October 30, 200816 yr Local airfares highest ever Cincinnati/N.Ky. still most costly in US By David Holthaus • [email protected] • October 30, 2008 Airfares nationally reached their highest level ever in the second quarter of this year - and the local airport was the highest of the high. The Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport has led the nation in expensive fares for 2½ years running, according to government data, but the second quarter saw the average fare across the country rise to its highest level in the 13 years that the government has been gathering the information. And travelers flying from the Hebron airport paid round-trip fares that were, on average, 69 percent higher than the national average. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081030/BIZ01/810300306/1055/NEWS
October 30, 200816 yr What I wonder is how much money is Delta actually losing by scaring customers off to other airports and other airlines? They claim that costs are higher at their hubs, which I can understand. Would they lose LESS if their prices were lower at hubs like Cincinnati?
October 30, 200816 yr October 30, 2008 Airports Grow Apace, but the Timing Seems Off By MICHELINE MAYNARD New York Times Airports around the country broke ground on dozens of projects over the last decade, including new runways and terminals, to handle all the new passenger traffic that seemed certain to keep growing. Now, many of those new developments are being completed. And the timing could not be worse. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/30runways.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
October 30, 200816 yr I'm surprised there's been no mention of the Delta/Northwest merger. EDIT: Well, out from the rug. :-p
October 30, 200816 yr It was mentioned.... "Even in the future, the prospects for Cincinnati’s airport are not good. Delta received approval from the Justice Department Wednesday to merge with Northwest, giving the combined airline six hubs in the United States. Cincinnati is less than 250 miles from Detroit, Northwest’s main airport for international traffic. Although Delta insists it has no plans to eliminate any hubs, Detroit, now its second-biggest airport after Atlanta, may have the upper hand if Delta chooses to streamline its operations. Detroit opened its new North terminal in September, its second new terminal this decade."
November 8, 200816 yr http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living-1/1226050358113430.xml&coll=2 Pittsburgh to start nonstop flights to Paris on Delta in June Delta announces new year-round service starting in June Friday, November 07, 2008 Susan Glaser The Plain Dealer Pittsburgh soon will be saying bonjour to Paris, too. Delta Air Lines Thursday announced new nonstop service between Pittsburgh and Paris, starting Wednesday, June 3. Delta's new flight begins about a year after Continental Airlines launched nonstop service between Cleveland and Paris. But unlike Cleveland's flight, which runs late May through early September, Delta's service will be year-round.
January 13, 200916 yr January 10, 2009 Lacking Airlines, Small Cities’ Economies Suffer By HILLARY CHURA Santa Fe, N.M., lost its airline service a year ago, and its tourism-centered economy has definitely felt the pinch. “Either people come through a different airport, or they plain don’t come,” said the airport’s manager, Jim Montman. In Moses Lake, Wash., without an airline for two years, travelers have a choice of driving 180 miles to Seattle or 105 miles to Spokane — assuming they can get through roads occasionally closed by snow. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/business/economy/10airports.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all
March 27, 200916 yr Spirit Air to begin charging a fee... for buying a ticket: (anywhere other than a Spirit Air ticket counter). Spirit Airlines: Fee For Buying Tickets http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123604492886515417.html This is getting ridiculous, IMHO. By implementing all these different fees instead of just sucking it up and raising their fares, they are just further complicating things. They need to keep their fare structures simple and easy to understand.
