^This is a totally fair point, and why it's good there's been vigorous enforcement in this case, even if there haven't been any credible allegation that's what actually happened.

 

I wonder if resigning from council when he did was part of a deal he made with the Ethics Commission.

seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

 

It's a good to see the ethics rules enforced vigorously, and he did screw up, but I agree this is a big pile of nothing in terms of actual corruption. Whether he'd had abstained or not would have made zero difference. Even without Cimperman in office, LAND is pretty much the only outside party the city trusts to shepherd big projects of this nature through. Not at all the same thing as public officials steering contract to shadowy consultants or contractors with murky ownership.

 

it's not the same thing as steering contracts to shadowy consultants or contrators - LAND Studio & Park Works are non-profit, right? 

 

Salaries at legitimate businesses are the way this is often done.  It doesn't have to involve a company that sounds like Grifter & Sons Garbage Cartage.

 

well that didn't take long - you just compared a non-profit parks designer to a mob outfit.  Congrats

Everyone remember when someone firebombed Cimperman's house? I wonder what the hell that was really about.

Everyone remember when someone firebombed Cimperman's house? I wonder what the hell that was really about.

 

Obviously it was another non-profit park designer making sure he got the message... ;-)

Everyone remember when someone firebombed Cimperman's house? I wonder what the hell that was really about.

 

Obviously it was another non-profit park designer making sure he got the message... ;-)

 

Those public art people are ruthless AF.  ;D

seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

 

It's a good to see the ethics rules enforced vigorously, and he did screw up, but I agree this is a big pile of nothing in terms of actual corruption. Whether he'd had abstained or not would have made zero difference. Even without Cimperman in office, LAND is pretty much the only outside party the city trusts to shepherd big projects of this nature through. Not at all the same thing as public officials steering contract to shadowy consultants or contractors with murky ownership.

 

it's not the same thing as steering contracts to shadowy consultants or contrators - LAND Studio & Park Works are non-profit, right? 

 

Salaries at legitimate businesses are the way this is often done.  It doesn't have to involve a company that sounds like Grifter & Sons Garbage Cartage.

 

well that didn't take long - you just compared a non-profit parks designer to a mob outfit.  Congrats

 

How is that relevant?  Non-profit parks designers shouldn't have government officials in their pockets. 

I used to work with a number of council people on the west side and this kind of low-level corruption/incompetence is rife. It’s almost all petty at the council level, so any individual action will seem relatively inconsequential. But it’s nice to see one of these little princes get called out for once. It’s especially sweet considering how Cimperman never missed a chance to be on camera.

Parkwork's should have known Nora Romanoff had an inside track to winning contracts for their organization.  Also Ann Zoller worked for the City of Cleveland. Should  This is the problem I have with LAND Studio having too many connections with council to be awarded as many projects as they have been given.  While LAND Studio has done some great work , I question how every project has been awarded to just one organization.  I would love to see some other non profits point of view on Public Art be represented.  I also want LAND Studio to be held responsible for completing/repairing the "temporary" design flaws that were brought forth for safety reasons.

Everyone remember when someone firebombed Cimperman's house? I wonder what the hell that was really about.

 

The firebombing was revenge from the leader of a violent drug ring that was thrown in jail. Joe was involved helping put the guy behind bars after they had done some pretty evil **** to some residents in Joe's ward near Clark ave.

Everyone remember when someone firebombed Cimperman's house? I wonder what the hell that was really about.

 

The firebombing was revenge from the leader of a violent drug ring that was thrown in jail. Joe was involved helping put the guy behind bars after they had done some pretty evil **** to some residents in Joe's ward near Clark ave.

 

Wow. I'm surprised Scene Mag wasn't all over this.

Is the Tremonster still stirring the feces since Cimperman left office?  It always seemed like the former's main role was to set up the latter to play hero.

seems very petty to me.  Aren't most council decisions voted on nearly unanimously?  So was Cimperman the only vote for his wife's employer?  I guess he should have abtained from any vote that involved this firm?

 

It's a good to see the ethics rules enforced vigorously, and he did screw up, but I agree this is a big pile of nothing in terms of actual corruption. Whether he'd had abstained or not would have made zero difference. Even without Cimperman in office, LAND is pretty much the only outside party the city trusts to shepherd big projects of this nature through. Not at all the same thing as public officials steering contract to shadowy consultants or contractors with murky ownership.

 

it's not the same thing as steering contracts to shadowy consultants or contrators - LAND Studio & Park Works are non-profit, right? 

 

It employs people so the more business it gets the better for the employees.

Son of Cleveland Councilman Ken Johnson lives in house owned by neighborhood group supported by his father

https://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2018/07/son_of_cleveland_councilman_ke.html?utm_campaign=cleve_sf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Buckeye-Shaker CDC has been cut off from federal funds because Ken Johnson was funneling that money to a crony landscaping business that employs Johnson's son and his assistant.  This funding was supposed to "act as a catalyst for commercial and housing development" in this distressed area.  New rules will limit the amount of federal funds that can be used for mowing vacant lots.

