July 21, 200816 yr As you've likely heard or read, Midwest Airlines is in the process of restructuring to adapt to extraordinarily high fuel prices. One key part of these efforts is making difficult but necessary changes to our flight schedule. The information below outlines these changes and lets you know what to do if you think your flight might be impacted on or after September 8, 2008. What Does Not Change We will remain true to our mission of serving major business destinations with the best schedule and more nonstop flights from Milwaukee than any other airline. The following destinations remain part of the Midwest Airlines core route structure: Atlanta Boston Dallas/Ft. Worth Denver Kansas City Las Vegas Los Angeles Minneapolis/St. Paul New York La Guardia Omaha Orlando Philadelphia Phoenix San Francisco Seattle/Tacoma Tampa Washington, D.C. Retained Midwest Connect Markets Appleton Cleveland Columbus Dayton Des Moines New York Newark Flint Green Bay Grand Rapids Indianapolis Madison Minneapolis/St. Paul Nashville Omaha Philadelphia Cities We Will No Longer Serve Midwest Airlines Ft. Lauderdale Ft. Myers San Diego Midwest Connect Baltimore Hartford Louisville Muskegon Raleigh/Durham St. Louis San Antonio Wausau/Stevens Point Other Changes of Note Routes to the West Coast * With our MD-80s being taken out of service, flights to Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle/Tacoma will be operated on Boeing 717 aircraft via Kansas City. Flights from Milwaukee to Denver, Las Vegas and Phoenix will be nonstop on a Boeing 717. Kansas City Changes We will continue to serve the following destinations nonstop from Kansas City: * Boston * Los Angeles * Milwaukee * New York LaGuardia * San Francisco * Seattle/Tacoma * Washington, D.C. Florida * Longer flights to leisure market destinations are difficult to justify economically for Midwest and the rest of the industry. We realize that this will create complications for our customers with existing and future vacation plans for Florida. * Tampa will be the only Florida city we will serve on a year-round basis. Flights will be operated on Boeing 717 aircraft. We will continue nonstop service between Milwaukee and Orlando, but only seasonally. During the transition, we will suspend service Sept. 8 through Oct. 20, and then resume it Oct. 21, 2008 through April 30, 2009. * For a complete look at schedules and frequencies, visit midwestairlines.com and click on Timetable under the Travel Tools section on the home page. What Should You Do Now? * If you booked your flight through midwestairlines.com or our Reservations center, you will receive a notification from us regarding flight changes. * If you booked through a travel agency or online service such as Orbitz, Travelocity or Expedia, the agent or online service will contact you. * If you are holding a ticket for flights to any of the cities being discontinued or routes where frequency has been reduced, we encourage you to click here to view your reservation and request a full refund. For travel agency-issued tickets customers must have their ticket number or Midwest airlines six-letter confirmation code available. * If customers need to contact us regarding the schedule changes, we request that they call our Reservations center directly at 866-613-1390 and not call our corporate offices. We thank you in advance for your patience when calling, as we're helping a significant number of customers with similar requests. Reaccomodation Options If your flight has been affected by the schedule changes, you will have the following options: 1. Rebook on a different Midwest Airlines flight, if possible. 2. Rebook on another airline, if possible (requires you to call the Reservations center). This option may not be available in many cases as other airlines have limited seats for reaccommodation. 3. Use the value of your ticket to purchase a ticket to a different Midwest Airlines destination. 4. Receive a full refund. http://www.midwestairlines.com/ScheduleChange/SCInfo.html
July 29, 200816 yr Air Travel Failings Exposed Again by Weekend Storms By Sholnn Freeman Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, July 29, 2008; D02 The line of thunderstorms stretching from Albany to Washington over the weekend showed once again how broken the nation's air system is, according to travelers and activists. On Sunday, more than 80 percent of the 709 arriving flights at John F. Kennedy International Airport were late; 142 were canceled and 53 were diverted, according to data from FlightStats, a flight-tracking Web site. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072802546.html?referrer=emailarticle
July 29, 200816 yr Wait until the winter. why the NY Airspace is continually congested. BOS, PHL, EWR, LGA, JFK, DCA and to a lesser extent BWI and IAD are delay prone 24-7.
