June 25, 20222 yr On 6/23/2022 at 4:19 PM, KJP said: Saw this one recently too Can anyone cite some examples of third-world countries that are paying attention to the problems that cars present and intentionally directing development to minimize their use?
June 25, 20222 yr On 6/23/2022 at 10:38 AM, VintageLife said: Saw this post, and thought it was fitting for here.
June 25, 20222 yr 3 hours ago, Foraker said: Can anyone cite some examples of third-world countries that are paying attention to the problems that cars present and intentionally directing development to minimize their use? Check out what Columbia's major cities are doing, especially Bogota and Medellin https://voxdev.org/topic/infrastructure-urbanisation/equitable-benefits-colombia-s-bus-rapid-transit-system https://www.kiva.org/blog/metro-de-medellin-how-colombia-built-a-culture-of-care-around-a-transportation-system "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 26, 20222 yr On 6/25/2022 at 3:38 PM, KJP said: Check out what Columbia's major cities are doing, especially Bogota and Medellin Excellent! And there are lessons from Colombia that could improve transit in the US: Quote Allowing for increased building densities in treated locations would have led to higher welfare gains, underscoring the benefits to cities pursuing a unified transit and land use policy. https://voxdev.org/topic/infrastructure-urbanisation/equitable-benefits-colombia-s-bus-rapid-transit-system Quote The efforts of the metro authority are intended to foster a city-wide “Cultura Metro” and include educational programs, art projects, community engagements and sustainability initiatives. For example, organization staff train youth leaders in the communities near the metro lines, helping them acquire skills to aid their personal and professional growth. There’s a leadership development program which has educated more than 2,000 individuals, many of whom subsequently coordinated community engagement days featuring art, music and more. Art projects include galleries directly within the stations featuring the works of local artists, and periodic afternoon concerts held outside the metro stops. Finally, residents are given the opportunity to express concerns and provide feedback through community meetings and partnerships with key public and private organizations. https://www.kiva.org/blog/metro-de-medellin-how-colombia-built-a-culture-of-care-around-a-transportation-system Edited June 27, 20222 yr by Foraker Fixed typo
July 12, 20222 yr How does this affect America and its cities in the future? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20222 yr 3 hours ago, KJP said: How does this affect America and its cities in the future? That map would have had more explanatory power if it had included rivers, because what that population concentration really reflects is the vast, sprawling tributary system of the Ganges (and, in the Pakistani side of the first map, the Indus). Some things about urban development have changed greatly since Varanasi (then Kathi) was settled along the Ganges in the Bronze Age; some things have not. Access to plentiful fresh water is still a primary determinant of the human carrying capacity of any area. What does that say about America and its cities in the future? It says protect the Great Lakes. And the Mississippi River system (including the Ohio and many other major tributaries). And hopefully engineer a process that allows economical desalination at scale for our cities that don't have the blessings of the Midwest's water resources. It says that regardless of how large or economically or geopolitically important these cities may appear today, the upper growth limits of Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit are actually higher than those of Houston, Miami, and Phoenix.
July 14, 20222 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 23, 20222 yr Coastal and desert cities? 👎 Great Lakes cities? 👍 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 24, 20222 yr It's almost like these western states tripling in population over the last half century hasn't helped anything either.
