Don't discount the possibility of company towns returning. If we are talking about livable, walkable communities then people need to live near where they work. Some of this does sort take place already - see Thompson/Cengage leaving Oakley for Mason, but it could happen on a much broader scale and to be honest with the internet it could just as effective for a large corp to build a town from scratch out than invest in the core. The difference is that they would have housing for their workers near to the workplace.

 

Modern company towns or company sponsored enclaves within a larger community as done in Japan, seem to work very well and benefit the employees and their families. There's also the concept of urban intentional communities, or co-housing with varying degrees of success for past and present examples. A failed company town model would be like Pulllman, Illinois, where the company the town was named after took advantage of the employees and their families. Since privatized, Pullman is now a desireable neighborhood of historic homes. I think the success of company towns depends on the company. Also, historically one-industry towns have not faired well as business climates change over time. Economic diversity seems to create stability and the largest cities are those that have the most economic diversity.

 

John S.

In sort of a first step toward the overall thrust of this discussion and the idea that America will be fundamentally changed in the near future; how about the news that Ford has greatly scaled back their production of trucks and SUV's.  I believe this shows a major shift in the mindset of Americans that we have to change our lifestyles, and this is the first logical step.  This has two effects though, as Ford was looking to finally return to profitability, their main cash cows (SUVs and trucks) just took a major hit.  Auto manufacturers make far more profit on trucks than cars, so this will have a large ripple effect as well throughout the economy and workforce of people in the auto industry.

A little more info on the automotive angle of the discussion.....

 

Bad news for Detroit is spelled MPG

Car buyers finally believe $4 gas is here to stay. The Big Three is scrambling to respond to demand for better fuel efficiency...and it will cost them.

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- It appears that the prospect of $4 gas finally has Americans getting serious about fuel economy.

 

Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) CEO Alan Mulally said Thursday that his company has seen a "tipping point" in buyers' preferences towards smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.

 

And Mulally thinks this shift is here to stay as consumers come to grips with higher prices at the pump. That's why Ford also announced it is cutting production on pickups and sports utility vehicles.

 

...

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/23/news/companies/SUV_tippingpoint/index.htm?postversion=2008052314

What a great topic!!  Lots of great thoughts here too!  Here's my take.

 

First, I am amazed that a focus on overall energy conservation has been but a passing comment.  In my mind, the crisis for my generation (Gen Y) is not oil, but ENERGY.  As India and China emerge, we now have 2-3 billion people aspiring to live an American lifestyle, which is essentially to live easy with a LOT of waste.  I for one don't think that things will come crashing down as oil supplies tighten.  There are just too many well educated people on this planet not to come up with viable solutions.  I think we will be able to move away from oil, but the ENERGY needed will only continue to increase! What happens in 10 years when everyone goes to plug in their cars at night??  What is the price of electricity going to do?

 

This topic really hits home for me.  I recently moved back near Cleveland after working on Hybrids in Detroit.  People need to start thinking of conserving first in everything they do!  There are huge fuel economy gains that can be made.  For example, accelerating more slowly in your vehicle, and driving slower on the highway can result in big gains!  I'm not asking for anyone to go 35 mph on the freeway, but slowdown to 65 from 70.  In the cities, timed traffic lights don't take into account the actual traffic flow. Put some logic into them and replace some of the intersections with traffic circles.  I can go on and on, but I think everyone gets the idea.

 

Oh, and C-Dawg, I have to throw this in...  I have a 4 cyl., 5-spd Chevy Colorado Crew cab....27 mpg  :angel:

 

People can do many things at home such as turning off lights when they don't need them, take shorter showers, use less pre-packaged food, turn down the heat in the winter and put on a sweater, etc.  I'm a big believer in the cumulative impact of these small, seemingly minscule changes.  It isn't just moving closer to where you work, it is a lifestyle change.  I firmly believe that the FIRST step to address the looming energy crisis is to focus on energy CONSERVATION while working to make other technological improvements. 

 

I also agree that we waste a lot of our resources.  The bottom line here in my mind is that money talks and BS walks.  How many people invest in the stock of a company because instead of building a new building for $30 million it refurbished an old building for $50 million?  True, a few people, but they are in the minority.  Few people care about they type of corporate citizen a company is when the look to invest, rather they look at how much profit they are likely to make.  Money is usually the overriding factor in many decisions, not what the action does to the environment or how much energy it takes.  You just have to look above at what the focus of Detroit was for many, many years.

