I’m going to go ahead and say it: the caps are a pipe dream. The way to connect downtown to the Banks is redevelop buildings like this along Third Street with active uses. This particular building could get a tall Riverfront-facing modern addition in its current parking lot. Would be visible on any postcard picture of Cincinnati: 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/12/former-pogues-service-building-listed-for-sale.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search

6 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

I’m going to go ahead and say it: the caps are a pipe dream. The way to connect downtown to the Banks is redevelop buildings like this along Third Street with active uses. This particular building could get a tall Riverfront-facing modern addition in its current parking lot. Would be visible on any postcard picture of Cincinnati: 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/12/former-pogues-service-building-listed-for-sale.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search

Except this line about the sale of the building and attached lot, “The views of the riverfront will probably never be obstructed,”

12 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Except this line about the sale of the building and attached lot, “The views of the riverfront will probably never be obstructed,”

Yes I think the parking lot to the south of the building is part of the property. That’s where they should build an addition facing Third Street. Everything to the south of the property at the banks would be low-rise, and the caps, if they are ever built, are limited to 4 stories but would probably be 0 or 1 stories 

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by thebillshark

Agreed, especially considering the scar from a previous 5-6 story building that obviously used to sit on that corner, an addition of that height would be great. If it's converted to hotel or residential as mentioned the addition could contain the parking, amenities, pool deck etc that are hard to fit into an existing structure while converting the entire existing structure to rooms/apartments. 

I was recently in Phoenix and checked out their highway cap in person. Most of their cap is a simple, vanilla park, but it is still quite nice. I liked the idea of putting buildings over FWW, but even a simple grassy park would be a huge improvement over the current situation.

 

The big difference is that Phoenix's cap is one long park, while Cincinnati's would be 4 individual blocks broken up with north-south streets.

16 hours ago, taestell said:

I was recently in Phoenix and checked out their highway cap in person. Most of their cap is a simple, vanilla park, but it is still quite nice. I liked the idea of putting buildings over FWW, but even a simple grassy park would be a huge improvement over the current situation.

 

The big difference is that Phoenix's cap is one long park, while Cincinnati's would be 4 individual blocks broken up with north-south streets.

Even the Short North style caps over just Walnut would make a difference 

Meanwhile in Washington, caps are being incorporated into almost every urban highway construction project:

 

 

I thought I saw that infrastructure bill dollars could fund these projects. 

13 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I thought I saw that infrastructure bill dollars could fund these projects. 

IIRC, a program was created called "Reconnecting Communities" and it was slashed from a proposed $20 billion down to just $1 billion.

 

For comparison, the caps above 670 in Columbus along High Street costed $7.8 million and created 25,500 square foot of retail space. So $1 billion isn't goin to go far.

On the extreme end, the proposed, and locally approved, removal of 1.4 miles of I-81 through Syracuse is estimated to cost $2.2 billion.

2 hours ago, Dev said:

IIRC, a program was created called "Reconnecting Communities" and it was slashed from a proposed $20 billion down to just $1 billion.

 

For comparison, the caps above 670 in Columbus along High Street costed $7.8 million and created 25,500 square foot of retail space. So $1 billion isn't goin to go far.

On the extreme end, the proposed, and locally approved, removal of 1.4 miles of I-81 through Syracuse is estimated to cost $2.2 billion.

Has there been a revised cost of putting the cover over FWW? I thought I saw it would cost like $20 million total but that was a long time ago. .

3 hours ago, Dev said:

 

 

For comparison, the caps above 670 in Columbus along High Street 

Yeah, the Columbus cap is essentially a widened bridge with double-loaded retail. Quite different than what I would hope FWW would be. Did wonders for High Street, though.

59 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Has there been a revised cost of putting the cover over FWW? I thought I saw it would cost like $20 million total but that was a long time ago. .

I wondered the same and didn't find anything. I was under the impression that no one has really gotten that far in the process to even have a ballpark figure. It seem like one of those ideas that gets tossed around with no follow-through at all.

3 hours ago, Dev said:

For comparison, the caps above 670 in Columbus along High Street costed $7.8 million

 

I just took a look at the High Street caps on Google Maps... and was surprised/confused by the triangular concrete caps at the neaby intersection of Park/Goodale. When were those triangular caps (shown in red below) added and for what purpose? Are those spaces ever used for anything? 