 

Don't tell me there's no money for redeveloping these neighborhoods.  Don't tell me the market is forcing us to use shipping containers for buildings.  We have money and it keeps getting stolen, over and over again, because people like this remain in charge of our community.  How is this person still on city council? 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2018/07/cleveland_councilman_ken_johns_1.html

 

 

Further exploits of Cleveland's most filthy public official.  Note that the mayor's office isn't sure what sort of nepotism restrictions we might have or not have.

 

"Cleveland Councilman Ken Johnson disavows being father of two rec center employees he earlier claimed were his kids"

 

https://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2018/09/cleveland_councilman_ken_johns_3.html

Further exploits of Cleveland's most filthy public official.  Note that the mayor's office isn't sure what sort of nepotism restrictions we might have or not have.

 

"Cleveland Councilman Ken Johnson disavows being father of two rec center employees he earlier claimed were his kids"

 

https://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2018/09/cleveland_councilman_ken_johns_3.html

 

LOL.  Awesome.  You can't make that stuff up. 

without knowing much of anything about this story, it sure sounds like Ken Johnson is the troll of trolls lol

 

Mixed feelings on this.   Can we just decide which council people to cut?  I nominate Dona Brady.  

 

Cleveland City Council Reduction, Pay Cut Heads To March Ballot

 

https://www.ideastream.org/news/cleveland-city-council-reduction-pay-cut-heads-to-march-ballot

26 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Mixed feelings on this.   Can we just decide which council people to cut?  I nominate Dona Brady.  

 

Cleveland City Council Reduction, Pay Cut Heads To March Ballot

 

https://www.ideastream.org/news/cleveland-city-council-reduction-pay-cut-heads-to-march-ballot

Maybe I'm naive but maybe expanded ward boundaries would broaden electorates and help the better council reps get elected. 

A petition funded by a right-wing millionaire from Westlake? Sounds great!

23 hours ago, freefourur said:

Maybe I'm naive but maybe expanded ward boundaries would broaden electorates and help the better council reps get elected. 

 

Maybe, but I think the larger downside is that one would now have to either be rich or raise a whole lot more money to campaign in those expanded wards. Not to mention when you get to office you'll now make less but still have the same staff size (our city council might pay council members more than other cities, but our council also has a much smaller staff size). Then while making less you now have more constituents and a larger geography that you are responsible for, and those citizens and places might have very different needs, making it much harder for you to work for your constituents. Given all of that, how would this proposal make city council better? If anything this could shrink the pool of good, qualified people who want to run for office.

 

Not to say that I am happy with council in it's current form. There are definitely changes I would like to see, including the following:

• Re-draw boundaries to match communities/get rid of some of our gerrymandered wards (bye Dona Brady!)
• No longer allow resigning council members to pick their replacements
  • Or at least cut down the time frame in which members are allowed to pick a replacement
  • Ex: if a council member has a 1+ year left in their term, have a special election
• Reduce the number of council members (due to population decline), but to 15, not to 9 like in the ballot proposal 
  • AND/OR convert some members (1-3) to At-Large positions

Edited January 9, 20205 yr by andrew0816
For clarity

Term limits would help get rid of some of the long term council members that are dug into their wards.

1 hour ago, andrew0816 said:

 

• No longer allow resigning council members to pick their replacements
  • Or at least cut down the time frame in which members are allowed to pick a replacement
  • Ex: if a council member has a 1+ year left in their term, have a special election
• • AND/OR convert some members (1-3) to At-Large positions

Definitely on board with these two. Not a fan of term limits...I think they affect system stability and institutional knowledge. Plus, see the Ohio Statehouse...the reps just end up gaming the system to stay in office as long as they want anyway.

 

My problem is that Council (and the local Democratic Party) will outcast and blackball you if you try and primary a sitting member. That’s what is really stifling any competition and choice for constituents, and let’s the incumbents sit there as long as they please.

Edited January 9, 20205 yr by Enginerd

1 hour ago, Enginerd said:

Definitely on board with these two. Not a fan of term limits...I think they affect system stability and institutional knowledge. Plus, see the Ohio Statehouse...the reps just end up gaming the system to stay in office as long as they want anyway.

 

My problem is that Council (and the local Democratic Party) will outcast and blackball you if you try and primary a sitting member. That’s what is really stifling any competition and choice for constituents, and let’s the incumbents sit there as long as they please.

Problem is that term limits might be the only way to get rid of sitting members.