July 25, 20222 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 26, 20222 yr If it's true that people are leaving Detroit to go to Miami, it's NOT to avoid high costs.... Affordability spurs big city exodus By Harriet Sinclair, Editor at LinkedIn News Updated 8 hours ago People across the country are struggling to afford fast-rising rent and mortgage payments, but some U.S. cities have become so expensive that they're fueling a "record share" of homeowner relocations. Real estate brokerage Redfin notes that 32.6% of its site's users were looking to move cities during the second quarter — an all-time high. San Francisco, where the price of a typical home is now $1.5 million, heads Redfin's Top 10 list of cities that residents want to leave. Miami, meanwhile, leads the cities where people are seeking to buy homes, followed by Tampa, Fla., Phoenix and Sacramento, Calif. The top cities people were looking to leave, according to Redfin, are: San Francisco Los Angeles New York Washington D.C. Seattle Boston Detroit Denver Chicago Minneapolis MORE https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/affordability-spurs-big-city-exodus-4868809/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 26, 20222 yr So Denver is on this list. Just four years ago people (especially 20 somethings) were pouring into Denver. Now there is an exodus in such a short period of time. While I know for a fact prices in Denver sky rocketed starting right after the end of the recession till now, this does seem crazy that there would be such a quick turn around. Edited July 26, 20222 yr by Htsguy
July 26, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, Htsguy said: So Denver is on this list. Just four years ago people (especially 20 somethings) were pouring into Denver. Now there is an exodus in such a short period of time. While I know for a fact prices in Denver sky rocketed from just after the starting right after the end of the recession till now, this does seem crazy that there would be such a quick turn around. I would bet the lack of fresh water is driving some of it, too.
July 26, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, GCrites80s said: Did the Denver market respond with more units or just higher and higher prices? I don't know about single family homes but when I was in town for a week about 4 years ago it seemed like you could not walk 10 feet without running into another huge apartment development, both in the city and in the burbs. However nothing remarkable architecturally . Lots of those 4-5 story rectangles you see all over the place.
July 27, 20222 yr 6 hours ago, Htsguy said: So Denver is on this list. Just four years ago people (especially 20 somethings) were pouring into Denver. Now there is an exodus in such a short period of time. While I know for a fact prices in Denver sky rocketed starting right after the end of the recession till now, this does seem crazy that there would be such a quick turn around. Yeah, people are still moving to Denver. Some people wanting to leave doesn’t negate that even more people want to move there. If those places would actually build enough housing, bringing prices down, the “want to leave” crowd would be reduced considerably. https://beautifydata.com/united-states-population/migration/net-migration-rate-per-county/colorado/denver Net migration isn’t quite as breathtaking as ten years ago, but it’s still quite high. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
July 27, 20222 yr Of all the arbitrary lists, this one seems a bit out there. How redfin is qualifying "thinking of leaving" does not seem particularly scientific or convincing. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/24/redfin-homebuyers-want-to-leave-san-francisco-los-angeles-new-york.html "Marr noted that a lack of affordability is a tougher sell for cities than ever before, with the rise of remote work across large swaths of the country." First things first - full remote is not common, even among big tech or finance. I wish it were, but that isn't the case. Second, Sacramento, Tampa, Miami and of all places SAN DIEGO are among the inflow. Since when did they get affordable? The fact is housing is brutal in all cities ranging from the New Yorks and LAs to the St. Louises and Baltimores. Save for Detroit, those top ten cities where people are allegedly looking to leave will be fine, as they have diverse economies, well-regarded global reputations, strong universities, massive tourism levels, middle and higher end income residents, etc. There are large challenges, in particular with crime for some and cost of living for all, no doubt. But you could make the same argument for the Miamis and Dallases of the country too.
August 8, 20222 yr This ought to get some discussion going. Hopefully it won't veer into partisan blaming and can instead focus on solutions... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 9, 20222 yr On 7/26/2022 at 8:04 PM, Boomerang_Brian said: Yeah, people are still moving to Denver. Some people wanting to leave doesn’t negate that even more people want to move there. If those places would actually build enough housing, bringing prices down, the “want to leave” crowd would be reduced considerably. https://beautifydata.com/united-states-population/migration/net-migration-rate-per-county/colorado/denver Net migration isn’t quite as breathtaking as ten years ago, but it’s still quite high. With climate change accelerating, chances are that Denver's water supply will be adversely affected because of hotter summer temperatures/less precipitation in the foothills & plains (Source One, the South Platte River Basin) & less winter snowpack in the mountains (Source Two, the Colorado River Basin). Source of the image below at denverwater.org For more information: https://www.denverwater.org/tap/where-does-your-water-come Edited August 9, 20222 yr by DHubb Organization of this post.
