take a look at the design review page on the city planning commission's website. by the way, i copied every single word that referred to Stonebridge. that's all it says.

Photos from last Friday morning:

 

 

 

 

 

That street/pedestrian/building/relationship really does suck

 

Nice, I just wish it was TALLER!

Viaduct perspective:

 

 

Am I the only person who would not want a unit that sits DIRECTLY next to the viaduct? Who would want to pay that kind of money to see a stone wall out of their window?

 

Ask those in New York who pay even more to look out their windows at a brick wall. If those units at Stonebridge sell, then the center city housing market is better than many think -- and Price and Corna are geniuses. If they don't sell at the asking price, then Price and Corna took a gamble that didn't pay off. Live and learn.

Ask those in New York who pay even more to look out their windows at a brick wall. If those units at Stonebridge sell, then the center city housing market is better than many think -- and Price and Corna are geniuses. If they don't sell at the asking price, then Price and Corna took a gamble that didn't pay off. Live and learn.

 

I suppose I can see them selling. The pricing structure at the tower seemed to vary depending on things like the view. Heck, my view in the tower isn't the best...I get to look at the memorial bridge (and see some crazy people!).

Ask those in New York who pay even more to look out their windows at a brick wall. If those units at Stonebridge sell, then the center city housing market is better than many think -- and Price and Corna are geniuses. If they don't sell at the asking price, then Price and Corna took a gamble that didn't pay off. Live and learn.

 

I suppose I can see them selling. The pricing structure at the tower seemed to vary depending on things like the view. Heck, my view in the tower isn't the best...I get to look at the memorial bridge (and see some crazy people!).

 

hey, i'm one of those crazy people who jog across that bridge! 

 

It will be interesting to see how much convenience retail that they can get down there with the current housing.  If they can get a Constantino's style market down there and some pub, I can could see a lot more people taking a look at this place. Hell, it seems to be doing pretty well as is. 

Ask those in New York who pay even more to look out their windows at a brick wall. If those units at Stonebridge sell, then the center city housing market is better than many think -- and Price and Corna are geniuses. If they don't sell at the asking price, then Price and Corna took a gamble that didn't pay off. Live and learn.

 

I suppose I can see them selling. The pricing structure at the tower seemed to vary depending on things like the view. Heck, my view in the tower isn't the best...I get to look at the memorial bridge (and see some crazy people!).

 

hey, i'm one of those crazy people who jog across that bridge! 

 

It will be interesting to see how much convenience retail that they can get down there with the current housing.  If they can get a Constantino's style market down there and some pub, I can could see a lot more people taking a look at this place. Hell, it seems to be doing pretty well as is. 

 

Haha, you're not the guy that dances across the bridge, are you?

 

I would love a Constantino's kinda place there...I am in that place all of the time.

Ask those in New York who pay even more to look out their windows at a brick wall. If those units at Stonebridge sell, then the center city housing market is better than many think -- and Price and Corna are geniuses. If they don't sell at the asking price, then Price and Corna took a gamble that didn't pay off. Live and learn.

 

During the Time Warner Cable move to Cleveland, many people looked at apartment and commented on the Size and "how cheap" they are.  I like that building alot. 

 

The ground floor accessibility may be there for a reason, has anyone asked the developer/architect why its built with no ground floor retail??  If so what is the reason?

Yes, because the area doesn't have the critical mass yet to support lining the ground floors with retail. But where I differ with them is that the buildings have zero street presence. There isn't even a bright glassy lobby, a leasable office space, a little coffee shop/sidewalk cafe at the corner, or anything along those lines. I also question whether they have enough experience with urban projects to understand the importance of street presence. I only hope the building was designed in such a way that ground floor uses can be added at a later time.