 

As for the housing crisis, this also hits home.  I just lost a LOT of money when I sold my house in Michigan, and there is no end in sight to the housing skid there.  We purchased the home because even as an Engineer for an auto company, I couldn't afford to buy even a small ranch near work. We had to buy 20-30 miles from where I worked and I believe the housing bubble in Detroit was a function of many things.  Fundamental to the housing crisis and, actually, many of these issues, is the American mindset of entitlement.  We believed that we were entitled to a house.  We had to have a house because everyone else had a house.  Sure, the lenders fueled the housing bubble my making money available to almost anyone, even if they obviously couldn't afford it, but we were the ones who applied for the loan.  Personally, I think that the housing downturn is just one of those painful market adjustments that happens once or twice a century.  IMO, Americans buying houses and the lending companies in the 90's-00's, in general, had not been through a recent, painful experience related to over-extending themselves financially.  Now, that reality has hit home and we all see what the lenders and consumers doing. 

 

Additionally, I do think that the increasing price of oil will result in some changes in how our urban centers evolve in the future.  Temperate cities probably have an advantge over those in more extreme environments.  Rail and shipping will likely increase.  I don't know if the urban centers will return to their former, high density glory though.  The places of employment are well dispersed now, and it will take some time for companies to ditch their existing locations in favor of a more centralized location as expenses associated with potentially having to move employees and equipment will likely be high. I don't believe that the "Skilled Labor" of the rust belt is key, on the contrary, I think that is the worst direction we could want to go!  First off, Many of these people are at or near retirement age and will be moving to some type of government support (Medicare, SS, etc.) as they age, further incrasing the financial demand on the younger generations. What I think is needed is EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION.  The world is a much more competitive place and though some manufacturing may return to the US due to the energy crisis, the real money is going to be in further innovation!  Not only are the days of a HS diploma getting you a good job gone, but the days of a Bachelor's degree giving you job security are under attack as well!

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  I for one am at a bit of a crossroads now.  I am looking for a new place to live and want to live close to work to minimize my commute, but I also don't want my children to attend a troubled school district with crime, drugs, and an overall apathy towards education.  I want my kids to have land to run and play and I don't want to worry about the stuff happening a few blocks away spilling over into my neighborhood.  This is a great topic and there are a lot of great ideas here.  :clap:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank God Ford has the Ranger/Mazda B. The 4 cylinder model is the most gas-effiecient truck on earth. My dad owns one and loves it. Despite the 4-banger engine, it performs quite well. Basically, he wanted a truck, but wanted something easy to drive and good on gas. That rules out almost everything besides the Ranger. The regular cab has great handling, a tight turning radius, and the best gas mileage of any truck made today. It averages about 24 mpg between highway and city.

 

Ha, the funny part is that the Ranger was designed in 1992, back when the weight of vehicles was much more reasonable. If they redesign the Ranger for 2010-11 expect it to gain 500-700 pounds and lose its advantage. Car companies (all of them, not just the American ones) can't stop adding weight to their vehicles.

^Why is that? I guess people want a car built "ford tough" but gas prices are ridiculous and unpredictable. This is off topic so if you can, please respond in here. Thanks.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15485.630.html

Funny side note, I was in Mt. Adams yesterday and someone had one of those "Smart" cars, he was able to "parallel" park it perpendicular to the street traffic and still have it not stick out too far in the traffic lane!

I know we have a thread about the status and changes in Detroit, but couldn't find it. But I thought this was an interesting discussion of Detroit, which has some applications to industrial cities in Ohio. The comments following the article are worth reading too, IMHO.....

 

http://www.depression2.tv/d2/node/118

^Some of those comments were far more disturbing than anything I've ever seen even on cleveland.com.  The worst part about it, though, is how no one even acknowledged that there was anything wrong with some of the previous posts displaying some of the worst and most blatant racism I have seen.

^^That is disheartening!!!    Just sick.

Wow.  Racism is alive and well!

Reinforcement for my thought that america is becoming the center of global ignorance.  Sad... Simply sad...  I wonder if the writer has ever been to new york, los angeles, chicago, or miami? Detroit has nothing on those cities when it comes to ghettos, crime, poverty, & run down neighborhoods.