August 9, 20222 yr 19 hours ago, KJP said: This ought to get some discussion going. Hopefully it won't veer into partisan blaming and can instead focus on solutions... oh geez, what is more annoying than someone visiting downtown los angeles and then saying well look at how it is in all of america? of course he did not say anything about downtown los angeles that isnt true, but its nothing new and he might keep it to that city.
August 9, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, mrnyc said: oh geez, what is more annoying than someone visiting downtown los angeles and then saying well look at how it is in all of america? I'm with you on your point. On the flip. I could be wrong, but he literally did the opposite. He asked in the final paragraph if that is what it is like in other American cities.
August 9, 20222 yr 21 hours ago, KJP said: This ought to get some discussion going. Hopefully it won't veer into partisan blaming and can instead focus on solutions... Hmmmm trying to think if there are any racist tent cities in Europe for any reason…🤔 /s It’s certainly easier to avoid seeing class and racial disparity in Europe. The main difference would be that the poor are pushed into the outskirts
August 9, 20222 yr Indeed, in Europe poverty's not in your face since you don't really need to go to the parts of town with it.
August 10, 20222 yr 18 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said: I'm with you on your point. On the flip. I could be wrong, but he literally did the opposite. He asked in the final paragraph if that is what it is like in other American cities. true he did -- and he was trying to be fair, he just didnt do a good enough job for me to take anything away from that. we have all known how intractable it is in downtown los angeles with the homeless for quite some time, that its news to him isnt saying much. if anything it just goes to show you, do your homework before you travel instead of being blithe about it.
August 10, 20222 yr It's a reddit post, not a nuanced journalist article, so I don't understand why so many objections. And it seems like the poster was aware of the homeless problems prior, though reading about it abstractly is certainly different than encountering encampments and visible homeless in Venice, Delray, or wherever he went. For instance I knew Tenderloin was rough when visiting San Francisco, but my god is it an absolute madhouse in real life, especially when the sun goes down. Youtube videos and countless articles don't do it justice. American are somewhat numb/accepting to these environments, so it's good to have different perspectives. This sh*t just doesn't exist in western countries as they do here, so of course, and fairly, there will be negative reactions. But again, just a reddit post. Edited August 10, 20222 yr by TBideon
September 2, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Interesting -- any link to floorplans or other design details?
September 14, 20222 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 15, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, KJP said: I mention this all the time over on the Columbus pages. I would rather have a bunch of 10-20 stories with some 5+ thrown in. Skyscrapers look cool, but often don’t add a lot to the street level.
September 21, 20222 yr That's why when people from the other two Cs come here they are shocked by the lack of that middle layer they both have. Since so much of Columbus was built under modern zoning our middle midrise layer is just the SN and what's left of the eastern part of Downtown.
October 21, 20222 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 20222 yr On 8/10/2022 at 10:42 AM, TBideon said: It's a reddit post, not a nuanced journalist article, so I don't understand why so many objections. And it seems like the poster was aware of the homeless problems prior, though reading about it abstractly is certainly different than encountering encampments and visible homeless in Venice, Delray, or wherever he went. For instance I knew Tenderloin was rough when visiting San Francisco, but my god is it an absolute madhouse in real life, especially when the sun goes down. Youtube videos and countless articles don't do it justice. American are somewhat numb/accepting to these environments, so it's good to have different perspectives. This sh*t just doesn't exist in western countries as they do here, so of course, and fairly, there will be negative reactions. But again, just a reddit post. America is more of a confederation of individuals and tribes than a cohesive society, and it always has been. Modern communications has made us more aware of it. Heinlein once observed that women and cats will do what they will do, and men and dogs should get used to that. The same could be said about Americans and government. It can mean the tenderloin, it can mean sprawl, it can mean the Amish: other examples will abound. Different places, including cities, will have different character. As long as we maintain the means to communicate, we should be okay. That numbness represents a sort of tolerance that doesn't always imply acceptance. IMO, that's healthy.