 

670 got a slight reconfiguration pass about (15?) years ago. They're to support the roads and intersection that straddle the highway. They do get used for bike parking, seating, booth space etc. for comfest, greek fest, etc. I can't remember what it looked like before that.

They're otherwise unsightly. I taught an arch studio at OSU years ago where we put residential on them. It was a challenge.

Edited November 17, 20213 yr by zsnyder

1 hour ago, zsnyder said:

They're to support the roads and intersection that straddle the highway. They do get used for bike parking, seating, booth space etc. for comfest, greek fest, etc. I can't remember what it looked like before that.

that makes sense, with the road configuration, it is hard to do that without supports in the middle of the highway lanes.

On 11/17/2021 at 2:53 PM, jwulsin said:

 

I just took a look at the High Street caps on Google Maps... and was surprised/confused by the triangular concrete caps at the neaby intersection of Park/Goodale. When were those triangular caps (shown in red below) added and for what purpose? Are those spaces ever used for anything? 

 

They are less triangles and more tubes. I would imagine it is for ease of construction. 

TUNNEL VISION

After 20 years, a proposal to build decks over Fort Washington Way is finally catching the community’s attention. Here’s how it could transform downtown.

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Sep 30, 2022

 

 

Cincinnati almost did not have the chance to put caps on Fort Washington Way, the final piece needed to cover the massive freeway trench and finally reconnect downtown to the Ohio River.

 

More than two decades ago, the region’s governments were on the brink of missing a deadline to approve installation of pylons that could hold up huge decks, allowing the city or a developer to construct a park or buildings on top. As usual, money, where to find it and whether stakeholders could cooperate long enough to secure it, was at issue.

 

The late, legendary financier Carl Lindner Jr., Western & Southern CEO John Barrett and other Cincinnati Business Committee members provided $2 million of the needed $10 million. The private sector had skin in the game. It would be the beginning of two decades worth of collaboration as the region’s urban core was revitalized.

 

MORE

 

Western & Southern CEO on Fort Washington Way decks as a home for tennis

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Sep 30, 2022

 

Cincinnati business and civic leaders are chasing federal funds to evaluate how to best build decks over Fort Washington Way that could reconnect downtown to the Ohio River, bringing with them new civic spaces and opportunity for development.

 

But Western & Southern CEO John Barrett sees another potential use for the Fort Washington Way decks.

 

MORE

 

 

I'm a big proponent of capping the highway with extremely versatile parks space - pretty much exactly the designs shown in the first Business Courier article. This would activate downtown in a way that a small commercial building just couldn't do. The options are limitless, and adding temporary tennis courts during the tournament is a great example of what could be done.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, ryanlammi said:

I'm a big proponent of capping the highway with extremely versatile parks space - pretty much exactly the designs shown in the first Business Courier article. This would activate downtown in a way that a small commercial building just couldn't do. The options are limitless, and adding temporary tennis courts during the tournament is a great example of what could be done.

 

 

 

 

Biggest take away from the article, "Ohio Department of Transportation, which owns the air rights above the highway. That’s another reason to consider a park there – ODOT could want full, fair-market value for the land that would be created if it is not for a public purpose." 

In other words, it will not be commercial, buildable space because then ODOT will have their hand out for even more cash. Keep it a public park space and they walk away...

This would be amazing for festivals and events and I hope momentum builds to actually get this done.  I'm normally all for getting rid of streets, but I don't like the option of closing Vine street permanantly between the caps. I think it should be converted to two way and have the ability to be closed off for events, but Vine street is too important of a north/south connector to close off permanently.

 

The second negative is that the overall site plan still shows 2nd and 3rd with 4+ travel lanes. Obviously these minutia will be discussed if/when the project happens, but this project needs to coincide with road diets on 2nd and 3rd streets because the idea of people playing kickball on the park while cars drive 50 mph on either side without even street parking as a barrier is crazy. 