Reinforcement for my thought that america is becoming the center of global ignorance.  Sad... Simply sad...  I wonder if the writer has ever been to new york, los angeles, chicago, or miami? Detroit has nothing on those cities when it comes to ghettos, crime, poverty, & run down neighborhoods.

 

the Writer?  What about the posters?  I feel if that was Cleveland we see some of the same, however, people in Cleveland are quick to say, "at least Cleveland has fallen as far down as Detroit" and ironically folks from Detriot see Cleveland as progressive.

 

There are many cities that are "viewed" as great ie Atlanta or Orlando, when they have many of the same issues as Detroit.

^Agree, I thought writer gave a pretty good story.      Posters.......uh......geez!!!    What the hell is the matter with people?  There heads are going to explode if Obama is elected in Nov.

^Agree, I thought writer gave a pretty good story.      Posters.......uh......geez!!!    What the hell is the matter with people?  There heads are going to explode if Obama is elected in Nov.

 

That could be a good thing in a Martha Stewart-y kinda way.

^ I was actually referring to both the writers & posters. One of the posters had a good point about the marketing standpoint. Orlando definitely has some serious issues, atlanta too for that matter. In orlando, between the city & disney aggressively marketing the city as a safe family destination, people buy into it and don't realize the true issues surrounding the community. Orlando does an excellent job of downplaying anything that could possibly be negative to the city, they even get a lot of help from the media, or as much help as the media could possibly offer.

 

I see Detroit as a victim of its own success & a victim of americas mistakes.

I've been meaning to ask . . . what condition is Cleveland really in? I'm not looking for a three paragraph explanation for why things are the way they are or the smiley-face version (no peak-oil we're all moving back to the city stuff either), a couple sentence sense of where the city stands.

^ I was actually referring to both the writers & posters. One of the posters had a good point about the marketing standpoint. Orlando definitely has some serious issues, atlanta too for that matter. In orlando, between the city & disney aggressively marketing the city as a safe family destination, people buy into it and don't realize the true issues surrounding the community. Orlando does an excellent job of downplaying anything that could possibly be negative to the city, they even get a lot of help from the media, or as much help as the media could possibly offer.

 

I see Detroit as a victim of its own success & a victim of americas mistakes.

 

that could be anywhere.  I rarely use NYC in comparisons, but it wasn't until the past decade that NYC (ie non manhattan) was agressively marketed to tourist.  In Miami, you always see images of MIAMI BEACH, but only the Miami skyline from MIAMI BEACH.

 

When you see a city their CVB & Chamber of Commerce always want media reels on the best.

I have a friend who went to miami last year for summer break, the first time he ever been to miami. He and his friend were robbed at gunpoint outside a club. The first thing I told him was "Welcome to miami, I bet you didn't see that on the tourist brochure". He has his CCW but decided not to take his pistol.

I have a friend who went to miami last year for summer break, the first time he ever been to miami. Him and his friend were robbed at gunpoint outside a club. The first thing I told him was "Welcome to miami, I bet you didn't see that on the tourist brochure". He has his CCW but decided not to take his pistol.

 

I can believe that.

I have a friend who went to miami last year for summer break, the first time he ever been to miami. Him and his friend were robbed at gunpoint outside a club. The first thing I told him was "Welcome to miami, I bet you didn't see that on the tourist brochure". He has his CCW but decided not to take his pistol.

 

I can believe that.

 

I hope so, its true!

I have a friend who went to miami last year for summer break, the first time he ever been to miami. Him and his friend were robbed at gunpoint outside a club. The first thing I told him was "Welcome to miami, I bet you didn't see that on the tourist brochure". He has his CCW but decided not to take his pistol.

 

I can believe that.

 

I hope so, its true!

 

I've been to Miami and Miami Beach many a time.  I've blended in with the Cubans just to make sure I wouldn't get caught in a cross fire.

"I've been meaning to ask . . . what condition is Cleveland really in? I'm not looking for a three paragraph explanation for why things are the way they are or the smiley-face version (no peak-oil we're all moving back to the city stuff either), a couple sentence sense of where the city stands."

