I posted this a year or more ago elsewhere, but thought it would go along with some of the “sprawl” discussion and Kunstleresque fantasies of peak oil killing suburbia, what a future suburban dystopia might look like.

 

The theme came from this essay The New Suburban Gothic

 

 

 

 

Miracle Lane was Dayton’s first true shopping center.  It has miraculously disappeared, leaving a parking lot and a grassy knoll

 

 

 

Ovals of Death

 

 

 

 

 

The Future Once Happened Here

 

 

 

 

 

curb service drive in to cell phone tower base.

 

 

 

 

Yellow safety tape around a dirt mound. Hmmm…

 

 

former site of the deliciously retro Kon-Tiki theatre

 

 

 

Dead strip centers

 

 

 

Dead suburban department store

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dayton’s first indoor shopping mall….

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is like some gigantic modern sculpture/land art thing gone wrong…

 

 

 

Dead big box colonized by a dollar store

 

 

Cheaper to sew it than it is to buy it? (minimal occupany for nearly dead strip centers)

 

 

Nothing is sadder than dead themed food chains

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  I don't know where to start.

 

  Supposedly, our economy is growing slightly. Whenever I go to West Chester, I see a new building. However, buildings are being abandoned in other places, and there are numerous buildings that are vacant but not abandoned.

 

  If we are growing, the number of occupied buildings should be rising. But, after seeing pictures like this, I have to wonder if we have peaked, or are about to peak.

Damn!! When I read the opening salvo, I figured you'd have a few pictures of some closed suburban stores. But WOW! This would make an amazing setting for a post-peak oil movie.

 

Someday, we may be venturing out to exurbia to photograph lots more settings like these. Just don't forget your gun....

Yup.

Depressingly wonderful thread. Makes me want to get a can of spray paint and a bucket of rocks and go out and start vandalizing vacant malls and fast-food chains.

 

It's begun. Home Depot has announced plans to start closing "underperforming" stores.

 

Starbucks same.

 

Those are two of the previously most aggressively growth-oriented chains.

Kunstler would enjoy this

Depressingly wonderful thread. Makes me want to get a can of spray paint and a bucket of rocks and go out and start vandalizing vacant malls and fast-food chains.

Places like that make me want to just drive around, listen to some good music and pretend I am in some movie. Then, I'll want to get out the spray cans.

Bill Knapps... :cry:

 

Really, though, interesting set. And yet, Kunstler still has to tell us that no one will care about these landscapes.

What a shame.  Maybe artists could carve those up into studios.

It's Great 'n Dayton!  Uhhhh... wait.  :cry:

 

"The future once happened here." Very, very sad.

Kunstler would enjoy this

 

Lol, maybe someone should email him...?

 

$$$$$$$

 

Seriously, this collection of snaps could be spun a few different ways.  Though I pitched it as a look at the future, these were shot last year, so it's the conseqeunce of things happening in the present time.

 

Speaking of time, there's some theoretical writing that came out of the New Left, specficially "One Dimensional Man" by Herbert Marcuse and "Society of the Spectacle", by Guy Debord, that talks of how things become representations of themselves, how society becomes "one diminesional, or "the spectacle", sort of riff on the Marxist concept of "alientation". 

 

In pop culture the concept is in operation in some political punk lyrics, like when the Gang of Four sang "No one lives in the future/no one lives in the past", or even a bit in movies like the first "Matrix" flick or "The Truman Show".

 

In a way, one can see this in suburbia, where one lives in an eternal present, out of time and history, in a  perceptual "space" made up of brands and marketing as much as of physical buildings. Suburban space is constantly recycled but one doesn't really "remember" what was there, as the physical shell isn't important (in fact it's minimalized), just the brand and marketing concept.  From landscape to brandscape.

 

However when capitalism fails and things go economically awry, the eternal present of the brandscape melts away and one is left with just the shells, or shells colonized by lower levels of marketing, as we see here.

 

brandscape... I like that term

In a way, one can see this in suburbia, where one lives in an eternal present, out of time and history, in a  perceptual "space" made up of brands and marketing as much as of physical buildings. Suburban space is constantly recycled but one doesn't really "remember" what was there, as the physical shell isn't important (in fact it's minimalized), just the brand and marketing concept.  From landscape to brandscape.