14 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

I'm a big proponent of capping the highway with extremely versatile parks space -

I've always wished for mid-rises that carry the fabric to the river, but I'm coming around to this pov.
Oktoberfest would explode in this space, and the way it leaks into more programmed park space along the river is a great complement. 
 

On 9/30/2022 at 10:59 AM, ucgrady said:

Vine street is too important of a north/south connector to close off permanently.

Too important to whom??? Where are they going, where are they coming from, where are they going and what modes are using?

The concept of a continuous surface instead of needing to have gaps in the decking is news and a big deal.

 

Here are some additional ideas for this concept:

 

instead of the hardscape areas at each end, build one or both (with rooftop access:)

 

Festhaus: a large indoor area with air conditioning and seating and restrooms to use during events 

 

Event Center: for weddings etc. 

 

additional Crazy idea: a “very high line” elevated 10 or 15 stories up in the air above the decks consisting of walking and running paths, plazas and observation decks. Perhaps with connections to nearby buildings. Basically create top-of-the-Ferris-wheel like views. Would be cool being able to look all the way up Race, Vine, Walnut from that perspective and down to the river

On 10/1/2022 at 11:49 AM, Dev said:

Too important to whom??? Where are they going, where are they coming from, where are they going and what modes are using?

I'm biased as a Covingtonian, but all the northbound travelers from the Roebling bridge and Banks in general, making their way on to Fountain square, downtown and even OTR and beyond. Whether cars, the Southbank Shuttle or even bicyclists, that's the one northbound connection for the four blocks between Elm/Main unless we start converting more blocks to two way travel, which I'd be down for, but Walnut and Main are stuck as one ways due to the streetcar.

14 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I'm biased as a Covingtonian, but all the northbound travelers from the Roebling bridge and Banks in general, making their way on to Fountain square, downtown and even OTR and beyond. Whether cars, the Southbank Shuttle or even bicyclists, that's the one northbound connection for the four blocks between Elm/Main unless we start converting more blocks to two way travel, which I'd be down for, but Walnut and Main are stuck as one ways due to the streetcar.

I really doubt that closing that one block of Vine to cars, is going to add any significant trip time for those travelers. In any case, people should not being using Roebling if they are just going to cut through the Banks. It is slowly becoming a superblock and we should be supporting anything that moves it in that direction.

I also doubt that they would close it to busses and bikes but I guess that is what the public engagement sessions can show. Hopefully something similar to what the DGF is promoting for Main Street will happen before this process starts in earnest, so more people can see what a "closed" street can actually look like.

Welp, scrap all those other cool ideas, John Barrett wants the FWW caps now. This is the second project he has tried to hijack for moving tennis out of Mason (the slimmed down Brent Spence Replacement plan being the first). Come up with your own plan John!  https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/09/30/john-barrett-on-fort-washington-way-decks.html

17 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Welp, scrap all those other cool ideas, John Barrett wants the FWW caps now. This is the second project he has tried to hijack for moving tennis out of Mason (the slimmed down Brent Spence Replacement plan being the first). Come up with your own plan John!  https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/09/30/john-barrett-on-fort-washington-way-decks.html

I mean, he is largely responsible for the caps even being possible, as W&S donated funds to allow the piers to be built. Not that it should mean he gets final say on what gets built here, but that's gotta count for something. At any rate:

Quote

The land, he believes, could be turned temporarily into tennis courts for smaller matches, with the main event occurring at a yet-to-be-planned or funded arena with a retractable roof.

Would be really cool to have a world class event like that right in the heart of downtown, especially if it doesn't negatively affect the space for the rest of the year. I think it's good that a business leader in the community with as much sway as him (and usually conventional/conservative views on urban form) is supporting projects like this and Bridge Forward, both verbally and financially.

Yeah, I think his comments are more of a "yes and we could" rather than an "instead" suggestion. Getting buy in from big business leaders will make it much more likely to happen.

32 minutes ago, dnymck said:

I mean, he is largely responsible for the caps even being possible, as W&S donated funds to allow the piers to be built. Not that it should mean he gets final say on what gets built here, but that's gotta count for something. At any rate:

Would be really cool to have a world class event like that right in the heart of downtown, especially if it doesn't negatively affect the space for the rest of the year. I think it's good that a business leader in the community with as much sway as him (and usually conventional/conservative views on urban form) is supporting projects like this and Bridge Forward, both verbally and financially.