I think nine is MORE than enough, and there should be "At large" members as well.  I just can't understand the large council better representation argument.  How can other cities, larger and more successful, have smaller councils but somehow it won't work here?  I am a city employee, and have attended meetings, only to see a room full of people (at least the ones that show up) sitting around the chamber, not paying a damn bit of attention to anyone else or anything, until it was their turn to speak.  Sit nine people at a table and get things done!

On 1/9/2020 at 1:20 PM, Mendo said:

Term limits would help get rid of some of the long term council members that are dug into their wards.

 

And be the worst thing that could happen to Collinwood.  Polensek got like 88% of the vote last time and there are reasons.

 

My general politics should favor reduction, but I don't.   The way Cleveland is set up. each councilman is a mini mayor of sorts.   The good ones help their wards.

 

Besides, county council is that size and it may be the worst elected body in the state.

I almost don't believe my eyes.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/01/27/cleveland-city-councilwoman-dona-brady-is-stepping-down

 

Quote

Cleveland City Councilwoman Dona Brady is Stepping Down

Cleveland City Councilwoman Dona Brady announced at Monday night's council meeting that she will step down from her Ward 11 seat. Brady has served on council since 1999 and represents portions of the west side neighborhoods of Edgewater, Cudell, West Boulevard, Jefferson and Bellaire-Puritas.

"I am grateful to have served my hometown as a public official," she said in brief remarks.

In recent months, Brady has been at the center of a controversy regarding shelter for the homeless in her ward. The nonprofit Metanoia Project partnered with the Denison Avenue United Church of Christ to provide emergency overnight shelter during the cold-weather months for those who are unable or unwilling to access other shelters.

...

 

Bye. Don't let the door hit ya where the lord split ya....

 

 

Who will be her replacement? I know the article said she didn't say who--but if she leaves office this Friday, vs, a month ago, there will not be need for an election--so i assume she has a replacement in mind.

11 hours ago, Pugu said:

Who will be her replacement? I know the article said she didn't say who--but if she leaves office this Friday, vs, a month ago, there will not be need for an election--so i assume she has a replacement in mind.

 

What's the odds it will be a wholly-unqualified family member?  

 

 

I saw a comment on Cleveland.com where someone suggested that Dan Brady was going to run for County Exec and she was going to take his place on County Council...  seems pretty reasonable.  I'm still in disbelief that Dan beat out Chris Ronayne for that position so many years ago.  Dan didn't even campaign.  Sad commentary on the voters.

 

I'm not really convinced the measure to reduce council size and salary will pass.  How many voters will turn out for this?  How informed are they?

 

I don't actually support term limits because of the good work of people like Polensek but I would definitely support reducing council wards and adding a handful of "at large" representatives to ensure some good policy is implemented

Edited January 28, 20205 yr by gottaplan

On 1/28/2020 at 9:53 AM, gottaplan said:

I'm not really convinced the measure to reduce council size and salary will pass.  How many voters will turn out for this?  How informed are they?

 

I don't actually support term limits because of the good work of people like Polensek but I would definitely support reducing council wards and adding a handful of "at large" representatives to ensure some good policy is implemented

 

Agreed on this--hopefully council will hear some of the arguments from constituents after this BS Tony George initiative passes.  

It's a shame everyone in Cleveland proper can't get something on the ballot in Westlake to screw with him.  

Good news: Ballot Measures To Reduce Pay And Size Of Cleveland City Council Shelved

 

https://wcpn.ideastream.org/news/ballot-measures-to-reduce-pay-and-size-of-cleveland-city-council-shelved

 

“The group aiming to reduce the size and pay of Cleveland City Council will remove those two measures from the March ballot and will instead support a study from an accredited university that will make recommendations about the 17-member body.”

 

 

One man's good news is another's bad. The pay should remain, but the size needs to contract.

 

Though this quote probably didn't help: "You got Little Italy, then you got Tremont, Ohio City, Playhouse Square, Kamm's Corner, Detroit Shoreway and in between, no disrespect because it's not the council people's faults, it's the leadership and the mayor's fault, you've got Afghanistan and Iraq," George said. "It's unsafe."

 

A wealthy guy from Westlake should be sensitive with that kind of rhetoric. 

 

 

I wonder what kind of backlash George received to back down so quickly?   

48 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I wonder what kind of backlash George received to back down so quickly?   

 

Did you just spell "baksheesh" wrong, I wonder.

 

Say what you want about George, he doesn't cave to threats  easy or often.   

Edited February 3, 20205 yr by E Rocc

21 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Did you just spell "baksheesh" wrong, I wonder.

 

Say what you want about George, he doesn't cave to threats  easy or often.   

 

Well, in this case he went from ballot issue to "well maybe a academic university study is more appropriate" in a matter of a couple weeks.   Caved he did.  

12 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Well, in this case he went from ballot issue to "well maybe a academic university study is more appropriate" in a matter of a couple weeks.   Caved he did.  