 

As for the issue of amending their Planned Unit Development plan (PUD Plan Amendment: Stonebridge Towers, 2222 Detroit Avenue, garage plan).... This was discussed Friday at Planning Commission. Stonebridge built that garage too small. Parking spaces are too narrow and there's not enough room to manuever medium to large-size cars in it. If I remember the number right, 14 tenants have filed suit against Stonebridge regarding the parking situation because their cars were damaged (read: dented). Most if not all of those tenants agreed to become tenants before the garage was finished, and were told by the developer the parking garage would suit their needs.

 

So the developer is asking to have the number of spaces reduced and will seek to replace the lost spaces elsewhere.

ah, just downsize from the Hummer to a civic ;)

Yes, because the area doesn't have the critical mass yet to support lining the ground floors with retail. But where I differ with them is that the buildings have zero street presence. There isn't even a bright glassy lobby, a leasable office space, a little coffee shop/sidewalk cafe at the corner, or anything along those lines. I also question whether they have enough experience with urban projects to understand the importance of street presence. I only hope the building was designed in such a way that ground floor uses can be added at a later time.

 

 

I didnt realize those building dont have lobbies.  How the hell do they get in?  I would think a dry cleaner or drug store /newstand, beverage store, hardware store, bank or (banking center with various banks ATMs), blockbuster, etc., could fit in down there  :wtf:

Price has to stop with the groundfloor nothingness.  Imagine an entire neighborhood with no windows or entrances on the first floor. This would look like a twilight zone episode.

It is my understanding that the Carnival portion of the building will have the retail...last summer I met someone who had discussed putting a coffee shop and gourmet carry out food place...sort of like those Wolfgang Puck like places you see in in NYC and London, Pret-a-something . good lord the names are slipping my mind. the carnival side of the building is the "street level" entrance, and most of the photos are taken from what could be considered the back of the building.

 

The viaduct entrance (3rd floor) of building 4 is what many people  concider the main entrance. it does have a sales and leasing office and well as (a tackily decorated) lobby, meeting area, and gym. I think the presence is great, esp in summer months where you can get a festive atmosphere of people hanging out on the balconies and interacting with the people walking around below. There is also  a smaller lobby on the first floor.

 

I am beginning to think a significant challenge is going to be security...how to have the retail and general public in one part of the building and shut off the rest for the security of residents. Trust me its going to be a problem, since they can't even prevent thefts in building 4 which is not open to the public unless buzzed in.

 

I am beginning to think a significant challenge is going to be security...how to have the retail and general public in one part of the building and shut off the rest for the security of residents. Trust me its going to be a problem, since they can't even prevent thefts in building 4 which is not open to the public unless buzzed in.

 

We'll in every building ive seen with retail at the lower level and resident entrances, there is usually a door man.  The condo owners might have to vote for having secured entrances as well as door men to help with packages/deliveries and such.

 

ive been too there has been a door man or secured lobby so those residents wont have a problem, but based on the pictures ive seen, via urban ohio, the area seems that it would stay pretty bare, because there are no windows or stores to draw potential retail customers

Regarding the retail presence at Stonebridge, this is from my article posted on Page 15 of this thread....

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sun/westsidesunnews/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1168537995195200.xml&coll=3

 

An 11-story, 109-unit Stonebridge Plaza condominium tower could be ready for occupancy as early as late March [edit: Price is now saying May]. Next to it is Stonebridge Square, in the former Cantina del Rio restaurant, which will add 30,000 square feet of retail and offices this summer. The former restaurant was built as a machine shop in 1870.

 

Stonebridge's co-developer Bob Corna said leasing is "95 percent complete" for Stonebridge Square. The ground floor of the sky-lit plaza will feature a coffee shop, delicatessen, family-style restaurant and a mini maket. Corna's partner in the project is Doug Price of K&D Corp.

Having a few ground floor retail or office tenants would do wonders for the "eyes on the street" in this growing neighborhood and could help to reduce theft, vandalism, etc. and improve safety over all.  If there's no accommodation made for this throughout the development, especially on the Flats level, the situation will be that much more likely to remain the same, regardless of the many hundred residents living upstairs.

how many residents are down there now? looks like stonebridge plaza condo tower will add around 200, no? what might the total be in future phases?