June 8, 200916 yr http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/08/iata-airline-industry-losses Airlines 'to lose $9bn' as they fight to survive recession IATA nearly doubles forecast of losses as passenger numbers fall and carriers slash ticket prices Dan Milmo in Kuala Lumpur guardian.co.uk, Monday 8 June 2009 08.00 BST Airlines will lose $9bn (£5.7bn) this year, nearly double previous forecasts, as carriers fight to stay afloat in the "most difficult" trading conditions they have ever faced, the industry's leading body has warned. Buffeted by a collapse in business traffic, falling fares and the threat of resurgent fuel costs, the industry is expected to come close to matching last year's losses of $10.4bn, said the International Air Transport Association (Iata). Revenues are expected to fall by 15% this year, a decline of $80bn, as passenger numbers fall and airlines slash fares to entice a dwindling amount of potential customers. As a result, the forecast industry loss this year has nearly doubled from $4.7bn to $9bn. ........... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 200915 yr http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8102862.stm Page last updated at 16:16 GMT, Tuesday, 16 June 2009 17:16 UK BA asks staff to work for nothing British Airways is asking thousands of staff to work for nothing, for up to one month, to help the airline survive. The appeal, sent by e-mail to more than 30,000 workers in the UK, asks them to volunteer for between one week and one month's unpaid leave, or unpaid work. BA's chief executive Willie Walsh has already agreed to work unpaid in July, forgoing his month's salary of £61,000. Last month, BA posted a record annual loss of £401m, partly due to higher fuel bills and other costs. ....... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 22, 200915 yr http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/business/23airports.html?_r=1&hp Airport Projects Delayed or Canceled By LESLIE WAYNE Published: June 22, 2009 At the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky International Airport, passengers are so scarce that a long-term parking lot will soon be turned into temporary housing for 900 horses attending equestrian games in the nearby bluegrass countryside. It is an apt image — going from air power to horse power — for the troubles that airports are face these days: too few passengers, too few flights, too little revenue. And to deal with these setbacks they have come up with a solution: cut every capital project they can. .......... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 24, 200915 yr I would say that there is about a one in a million chance. Houston is a much larger hub than cleveland, allowing them to move more routes through that hub.
July 2, 200915 yr How much longer can they keep this up? http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE55T28920090630 Airlines lost $3 billion in first quarter Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:05am EDT GENEVA (Reuters) - The world's airlines lost more than $3 billion in the first quarter of 2009, the International Air Transport Association (IATA) said on Tuesday, maintaining its estimate for full-year losses of $9 billion. In its latest snapshot on the industry, the Geneva-based lobby said weak travel demand and lower freight volumes in the global recession had bled revenues for major carriers, in "a significant deterioration from last year." "This deterioration was before the recent rise in fuel prices," IATA said, warning the 30 percent increase in oil and jet fuel prices since early May would squeeze airline cash flows further in coming months. ........ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 10, 200915 yr It's bad. Of the many flights ive taken this past month, some were half empty. From NYC to Europe there were about 50 open seats in the back of the plane. It felt like there were 10 people on the plane en route to BA. I was shocked they didn't cancel the flight.
July 11, 200915 yr So that's where you were! What's BA? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 200915 yr Click on the cartoon an another cartoon will appear. There are 19 cartoons in all... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27407068/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/1/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 200915 yr Click on the cartoon an another cartoon will appear. There are 19 cartoons in all... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27407068/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/1/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27407068/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/15/ The above picture is HA LAR REE US! I can so see that happening at JFK.
July 20, 200915 yr Very good story on the airlines "shrinking" capacity to survive: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/airlines_cut_capacity_to_survi.html
July 20, 200915 yr Very good story on the airlines "shrinking" capacity to survive: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/airlines_cut_capacity_to_survi.html Some routes need to be cut. Lately I've been on flights were there are maybe 20-30 people on a small 737.
July 21, 200915 yr I don't think the airlines are a viable business anymore. If prices go too high no one will fly. We will have subsidize them even more. Then again highways were never a business except for construction companies and government.
July 21, 200915 yr Still think it would be in the airlines best interest to keep international flights but cut regional flights. That way they'd be setting themselves up for the future not having to worry about high speed rail competing for their business. Plus, international travel is still stronger than regional travel, despite the downturn.
July 21, 200915 yr Really? Back to this again? The orginal point of this thread was how oil prices last summer were causing airlines so much hardship that they'd never survive. That somehow $147/barrel was a "real" price that would never cascade down to errr....$35/barrel ever again. Hmmm. Now, because SOME airlines are being squeezed by the worst recession since the early 80's (Kudos to the folks on the recession thread for getting it right!) we're back to saying the industry is dead and doing Monday morning quarterbacking? Hmmm. Interesting.
July 21, 200915 yr http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2706.msg411034.html#msg411034 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 200915 yr http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2706.msg411034.html#msg411034 Ken, Oil prices aren't driving the losses currently. Lack of business is. You can believe what you want about when peak oil hits, the airlines are not leading this downturn, not by a long shot.