July 29, 200816 yr Just saying with all the cut flights. Just wait until a major winter storm hits. People will be stranded for DAYS.
July 29, 200816 yr Just saying with all the cut flights. Just wait until a major winter storm hits. People will be stranded for DAYS. As if they aren't being delayee now. I don't think there will be a big difference.
July 30, 200816 yr That's an interesting article by noozer. It implies, thanks to Kate Hanni, that if there had been fewer flights and the flights themselves had been half-booked, the East Coast airports would have been operating normally. This "small storm" as Mrs. Hanni is quoted as saying was a line of thunderstorms that streched from the US/Canadian border to Raleigh, NC, roughly 1000 miles long. It was also as wide as 100 miles in stretches between Philadelphia and Manchester, NH. I can tell you that in DC we had 2 1/2 hours of storms that day that included high winds and lightning, which caused injuries at a fair in suburban Virginia when a tent flew through a crowd. Also, 35,000 people lost power. Mind you, the DC area was actually not the epicenter of these storms. I'm curious on Mrs. Hanni's thoughts on what a big storm is! Now even if there was just 1 flight to JFK during the period these storms hit and this flight had 1 passenger, do you really think this flight would have arrived on time?!? In all honesty, Mrs. Hanni can speak on this subject like Brett Favre can speak on particle physics. Let me take another example from this poorly concieved artice: "In Columbus, Ohio ,where the sky was clear....". So now airlines are supposed to base departure time on weather at the departure airport. So a Continental flight leaving Cancun or San Juan for Cleveland this winter should depart without delay beacuse it's partly cloudy and 85 at the flights starting point, even though it's snowing heavily in Cleveland and all alternates are shut down due to a winter storm?! That leading sentence sets up this argument. How many people arrived safely at their destination last Sunday? There was a line a storms containing severe vertical wind shear, hail, cloud tops averaging about 45,000 feet (high enough that aircraft can't fly around these lines) on the busiest day of the week in the busiest time of the year and yet almost everyone made it to their destination or arrival and they made it safely. Maybe not on-time, but safely. Are you all suggesting airlines take the opposite route? Injure passengers for on-time arrival numbers? I'm not saying there weren't boneheaded decisions made by a certain airline *cough, Delta's 7 hr. tarmac debacle, cough*, but to base a judgment of an entire days ops on one poor decision of a dispatcher and an activist looking to get her name in the paper via a journalist and editor that clearly don't understand what they are writing/reading about is truly a sign of our uninformed times. I'm amazed and disappointed that the Post signed off on this article...it's borderline tabloid.
July 30, 200816 yr Just saying with all the cut flights. Just wait until a major winter storm hits. People will be stranded for DAYS. What's your point? People were stranded for DAYS last winter and the winter before that and the winter before that. Any major winter storm effects all modes of transportation. And that's not just a problem for folks living in the NE corridor. The only reason it effects the NE more profoundly is due to the amount of people travelling in that part of the region vs. other areas. What I don't understand is people that scream at Customer Service folks on why their plane isn't taking off on time when it's a blizzard wonderland out the window.
July 30, 200816 yr Just saying with all the cut flights. Just wait until a major winter storm hits. People will be stranded for DAYS. What's your point? People were stranded for DAYS last winter and the winter before that and the winter before that. Any major winter storm effects all modes of transportation. And that's not just a problem for folks living in the NE corridor. The only reason it effects the NE more profoundly is due to the amount of people travelling in that part of the region vs. other areas. What I don't understand is people that scream at Customer Service folks on why their plane isn't taking off on time when it's a blizzard wonderland out the window. Most of the people traveling THAT COMPLAIN about delays, IMHO, are leisure travelers. They don't know the "ins and outs" of air travel and blame the airline for delays that are out of their control.