I remember City council asking taxpayers for additional funds for the highway caps (piers for future caps), i could be wrong but i don't remember any other groups donating at the time. Good on them if they did give some, but i don't want to give them any credit if they 100 percent did not. Advocating and donating are different things. I'm glad they are thinking of additional uses, but they have plenty of money to come up with their own plan and make it happen. Dont just tag on to something that others are working on already even if it is temporary.  They could instead say, We support the (X project) so much that we want to be the first to buy into it by committing X amount to buy land and make it happen.

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 20222 yr by SleepyLeroy
changed caps to piers for future caps

12 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said:

I remember City council asking taxpayers for additional funds for the highway caps (piers for future caps), i could be wrong but i don't remember any other groups donating at the time. Good on them if they did give some, but i don't want to give them any credit if they 100 percent did not. Advocating and donating are different things. I'm glad they are thinking of additional uses, but they have plenty of money to come up with their own plan and make it happen. Dont just tag on to something that others are working on already even if it is temporary.  They could instead say, We support the (X project) so much that we want to be the first to buy into it by committing X amount to buy land and make it happen.

 

 

Here's what was said in the other, longer article about the proposed caps: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/09/30/fort-washington-way-decks-vision.html

Quote

More than two decades ago, the region’s governments were on the brink of missing a deadline to approve installation of pylons that could hold up huge decks, allowing the city or a developer to construct a park or buildings on top. As usual, money, where to find it and whether stakeholders could cooperate long enough to secure it, was at issue.

 

The late, legendary financier Carl Lindner Jr., Western & Southern CEO John Barrett and other Cincinnati Business Committee members provided $2 million of the needed $10 million. The private sector had skin in the game. It would be the beginning of two decades worth of collaboration as the region’s urban core was revitalized.

 

“(Then-Mayor) Charlie Luken called me and he called Carl Lindner, and said ‘now is the one and only chance we’ve got. Once we build the new Fort Washington Way, it’ll be too late,’” Barrett recalled. “We collected the money relatively quickly. (We said) ‘It’s the right thing to do. Let’s do it.’”

 

Thanks for the info, some day I'll have the extra monthly info to support all the good media around here, but Business Courier is a bit pricier than some of the others.

1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

 

Here's what was said in the other, longer article about the proposed caps: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/09/30/fort-washington-way-decks-vision.html

 

 

15 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Thanks for the info, some day I'll have the extra monthly info to support all the good media around here, but Business Courier is a bit pricier than some of the others.

 

FWIW, it can be viewed for free online with a HamCo library card if you're a resident

Edited October 3, 20222 yr by Dev

Moving the tennis tournament to the FWW caps is a very interesting idea. It could also, depending on how it is built, maybe integrate in a main stadium that also serves as a Heritage Bank Arena replacement. That would require a retractable roof and some creative (expensive) design, however.

Idk if many people here realize that the Cincy tennis tournament is one of the oldest in the USA, which is also why it is one of the highest point value tournaments in the US too. Bringing it right downtown would give it a whole new life in a super cool venue surrounded by one of the best preserved collections of 19th century architecture in the country. Don’t get me wrong, I do like the current site A LOT (it’s gorgeous) but this is next level good if done well.

The only issue is how to use the site the other ~350 days a year. Would rooftop courts over low rise retail and office buildings be an option that could be in budget? I know nothing about the costs of rooftop gardens and the like


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The tennis tournament is not moving downtown.  The Lindner family tennis center is one of the nicest in the country.  If the new owners are going to move the tourney it will be because they think they can make more money in a larger market.  Downtown isn't going to make any more money then the current location.  Not to mention the FWW caps don't have near enough room to fit the needed 8+ courts and other amenities to host this large tournament.  Barrett needs to stop bringing this up because it's a stupid idea. 

Edited October 4, 20222 yr by Cincy513

7 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

The tennis tournament is not moving downtown.  The Lindner family tennis center is one of the nicest in the country.  If the new owners are going to move the tourney it will be because they think they can make more money in a larger market.  Downtown isn't going to make any more money then the current location.  Not to mention the FWW caps don't have near enough room to fit the needed 8+ courts and other amenities to host this large tournament.  Barrett needs to stop bringing this up because it's a stupid idea. 