July 21, 200915 yr I didn't say they were leading this downturn. Rather, I look at this issue from a perspective of structural change over 10-20 years. I hate the American business perspective with its 90-day planning horizons. I want to see the influencing factors that will drive this industry between now and 2030. On that score, fuel is one of if not the major influence. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 200915 yr I didn't say they were leading this downturn. Rather, I look at this issue from a perspective of structural change over 10-20 years. I hate the American business perspective with its 90-day planning horizons. I want to see the influencing factors that will drive this industry between now and 2030. On that score, fuel is one of if not the major influence. Yet the IATA story about losses this year is posted here. This year, most of the losses will have nothing to do with fuel. So is it long term or short term? Not disagreeing with you about the fuel issue, BTW, it'll come to a head. I'm not opposed to your thoughts on the matter of transportation, but I've always thought aviation and rails should work in tandem, much like they do in Japan and Europe. For some reason, that gets a cold reception on these boards.
July 21, 200915 yr Not from this guy. I think the aviation industry would be much healthier if it wasn't being asked to serve short-haul trips which are best served by fast trains linked to airports. The rail industry would also be healthier with such linkages. Imagine the possibilities with joint facilities, code-sharing, and even small luggage/freight containers that were size/weight compatible between plane and train for easy transfers. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 200915 yr Not from this guy. I think the aviation industry would be much healthier if it wasn't being asked to serve short-haul trips which are best served by fast trains linked to airports. The rail industry would also be healthier with such linkages. Imagine the possibilities with joint facilities, code-sharing, and even small luggage/freight containers that were size/weight compatible between plane and train for easy transfers. I get all that. However, business related travel, ~60% (from what I understand that 60% of business travel pays for 80% of all travel as leisure fares don't pay for squat) of travel, has been cut drastically. Load factors for airlines is around 80%, IIRC, an airline (legacy airline) has to have 94% load factor on average to break even. A lot of company's have imposed and are closely watching travel. Even here, worldwide, if you are an SVP or lower, you're riding in the back of the bus on domestic flights and have a cap on the type of hotel room you can book. If you're an EVP/President you can only book Business Class. Most executives do not want to do that as they feel they need to be comfortable if they are traveling for business. In addition, more company's are using video conference services. When I flew from Japan, the flight was damn near empty. and JAL is an awesome airline, same thing on my Milan to NYC flight. Today Continental announced that would lay off 1,700. http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/company/investor/audio.aspx This has further fueled speculation that Cleveland (CO), Cinci(DL/NW), Memphis(DL/NW), Minneapolis, (DL/NW), Las Vegas(US), Charlotte(US), San Fran (UA) and Denver(UA), San Juan (AA), St. Louis (AA) will all lose hub status. Philadelphia (US), Miami (AA) and IAD (UA) have been rumored to losealmost loss lots of direct and international flights. Las Vegas, Miami, San Juan are hit because their economies are tourist related and leisure travel is way down. Look how many flights have been cut from hubs to cities like the hawaiin islands, carribean & PHX (even more than normal in the summer), Florida, Vegas, Burbank, and New Orleans. Also look at the unemployment rate in those cities. Charlotte is on the list, because of BoA. It's their major employer. If that bank falls or has major financial issues, it' will cripple the city and US Air, the cities no. 2 employer. It's not looking too good.
August 15, 200915 yr Not from this guy. I think the aviation industry would be much healthier if it wasn't being asked to serve short-haul trips which are best served by fast trains linked to airports. The rail industry would also be healthier with such linkages. Imagine the possibilities with joint facilities, code-sharing, and even small luggage/freight containers that were size/weight compatible between plane and train for easy transfers. Well Ken, then I misjudged you on this and that's my bad. You and I are not far apart at all in thoughts of a future transportation system. I also think you can weave seabound vessels into one seamless system for cargo and even passenger service. It would be nice one day to have these different transportation modes act in conjunction and not with leaders that act as enemies claiming their own "turf" and trying to steal pax and cargo from one another. It's extremely counterproductive, especially with the energy issues on the horizon. It would be very cool to me if one day a person and his/her luggage could fly from L.A. to Cincy, take a high-speed train to Cleveland and then take a ferry across Lake Erie to Port Stanley, Ontario all on one fare and using one ticket. They're getting closer to this ideal to that in Europe and Japan, be the U.S. and Canada are light-years away from achieving this.