July 30, 200816 yr Just saying with all the cut flights. Just wait until a major winter storm hits. People will be stranded for DAYS. What's your point? People were stranded for DAYS last winter and the winter before that and the winter before that. Any major winter storm effects all modes of transportation. And that's not just a problem for folks living in the NE corridor. The only reason it effects the NE more profoundly is due to the amount of people travelling in that part of the region vs. other areas. What I don't understand is people that scream at Customer Service folks on why their plane isn't taking off on time when it's a blizzard wonderland out the window. Most of the people traveling THAT COMPLAIN about delays, IMHO, are leisure travelers. They don't know the "ins and outs" of air travel and blame the airline for delays that are out of their control. I agree with ya MTS, seasoned travellers don't makes asses out of themselves at the airport, but what makes me nuts is when the media picks up on these complaints and asks "Why?". Is it that hard for the director of the news department to get on weather.com or nws.noaa.gov to get a complete picture? Clearly, at times, it is! I'm not saying airlines aren't at fault, it would just be nice if the argument could be framed correctly so the public could have a sensible debate about how to move forward. The media is currently not doing this.
July 30, 200816 yr I agree with ya MTS, seasoned travellers don't makes asses out of themselves at the airport, but what makes me nuts is when the media picks up on these complaints and asks "Why?". Is it that hard for the director of the news department to get on weather.com or nws.noaa.gov to get a complete picture? Clearly, at times, it is! I'm not saying airlines aren't at fault, it would just be nice if the argument could be framed correctly so the public could have a sensible debate about how to move forward. The media is currently not doing this. When I was in Chicago, this woman was going off about here flight to (I think) BWI. She was like the weather is fine here and fine in BWI (per a person she was speaking to on the phone) and the gate agent - with all the attitude of MayDay and I combined - said, "what has that got to do with the weather in between this airport and your final destination?" I nearly died trying to contain my laughter. She then went on to "school" this woman and her party about the weather and how it is out of her, the ATC, the airlines control. The woman was like other planes are taking of for DCA and IAD. He then asked the entire party, would they like to continue to: a) wait b) change their flight to a flight that is leaving the gate and will be sitting on the tarmac for a change fee, since those planes are NOT taking off only leaving the gate so in coming aircraft can have access to an available gate c) would they like to cancel their tickets, and use the remain value, minus any service fees to use toward a future flight. Note to you kids, do not mess with a Queen in a service oriented field with power! You will be read!
August 1, 200816 yr Way to rip off your customers! NWA plans round-trip fuel fees Associated Press MINNEAPOLIS -- Northwest Airlines Corp. confirmed on Thursday that it will add fuel surcharges of up to $80 for many domestic round-trip tickets. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080801/BIZ/808010343
August 4, 200816 yr ^Is that charge to cover all fuel or just the fuel increases?? Fuel surcharges are not designed to cover all costs regarding fuel. They're set up to offset rising fuel prices. I prefer fuel surcharges that are added to the price of a ticket rather than creating new baggage fees for the simple fact that fuel surcharges are more likely to be removed if fuel prices decline. Creating a new set of fees that are unrelated to energy prices are likely to be around for a long time.
August 4, 200816 yr Will fares go so high that only the rich can fly? By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY Deregulation of the airline industry 30 years ago made air travel affordable to most Americans. Rising airfares threaten to again make flying a service for the affluent. Airfares have risen this summer more than any year in the past quarter century, new studies by airfare experts show. The studies, done by Travelocity, FareCompare.com and Harrell Associates at USA TODAY's request, show that domestic fares this summer are up 12% to 15%, and on some routes, more than 200%. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-08-03-fares_N.htm
August 5, 200816 yr http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/04/news/companies/bc.apfn.jetblue.pillowfe.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes
August 5, 200816 yr I think Airlines are taking a note from Cruise ships. Make everything a la carte and up front. This way when you buy a ticket you know what the deal is.