Barrett is doing this for a multi-tude of reasons. One, if the tournament does get uprooted out of Cincinnati, he can say he was proactive in trying to save it and make it more viable. Second, he doesnt want the entire tournament on top of FWW, just opening, play in matches, that typically garner smaller crowds. Quiet honestly you could keep the tournament in Mason but do some play in matches downtown to get people interesting who wouldn't normally trek up to mason for the matches. With Carl dead, he is the only big blue blood money in the city anymore. No more Nippert, Corbett, Haile families to make things happen when we need the scales tipped in our favor. 

7 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Barrett is doing this for a multi-tude of reasons. One, if the tournament does get uprooted out of Cincinnati, he can say he was proactive in trying to save it and make it more viable. Second, he doesnt want the entire tournament on top of FWW, just opening, play in matches, that typically garner smaller crowds. Quiet honestly you could keep the tournament in Mason but do some play in matches downtown to get people interesting who wouldn't normally trek up to mason for the matches. With Carl dead, he is the only big blue blood money in the city anymore. No more Nippert, Corbett, Haile families to make things happen when we need the scales tipped in our favor. 

Finally, a comment that is both logical and realistic. Totally agree this is Barrett's most likely strategy.

21 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Barrett is doing this for a multi-tude of reasons. One, if the tournament does get uprooted out of Cincinnati, he can say he was proactive in trying to save it and make it more viable. Second, he doesnt want the entire tournament on top of FWW, just opening, play in matches, that typically garner smaller crowds. Quiet honestly you could keep the tournament in Mason but do some play in matches downtown to get people interesting who wouldn't normally trek up to mason for the matches. With Carl dead, he is the only big blue blood money in the city anymore. No more Nippert, Corbett, Haile families to make things happen when we need the scales tipped in our favor. 

Barrett is certainly concerned about the tourney but I think his bigger eye is on figuring out a way to get a new arena downtown. he sees the tennis tourney as a way to justify a new downtown arena. I think he could take or leave playing some matches on the FWW caps or just erecting stands at Sawyer Point and utilizing some of those courts. he certainly wants the tourney too, and has heard concerns about the average player not enjoying staying in Mason (no late night amenities, etc) but I think the main goal is to get a new arena.

46 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Barrett is certainly concerned about the tourney but I think his bigger eye is on figuring out a way to get a new arena downtown. he sees the tennis tourney as a way to justify a new downtown arena. I think he could take or leave playing some matches on the FWW caps or just erecting stands at Sawyer Point and utilizing some of those courts. he certainly wants the tourney too, and has heard concerns about the average player not enjoying staying in Mason (no late night amenities, etc) but I think the main goal is to get a new arena.

Lack of nicer hotels in Mason has been another sticking point. Most tennis players tend to stay in the city and commute up to Mason during the tournament. I know some Airbnb properties in the north side of the city. The tennis center is very nice, but i don't see the W&S open in Cincinnati much longer. That sucker is going to get moved to Charleston or elsewhere. 

There was a press conference today that shared some more details about the project.

 

I must say, I'm finding the timing of the Cincinnati mega-projects to be pretty fortuitous (or perhaps suspiciously conspicuous?). With a little leadership and coordination, we could completely reimagine the western downtown Basin.  

 

 

At the presser Mayor Aftab mentioned that he has been to the White House 6 times since being elected to office.

 

It's no coincidence. 

 

Also he mentioned the City is applying for Reconnecting Communities funds to study ways to reconnect Evanston to Hyde Park over I-71.

Sincere question: was there any public input process where the community said that they would prefer to use the FWW caps for park space (as opposed to mixed-use buildings or some other use)? If not, it might be something worth doing, considering that the price tag of the park space is estimated at $95-110 million.

43 minutes ago, taestell said:

Sincere question: was there any public input process where the community said that they would prefer to use the FWW caps for park space (as opposed to mixed-use buildings or some other use)? If not, it might be something worth doing, considering that the price tag of the park space is estimated at $95-110 million.

