I nearly burst out laughing when I read that headline.  Ohhh the puns...

Don't get me started....cause i'm not one to gossip, however, "how you doin??"

 

I think "it's" a little more than gossip...if you want real gossip, let's discuss Marcia Fudge!  ;)

 

Do tell!  I'm all ears.. literally!

 

We're getting waaayy off-topic here, but let's just say that the same gossip you were referring to in regards to Zack Reed would equally and with apparently good authority apply to Congresswoman Fudge. 

 

I was at a BBQ this weekend in Cleveland Hts.  There were quite a few service employees (Police [CH has the phynest policeman!], Fire, Medical) and I did hear.....ummmm.   

maybe when Zack goes to San Fran he can get some lessons on not being such a narrow minded homophobe

 

Honey, that is the irony!

 

but i'm not one to gossip, so you didn't hear it from me!

I have never been shy about calling out phoney city officals

I have never been shy about calling out phoney city officals

 

We'll open up the closet doors and say, "how you doin?" to a few council folks!!

 

But again, i'm not one to gossip.....

I hear  what you are saying and concur. I am one to gossip  :yap:, but not here.

maybe when Zack goes to San Fran he can get some lessons on not being such a narrow minded homophobe

 

It's well known that Zack Reed has frequented several of Cleveland's gay bars. I saw him at the Grid a few years back and he seemed *quite* comfortable being there.

He likes to go to all the hot spots, but, isnt he one of the ones who did not want the domestic registry?

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1228815179101420.xml&coll=2

Well - according to him, he was contacted by the clergy of his constituency who encouraged him to vote against the registry.

thats a bunch a BS, what a hypocrite. As MTS indicated how many closeted council people do we really need.

I think the original city council thread is at the cleaners so we'll start off with one of the most boneheaded, immature, petty and self-absorbed moves by council president Sweeney since his sexual harassment scandal that cost taxpayers $90K to go away. In the 2010 assignments, he's removing Joe Cimperman from the Planning Commission and putting Phyllis Cleveland in his place.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2010/01/cleveland_city_council_preside_1.html

Uh-oh.  This is very bad.

Nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face.  Thanks Marty.

WTF dude, WTF.

Has Joe C commented on this yet?  He's got to be pissed unless there is some other rationale we are not aware of.

^From what I'm reading on cleveland.com, it sounds like political retribution.

If he put 1/2 the energy into health and human services (dear to my heart)  as he does special and questionable special interests, I take back 1/2 of what I said about him.

I don't know if you guys are upset about JC leaving, PC being appointed, or MS pulling this move, but I feel like this is a little blown out of proportion.

 

Anyways, here are my thoughts:

 

1)  There are still six competent longstanding commission members, plus the charter amendment was approved for alternates to be put in place.

 

2)  Commission members don't necessary have to have a comprehensive design background to be effective contributors.  PC may not have the same planning-related credentials as some of the other commission members, but she has played a role in many, many development projects (such as the Garden Valley redevelopment) occurring in her ward, attended local design review meetings for the three committees in her area, has been part of several citizen-driven master planning processes, etc.  I'm certain that she's gained design skills during her tenure. 

 

3)  Change and a fresh perspective are good a lot of times.

 

Dog's life on a chain may become illegal in Cleveland; cats show off in Parma: Animals in the News

Published: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 10:00 AM    Updated: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 2:56 PM

  By Donna J. Miller, Plain Dealer reporter

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland officials are discussing an ordinance introduced by Councilmen Terrell Pruitt and Matt Zone that would outlaw a common sight in the city -- dogs chained outside around the clock.

 

The bill would prohibit tethering animals between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. and for longer than three hours a day. Ropes or chains would have to be at least 20 feet long.

 

Tethering would also be banned when heat or tornado warnings have been issued. Choke, prong and ill-fitting collars would not be allowed. And tethered animals would have to have access to shade, dry shelters and tip-proof water containers.

 

...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/_animals_in_the_news_79.html

 

Comments don't disappoint as right on cue someone is arguing that we should let all domesticated animals freely roam the city.