August 19, 200816 yr Labor Day air travel expected to decline, group says Monday, August 18, 2008 2:12 PM WASHINGTON - An airline trade group expects Labor Day travel to drop by 5.7 percent this year, as rising airfares and schedule cuts keep travelers home. The Air Transport Association of America projected today that 16 million paying passengers will fly globally on U.S. airlines between Aug. 27 and Sept. 3. That would be down 5.7 percent from the 17 million passengers during the same period last year. http://dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/08/18/labor_day_air.html?sid=101
August 26, 200816 yr Southwest will ground 196 flights Airline will cut 6% of daily scheduled services this coming winter, citing slower traffic; more fare increases likely. August 26, 2008: 11:20 AM EDT DALLAS (AP) -- Southwest Airlines Co., which had resisted the kinds of capacity cuts being made by other carriers, will eliminate nearly 200 flights early next year as it struggles with high fuel costs and a weakening economy. The move raised doubts about the company's publicly stated goal of growing modestly in 2009 despite the airline industry's troubles. Find this article at: http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/26/news/companies/Southwest_cutbacks.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes
August 28, 200816 yr In regards to the subject that only the rich will fly because oil prices have climbed and routes have been reduced, I cite the example of Japan on why this is likely just more blow hard media bs. Japan has the most extensive train network of any country on the planet, has prohibitively high fuel prices according to recent U.S. media standards and has healthy bevy of low cost competition in its' own arena. Yet, the largest domestic air carrier of Japan made a record $450 million for FY '07 (Apr. '07 - Mar. '08) without having only the rich fly. For example, flights between Tokyo Haneda airport to Osaka Itami airport -- a 1 hour one-way trip -- are flown on gas gussling 747's as all economy class seating to compete with the JR bullet trains and they are flown like the DCA-LGA-BOS shuttles. So I find it hard to believe that the days of flying for the general public are over even if prices are climbing in the U.S. to, quite honestly, sane levels. The problem with domestic carriers is service and efficiency not price. The media again is way off base on its understanding of this issue but it does make for "great headlines". :lol:
August 28, 200816 yr United to furlough 1,550 flight attendants MINNEAPOLIS - United Airlines said on Wednesday it will furlough 1,550 flight attendants as it reduces its flying this fall. The furloughs work out to roughly 10 percent of United's cabin workers. United is seeking 7,000 job reductions companywide by the end of 2009, said spokesman Jeff Kovick. United has previously announced plans to cut as many as 1,600 managers and 5,500 front-line workers, and to furlough 950 pilots. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20080828/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_united_flight_attendants
August 28, 200816 yr While the price of fuel is up in Japan, it's not as much as in the U.S. thanks to a more more favorable exchange rate. As you know, oil is traded in dollars worldwide, but since it takes fewer Yen today to buy a dollar, the recent impact on Japan's economy isn't as high as it has been on ours. And taxes have, historically, represented more than half of their fuel price to discourage fuel consumption since Japan produces so little oil themselves. I don't know if their fuel tax policy applies to domestic airline flights, too (I suspect it would, but I can't say for sure). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 28, 200816 yr While the price of fuel is up in Japan, it's not as much as in the U.S. thanks to a more more favorable exchange rate. As you know, oil is traded in dollars worldwide, but since it takes fewer Yen today to buy a dollar, the recent impact on Japan's economy isn't as high as it has been on ours. And taxes have, historically, represented more than half of their fuel price to discourage fuel consumption since Japan produces so little oil themselves. I don't know if their fuel tax policy applies to domestic airline flights, too (I suspect it would, but I can't say for sure). Sure KJP, but oil was already much more expensive in Japan prior to the meteroic increases in prices and are still very high even with the favorable exchange rate (which has slipped back about 15 percent since May) by US Standards. If I am to assume the implications in the articles/op-ed's posted on here by the New Republic and USA Today, very few people should be flying in Japan and flying should be unaffordable to general public. That simply isn't the case. As for Jet A taxes, the airlines don't get free ride. Japan has seen a strong economic downturn due to fuel increases which is tied to a decline in demand in worldwide exports from there. This isn't really news only reported in Japan, CNBC and the like have been reporting on this malaize as long as the US economic downturn. In fact...they're sliping back into stagflation.
August 28, 200816 yr Well, as we've seen from Southwest, you can still run an airline on $115-145 oil and still make money in the U.S., just as JAL and All Nippon can still make money in Japan. Thus, the implication is that the business model followed by other U.S. carriers is what's broken. But I do believe that, at a certain oil price, no airline's business model will work. What's the price? I suspect we'll find out someday. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 30, 200816 yr Southwest did make a successful long term hedge on jet fuel a few years ago. ArmrapinVA, when does this hedge "run out" for them? One thing to remember about Japan is that it is a very densely populated country (their population density is 10 times that of the US). All modes are heavily used because they have to be. Just out of curiosity, how do ticket prices compare?
