in Vegas are quite good.  The housing sucks.  But I'm not a "new build" house lover anyway!  Give me a crib built before 1950, with a separate livingroom and dining room.

I went to Vegas about a month ago.  The only thing that I liked about the city was the climate and geography and that was it.  The city is too dependant on cars, there are far too many strip malls, the density is terrible, and I really didn't enjoy all the smut and numerous propositions for sex. 

 

What happens in Vegas should stay in Vegas.

 

Yes, and by the sounds of it, you're not the type of person Vegas was built on.  Getting around the strip is pretty cab free.  I don't know how many times I've been to Vegas but I do know I've never seen a strip mall and the cab rides I've taken (from the strip to The Palms, Rio, Hard Rock, etc) are less than 5 minutes.

 

Eventually, industry developed around tourism and attracted more traditional white and blue collar workers.  I've known several people who moved to Vegas for non-tourism related jobs and outside of when people visited, never saw the strip and everything "Vegas" is known for.  Plus, like Phoenix, its become a big retirement community with self contained communities with golf courses, community centers, etc. 

 

It's not for everyone, but it has good weather and a niche that I don't see ever failing (gambling).

 

Good weather is a relative statement.  I'd rather not do 110 degree heat without enough rain to support verdant plant life.

If you've never seen a strip mall in Vegas, you must've spent the whole time in a casino.

 

Yes, the glitz and and gambling are the draws of Vegas, attracting new growth and sprawl. But I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what has truly made Vegas possible:

 

Federal subsidies.

 

Seicer touched on it with the comment about draining the Colorado River Basin to the extent that a massive watershed dries up in Mexico. But federal dollars -- collected from Ohio and other Rust Belt states -- built the grand dams and highways and airports and rural electrification and all the other things that made it possible to build an impossible metropolis in a desert.

Not to mention the rest of the sunbelt!

If you've never seen a strip mall in Vegas, you must've spent the whole time in a casino.

 

That was my point.  People don't go to Vegas to check out the strip malls, nor did it build billion dollar resort hotel & casinos off of strip mall revenues.

^yes but the people who actually live there ...

That was my point.  People don't go to Vegas to check out the strip malls

 

Speak for yourself!    :wink:  The majority of visitors to Vegas don't...... 

Good weather is a relative statement.  I'd rather not do 110 degree heat without enough rain to support verdant plant life.

 

I don't know if "relative" is the right answer.  What you describe is my dream weather in many ways.  If it never got below 45, I never saw a cactus and all I saw for plants were agave, aloe and cacti, I'd be a happy, happy person.

I really don't think that Vegas will be "Vegas" in a few decades.

 

I kind of agree.  I think Vegas is losing its cool a little bit  I still like going there, but at some point in the next 10 - 20 years, I could see it going back to its mid-90's low point.  Remember, it wasn't that long ago the Vegas resorts were trying to become kid-friendly and attract families.  Eventually, the shine will wear off a little, I think and it won't be the hip place for vacation anymore.  Instead of getting the 21-30 crowd, it will be more of the 45-55 crowd.  Maybe that won't change their economy too much, but I think the perception will change.

^^They STILL are trying to convey a more family oriented and kid friendly image...and they are doing quite well with it. Vegas is also currently the 5th most visited city in the US and 48th most visited city in the world. So I highly doubt that is going to die in just 20 years fellas. I hate to burst your bubbles, but this is not a suburban shopping center fighting with other suburban shopping centers. This is a unique metro that offers something no other metro in the US can compete with.

 

As for the 20 projects dropped in 2 years, well when you build 300+ projects in those same 2 years, 20 really doesn't sound so bad anymore. In 2007, there was actually a shortage of construction workers...http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2007/02/19/news/iq_12582944.txt, so if you are having trouble finding construction work in Vegas, you are not looking hard enough.

I still think the trickle down affect in the economy, will hurt vegas, a city that relies on DISPOSABLE INCOME.

They should pass out brochures to all the rich Arabs!!

I still think the trickle down affect in the economy, will hurt vegas, a city that relies on DISPOSABLE INCOME.

 

I understand what you are saying, but people are going to take vacations nonetheless. so I don't think it will effect them anymore than any other tourists destination. Everyone's saying oil prices will kill them. Well you kinda have to fly or drive ANYWHERE you go these days...not just Vegas. So if Vegas goes down because of oil prices, I would think everyone else would be affected too.

I understand what you are saying, but people are going to take vacations nonetheless. so I don't think it will effect them anymore than any other tourists destination. Everyone's saying oil prices will kill them. Well you kinda have to fly or drive ANYWHERE you go these days...not just Vegas. So if Vegas goes down because of oil prices, I would think everyone else would be affected too.

 

yes, but vegas has one industry.  After 9/11, the city was hurting big time, it's only been since '06 they recovered from the overbuilding of hotel rooms.  I mean come on, you can get a massive suite in vegas for 99 dollars at a decent hotel.  Its nuts.

That's a good reason to GO to Las Vegas!

The hotel rooms are probably cheaper since you spend so much money in the casinos (which happen to be built into the hotel). Not sure but it makes sense.

Federal subsidies.