I have to say, this whole Ken Johnson double-dipping controversy has left a sour taste in my mouth regarding local politics here in Cleveland. I e-mailed my councilman, Cimperman, who has nothing to say about this, but Brian Cummins, who voiced opposition, gave me a nice response that made me feel a little bit better that somebody gets what's wrong with this situation. I just want elected officials to put the taxpayers first instead of their bank accounts.

 

Mark Naymik sums the situation up well in his latest article. http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_city_council_stands.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Cleveland City Council never ceases to disappoint.  What even qualifies Ken Johnson to be a council member in the first place?  Cimperman is probably the best of them, but as a group, they enact legislation on dogs being chained up and banning text messaging while the city declines around them.

Um... yeah... since when can elected officials appoint themselves back into the position they effectively resigned from without a vote from the people? This pisses me off and I dont even live in the City.

I agree about CImperman.  He seems to be a true leader and cares for his people.

 

Regarding council as a whole, its pretty sad, but these guys are no more qualified for those jobs than anyone on this board.  You need some public speaking skills and an ounce of leadership.  A true council person would consult his/her constituents before making decisions that impact everyone and then represent them.  Thats not going on here.  Im looking at you, near west side councilperson.

Although there is most definitely some self-serving here, I believe one of the main reasons this double dipping is happening is more due to the recent changes in the Ohio PERS program. Many long-time employees who contribute to the retirement system for many years were going to see a significant portion of their retirement lost. Besides the councilman, Craig Hebebrand (ODOT Dist. 12/Innerbelt construction manager), and my director were both forced to retire

You'd be hard pressed to find a major municipality...... maybe even a small village or township...... that doesn't have someone on the books who is technically "double-dipping".  This is an issue to raise down in Columbus as it is allowed under the law.  And it's not like the City of Cleveland is losing any money over this.  Someone would be filling that seat and receiving that salary and Johnson would still be receiving his pension.  I get that it doesn't pass the smell test, but let's not pretend that the City and its constituents are paying twice here.

Well, deservedly, they are getting their clock cleaned by the PD and its readers.  I bet none of the step up to the podium and show any type of backbone either.  Buck-passing, do-nothing cowards. 

 

 

Besides the councilman, Craig Hebebrand (ODOT Dist. 12/Innerbelt construction manager), and my director were both forced to retire

 

What do you mean "forced to retire"?  Who forced them?  Rather, the time was right because the deal wasn't getting any better.

 

I don't specifically object to the double dipping because it's not really that big of a deal to me.  A bigger concern is that my dog probably has more education, training & ethics than some of these council people...

You either continue to work and lose a significant portion of the 20+ years of the money you put away, or retire now and maintain what you have. No, it is not literally a "forced" retirement... it is a choice. So if you would like to be literal about it, I stand corrected.

In 2008 the plain dealer posted this PDF showing the percentage of missed meetings by council members.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/pdgraphics/2008/06/11CGATTENDB.pdf

Given the political complexion of the statehouse and, rightly or wrongly, the outrage the issue seems to whip up, I'm surprised we haven't heard more about possible legislative changes to double dipping rights.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a major municipality...... maybe even a small village or township...... that doesn't have someone on the books who is technically "double-dipping".  This is an issue to raise down in Columbus as it is allowed under the law.  And it's not like the City of Cleveland is losing any money over this.  Someone would be filling that seat and receiving that salary and Johnson would still be receiving his pension.  I get that it doesn't pass the smell test, but let's not pretend that the City and its constituents are paying twice here.

 

I'm amazed how little there is on the web about the "costs" of double dipping and who bears them.  Most of the reporting by the press is incredibly lazy and just presents it as self-evidently scummy, but with very little analysis.  I'd love to see something that clearly lays out, with actuarial analysis, all of the issues.

^Maybe I'm missing something but perhaps the lack of information on costs is because there technically is no added cost.  Let's just suppose Johnson retired and stayed retired.  He'd be earning his pension at let's just give it a round figure of $1,000/mo.  A new councilperson is appointed/elected to replace him and recieved the councilperson's salary of, again just a round figure, $2,000/mo.  The total cost is $3,000 for both.  Now..... let's not appoint/elect a new council person and put Johnson back in, both recieving his pension and his regular salary.  The total cost would remain $3,000/mo and the services recieved would be the same as well.