September 5, 200816 yr SONOFAB!TCH!!!! :x Continental adds $15 fee for FIRST checked bag Posted by rroguski September 05, 2008 10:49AM Continental Airlines passengers flying economy class will now pay $15 for their first checked bag. The fee, aimed at defraying rising fuel costs, starts immediately and applies to all destinations within the United States. It begins Oct. 7 for flights between the United States and Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and Canada. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/realtimenews/index.ssf/2008/09/continental_adds_15_fee_for_fi.html clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
September 6, 200816 yr It appears that the decline and fall of the airline industry may be happening faster than the decline of the private passenger trains, which happened over a period of roughly 20-25 years. Although the pace of the fall accelerated as that time period progressed. And, like the railroads to their passenger trains, the airlines are doing a good job of making flying more and more of a hassle and less customer service oriented. I don't think nickel and dime-ing people for every little thing does much for their image. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better if they would just be straightforward about it and raise their fares.
September 6, 200816 yr I was planning to go to New Jersey this fall and checked Continental's fares to EWR. Ah, WOW! When did flights get so damned expensive!!! I looked at taking Southwest to BWI and taking Amtrak up the Northeast Corridor but SWA has only four round trips daily and no return flights meet my travel needs. So now I'm probably not going to be able to go. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 7, 200816 yr Um, no. I'm trying to plan a group trip to the East Coast for perhaps 15-20 people. Most of these are busy executives and elected officials who can't spare the time for a bus trip of 6-9 hours each way. Now if this was Europe, I'd be able to get them there in 2-3 hours on a train and at a much more affordable rate than flying. But of course, if this was Europe, I wouldn't need leave Ohio to offer a tour of quality rail services! Yours truly after riding from Frankfurt to Cologne to Brussels to Paris at speeds up to 205 mph. The last 300+ miles of the trip, from Brussels to Paris, was covered in 2.5 hours. We did the whole 650 miles in six hours with a one-hour layover in Brussels. A direct train today on the LGV Est line which opened after our 2007 trip travels Frankfurt-Paris in four hours or less: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 7, 200816 yr Now if this was Europe, I'd be able to get them there in 2-3 hours on a train and at a much more affordable rate than flying. But its not Europe, and I think the benefits of living here outweigh having a lousy rail system! Just my opinion. :clap:
September 7, 200816 yr Hey KJP, was your point of departure Cleveland or Columbus? I have Southwest leaving CMH to BWI on Sep 7 and back on Sep 8 for $262 round trip, plus taxes and fees. CMH-PHL is $274 Fares are lower with a longer lead time: Oct 7-9: CMH-BWI: $118 + fees and taxes CMH-PHL: $138 + fees and taxes These are internet-only reservations. Low fares? We gottem!!! Come to Columbus. On second glance I see the same low fares from Cleveland to BWI on Oct 7-9...hmmmm...maybe you should take another look.
September 7, 200816 yr Hey KJP, was your point of departure Cleveland or Columbus? I have Southwest leaving CMH to BWI on Sep 7 and back on Sep 8 for $262 round trip, plus taxes and fees. CMH-PHL is $274 Fares are lower with a longer lead time: Oct 7-9: CMH-BWI: $118 + fees and taxes CMH-PHL: $138 + fees and taxes These are internet-only reservations. Low fares? We gottem!!! Come to Columbus. On second glance I see the same low fares from Cleveland to BWI on Oct 7-9...hmmmm...maybe you should take another look. again, where in New Jersey is your meeting. It's possible, continental or american could have a weekend special.