August 15, 200915 yr IATA warns of ‘de-globalisation’; latest traffic casts doubt on the bottoming of air travel declines http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2009/07/17/iata-warns-of-de-globalisation-latest-traffic-casts-doubt-on-the-bottoming-of-air-travel-declines/page1 Premium air travel markets continue to deteriorate, despite positive signs from some of the world’s leading economies, prompting a worrying new warning from the International Air Transport Association (IATA). The deterioration in international air travel in, to and from Asia during May, despite recovering economies in the region, says IATA, is a troubling sign of “what is being called ‘de-globalisation’”.
November 5, 200915 yr NetJets plans to lay off nearly 500 pilots Fewer than 100 of them are central Ohioans, company says Thursday, November 5, 2009 12:27 PM By Marla Matzer Rose THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH NetJets Inc. said today it will lay off nearly 500 pilots, as its new management deals with a prolonged economic downturn that has hit the company hard. The company employs more than 3,000 pilots worldwide, with most of them located in the U.S. Fewer than 100 of the pilots to be laid off live in the central Ohio area, said NetJets Chairman and CEO David Sokol. http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2009/11/05/netjets_layoffs.html?sid=101
November 11, 200915 yr In the long term, say the next 100 years, the airlines are doomed, unless an alternate fuel can be found. In the short term, the airlines are on their way to their long term demise. There is no way around it.
November 30, 200915 yr Only a start Fining airlines for abuse of passengers isn't enough; new rules are needed Monday, November 30, 2009 3:03 AM The U.S. Transportation Department's fining last week of the three airlines responsible for keeping 47 passengers confined on a plane for hours under very unpleasant conditions brings some satisfaction. But the fines alone are inadequate to curb airlines' disregard for their customers' well-being. Only an act of Congress or other binding federal regulation is going to force airlines to let passengers off planes that are grounded for hours. Full editorial at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/11/30/FINed.ART_ART_11-30-09_A12_AOFQ9LD.html?sid=101
November 30, 200915 yr In the long term, say the next 100 years, the airlines are doomed, unless an alternate fuel can be found. In the short term, the airlines are on their way to their long term demise. There is no way around it. The alternative fuel sources already exist as with other modes of transporation. However the opportunity cost of those alternatives is greater than existing the existing sources. A jet engine will burn anything.... it's just an exotic air compressor.
November 30, 200915 yr Not disagreeing with you about the fuel issue, BTW, it'll come to a head. I'm not opposed to your thoughts on the matter of transportation, but I've always thought aviation and rails should work in tandem, much like they do in Japan and Europe. For some reason, that gets a cold reception on these boards. I agree with you as well. There is a sweet spot for everything.
December 2, 200915 yr Airports want passenger fee charge increased By Roger Yu, USA TODAY If U.S. airports get their wish, air travelers will pay a few more dollars per trip next year. Citing escalating construction costs, airports have been lobbying Congress to raise the cap on the "passenger facility charge" that fliers pay as part of their airline tickets. The charge – now at $4.50 for each leg of the trip, up to $18 per round trip – funds the building of runways, terminals and gates. Airports would like to see the charge increased to $7.50 and indexed to the inflationary cost of construction. A bill in the House to reauthorize the Federal Aviation Administration proposes an increase to $7 a leg. A Senate committee has voted to keep the cap at $4.50. Find this article at: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2009-11-30-airwar30_ST_N.htm
December 9, 200915 yr This is a CNET-Live on their Reporter's Roundtable show talking about air travel and the industry. Interesting listen for someone who doesn't really pay that much attention to the subject. http://cnettv.cnet.com/2001-1_53-50080384.html
December 16, 200915 yr Costly fuel means more woe for airlines: report On Tuesday December 15, 2009, 6:57 am EST By Robert Evans GENEVA (Reuters) - The world's airlines are set to lose $5.6 billion next year, far more than previously estimated, with a rebound in passenger and air cargo demand only partly compensating for rising fuel costs, industry group IATA said. In its latest outlook, the International Air Transport Association on Tuesday reaffirmed its projection for an $11 billion loss in 2009 -- a year its chief Giovanni Bisignani called "an Annus Horribilis" for the highly cyclical sector. "The worst is likely behind us," Bisignani said. "For 2010, some key statistics are moving in the right direction." READ MORE AT: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Costly-fuel-means-more-woe-rb-3490150927.html?x=0 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 11, 201015 yr Posted on Sun, Jan. 10, 2010 We hate to fly -- and it shows BY MARJIE LAMBERT [email protected] Passengers load