 

Seicer touched on it with the comment about draining the Colorado River Basin to the extent that a massive watershed dries up in Mexico. But federal dollars -- collected from Ohio and other Rust Belt states -- built the grand dams and highways and airports and rural electrification and all the other things that made it possible to build an impossible metropolis in a desert.

 

If I recall right Vegas gambling got started as it was the party town for the Hoover Dam workforce...the work camp was "dry" or something so they went to Vegas on their weekends.

 

I think another thing was some sort of defense plan in nearby Henderson, which relied on Hoover Dam power.

 

Another interesting fact is that Vegas has a limit on its growth as the land aroud the city is owned by the Feds...BLM...and I think an Indian tribe?  So for the city to grow BLM must sell off some land (which makes me thing land development in Vegas must be a real racket)

 

 

 

 

Diminishing resources are a bitch.

 

And that is the biggest problem that will hit Las Vegas and many other Desert Cities in the next 10 years. Water is a commodity that in Ohio can be taken for granted, but in a place like Vegas the growth rate of the city is extremely dependent on the consumption and recharge rates of water in the area. With an arid climate like Vegas, it will be only a matter of time before the consumption rate of Vegas / any other desert city completely overwhelms the recharge rate. Will it kill the growth of Las Vegas? Maybe, maybe not, but when the price of water in Vegas costs an inordinate amount of money relative to other cities one will have to wonder what it means for Sin City.

“Investors should always remember that water flows toward money—it’s not different than oil or electricity. The booming cities of the west will not ‘run dry’ no matter how complex the water situation becomes.” - Grady Gammage

Civil war would happen before the water of the Great Lakes is allowed to be sold en masse to places like Vegas.

^^^That sounds strangely similar to Venezuela or a few mid-East countries and their oil supply.  :argue:

Las Vegas is the epitome of everything that's wrong with America.

Another interesting fact is that Vegas has a limit on its growth as the land aroud the city is owned by the Feds...BLM...and I think an Indian tribe?   So for the city to grow BLM must sell off some land (which makes me thing land development in Vegas must be a real racket)

 

It's very interesting to look at Las Vegas in Google Maps.  Talk about a hard edge to urban growth!  There is an edge to the city.  On one side it is totally built up, the other completely undeveloped.  It is like that all the way around the city.  It's more clearly defined than most European cities.

Federal subsidies.

 

Seicer touched on it with the comment about draining the Colorado River Basin to the extent that a massive watershed dries up in Mexico. But federal dollars -- collected from Ohio and other Rust Belt states -- built the grand dams and highways and airports and rural electrification and all the other things that made it possible to build an impossible metropolis in a desert.

 

If I recall right Vegas gambling got started as it was the party town for the Hoover Dam workforce...the work camp was "dry" or something so they went to Vegas on their weekends.

 

I think another thing was some sort of defense plan in nearby Henderson, which relied on Hoover Dam power.

 

Another interesting fact is that Vegas has a limit on its growth as the land aroud the city is owned by the Feds...BLM...and I think an Indian tribe?  So for the city to grow BLM must sell off some land (which makes me thing land development in Vegas must be a real racket)

 

 

 

 

 

Vegas already is getting in on some of that federal land, as this NYTimes story shows:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/us/03lands.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&adxnnl=1&ref=us&adxnnlx=1196698485-qhv2exoJZ7O7bK9SiEH1yw&oref=slogin

 

More federal subsidies. True, water will follow money, but only up to a point. At a time of global-warming fears, it will be harder to spend federal dollars (and it can't possibly be done without federal dollars) to take more water from other places and pump it to an unsustainable desert megalopolis.

I wonder if some of the radioactive material from the containers they buried in Nevada could get into the water supply.

>If I recall right Vegas gambling got started as it was the party town for the Hoover Dam workforce...the work camp was "dry" or something so they went to Vegas on their weekends.

 

My grandfather drove through Las Vegas in 1946 after he was discharged from the army, there were only two casinos at that time and about 10 stop lights.  He drove Rt. 66 soon after it was paved and years before Jack Kerouac wrote his book and 20 years before Ed Ruscha took a photo of every gas station.  He didn't have much to say about it.   

 

The main reason Las Vegas grew larger than Reno is because of its proximity to Los Angeles which obviously has a much larger population than the Bay Area.  A huge chunk of Las Vegas's business has always been from people taking holiday weekends from LA in the way Chicagoans used to go gamble on the weekends in French Lick, Indiana or the east coast cities went to Atlantic City. 

 

The recent growth has been fueled by the cheap trucking from Las Vegas to LA.  For decades trucks ran back empty and so in the 90's businesses started locating in Las Vegas because they could ship to LA for cheaper than if they were actually in LA. 

 

Topic:  how does Vegas so it?

 

Shortest answer possible:  Money.

 

I'm sure many of you think creating an Island in the middle of the ocean in a desert climate is completely unsustainable as well, but they are doing it anyway.  Anything is sustainable when you have unlimited funds.  They say birth, death, and taxes are the only things you can count on...I'd be willing to throw "vices" into the mix as well and Vegas dominates the vice market.  Even in down years, its not like the place was on hard times.

I'd say that its proximity to California has greatly helped Vegas to take off.

 

edit: I see that Jmeck just said the same thing.