September 8, 200816 yr Let me provide more information at the Lorain - Cleveland commuter rail thread. As to America being nicer than Europe aside from the rail system, I disagree. America is a nice address but that's it. We have more creature comforts available like more air conditioning, elevators, drive-throughs, parking lots, etc. But you don't miss them because the weather in temperate, you walk everywhere and get to experience some great architecture, cool cafes, nooks and crannies and a history which too many Americans can't wrap their imaginations around. The lack of elevators was a bummer with all the luggage we had, but I lost 20 pounds in Europe. No wonder American's are such fat asses (we also have fattier foods, we walk less and rely on all those creature comforts). And to bring this thread back to its purpose, there are still some very good air fares to Europe. In the off-season last March, we flew round-trip to Bristol via Newark for less than $450 and caught the train to London from there (cost another $40 RT). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 15, 200816 yr Well, as we've seen from Southwest, you can still run an airline on $115-145 oil and still make money in the U.S., just as JAL and All Nippon can still make money in Japan. Thus, the implication is that the business model followed by other U.S. carriers is what's broken. But I do believe that, at a certain oil price, no airline's business model will work. What's the price? I suspect we'll find out someday. First, ANA is not just making money, they're setting records for profitiablilty. So is Qatar, Singapore and Emirates. Second, JAL is the largest international carrier in Japan and is actually recovering from finanical losses in mid-decade. Let me repeat that, they're making money in an environment where Jet fuel 4x what it was just 3 years ago. They were losing money at $50/barrel, and made it at $90/barrel. There are no tricks to the Japanese aviation system as I think Gildone is trying to imply. They have low cost carriers like AirDo and Skymark that are Japanese equivalents of SW. They pay the rising costs of Jetfuel. Their passengers do pay a bit more, only because, even at 106:1, the yen is no bargain against the dollar and the level of service is far higher than most US mainline carriers. To be honest, Japan airlines are at distinct disadvantage to American carriers due to the long term domestic economic stagflation, the issues of the population plateau and the level of competition from different modes of transportation. Simply put...in Asia...people will pay more if they get a high level of service. In the US, most people flying today are wanting a higher level of service and then expect something for next to nothing. Look at Skybus. Ten dollar seats to St. Augustine. Give me a break. So the US airlines are screwed by the consumer for the most part. Again it's service and efficency that offsets the fuel factor that makes this aviation market hum. Hell, even in the American environment, at $100/barrel, many US legacy carriers posted an operational profit. So it's no impossible, and the airlines are far from dead. Most of the airlines that have crashed had insanely stupid ideas (Skybus, Zoom), or were to small to compete against the big boys (MaxJet, EOS). Contraction happens all the time in the newspaper industry, yet never gets reported like it's the end of the world. I wonder why? :D Anyway, until American consumers get it, they'll be looking at carriers posting in the red and they'll be focusing about the wrong things thanks to "big media".
September 15, 200816 yr I agree with AmrapinVa...........service, service, service goes along way. I would Fly Singapore, Emirates or Virgin in a heartbeat over a domestic airline! I took Continental to China and Air China back to the states. It was like Night and Day! Jet Airways is supposedly the best airline all around, from the program, lounges, planes and service and I can't wait to have a reason to fly them. People will pay big money for service, amenities, and on time performance. Domestically, we're spoiled with weekend specials and dirt cheap fare. Or hotel rooms on hotwire/travelocity where you can book a $500 night hotel room for $200 a night, yet at the same time want to complain about cramped seats, no or bad food on the flight or the floor your hotel room is on. I know this is going to come across offensive, but if you want all the bells and whistles, you're going to have to pay for it.
September 30, 200816 yr From Richard Heinberg at the Post Carbon Institute: http://postcarbon.org/jet_set The Jet Set Submitted by Richard Heinberg on September 24, 2008 - 2:20pm. I’m just back from the excellent ASPO USA conference in Sacramento, where (among many other fascinating conversations) I enjoyed an illuminating discussion with a couple of air transport officials whose names and organizational affiliations shall remain confidential. They were much more candid than the scheduled speaker Michael Boyd, who regaled us over lunch about the minor modifications that the chronically inefficient airline industry may have to contemplate in the near future. My private interlocutors were more blunt. Over the next decade, the industry will undergo an overwhelming transformation. Today businesspeople and middle-class vacationers regard air travel as a normal and affordable, if increasingly tedious, option for getting from anywhere to anywhere else in a few hours. But as fuel becomes scarce and costly, airlines will go bankrupt and consolidate; most planes will be grounded and mothballed; routes will be cut. Small cities will lose commercial service altogether. Whole terminals at larger airports will be closed permanently. Air service will continue to connect large cities, but flights will be fewer and slower (speed reduces fuel efficiency), with every seat filled. And those flights will be much more expensive. In short, we will be returning to the days of the Jet Set, when only the wealthy flew. People were simply less mobile in the 1950s than they are today. And the future will likewise be characterized by declining mobility. The implications are far-reaching and take a while to appreciate. Think of the impacts to tourism, (including all its subsidiary components such as the hotel industry and the car rental companies), universities, far-flung families, the entertainment industry, scientific research. . . . Of course for the time being we will still need a few vertical-takeoff vehicles so that “Helicopter Ben” Bernanke can make his rounds, dropping billion-dollar checks on beleaguered bankers. But for the rest of us, there may be no better investment than a durable pair of shoes.