October 21, 20222 yr 3 hours ago, E Rocc said: America is more of a confederation of individuals and tribes than a cohesive society, and it always has been. Modern communications has made us more aware of it. Heinlein once observed that women and cats will do what they will do, and men and dogs should get used to that. The same could be said about Americans and government. It can mean the tenderloin, it can mean sprawl, it can mean the Amish: other examples will abound. Different places, including cities, will have different character. As long as we maintain the means to communicate, we should be okay. That numbness represents a sort of tolerance that doesn't always imply acceptance. IMO, that's healthy. American "tolerance that doesn't always imply acceptance" -- I like that. The Republican Party, however, vehemently disagrees with tolerance of views that they don't accept. Consolidation in the media and unregulated social media isn't improving our ability to communicate. (That does not mean that social media needs to be regulated by the government.)
October 21, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, Foraker said: American "tolerance that doesn't always imply acceptance" -- I like that. The Republican Party, however, vehemently disagrees with tolerance of views that they don't accept. Consolidation in the media and unregulated social media isn't improving our ability to communicate. (That does not mean that social media needs to be regulated by the government.) To a point I agree, but I would maintain that started on the left and spread, Cult45 being a rather virulent example. But if you want to see vehement disagreement of views not shared, try being a conservative activist or speaker on most college campi during the last 20 years or so. The reaction is not laudable, and blaming only one side will not solve the problem, but it is indeed a reaction. Maybe that's why they call us "reactionaries". :) Social media does much more good than harm, but there needs to be a balance and in order to prevent further concentration of power, it likely has to come from the consumer. As far as cities go, I would say that this is one of the reasons lower density can be a good thing. There's less motivation to care about the opinions or actions of people at a distance. Edited October 21, 20222 yr by E Rocc
October 21, 20222 yr ^When I was in college there were way more people trying to give me the "Good News" than trying to pull me to the left. You see it all over Ohio too, when you'd visit your friends at their schools. So many of these religions are like knife salesmen where they constantly hammer their entire personal network -- which includes you if you go to that school. 1 hour ago, E Rocc said: As far as cities go, I would say that this is one of the reasons lower density can be a good thing. There's less motivation to care about the opinions or actions of people at a distance. Nope. Anyone who has actually dealt with rural folk knows they are way more likely to think they own everything around them and start feuds with their neighbors over their possessiveness. It has been one of the main reasons my friends have had to unload property or move. It's not like a city zoning meeting where a bunch of people who went to college try to figure out how the development rules in their neighborhood work, it's people stealing your quads and power equipment, selling them for drugs then shooting at you when you dare call the cops. Or putting up barricades so that you can't access your own property. Constantly suing you. I know you think that as a lifelong suburbanite that you are our "connection" to rural life since for some reason you think suburbs are more like the country despite their city water, sewer systems, traffic control devices, constant cable TV, good internet, trash pickup, nearby convenient grocery stores, natural gas service, curbside recycling, electricity with limited downtime, restaurants, low-speed roadways but there are many UO users that have far more actual rural experience than you and we know that "the country" is actually a very difficult, time-consuming place to live that makes it very hard to make a living in anything but healthcare. We all haven't lived in downtown towers all our lives.
October 21, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, GCrites80s said: ^When I was in college there were way more people trying to give me the "Good News" than trying to pull me to the left. You see it all over Ohio too, when you'd visit your friends at their schools. So many of these religions are like knife salesmen where they constantly hammer their entire personal network -- which includes you if you go to that school. Nope. Anyone who has actually dealt with rural folk knows they are way more likely to think they own everything around them and start feuds with their neighbors over their possessiveness. It has been one of the main reasons my friends have had to unload property or move. It's not like a city zoning meeting where a bunch of people who went to college try to figure out how the development rules in their neighborhood work, it's people stealing your quads and power equipment, selling them for drugs then shooting at you when you dare call the cops. Or putting up barricades so that you can't access your own property. Constantly suing you. I know you think that as a lifelong suburbanite that you are our "connection" to rural life since for some reason you think suburbs are more like the country despite their city water, sewer systems, traffic control devices, constant cable TV, good internet, trash pickup, nearby convenient grocery stores, natural gas service, curbside recycling, electricity with limited downtime, restaurants, low-speed roadways but there are many UO users that have far more actual rural experience than you and we know that "the country" is actually a very difficult, time-consuming place to live that makes it very hard to make a living in anything but healthcare. We all haven't lived in downtown towers all our lives. Inner ring, middle ring, and now city. I've said this a bunch of times: they are a hybrid of the two formed by the times. To a large degree the suburbs are a product of rural men who came to the city to work during WWII, and wanted to stay close by but bring their families in with them. There's reasons they wanted to get out of the country but they didn't want density either. Neither did the men coming back from WWII. They had their fill of it in ships and barracks. I've said it before: cities which find a way to embrace the sprawl will thrive. Fighting it is a losing battle and a waste of time. Some people will move back in for their own reasons.