 

i wonder if there are enough tenants for more commercial groundfloor presence than is planned for stonebridge plaza?

Having a few ground floor retail or office tenants would do wonders for the "eyes on the street" in this growing neighborhood and could help to reduce theft, vandalism, etc. and improve safety over all.  If there's no accommodation made for this throughout the development, especially on the Flats level, the situation will be that much more likely to remain the same, regardless of the many hundred residents living upstairs.

an excellent point for sure!

Peabody, its good to have you back. We haven't heard much from you lately.

Can somebody get creative and photoshop some street level retail into this building!!!!!

 

Or even just some windows with art in them.

 

Anything other than that ugly foundation/parking garage.

Anything other than that ugly foundation/parking garage.

 

I believe its called 'post-brutalism'.

Viaduct perspective:

 

 

Am I the only person who would not want a unit that sits DIRECTLY next to the viaduct? Who would want to pay that kind of money to see a stone wall out of their window?

 

You're images are not visible.

On a side note, I turned on the TV last night and saw channel 5 doing an interview with the owner of one of the bars on the east bank. She was totally pissed, talking about all the "cookie cutter" designs and plans they had for the flats. It said wolstein was starting demolition of buildings next week. Go flats!

 

(edited original post after reading the east bank thread)

^well, it already has in a way. I assume you've read about Stonebridge's master plan.

 

How can the lady complain about the cookie cutter designs when the architectural renderings haven't been released or finalized yet?

^well, it already has in a way. I assume you've read about Stonebridge's master plan.

 

How can the lady complain about the cookie cutter designs when the architectural renderings haven't been released or finalized yet?

 

I don't know, but she was really, really upset! and yes I've read all about stonebridge... it's just exciting to see new things happening every day.

"owner of one of the bars on the east bank. She was totally pissed, talking about all the "cookie cutter" designs and plans they had for the flats."

 

Riiight... like the East Bank is currently a bevy of beautiful or innovative architecture. She's just p!ssy because of the ED ruling.

That's exactly what it was... except I only caught half of the segment, so I didn't understand exactly what was going on. did anybody else see this?

^well, it already has in a way. I assume you've read about Stonebridge's master plan.

 

How can the lady complain about the cookie cutter designs when the architectural renderings haven't been released or finalized yet?

 

I don't know, but she was really, really upset! and yes I've read all about stonebridge... it's just exciting to see new things happening every day.

 

She has a right to be angry. Those bland cinderblock boxes that block off views of the river are very, um, beautiful.

To be fair, Stonebridge 5 will have some street presence, at least on the Centre Street side. That's where the shell of the old Cantina building is, and from what I understand it will house a coffee shop.

To be fair, Stonebridge 5 will have some street presence, at least on the Centre Street side. That's where the shell of the old Cantina building is, and from what I understand it will house a coffee shop.

 

I hope so! that's what they told me when I bought one of the new units!

It would be very cool if they could establish a first floor retail/entertainment presence all along Centre Street as they build out their plan. I'd be great to see a lot of pedestrian traffic along that important gateway street. Add some good pedestrian lighting, street furniture, etc.

Has anyone stopped by and checked it out lately? The ground level doesn't seem to be as bad as everybody makes it out to be. I saw they had installed some nice glass block in the brick work. I'm not saying it couldn't be better... it just seems a lot better in person than it looks in the pictures.

 

Also, I got a chance to drive past the pinnacle condos and saw their pedestrain-level parking garage. eww. Awesome location, though.

Yes, ewww, but that garage was already there and they built on top of it.  When you're starting fresh, you should definitely have more foresight than that!  Especially if you're trying to establish your development as part of a "neighborhood."  Glass block = ewwww.  That stuff is for showers and basements.

haha.... you're right... but I still think it's better than just bricks.