October 7, 200816 yr A Downside of Cheap Fares: Flight Cuts by Scott McCartney Friday, October 3, 2008 Routes Vanish in Low-Fare Cities; Grounding 737s Oakland International Airport has ridden the wave of rapidly growing discount airlines to a 58% increase in passengers over the past 10 years. And now Oakland is in the vanguard of the next giant trend in aviation. http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/105888/A-Downside-of-Cheap-Fares-Flight-Cuts
October 8, 200816 yr AmrapinVA said: There are no tricks to the Japanese aviation system as I think Gildone is trying to imply. I just saw your post, AmrapinVA. I'm not trying to imply anything about "tricks" with the Japanese aviation system. I made a simple statement and asked a straightforward question in the hope of receiving constructive feedback and information to help clarify things. So they pay "a bit more" in Japan. How much more? If they are doing better than US airlines, I'm just trying to understand the reasons as to why. So the US airlines are screwed by the consumer for the most part. I don't think you can blame the consumer. If people aren't willing to pay the price, then the supply has to shrink accordingly. That's how the marketplace works.
October 8, 200816 yr http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3835521&_action=validatearticle Report: Cleveland To New York Flight Late Every Time 10-08-2008 7:05 AM (Cleveland, OH) -- Along with death and taxes, passengers on a Cleveland-to-New York flight can guarantee being late. The federal government's latest survey of on-time arrivals shows a Comair flight from Hopkins International Airport to John F. Kennedy International Airport was late 100 percent of the time in August. Flight 5109 was an average of 47 minutes behind schedule. The problem is blamed on a jumble of jets in the airspace over New York, forcing the flight to circle the airport several times before landing. The U.S. Department of Transportation considers a flight late if it arrives 15 minutes or more behind schedule. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 8, 200816 yr But its not Europe, and I think the benefits of living here outweigh having a lousy rail system! Just my opinion. :clap: You tell 'em, DanB. Who cares if we fall behind in transportation, education, and technology. We're still Americans, which right there just automatically makes us superior to everyone! All that other junk makes you an elitist anyways.
October 15, 200816 yr AmrapinVA said: There are no tricks to the Japanese aviation system as I think Gildone is trying to imply. I just saw your post, AmrapinVA. I'm not trying to imply anything about "tricks" with the Japanese aviation system. I made a simple statement and asked a straightforward question in the hope of receiving constructive feedback and information to help clarify things. So they pay "a bit more" in Japan. How much more? If they are doing better than US airlines, I'm just trying to understand the reasons as to why. So the US airlines are screwed by the consumer for the most part. I don't think you can blame the consumer. If people aren't willing to pay the price, then the supply has to shrink accordingly. That's how the marketplace works. I think my answer was pretty straightforward...but if you want to know prices of some domestic/international routing, I'm more than happy to provide them. My conversion from Yen:Dollar will be 100:1 it's pretty close to that these days. These are average fares, there are many larger discounts available (just like the U.S.): Tokyo - Osaka/Kobe: $190 one-way on a legacy, $100 one-way on a discount carrier. Tokyo - Fukuoka: $310 legacy, $210 discount. Tokyo - Sapporo: $300 legacy, $190 discount. Osaka - Sapporo: $380 legacy. Osaka - Fukuoka: $210 legacy. Now mind you, Japan has one helluva extensive high-speed rail system. In fact Honshu and Hokkaido are now connected by tunnels, so you can take a train from Fukuoka to Sapporo if you wish now. Even so, this multi-modal transportation system hasn't worked against the airlines in terms of service and price as some have contended here as a forecast for the future of U.S. Aviation. You don't see mass abandonment of their airports. You don't see "only the rich" flying. In fact Narita and Haneda are expanding, Osaka has recently opened a new international airport, and Sapporo opened their new international airport only a few years back. As for international....JAL/ANA charge from as little as $1000 one-way from North America-Japan-SE Asia. Mind you, unrestricted First Class tickets can go as high as $12K one way and demand is increasing (dare I say boom) for these fares as most European and American carriers continue to cut service in all classes. So, when I look this concrete example, I have to take the naysayers with a grain (actually a pound) of salt. A profitable multi-modal transportation system is not out of the reach of the U.S. Basically, airlines in the U.S. need to stop being knee-jerk and play the game of being an international version of Southwest. It's not working and they are getting stomped. Again, the story is being reported wrong. BTW, the consumer drives any market. The U.S. consumer has said it will take price over any other deciding factor in order to fly (including safety). It will cost the U.S carriers in the long run if they continue to cater to this demand even with oil prices at $75/barrel.