These caps have been talked about since the piers were installed when FWW was re-developed. Hell I was a kid when they first starting talking about them in the late 90s. This isn't something new that came out of nowhere. We just finally have an administration working the right avenues in DC to get money for these projects. We don't need more commercial buildable space above FWW. If the Banks was developed out and all the surface lots around CBD and OTR were being developed, then hell yeah sure lets build on top of FWW. I think the idea and programing of the park event space about FWW to be a great idea and gateway into the city for visitors. 

I mean, going back to the very first post in this thread:

 

On 4/8/2008 at 7:30 AM, oakiehigh said:

AIA hosted a day-long session last August called "Greening the Gap," in which it invited the public to share proposals for the space.  The final report was presented Monday to Hamilton County Commissioners.  Among the suggestions: a water feature, bike path, veterans' park, greenhouse, an aerial tram, and mixed commercial and residential buildings. Any buildings would be limited to four or five stories.

 

From the very beginning, park space was one of many ideas proposed for the caps.

I think it would be nice to have the two minor caps on the edges as potential outdoor-oriented bars, restaurants, etc. Setback from the N/S streets with large front patios and stuff. But building tons of retail on all of the caps isn't going to be a dynamic change in downtown IMO. I think the buildings would look out of place if they took up the whole blocks and probably be similar to the often dead space along 2nd Street at The Banks.

 

The two large caps should certainly (IMO) be park space that can be utilized for dozens of events throughout the year

8 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I think it would be nice to have the two minor caps as potential outdoor-oriented bars, restaurants, etc. Setback from the street with large front patios and stuff

Back in 2017 the county tried to get $25 million to just fund the 'end' cap between Race and Elm, with the idea that they would develop that land and use the funds from the developed portion to help fund the next cap and so on. Two things I'm curious about, is why it's the city this time and not the county leading the effort and if developing the ends is still seen as viable if ODOT would charge fair market value in that case. I think the middle ground is to develop the two end caps as park pavilions - think the Porch at Washington Park at one end and a permanent festival/event pavilion at the other end. It could still be seen as a public park space from ODOTs perspective in an air rights sale, but would complete the objective of visually and audibly capping the ends of the park from the highway below. Profits from the bar/restaurant/event venue could also help offset maintenance and other costs associated with the park space. 

Edited October 4, 20222 yr by ucgrady

1 hour ago, taestell said:

Sincere question: was there any public input process where the community said that they would prefer to use the FWW caps for park space (as opposed to mixed-use buildings or some other use)? If not, it might be something worth doing, considering that the price tag of the park space is estimated at $95-110 million.

The project architect from KZF said that they are still leaving room open for potential overbuild. This concept was developed to align City, County and Chamber priorities to get funding to study the concept more. I would expect a community engagement component of some kind for the feasibility study if they get funding. 

I'm supportive of the caps (assuming we can get federal money, of course we should go after it), regardless of what gets put on top... but I have to admit I'm a bit shellshocked by the price. I know much has been written about how public infrastructure costs too much in the US compared to other countries... but come on. There's got to be a better, cheaper way, right? 

Here's my proposal: use the Walnut/Main block as the main downtown bus transit center. It's better positioned than Government Square for most bus routes, and sits on top of the Riverfront Transit Center.

 

18 hours ago, jwulsin said:

but I have to admit I'm a bit shellshocked by the price

I agree. Looking at Pittsburgh recently completed (last year) cap park, it was $32 million for 108,000 sqft. That's about $296/sqft. The caps between Race and Vine, and Vine and Walnut are 56,350 sqft each, for a total of 112,700 sqft of park space. Ignoring the partial caps on either end, that means our two caps should be able to be done for around $32 million, especially when considering that the foundations already exist and foundations can make up 10-15% of a project's costs (they cost $8 million 20 years ago). Assuming the same price per square foot as Pittsburgh, the total price including the two end caps (at 30,000 sqft each) would be about $51 million. Something's off and it's not just inflation because again their park was built in a post 2020 construction landscape. 

 

In short, I agree, the price tag of $110 million seems crazy high unless it includes development above. For comparison, Pittsburgh's cap isn't bare bones and has topography to deal with:

 

Edited October 5, 20222 yr by ucgrady