 

If all of that is correct, then what we are dealing with is more people getting mad about what Johnson is receiving, not what it costs.

 

Well, deservedly, they are getting their clock cleaned by the PD and its readers.  I bet none of the step up to the podium and show any type of backbone either.  Buck-passing, do-nothing cowards. 

 

Yes..... because of the target.  But what about the double dippers in Moreland Hills, Bentleyville, Oakwood, Macedonia, Chester Twp., Ravenna, etc.?  Why the outrage over this guy?

^In fairness, I think the commentariat gets outraged after every article about double dipping. But the press certainly picks and chooses which to bait them with.

 

And in your example, I think you also need to compare the costs against the possibility that Jackson (or at least some percentage of similarly situated public officials) would delay retirement if double dipping weren't an option.  Presumably this would save the pension system money, but I don't know enough about the funding system to know how this would translate into savings for the state or city.  I generally agree that the issue is over-hyped, though, and I would love more of the press coverage to make the cost implications more clear.  By ignoring it completely, I'm sure they imply to some readers that the out of pocket costs for "the taxpayer" are huge.

^^of course, if he isn't really ready to retire, than we save $1,000. 

 

The thing that upsets me about this is that double dippers are sitting on jobs that someone else could be moving up into, squelching opportunities for younger generations to move up into senior and leadership roles, on down the line to mid and entry level jobs.  Maybe we're better off paying the $2,000 for some new blood, plus the $1,000 to maintain someone out to pasture than $3,000 to maintain the status quo.

I think some of the outrage stems from the fact he was re-appointed and not re-elected. I agree with Hts121 that the media and everyone else should make sure they hold all of our politicians to the same standard and not just the ones in Cleveland. I admit I am a conservative, but I live in the city of Cleveland and I truly care about making this a better place to live. That's the reason I tend to be critical of city of Cleveland politics because it directly affects me. I am very happy with several of our democratic politicians and I hope we can continue to get good leaders in elected offices.

 

Also, I just got off the phone with Cimperman and I have to give him credit for giving me a call and explaining to me what happened. He definitely cares about his constituents and Ward 3 is better for having him.

^^of course, if he isn't really ready to retire, than we save $1,000. 

 

The thing that upsets me about this is that double dippers are sitting on jobs that someone else could be moving up into, squelching opportunities for younger generations to move up into senior and leadership roles, on down the line to mid and entry level jobs.  Maybe we're better off paying the $2,000 for some new blood, plus the $1,000 to maintain someone out to pasture than $3,000 to maintain the status quo.

 

That's a general statement worth debating, but in this instance, I think it's up to the voters of his district.  Considering they've elected him since 1980, they seem pretty happy with the status quo.

And in other instances, the employer (e.g. school boards) is perfectly free to hire someone younger when the incumbent retires.  I don't think double dippers have any legal entitlement to their same job, do they?  I actually agree that in many or most of these cases, it probably does make sense to hire back the incumbent from their (the employer's) point of view. And if not, that's a much broader issue about public sector hiring.

As long as House Speaker Batchelder double-dips, I wouldn't hold out any hope for any local limitations.  Why hasn't the PD taken him to task for doing it?  What about all of the school superintendents who do it?  What about the law directors, human resource directors, and other well paid public officials? 

^ I don't know if you're addressing me, but my point holds even moreso for public employees than for elected officials.

I would wager that we are going to hear a lot about that leadership campaign fund over the next year.

 

Cleveland City Council president Martin J. Sweeney comes up in FBI’s Forlani wiretap

James F. McCarty, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

on January 08, 2013 at 9:21 PM

 

 

AKRON, Ohio -- An FBI wiretap captured crooked contractor Michael Forlani talking in 2008 about arranging for donations to Cleveland City Council President Martin J. Sweeney's leadership campaign fund before a council vote on unspecified business.

 

Forlani mentions the $20,000 in donations after the man on the other end of the line, identified by federal prosecutors as developer John Ferchill, tallies the votes needed for the then 21-member council to approve legislation.

 

"We need 11 votes to win," Ferchill said. "We got 14."

 

Forlani replied: "Money cures a lot of evils."

 

...

