metrocity-  access to the historic neighborhood the the east (riverside neighborhood) is provided by a set of stairs to the right of you as you head south towards The Ascent on that west side of the bridge.  The steps lead to second street which passes under the bridge and places you right in the hood you wanted to be in.  I do agree the road is a bit "over engineered" there.  I believe they wanted to make sure that tracffic didn't back up onto the bridge at rush hour as you enter ky.  Don't know why they just didn't make the approach single lane.  That area is pretty pedestrian unfriendly, but not quite in hostile territory!!

Can't run trains over the Roebling. The flexing that would result from the movement would cause severe stress and deterioration of the cables and anchors. Very similar to the case with the Manhattan Bridge in NYC.

 

As for the condition of the bridge, KYTC told me that it is rated for at least another 50 years with its current setup. Removing the buses, which add a lot of undue weight to the span, added about 20 years before it needs a major overhaul.

Let's just restore it to being a toll bridge which it was well into the 20C and start saving for a 150th anniversary serious rebuild.

sounds good!

 

^If you restored it to a toll bridge, who would use it, since we have other alternatives?

For those that frequently use it, a small toll would be better than going around.

Those who frequently use it now would be discouraged from using it in the future.  Installation, upkeep, and manning a toll point also would need to be weighed with the toll itself.

I disagree, but if so, it becomes a good way to cut down on bridge traffic.

Toll all the bridges!  [evil laugh]

If it were up to me, I'd charge a toll on the bridges that carry limited-access expressways (Carroll Cooper, Brent Spence, Daniel Carter Beard, Combs-Hehl), and leave the others toll-free. All the bridges would be maintained by the same regional authority, so tolls collected on the freeway bridges would help pay for maintenance and upkeep of all the bridges. Sure, people could avoid the tolls by exiting the freeway and crawling along city streets, but I suspect most people aren't that cheap, and that's not even a viable option on the I-275 bridges because of their remote locations.

 

The only people who'd really get screwed would be those who commute into downtown from the east by cutting through Northern Kentucky via I-275/I-471, since they'd have to pay twice. But maybe that would be the incentive they need to leave their cars behind and take the train instead. One possibility would be to set up the EZ-Pass system so that a car that's already paid a toll within a certain time period (say, 30 minutes) won't be charged a second time within that period.

Tolls are fine with be, but the respective state gas taxes should be lowered dramatically in response.  Double-dipping is out of the question.  I'm not fully convinced either system is perfect though, they both have their negative side effects.  For example, traffic over the Brent Spence is already a joke, a toll booth would make it look like the George Washington Bridge.  At that rate, it would be much, much quicker for people to get off the highway and take the city streets. 

I disagree about the gas tax, but that's getting even further off-topic for this thread.

 

Any new toll plazas would presumably be built with express lanes so that EZ-Pass users are able to zoom through at normal highway speeds without having to stop or slow down. Cash toll lanes would be accessed via off-ramps and on-ramps, so any backup would be confined to that part of the highway. This arrangement is fairly routine on the Illinois Tollway system, and is being implemented by the New Jersey Turnpike. (Combined with discounted tolls for EZ-Pass users, regular commuters have a strong incentive to sign up for the EZ-Pass and avoid having to pay cash.)

 

Another option is to charge tolls only to traffic going in one direction (say, northbound) but double the toll. Regular commuters would pay the same dollar amount per day, but the capital and operating expenses of the toll facilities would be roughly half. This arrangement is fairly common in the NYC area.

 

The comparison with the George Washington Bridge isn't really apt, since that's an older toll plaza that was retrofitted for EZ-Pass, rather than a new one purpose-built with EZ-Pass in mind. Besides that, the Brent Spence only carries about 70% of the GWB's traffic volume.

I think a one direction toll would be the only possibility (at least for 71/75 and 471)  Trying to fit toll plazas into the spaghetti on the Cincinnati side of those bridges would be one hell of a task.

 

The off-ramp on-ramp cash tolls would have to be pretty long, but I suppose there is room on the KY side to accommodate them.  I still think the 5th street exit in Covington would see a huge increase in traffic that would flood through the fast food district.

 

As for the GWB, it's got 14 lanes as opposed to 8, and has about 1000 toll booths, but I've still accumulated entire days worth of time sitting in traffic there, despite the EZ-Pass system.

>Tolls are fine with be, but the respective state gas taxes should be lowered dramatically in response.  Double-dipping is out of the question. 

 

Roads, highways, and bridges aren't coming close to paying for themselves through the gas tax alone.  Americans have been duped into thinking the gas tax pays for everything (I recall my 7th grade teacher leaning back on her chair getting rosy-cheeked over the 'perfection' of the gas tax), then make fun of Europe for taxing its gas so much more.  The irony is that Europe's roads actually do sustain themselves with gas and toll revenue and they often have better roads than we do (much deeper concrete). Follow some of the European "interstates" on Google Earth -- they often tunnel around towns in ways that would never happen here, where we build straight through and make no effort to maintain the landscape.  There's one coastal expressway in Italy with literally dozens and dozens of tunnels in order to minimize its effect on the landscape.  Here we'd call that a waste and let the towns die off amidst a wash of highway noise.     