 

You'll get a million different opinions on that.  My take is that while things are pretty bad jobs and crime wise, there are a number of developments (Euclid Avenue, CSU's academic rise, Medical Mart, other stuff on these boards) that will help turn things around in a few years.  Unfortunately, at this point in time I would say the negatives probably outweigh the positives since Cleveland never recovered from the 2000 recession.

"I've been meaning to ask . . . what condition is Cleveland really in? I'm not looking for a three paragraph explanation for why things are the way they are or the smiley-face version (no peak-oil we're all moving back to the city stuff either), a couple sentence sense of where the city stands."

 

You'll get a million different opinions on that.  My take is that while things are pretty bad jobs and crime wise, there are a number of developments (Euclid Avenue, CSU's academic rise, Medical Mart, other stuff on these boards) that will help turn things around in a few years.  Unfortunately, at this point in time I would say the negatives probably outweigh the positives since Cleveland never recovered from the 2000 recession.

 

Is this Deja vu?

 

We'll since your so intent on getting an answer, and there will be various, based on who you ask.

 

You, based on what you've written above, think there is a job problem, when I see it as we have plenty of jobs, yet not enough qualified candidates.  I believe that "the no jobs here" is a HUGE misconception.

 

Why are we pretty bad crime wise?  I don't feel unsafe or in danger in my neighborhood or any of the neighborhoods I visit (except Richmond Hts.  :x)  The stats on crime and it's perception must be viewed individually.

 

For example, people say "on the eastside is bad" but make that blanket statement is ridiculous.

 

To wrap this up, I think the city is turning around for the better.  For a place that has been a media handicap for the last three decades, we've managed to hold on to most of the things that made this city great.  The city proper is no longer hemorrhaging citizens and suburbanites are rethinking the reasons they moved out of the city.  In fact suburbs are losing population and poverty is become a real issue especially in "perceived rich suburbs".

 

The city has been managed well (including campbells admin.) and checks and balances and accountability are on front line.

 

I could go on, but this is my experience.

 

I have a friend who went to miami last year for summer break, the first time he ever been to miami. Him and his friend were robbed at gunpoint outside a club. The first thing I told him was "Welcome to miami, I bet you didn't see that on the tourist brochure". He has his CCW but decided not to take his pistol.

 

I can believe that.

 

I hope so, its true!

 

I've been to Miami and Miami Beach many a time. I've blended in with the Cubans just to make sure I wouldn't get caught in a cross fire.

 

When I lived in north carolina I had a good friend & co-worker who was Puerto Rican but born & raised in miami. He always made references to the crime and what would happen in this certain situation if we were in miami. Carolina was a culture shock to both of us but he would dwell upon it too much, especially when he was stoned. He always had good stories about the Puerto Ricans vs the Cubans and the resulting turf wars. He would make comments like "These people just don't know",  "How do they survive?"  He was also semi-racist. Come to find out, this was his first time moving away from home & he was discovering the real world. I had ask him a few times why he doesn't move back and he always had some sort of excuse. My conclusion was, he discovered country folk & rednecks weren't as bad as he first thought. He often referred to the locals as "country folk or rednecks", With that I did concur.

^That's like Cincinnati. People say the west side is bad but it really just depends on what part. Lower Price Hill is completely run down but the actual crime rate is extremely low. Most crime is in the center of the city in areas that aren't considered the east or west side. It's just a convenient way for people to generalize I guess.

I also think the crime situation is generally better, except when it comes to the murder rate (obviously, a huge exception). But the old saying in the media is that "if it bleeds, it leads." So the public has the misconception that all crime is getting worse when only one aspect of it is.

 

As for jobs, if you can't find a job in Greater Cleveland, then you're not looking or you're trained for the wrong field. If you've got only a high school education and are trained only in assembly line work, then your perception of Cleveland's economy will be very negative. But if you're interested in working in health care, graphic design, arts, construction/renovation and even in machine tools, then you will probably love Cleveland's economy.

I also think the crime situation is generally better, except when it comes to the murder rate (obviously, a huge exception). But the old saying in the media is that "if it bleeds, it leads." So the public has the misconception that all crime is getting worse when only one aspect of it is.

 

As for jobs, if you can't find a job in Greater Cleveland, then you're not looking or you're trained for the wrong field. If you've got only a high school education and are trained only in assembly line work, then your perception of Cleveland's economy will be very negative. But if you're interested in working in health care, graphic design, arts, construction/renovation and even in machine tools, then you will probably love Cleveland's economy.