 

Sweeney was one of three people included in the pyramid-shaped prop who had not been charged with corruption-related crimes. And prosecutors did not include his photo in a similar pyramid used to open Dimora's trial seven weeks earlier.

 

Mike Tobin, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, declined at the time to comment on why prosecutors added the council president for their closing arguments.

 

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_city_council_preside_1.html#incart_river_default

it's really interesting to me how these City Council positions somehow evolve into career positions.  Does anyone even recall the last close council race in Cleveland?  It seems the only way there is turnover is if someone moves up to State legislature like Nina Turner or dies like Fannie Lewis.  Even then, their successor seems predetermined, to avoid any dust-ups.  Zone took over the position after his father & mother held it for decades.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dona Brady take over the ward previously held by her husband, and current county council member, Dan Brady?

 

A quick scan of the bios, 8 of the 19 have been council members for 15 years or more.  Another 4 of them have been there 10+ years.  Jeff Johnson has more than 10 years I think, but not consecutively, so I didn't count him.

 

Is this the same situation in other large cities?

Contractor testifies Forlani acted on his behalf in seeking aid of Council President Martin Sweeney

By James F. McCarty, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

on January 09, 2013 at 1:06 PM, updated January 09, 2013 at 4:57 PM

 

During the second day of Forlani's sentencing hearing this morning, Pumper said the phone conversation dealt with his request that Forlani assist him in dealing with Sweeney.

 

Pumper recalled that he had asked Forlani to use his influence with Sweeney to help resolve a lawsuit involving unpaid bills for work performed at Cleveland Browns Stadium.

 

"Michael's very close to Marty," Pumper testified. "With that relationship, it really gave us the opportunity to move the settlement of this case forward faster."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/countyincrisis/index.ssf/2013/01/convicted_contractor_testifies.html

Cleveland City Council never ceases to disappoint.  What even qualifies Ken Johnson to be a council member in the first place?  Cimperman is probably the best of them, but as a group, they enact legislation on dogs being chained up and banning text messaging while the city declines around them.

 

NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  HE'S THE WORST COUNCIL MEMBER, AND IGNORES SHAKER SQUARE!  PUT HIS ASS OUT TO PASTURE.  My blood pressure went through he roof!

Jay Westbrook plans to retire from Cleveland City Council

By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

on February 07, 2013 at 8:03 AM, updated February 07, 2013 at 8:18 AM

 

CLEVELAND Each time Jay Westbrook was asked by fellow councilman Marty Sweeney how he would overcome a difficult challenge or adversary, the 33-year council veteran winked and gave his colleague the same answer.

 

“Marty, I’m going to give them the Westbrook razzle dazzle,” Sweeney recalled.

 

If he shares that charm after Jan. 6, 2014, it won’t be as Ward 16’s representative to Cleveland City Council. Instead, Westbrook is hanging it up after nine consecutive terms representing the city’s West Side, including the Denison, West Boulevard, Cudell and Edgewater neighborhoods.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2013/02/jay_westbrook_plans_to_retire.html

I didn't see it in the article but I understand this ward will be divided between Matt Zone & Dona Brady's districts

Zach Reed found guilty of drunk driving.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/08/jury_in_councilman_zack_reeds.html#incart_m-rpt-2

 

Looking forward to see how this affects his political career.  What tools does Sweeney have at his disposal to show his disapproval of Reed's behavior?  Will a real alternative run against him in the future?  Will voters even care?

Who's running against him? I live in Cimperman's ward, but I'll promote (almost) anyone against a three-time drunk driver.

Someone please chime in if they know for sure, but I think salary for Cleveland Council is around $75-$80k a year and might even include a car, plus OPERS pension & benefits.  Hard to believe folks like Zach Reed are the only option to represent

I'm pretty are it's 67,000 a year.

Who's running against him? I live in Cimperman's ward, but I'll promote (almost) anyone against a three-time drunk driver.

 

I'm guessing since the voters in his ward did nothing after Reed's second offense, that they'll continue to look the other way (except while crossing the street near his house of course).

Hahaha!!! Now, that was funny Surf.

Hahaha!!! Now, that was funny Surf.

 

Thanks, I'm here all the week!