 

However when capitalism fails and things go economically awry, the eternal present of the brandscape melts away and one is left with just the shells, or shells colonized by lower levels of marketing, as we see here.

 

That's what is so hard to take about this. The photo essays here of proud old Southeastern Ohio iron and manufacturing towns show weathered dignity and let one imagine industrial titans and great men with dignity and "mojo" filling the valleys with factories and mills. Even in decline, a lot of that stuff is still beautiful, 100+ years after it was built and decades after it was abandoned.

 

With THIS stuff, the shells of big boxes and shopping centers, it's basically just unsightly crap. The exposed skeletons of marketing facades.

 

Post-apocalyptic is the phrase I'm looking for. Lots of these scenes look familiar, just the brands and signs stripped off, and they spoke of the future when they were built. In reality they were architectural Kleenex.

 

I've always thought that commercial developers should always be required to build stuff that would be acceptable in appearance even if the commercial branding was stripped away. An abandoned Taco Bell or Rally's just looks so crappy.

Post-apocalyptic is the phrase I'm looking for. Lots of these scenes look familiar, just the brands and signs stripped off, and they spoke of the future when they were built. In reality they were architectural Kleenex.

 

Mad Max or Omega Man?

 

Seriously, buildings as kleenex is really good..and that is whats happening here.

 

Another take on this is to look at the new stuff just up the road from the last few images, where you see big box & strip center stuff, but "alive" rather than dead.  One can trace how retail creats, and then abandons stuff as it moves further out.

 

A real good example of this is not in Dayton at all, but Elizabethtown, KY (E-town for short). There one can follow Dixie Highway (US 31W) out of town to the north, from the courthouse square out, and watch how retail use created then disposed on buildings as it expanded north to Fort Knox and Radcliff. 

 

Stuff that was new and occupied and busy in the 1970s (Wal-Mart, strip centers, etc) is now semi-abandoned and home to check cashing places and flea markets and such.

 

E-Town would be a great lesson in architectural kleenex.

 

 

 

 

 

the difference is that the old buildings might not be saved but they will be lamented. 

Seriously, buildings as kleenex is really good..and that is whats happening here.

 

Another take on this is to look at the new stuff just up the road from the last few images, where you see big box & strip center stuff, but "alive" rather than dead.  One can trace how retail creats, and then abandons stuff as it moves further out.

 

A real good example of this is not in Dayton at all, but Elizabethtown, KY (E-town for short). There one can follow Dixie Highway (US 31W) out of town to the north, from the courthouse square out, and watch how retail use created then disposed on buildings as it expanded north to Fort Knox and Radcliff. 

 

Stuff that was new and occupied and busy in the 1970s (Wal-Mart, strip centers, etc) is now semi-abandoned and home to check cashing places and flea markets and such.

 

E-Town would be a great lesson in architectural kleenex.

 

Jeffrey, you seem to be saying that commercial/architectural Kleenex is a good thing because it creates a steady supply of low cost business space for the future.

 

Is that *really* a good thing? That stuff around Dayton that you photographed doesn't look like it will ever be filled up with activity. The businesses just shift their center of gravity over time and chew up and uglify the land.

 

PS: is that an "old" Applebee's in the third and fourth from last pictures above?

Jeffrey, you seem to be saying that commercial/architectural Kleenex is a good thing because it creates a steady supply of low cost business space for the future.

 

Oh..when I said "buildings as kleenex is really good.." I meant it was a good pithy way to describe whats going on.  And the issue here isn't low cost business space as the lack of business to fill the space.

 

Thinking about this a bit, in Dayton, the old city, one could see a lot of 'recylcing' going on.  Its possible to have three or more episodes of building subsititution going on downtown and older neighborhoods. So a strip recycling itself might be the usual way things happen...though in modern times there is less "archiceture" and more "shell", or "kleenex", as has been noted upthread.

 

Also, in suburbia there are two things:

 

1.  Recycling of commercial areas with either new buildings or modifications of existing buildings, or new uses

 

2.  Quasi-abandonment of commercial areas, which is what we are seeing here, either flat out emptying, or commercial activity moves further "out" (as my E-Town example).

 

There are examples of #1 in Dayton, too.  OH 725 is one, another would be US 48 south of town.