 

The first thing I ask people when they say the job situation is bad, I ask them "What can you do?, what jobs are you qualified to do?" The usual response is nothing impressive. I have been known to offend people, but damn! It seems to me jobs are a plenty if people actually look. It could be that I am just smarter than the average bear! ;)

I also think the crime situation is generally better, except when it comes to the murder rate (obviously, a huge exception). But the old saying in the media is that "if it bleeds, it leads." So the public has the misconception that all crime is getting worse when only one aspect of it is.

 

As for jobs, if you can't find a job in Greater Cleveland, then you're not looking or you're trained for the wrong field. If you've got only a high school education and are trained only in assembly line work, then your perception of Cleveland's economy will be very negative. But if you're interested in working in health care, graphic design, arts, construction/renovation and even in machine tools, then you will probably love Cleveland's economy.

 

The first thing I ask people when they say the job situation is bad, I ask them "What can you do?, what jobs are you qualified to do?" The usual response is nothing impressive. I have been known to offend people, but damn! It seems to me jobs are a plenty if people actually look. It could be that I am just smarter than the average bear! ;)

 

I ask the same thing.

 

Many people I’ve spoken to fail to realize that in 2007, we officially became a white collar city.

 

Our blue collar past has brainwashed so many into thinking that they would be set for life with a high school diploma.  Thank you auto manufacturers and unions! 

 

Now that the biggest job increases in Cleveland are medical, finance and accounting, banking, insurance and Law related many people (30 and 40 somethings) don’t have the skills to fill those open white collar positions. In addition we’re diversifying in many other areas like travel and tourism, theatre-arts-culture and have a growing food/culinary industry.

 

I think the city, current companies and the school district are taking the necessary precautions to prepare the upcoming high school graduates and local college grads for careers that are big now and are destined to be big in the future.

 

Crime only really matters to me when it affects our willingness to be out and about. If there is a high murder rate because a bunch of gang members and drug dealers are shooting each other well that is their problem not mine. On the other hand, if there is a fair bit of stranger crime (carjacking, muggings, breaking and entering, and those sorts of things) then that really means that crime is a problem and it will prevent a city from getting any real recovery going.

 

Every city has differences depending on neighborhood, the key is whether the aggregate is better or worse than the situation in each neighborhood. Cincinnati and Columbus have large swathes of the city (an overwhelming majority) that I feel perfectly safe being in and moving through, that was not the case with Philadelphia or Detroit or the southside of Chicago.

I'm not gonna lie, after reading about a random person getting shot in the face the other day for doing nothing more than driving in their car in OTR, I was a bit nervous about taking a cab to the greyhound station from Clifton Heights. Especially since it has happend many times recently. Even though most shootings are drug related, other people get caught in the crossfire. I've walked through some off-the-beaten-path places in OTR many times this year and thought nothing of it but when you read stuff like that it really changes your perception to where you don't even want to drive through. I noticed the cab drivers always lock their doors and roll their windows up every time I take one downtown.

MTS and Time hit it right on the head... we don't have a jobs problem, we have an employment pool problem.  Too many people who got fat on good paying manufacturing jobs that no longer exist. These people need to adapt or they will be left in the dust. If you are educated with any form of experience there are tons of opportunities here.

MTS and Time hit it right on the head... we don't have a jobs problem, we have an employment pool problem.  Too many people who got fat on good paying manufacturing jobs that no longer exist. These people need to adapt or they will be left in the dust. If you are educated with any form of experience there are tons of opportunities here.

 

AMEN BROTHA MCCLEVELAND!  AMEN!

As for jobs, if you can't find a job in Greater Cleveland, then you're not looking or you're trained for the wrong field. If you've got only a high school education and are trained only in assembly line work, then your perception of Cleveland's economy will be very negative. But if you're interested in working in health care, graphic design, arts, construction/renovation and even in machine tools, then you will probably love Cleveland's economy.

 

I have to disagree with that.  Me, my husband the vast majority of my friends have degrees in arts-releated fields and there is little to no good paying work, let alone work with insurance and benefits here.  As an artist in this town, you either need to sell out and take some job you hate doing something completely not related to your degree or scrape by on what jobs you can get, doing without insurance, going without car repairs when needed, still living like a college student with roomates and ramen noodles when past 40.  IMO about 60-40 split with the 60 having the unrelated jobs (I am one of those).