Yes, ewww, but that garage was already there and they built on top of it.  When you're starting fresh, you should definitely have more foresight than that!  Especially if you're trying to establish your development as part of a "neighborhood."  Glass block = ewwww.  That stuff is for showers and basements.

 

Maybe the first floor is going to be a community bath house?? ;)

"Can somebody get creative and photoshop some street level retail into this building!!!!!"

 

Sorry it's so rough - anyhoo, I tried to keep the parking entrance in the same spot and the retail would be "bumped out" away from the garage:

Nice job. I'd like to send that to Bob Corna (unless Peabody beats me to it!).

I don't know if it would be an option, but maybe make the second floor parking (but retain the facade so it blends in) to provide a "buffer" for the first residential floor units.  That would also free up space for the retail so they could have more contiguous footage on one level. Oh and I added one last retail tenant who would be a great fit for that area on the right :-)

"Also, I got a chance to drive past the pinnacle condos and saw their pedestrain-level parking garage."

 

Keep in mind that the Pinnacle parking garage was built back in the 1980s (or earlier). I'm sure when it was built, they hadn't planned on constructing an all-glass condo tower decades down the road.

I don't know if it would be an option, but maybe make the second floor parking (but retain the facade so it blends in) to provide a "buffer" for the first residential floor units.  That would also free up space for the retail so they could have more contiguous footage on one level. Oh and I added one last retail tenant who would be a great fit for that area on the right :-)

 

Now all you need is some peds to show the street life it would create. But do you really want the UrbanOhio store adjacent to the Great Lakes beer cafe? That might be a dangerous temptation....

I'd prefer to have the Great Lakes cafe *IN* the UO store :lol: :drunk:

What are we selling in the UO store?

Bumper stickers, shot glasses, and beer taps. I think we'd do well! :lol:

Maybe their could be a little Cyber Cafe' for members only. This way we can, uh... talk with... each other.

U would do excellent.  i hope u guys are not being fecicious.  i went to  back to Cleveland last week and noticed all the positives that were going on. but  I noticed the young entrepeneurial presence is what is really missing.  The ENERGY!!!!!!!  it is there waiting to come out.  I hope u guys really have a store to create an ambiance a vison amd movement. Good Luck Also I feel the wealth of knowledge, vison, networking and passion the Ohio Urban dot comers could be a powerful coalition that Mayors and council would really have to court for their support if organized effectively.

Thanks elevate, I have to say that it's been a treat to see the forum grow over the years - and there are quite a few people who are "higher up" that view the threads (if not outright participate). If it ever got to a point where some kind of brick-and-mortar presence became reality, I'd be tickled pink. I can definitely say that the forum has opened lines of communication that didn't use to exist. Before, we might have known OF someone involved in a particular project - but now, it's not uncommon that said persons are here on the forum.

 

"Maybe their could be a little Cyber Cafe' for members only. This way we can, uh... talk with... each other."

 

Actually - how about a VIP lounge along the lines of the Velvet Tango Room? :)

Actually - how about a VIP lounge along the lines of the Velvet Tango Room?

 

Ok now you can definitely count me in.  Ramos Gin Fizz please......  :-P

I don't know if it would be an option, but maybe make the second floor parking (but retain the facade so it blends in) to provide a "buffer" for the first residential floor units.  That would also free up space for the retail so they could have more contiguous footage on one level. Oh and I added one last retail tenant who would be a great fit for that area on the right :-)

 

hell, if detroit can get it right:

 

"Can somebody get creative and photoshop some street level retail into this building!!!!!"

 

Sorry it's so rough - anyhoo, I tried to keep the parking entrance in the same spot and the retail would be "bumped out" away from the garage:

Oh Jeez, now I really would not leave the "zone"--my 3.5 (gotta make it to Asia Town) mile radious around city center