October 15, 200816 yr http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3835521&_action=validatearticle Report: Cleveland To New York Flight Late Every Time 10-08-2008 7:05 AM (Cleveland, OH) -- Along with death and taxes, passengers on a Cleveland-to-New York flight can guarantee being late. The federal government's latest survey of on-time arrivals shows a Comair flight from Hopkins International Airport to John F. Kennedy International Airport was late 100 percent of the time in August. Flight 5109 was an average of 47 minutes behind schedule. The problem is blamed on a jumble of jets in the airspace over New York, forcing the flight to circle the airport several times before landing. The U.S. Department of Transportation considers a flight late if it arrives 15 minutes or more behind schedule. Ironically, Ken, this actually means that operational demand is high in the New York airspace. So I'm not quite sure how it's a "woe". It means demand is still high for arrivals into JFK.
October 15, 200816 yr If you're on a flight that's chronically late, wouldn't you consider that a "woe"? Delayed flights are also more costly to the airlines, thus another woe but one that is more general. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 200816 yr If you're on a flight that's chronically late, wouldn't you consider that a "woe"? Delayed flights are also more costly to the airlines, thus another woe but one that is more general. KJP, almost every flight departing/arriving into an airport from Richmond to Boston is "delayed" on a daily basis. Thank goodness the NYC area airports are going to slot control like LGA.
October 15, 200816 yr If you're on a flight that's chronically late, wouldn't you consider that a "woe"? Delayed flights are also more costly to the airlines, thus another woe but one that is more general. Oh, OK. I'll take that woe. I don't like to put "on-time" stats over safety.
October 15, 200816 yr AmrapinVA, Thanks for the reply. How do the city pairs you list compare to city pairs in the US (i.e. approximately same distance)? I only have more questions though... how does the cost structure of Japanese airlines compare to US ones? Labor costs, employee health care, level of government subsidies-- both direct (if any) and indirect, route structures etc. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to get an accurate a comparison as possible so I better understand the range of differences and flaws in the US aviation system. Interesting presentation on the state of the US Airline industry was given at the recent ASPO-USA conference in Sacramento: http://www.aspo-usa.org/aspousa4/proceedings/Boyd_Michael_ASPOUSA2008.pdf Interesting item mentioned was the archaic nature of our air traffic control system and associated routings wastes 15% of the airlines' fuel. That's pretty significant, if you ask me. The sad part is our government has no immediate plans to upgrade our ATC system. I've read about this before (and made passing comments about it somewhere on UO too, I think). The state of our infrastructure really stinks... An attendee at the conference posted his notes at the ASPO site. Apparently the man who gave the presentation, Michael Boyd, made the following statement at some point during it: "We can put a man on the moon, but are totally incompetent at creating a rail network that works!" He was getting at the lack of intermodal connections in our transport system. He said the airlines need to be more like Southwest too.
October 20, 200816 yr Flying traitors: 3 reasons air travel is un-American Divisive industry is unfair, and it's time travelers do something about it OPINION By Christopher Elliott Travel columnist updated 9:13 a.m. ET, Mon., Oct. 20, 2008 What’s so fair about flying? If you said “nothing,” you’re right. Air travel has become so Balkanized in the last few months that flying is — and I want to be careful not to overstate this — almost un-American. But let’s stay positive for a second. Airlines remain egalitarian in a few small but important ways. Everyone on a commercial air carrier — from the triple-titanium elite flier to the prisoner shackled to the back row of economy class — shares a plane. They breathe the same recycled air and experience the same intolerably long delays. As travel blogger Pam Mandel observes, “it’s awful for everyone.” URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27241574/
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