 

The Port Authority of New York & New Jersey *has no ability to tax* and sustains dozens of bridges, tunnels, and 5 airports through tolls, user fees, and rents.  It costs $8 to enter Manhattan because *that's how much these things really cost*. 

 

It is currently embroiled in some complicated bookkeeping to rebuild the World Trade Center, but nevertheless, people whine about the tolls in the NYC area but there unlike here you're actually paying for the maintenance, upkeep, and repayment of bonds with those tolls totally independent of other taxes. 

 

The GWB handles 106 million vehicles per year, compared to 73 million on the Brent Spence. Additionally, while both bridges are double-deck, the GWB has bi-directional traffic on each deck instead of having each deck serve one direction only. This adds another layer of confusion that the Brent Spence doesn't have (although that may change if they put the I-71/75 split south of the river). The GWB also has a bird's nest of exit/entrance ramps adjacent to the toll plaza, which further adds to delays.

 

My point about the EZ-Pass is that while the GWB has EZ-Pass only lanes, EZ-Pass users must still come to a full stop and wait for the gate to open. This delay is eliminated with dedicated express lanes like those shown below:

 

 

I agree that any toll facility for the Brent Spence and Daniel Carter Beard bridges would need to be on the Kentucky side. That would need to be the case regardless of whether the tolls are collected in both directions or in one direction only. This is probably true for the Combs-Hehl as well, since the Kellogg Road interchange is immediately adjacent to the bridge on the Ohio side.

 

As for tolls on the other bridges that serve local traffic only, available space for a toll facility is much more restricted. Even with EZ-Pass, you still need at least a lane or two for people paying cash. The only other alternative would be to do a London-style system, where cameras automatically take photos of your license plates and send you the bill. You can imagine the howls of outrage that idea would create.

To bring this back to my original point, much of the old toll infrastructure is still there. A quarter or even 50cent toll with toss baskets is not going to keep people from using the bridge (or EZPass but that just doesn't seem worth it for the amount of traffic it gets). It is probably one of the most significant structures in the city. A toll would allow the state to begin to make the kind of investment that would allow the bridge to live for centuries.

Define the old infrastructure you're talking about.  I'm not sure where it's located on the bridge.

To bring this back to my original point, much of the old toll infrastructure is still there. A quarter or even 50cent toll with toss baskets is not going to keep people from using the bridge (or EZPass but that just doesn't seem worth it for the amount of traffic it gets). It is probably one of the most significant structures in the city. A toll would allow the state to begin to make the kind of investment that would allow the bridge to live for centuries.

 

I agree.  To turn this marvel into pedestrian only destroys its long history and status.  It shouts out that this bridge is no longer important significant.  We drive across it just because we enjoy it.  I'd much rather pay a toll here than on the Spence.

The tolls stopped on the suspension bridge in 1964, when the Brent Spence opened.  The toll house is still there and the building where the bridge company was headquartered is still there but is now home to Anchor Properties.  They have an old walk-in safe, just a like a bank, right inside the front door. 

 

  You are talking about the Kentucky side, right? There was a toll building on the Ohio side that still existed when they built the original FWW.

 

  Some Roebling trivia: next time you cross the bridge, look for a little door on the underside of each arch.

That door is how they used to get into the tops of the towers.  They climbed a rope ladder into that space, which is hollow. 

Roebling Bridge to darken

Historic suspension bridge will close for 8 months in 2010 Monday

By Brenna R. Kelly • [email protected] • December 4, 2009

 

http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20091204/NEWS0103/312040055/Roebling+Bridge+to+darken+Monday

 

Hey Uncle Carl!!

 

The committee needs to raise $300,000 for the lights before November 2010. It has already raised $150,000. The costs include $350,000 for new lighting and $100,000 for a 20-year maintenance fund.

 

  "That door is how they used to get into the tops of the towers.  They climbed a rope ladder into that space, which is hollow. "

 

    I've been there.    :-)

Upgrades planned for Roebling's 'yoke'

By Scott Wartman, Cincinnati Enquirer | January 21, 2010

 

A grass-roots effort has sought to improve the entryway into Covington off the Roebling Suspension Bridge.  The residents, business leaders and elected officials on the Gateway at Roebling Committee will start raising money for the project that would add vegetation and better crosswalks to this area, known as the yoke due to the fork in the road.

 

The committee just completed renderings after four years of planning how to make the area safer for pedestrians and more attractive.  Residents who lived near the entrance to the bridge started the effort, said Marilyn Donnelly, a resident who chairs Gateway at Roebling.

 

Read full article here:

http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100121/NEWS0103/1220353

Finally! I've always wondering why that area wasn't better planned.

Kentucky Transportation Cabinet is now saying the Roebling Bridge could be closed until June after suffering damage last week when a car crashed into it.

I biked over it on Sunday and couldn't see any damage. 