October 21, 20222 yr 9 minutes ago, E Rocc said: I've said it before: cities which find a way to embrace the sprawl will thrive. Fighting it is a losing battle and a waste of time. Fighting sprawl might be a losing battle in the short run, but sprawl is a losing battle too. There are limits to how much we can continue to increase the infrastructure and its maintenance (hidden debt) without increasing population. And a more efficient, higher density city does not have to mean returning to 1930s tenement housing.
November 19, 20222 yr To help design the future of cities, we must often look to the past. While we may be tempted to look at the road as it levels neighborhood after neighborhood, don't. Look at the neighborhoods next to the road. Look at how they trade in small structures built in close proximity to each other (the walking city) for larger, fewer structures with many surrounded by parking lots (the car-dependent city). The presence of the highway floods its surrounding with cars and places to accommodate them. It's why highways need to be removed from urban areas. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 20222 yr 28 minutes ago, KJP said: The presence of the highway floods its surrounding with cars and places to accommodate them. It's why highways need to be removed from urban areas. Not only is this another losing battle, if implemented to any degree it would be counterproductive. The freeways are the primary mode of long distance transportation for the vast majority of Americans, and they prefer it that way. Like the western towns on Rt 66 bypassed by the new freeways of the time, a city without interstates would be seen as backwards and remote. It would inevitably shrink and wither.
November 19, 20222 yr 13 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Not only is this another losing battle, if implemented to any degree it would be counterproductive. The freeways are the primary mode of long distance transportation for the vast majority of Americans, and they prefer it that way. Like the western towns on Rt 66 bypassed by the new freeways of the time, a city without interstates would be seen as backwards and remote. It would inevitably shrink and wither. There's a difference between being bypassed entirely by freeways and being bisected by highways. I'm not sure there are many who would argue at this point that we should get rid of highways entirely but the costs of urban highways seems to far outweigh the benefits; in noise and air pollution, in poor land use taken by interchanges and on/off ramps, by dividing neighborhoods and resources.
November 19, 20222 yr The post was about urban areas not long distance travel routes. Good cities and automobiles are incompatible.
November 19, 20222 yr An enormous amount of people simply default to the way things are rather than actively choose them.
November 19, 20222 yr I think there is now much more awareness that the decision to route freeways right through the middle of American cities — rather than the European approach of having highways between and around cities but not right through the heart of them — has caused more harm than good. As many of these older pieces of highway infrastructure reach their end of life, there will be more of a push to narrow, bury, or eliminate segments in the densest areas rather than rebuilding them as-is. This is not "social engineering" or "central planning" or whatever other scary terms Libertarians want to use. It is simply an acknowledgement that engineers and planners made some mistakes in the 1900s and that we need to correct them in the 2000s.
November 19, 20222 yr You also can't say that the vast majority of American prefer highways and driving when, for most Americans, it is the only option for shorter and mid-distance trips. There's a reason that the pro-highway side fights like hell to keep alternatives from being built.
November 19, 20222 yr Unless Americans travel overseas, they cannot comprehend an alternative to a car dependent life. Sadly, they have no idea what they are missing.
Create an account or sign in to comment