 

I am going to be taking a more comprehensive look at this part of town, but it will be awhile before I post on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the issue here isn't low cost business space as the lack of business to fill the space.

 

Personally, I think that the actual issue is that 'truly' new business formation (indicating net area population growth) falls far below the pace of commercial abandonment. You're saying that the issue is lack of business. Well, that implies that the old space should not have been abandoned in the first place.

 

However, of course, that flies in the face of capitalism, which comes down to - you stop expanding and you essentially die. Abandoned commercial real estate is one aspect of waste, and another is landfills filled with plastic crap.

 

The only way to discourage such waste would be centralized Soviet style planning. It's in the genome of capitalism to chew everything in its path.

No, there is no rule of capitalism that says growth must be directional in space. Just as often landscapes like these reveal the force of gov't power as it does the activity of the market.

 

The challenge of dealing with these landscapes is that they aren't simply depressing on their own, but they dramatically alter the value of other spaces around them. Unfortunately, it is also quickly like that the landowners are still getting paid for their leases on some of the spaces. The cost of land in many failed retail corridors is low enough that retailers will close but continue to pay rent rather than operate the business at a loss. There are some ideas out there about making the owners of these places return the space to greenfield once it stops being a viable retail space.

However, of course, that flies in the face of capitalism, which comes down to - you stop expanding and you essentially die. Abandoned commercial real estate is one aspect of waste, and another is landfills filled with plastic crap.

 

Not necessarily. Businesses can expand to the point where they become inefficient and die -- you may recall the term "diseconomies of scale" in your economics classes? The same has applied to empires (Roman, Persian, Third Reich, etc) and to metropolitan areas as well (hence the term urban sprawl). Since nations and cities are invariably run by governments, then it is up to government to determine the physical form of the human-built environments with its jurisdiction.

 

The only way to discourage such waste would be centralized Soviet style planning. It's in the genome of capitalism to chew everything in its path.

 

You can do better than that. All you did is cite two easily identifiable yet opposing extremes. There are a myriad of options between those opposites for managing a city and its built environment. Learn what those options may be, or even create some new ideas.

I grew up in Trotwood and remember all of those places fondly. Tasty Bird had great chicken. Miracle Lane had a Woolworth's and Bettman's Pharmacy. The Shopkeepers Village was originally a Shopper's Fair discount store. The Shopkeepers Village theme was adopted to take advantage of the Bicentennial craze in 1976. The building next to it with the cupola was an A&P, then Freedom Foods. The abandoned Noble Communications building was originally a Frisch's (that's why there is the drive in out back). The Mamma's Country Kitchen was a Red Barn fast food restaurant. The "dead suburban department store" was a BEST Products. The Spirit of Life Christian Center was a Woolahan Lumber. The next abandoned buildings were a Builder's Square and a Frank's Nursery. The center where the JoAnn Fabrics is was originally home to a Kroger, Rite Aid, Dayton Home Furnishings and (where Best Buy is now) a Miller's Discount Store which became Rink's which became Hills which became Burlington Coat Factory. The site with the "modern sculpture" was Tom Harrigon's car dealership. The abandoned store next to the dollar store was a Fazio's supermarket before eventually becoming Circuit City. Where the Value City was (soon to be a Burlington Coat Factory) was originally a Gold Circle, Federated's version of K Mart. The final picture is of an abandoned Bill Knapp's, which had the best chocolate cake in the world.

 

It deeply sadens me to my old familiar places reduce to ruin.

Damn!! When I read the opening salvo, I figured you'd have a few pictures of some closed suburban stores. But WOW! This would make an amazing setting for a post-peak oil movie.

 

Someday, we may be venturing out to exurbia to photograph lots more settings like these. Just don't forget your gun....

 

Right now, I explore industrial abandonments. 20 years from now, I'll be looking forward to strip malls and big-box stores? Gah!

Bump, for reasons of pure awesomeness of this thread.

Wow, yes...actually the really awseome part is the poster who lived in this area and remembers what was in these stores.

 

Hopefully he'll tune in this weekend when I post more on this area. 

 

But, yeah, some good discussion here.