 

What was interesting is that they had cones blocking the sidewalks but people just moved them out of the way and walked across anyway.  Plus a lot of people took advantage of the closed deck to walk across the middle and do photo shoots. 

Originally they closed it only to cars and still let pedestrians cross. A day or two later, they closed it for pedestrians as well.

This was caused by another "bootleg cab" accident, whose driver ran off and left his pregnant passenger unconscious on the side of the road:

 

Roebling crash: 'Bootleg' cab driver fled from injured pregnant passenger, Covington police say

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/crime/crime-and-courts/2018/03/26/roebling-crash-bootleg-cab-driver-fled-injured-passengers-covington-police-say/458710002/

Not sure why it needs to be closed to pedestrians for that long.  There are some of us who walk over that bridge twice everyday who now have to figure out alternate ways of getting to work.  Not allowing cars I completely understand but the few people I'd pass on the bridge every morning and evening was not going to cause any further damage. 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry...  Coincidentally or ironically, this news just appeared...

http://www.wlwt.com/article/party-on-the-purple-returns-to-cincinnati-this-spring/19595396

Photos from last sunday...no noise from the bridge deck:

 

...and a year after the closure due to the wreck, it looks like it will be closed for about a month to repair falling stonework:

https://www.wcpo.com/traffic/no-end-in-sight-for-roebling-bridge-closure

 

The article mentions that the bridge will undergo substantial repairs in 2020. 

Is it time to permanently make the Roebling pedestrian and bike-only?

It really should have one side be bike-only regardless, like the Golden Gate Bridge. If they did make it ped-and-bike (pipe dream I know), I'd hope they'd change the grating on the deck, since it's not pleasant to bike across. 

I believe it was originally a wood surface. The bridge can't support asphalt, which is why they have the metal grates. Not sure what options are available if it was converted to pedestrian and bike. Perhaps a much thinner asphalt layer could be used that wouldn't be viable for cars, but possible for lighter loads.

 

I actually like being able to drive across it. I don't think it needs to be restricted to bikes and pedestrians, but I don't think I would fight it. I don't see it happening any time soon, though.

It would probably make sense in the long term to build a new bridge for transit vehicles and cars from Race to Madison.

Just now, Robuu said:

It would probably make sense in the long term to build a new bridge for transit vehicles and cars from Race to Madison.

 

Yeah, if they do eventually close the Roebling to all vehicles, then a parallel bridge would make sense. Until that point, it wouldn't make any sense.

Something I haven't seen answered in the news is whether or not it safe for people to be walking down the middle of it right now? If sandstone is falling off then I can't imagine it is safe to be walking on it. I'd like to see KYTC weigh in on that. 

Selfies!  Instagram!

 

 

 

The Suspension Bridge and other Cincinnati scenes appeared as B-roll on a recent episode of Frontline.  The footage begins at 4:50:

 

It's amazing how easily you can spin a city's narrative through selective shots and interviews. I don't think anyone would argue that Middletown is "healthy" by any stretch of the imagination, but its population has been growing and its downtown has vastly improved even in the past few years. 

Nice shot of the ST. BERNARD OAP COMPANY in there.

In all my time here I had never driven through Middletown until recently on a sales call. I didn't realize it was in such bad shape, sad to see. Hamilton looked much healthier in the downtown, but it's great to hear for Middletown that they are seeing population growth and the downtown is improving.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

Nice shot of the ST. BERNARD OAP COMPANY in there.

When I saw that, I was like "Ope!"

Edited May 23, 20196 yr by Robuu

2 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

It's amazing how easily you can spin a city's narrative through selective shots and interviews.

 

They portrayed the St. Bernard Soap Co. as an abandoned building but we all know it's a very active manufacturing site.  In fact, the rail cars they show a second later serve the plant, I believe.  Also, the "abandoned" brick warehouse they drive past is used for storage. 

 

Also, as someone who works in an industrial park, I can vouch that there is no vacancy and many companies have outgrown their buildings.  Some companies near us have employees parking on the grass every morning.  We bring in a lot of low-level stuff from China and the quality of the stuff and reliability of their vendors have gotten better over the past 10 years. 

 

 

 

 

The sheer number of E-commerce warehouses either planned, under construction, or completed in our region is off the charts.  

Edited May 24, 20196 yr by oakiehigh

According to the national news though, Ohio's entire economy is supported by two steel mills and a car factory. 

On 5/21/2019 at 12:17 AM, jmecklenborg said:

Selfies!  Instagram!

 

 

 

 

OMG, we closed a road/bridge for cars and the world didn't end? And that space then turned into an extremely popular destination for pedestrians and cyclists?

 

It would be nice if our civic leaders could learn from this and keep it in mind when considering future road diets, festival streets/woonerfs, etc. But knowing our current leaders ... they won't.

I get really frustrated when I think of the Cranley years. Now, you are seeing a ton of development in NKY and not really a whole lot in the City of Cincinnati, compared to what I feel like it could be. I know there are some big projects cooking but so many missed opportunities, like fixing the streetcar, the actual road diet of Liberty Street, etc.