their carry-on items into plastic bins to go through inspections at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. Fed up with the hassles of air travel? Stepped-up security measures ordered earlier this week by President Barack Obama revived water-cooler talk about not setting foot on another airplane. But several airlines and local travel agents say it's too soon to know if people are changing travel plans in response to the new security measures or the Christmas Day attempted bombing on a Northwest Airlines flight that prompted them. It's not easy to find a way out of South Florida that doesn't involve an airplane. But there is evidence that some travelers -- facing the cumulative impact of reduced service, higher baggage fees, interminably long waits and increased security precautions -- were already looking for other vacation options. Full sotry at: http://www.miamiherald.com/living/travel/story/1411184.html
April 26, 201015 yr Airport Economics Big city airports need federal regulations to help weather airline instability. By Alex Marshall | April 2010 Back in the late 1990s, St. Louis and Pittsburgh had two of the hottest airports in the country. Jammed with flights, Lambert-St. Louis International Airport embarked on a billion dollar expansion program, while Pittsburgh International Airport pioneered the concept of an airport as a shopping mall, with plenty of selection and fair prices. But all of that has changed. To visit either airport today is to find closed-off gates and half-empty corridors. The reason is clear: St. Louis is no longer a hub for the now-defunct Trans World Airlines (TWA), and Pittsburgh is no longer a US Airways hub. Usually a city or county owns the airport either directly or through an authority, and in these two cases, both cities now struggle to reinvent and adapt these economic and community assets. Full story at: http://www.governing.com/column/airport-economics
June 14, 201015 yr Here's one..... http://www.albanyherald.com/opinion/headlines/96223929.html DOT considering grounding peanuts June 13, 2010 A dozen years after Congress told them to back off the issue or lose some funding, federal transportation regulators are again looking at the possibility of banning peanuts from airliners. This, of course, is a concern for peanut growers in Georgia and other peanut-producing states. At least four major airlines have already dropped the snack legumes. Delta — which is based in Atlanta — and Southwest still serve them, and American offers them as part of a trail mix. The Albany Herald Editorial Board Posted: 11:00 PM Jun 12, 2010 Reporter: The Albany Herald Editorial Board Email Address: [email protected] "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 201015 yr http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/06/14/airline.strike/index.html?hpt=T2 Spirit Airlines cancels all flights as pilots go on strike By the CNN Wire Staff (CNN) -- Spirit Airlines has canceled all flights through Wednesday as a result of a pilot's union strike, the airline announced Monday. Customers will receive flight credits for the full purchase amount for unflown flights as well as a $100 credit toward future flights. Passengers who opt for a full refund may call 1 (800) 772-7117.
September 3, 201014 yr Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets `Nobody Wants' By Mary Jane Credeur and Mary Schlangenstein - Sep 3, 2010 The 50-seat jets once prized by carriers such as Delta Air Lines Inc. are being culled from U.S. fleets as higher fuel and maintenance bills make them too expensive to fly. By 2015, U.S. airlines will have about 200 jets with 50 or fewer seats, down from about 1,200, said Michael Boyd, president of consultant Boyd Group International Inc. in Evergreen, Colorado. More than 80 have been scrapped in 2010, he said. “These are litters of aluminum kittens -- nobody wants them,” Boyd said. Their only value is for recycled metal, he said. “The next stop is the Budweiser factory because that’s all they’re good for.” Full story at: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-03/airline-era-ends-as-carriers-cull-50-seat-jets-nobody-wants-.html
September 3, 201014 yr So what does that mean for short-distance flights? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 3, 201014 yr It sure doesn't sound good for smaller airports that still have commerical service.
September 3, 201014 yr Chances are, the smaller towns in the U.S.A. that currently have connecting service to the larger cities are going to be disconnected from airline service. So, if you live in a small town and want to fly to Europe or something, you might have to drive a hundred miles just to get to the nearest airport with commercial flights. Airline economics are such that larger jets are more economical to operate on a per-passenger basis than smaller jets. Maybe as petroleum consumption peaks and declines, the smaller jets will become uneconomical one by one, leaving just the larger jets to serve the larger cities. Maybe the last airline to remain in service will be an 800 passenger airline between London and New York. Prior to the industrial revolution, most people spent their entire lives withing 50 miles of the place where they were born. Perhaps we are heading back to those days?
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