 

 

 

 

Im suprised no one picked up on this attemtp to inject a bit of visual humor/irony:

 

 

 

 

^ ha, you sneeked that in!  :laugh:

 

i was thinking of this old talking heads song while looking over the thread:

 

 

----------------------------

(Nothing But) Flowers

----------------------------

 

Here we stand

Like an Adam and an Eve

Waterfalls

The Garden of Eden

Two fools in love

So beautiful and strong

The birds in the trees

Are smiling upon them

From the age of the dinosaurs

Cars have run on gasoline

Where, where have they gone?

Now, it's nothing but flowers

 

There was a factory

Now there are mountains and rivers

you got it, you got it

 

We caught a rattlesnake

Now we got something for dinner

we got it, we got it

 

There was a shopping mall

Now it's all covered with flowers

you've got it, you've got it

 

If this is paradise

I wish I had a lawnmower

you've got it, you've got it

 

Years ago

I was an angry young man

I'd pretend

That I was a billboard

Standing tall

By the side of the road

I fell in love

With a beautiful highway

This used to be real estate

Now it's only fields and trees

Where, where is the town

Now, it's nothing but flowers

The highways and cars

Were sacrificed for agriculture

I thought that we'd start over

 

But I guess I was wrong

 

Once there were parking lots

Now it's a peaceful oasis

you got it, you got it

 

This was a Pizza Hut

Now it's all covered with daisies

you got it, you got it

 

I miss the honky tonks,

Dairy Queens, and 7-Elevens

you got it, you got it

 

And as things fell apart

Nobody paid much attention

you got it, you got it

 

I dream of cherry pies,

Candy bars, and chocolate chip cookies

you got it, you got it

 

We used to microwave

Now we just eat nuts and berries

you got it, you got it

 

This was a discount store,

Now it's turned into a cornfield

you got it, you got it

 

Don't leave me stranded here

I can't get used to this lifestyle

 

I've never heard that Talking Heads song. I'm going to have to check it out and put in my music section along with the Pretenders' "My City Was Gone" and Springsteen's "Youngstown."

Okay, so Jim Kunstler came on this tread last night and he wrote back to me asking if "Dayton's economy is totally tanked???"  As I am not a local, I can't even begin to answer this question logically and honestly.  So I'm hoping one of you can write him back.

Also, Jeffrey, Kunstler mentioned that he might use these pics on his June blog for his "eyesore of the month."  I don't know how you feel about copywrite laws, but you might just want to e-mail him to makes sure none are broken. 

 

The e-mail address is [email protected]

 

Thanks again for the great thread.

Wow, yes...actually the really awseome part is the poster who lived in this area and remembers what was in these stores.

 

Hopefully he'll tune in this weekend when I post more on this area. 

 

But, yeah, some good discussion here.

 

 

 

 

I'm going on vacation tomorrow and won't be looking at the board for the next week. I look forward to seeing Jeffrey's latest pics when I get back!

^

I'll remember to bump the new thread!

 

@@@

 

Yeah, I remember that Talking Heads song too, and I think it got some airplay, but I dont recall where I heard it or what station played it...probably WOXY.  The song is pretty old, yet pretty topical nowadays.  Sort of suprising.  Actually David Bryne, in that TH movie set in Texas, was pretty aware of urban/suburban development things from what I recall.

 

I recall him touring around a big industrial park made up of Butler buildings saying "This is what the modernisits predicted!" (or where their theorys led?)....Architecturaly Kleenex.  But yeah, great soundtrack for driving around there.

 

...and wow, Kunstler actually surferd in here?!?? Geez.....

 

^ I've found that music from the late '70s to the early '90s did a very good job of predicting what today is like (unlike '50s-'60s TV, which completely missed it).

 

Here are some other examples:

 

Judas Priest - "Electric Eye" (security cameras)

 

Black Sabbath - "Computer God" (how the computer, and the government/corporations' knowledge of how you use it, will take the soul out of life)

 

Helloween - "Guardians" (mind control through technology)

Kunstler has actually responded to every email I have ever sent him.  He is really good about contacting his readers

Bumped again...I love this thread.

I did a big backstory set on this area..it's somewhere in the photos section, though it had a lot of graphs and maps, too.

 

 

Anyone know how the Salem Mall redevelopment/Landmark thing is going?

 

I'm guessing not good at the moment, but I also hope that I am wrong.