 

Or got what he wanted in exchange for dropping it.

Most likely.

^Continued free parking on Public Square? 

16 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Or got what he wanted in exchange for dropping it.

 

We shall see if he actually pays for a "libtard" university study....

7 hours ago, TBideon said:

One man's good news is another's bad. The pay should remain, but the size needs to contract.

 

For the most part I agree with you on reducing the size of council, and I think making some of the seats at-large would also be good. I was primarily concerned with the drastic pay cut. It’s hard enough to get good candidates to run. 

^If other cities have at-large seats, how do they do them? Are some seats for specific wards/districts and some are at-large?  And what cities do this?  

 

I'm glad this thing was taken off the ballot. Lowering pay was just crazy (and sounds vindictive) and reducing seats also not a good idea. I remember when we had 33-members for Council. How would any committee work get done with only 9 members? everyone would be on the same committees. Makes no sense for a city the size and stature of Cleveland.

On 2/3/2020 at 8:43 PM, Pugu said:

^If other cities have at-large seats, how do they do them? Are some seats for specific wards/districts and some are at-large?  And what cities do this?  

 

I'm glad this thing was taken off the ballot. Lowering pay was just crazy (and sounds vindictive) and reducing seats also not a good idea. I remember when we had 33-members for Council. How would any committee work get done with only 9 members? everyone would be on the same committees. Makes no sense for a city the size and stature of Cleveland.

 

It depends on the city, some have a mix of ward and at-large council members, some have one or the other. My hometown (Mansfield) has a mix of ward and at-large seats. Akron also has a mix (13 total, 3 of which are at-large).

 

Cincinnati has a 9 member city council and all seats are at-large (interestingly until 1925 they had 32 members and it was a mix of at-large and ward seats). Columbus is also all at-large seats (7 total), but I believe there have been issues with council and wanting to change the make-up or rules. Like Cleveland, they've also had issues with resigning members appointing their replacements who then get an unfair advantage when the voters finally get a chance to have a say.

 

As for other cities:

• Detroit - Mix (9 total, 2 at-large)
• Pittsburgh - Ward (9)
• Minneapolis - Ward (13)
• Milwaukee - Ward (15)
• Nashville - Mix (40 total, 5 at-large but note they have a consolidated city-county government)
• Chicago - Ward (50)
• Los Angeles - Ward (15)
• Seattle - Mix (9, 2 at-large)
• Atlanta - Mix (16, 3 at-large and a separately elected council president)
• Denver - Mix (13, 2 at-large)
• Houston - Mix (16, 5 at-large)

 

I've said this before, but I think having a mix of wards and at-large members would be better as there are major draw backs from having just one or the other. We also need major reforms for how council functions (like how we replace resigning members) and there were definitely shenanigans pulled when our ward boundaries were last redrawn (lookin at you wards 1, 6, 10 and 11). And since our city had previously amended the charter to tie the number of seats to population, I think we'll probably loose a seat or two after the 2020 census numbers come out.

Edited February 6, 20205 yr by andrew0816
For clarity

^Thanks.

 

With the seats tied to population, is there a cap?   That is, if we had 200,000 MORE people, do we then have to add 8 more council people?

 

I definitely like the idea of a council person being an advocate of a given area---that's how legislature should work. Imagine if Congress was at large, who would look out for North Dakota?  But the idea of a few 'at-large' seats are interesting too as it may serve as a better check on the mayor and also individual council members that may be doing shady things---it would allow other council people 'access' into that once-protected ward.

 

Looking at the number of council people by city, there's no way CLE should go from 17 to 9.  We are fine with 17--and that's a bare minimum--i'd say we were better off with 21.

Not related to ward/at-large split, but I went through a couple years ago and researched the city councils of the 100 largest cities in the US and ranked them by city council members per capita. Cleveland ranked 6th in the country as having the largest city council per capita. Full 100: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B16RJdSArUFaT2tva29ZRFdvY1U/view?usp=sharing 

^Great list, thank you. Its amazing how SMALL LA's city council is--only 15 people. NYC at 51 seems about right. St. Louis at 28 reminds me of how CLE used be at 33 when I was growing up.

 

The responsibilities of cities varies by state----so comparing CLE using per capita to places without home rule or where its not practiced won't give very usable outputs.

What would Cleveland look like with nine wards? Dramatically larger wards with diminished neighborhood identities

Robert Higgs - Feb. 6, 2020 - 11:19 AM

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/what-would-cleveland-look-like-with-nine-wards-dramatically-larger-wards-with-diminished-neighborhood-identities.html

 

"Today, cleveland.com offers one possible scenario. Using the most recent U.S. Census population estimates, from 2014-2018, we created nine wards that have roughly equal populations and have as few as possible neighborhoods straddling ward lines. Our approach is just one of many approaches possible. But it provides a look at the impact the reduction issue could have."