As for jobs, if you can't find a job in Greater Cleveland, then you're not looking or you're trained for the wrong field. If you've got only a high school education and are trained only in assembly line work, then your perception of Cleveland's economy will be very negative. But if you're interested in working in health care, graphic design, arts, construction/renovation and even in machine tools, then you will probably love Cleveland's economy.

 

I have to disagree with that.  Me, my husband the vast majority of my friends have degrees in arts-releated fields and there is little to no good paying work, let alone work with insurance and benefits here.  As an artist in this town, you either need to sell out and take some job you hate doing something completely not related to your degree or scrape by on what jobs you can get, doing without insurance, going without car repairs when needed, still living like a college student with roomates and ramen noodles when past 40.  IMO about 60-40 split with the 60 having the unrelated jobs (I am one of those).

 

Really?  MayDay seems to live fabulously.  KJP, like me, could you be using "arts" as a catch all for all related, arts careers/jobs?

Generally, I think my UO buddies are way too optimistic about ALL of Cleveland, but that's their endearing side  :-D

 

Personally, I think our housing problem is similar to what is going on in many other cities, but does not have job and/or population growth to balance it off.  Take Phoenix, for example, whose housing problem is way worse than ours in terms of decline in value and inability to sell while properties new to the market continue to be priced too high, but they have huge job and population growth and continue to grow each year.  More and more of my friends and colleagues seem to be leaving Cleveland.  there is almost no one left anymore is how it feels sometimes.  I would say at least once a month someone at my job is leaving to take a job in another state in a growth market like Charlotte or Atlanta.  Three of my friends have left in the past year for jobs in various parts of California.

 

I think the jobs/economy situation is bad all over right now but a town like ours can be harder hit because we don't seem to have a big growth industry that is causes growth to balance it out.  Belts are tight in every industry and not loosening any time soon.  I think our restaurant industry is the only area I have seen large and visible growth in recent years and while that's great, people don't JUST want to go out to eat, they want things to do, and I don't see those things growing along with the places to eat.

 

I think that Clevelanders are starting to make changes about how and when they spend their money and that is not good for the local economy either.  People are eating out less, taking fewer trips, buying less consumer goods, making choices at the grocery that are cheaper, etc.

 

I think the job situation here is pretty bad.  I had a really hard time finding good work when I got laid off a few years ago and if it happened to me now, I don't know where I'd go or what I'd do and would likely have to take an enormous pay cut just to get a regular paying job with benefits again. 

 

I think that Clevelanders are starting to make changes about how and when they spend their money and that is not good for the local economy either.  People are eating out less, taking fewer trips, buying less consumer goods, making choices at the grocery that are cheaper, etc.

 

I wouldn't say all of us are.

 

I think that Clevelanders are starting to make changes about how and when they spend their money and that is not good for the local economy either. People are eating out less, taking fewer trips, buying less consumer goods, making choices at the grocery that are cheaper, etc.

 

I wouldn't say all of us are.

 

Ok, GENERALLY SPEAKING this is what I think.  Obviously everything I say doesn't apply to everyone, including my boss who is still buying plenty of $800 purses and who drives her kids from Brunswick to Cleveland Heights just because they want a shake from Tommy's, which they then drink half of and leave the other half in the back seat cup holders to rot.

 

I think that Clevelanders are starting to make changes about how and when they spend their money and that is not good for the local economy either.  People are eating out less, taking fewer trips, buying less consumer goods, making choices at the grocery that are cheaper, etc.

 

I wouldn't say all of us are.

 

Ok, GENERALLY SPEAKING this is what I think.  Obviously everything I say doesn't apply to everyone, including my boss who is still buying plenty of $800 purses and who drives her kids from Brunswick to Cleveland Heights just because they want a shake from Tommy's, which they then drink half of and leave the other half in the back seat cup holders to rot.

 

Your boss sounds like my kinda girl, in regard to the purses.  The driving to/from brunswick is crazy!  and food waste...ugh.  We didn't have that in my parents house.  But now that I think about it, my brother would eat anything, so we never had leftovers.

Generally, I think my UO buddies are way too optimistic about ALL of Cleveland, but that's their endearing side  :-D

 

Maybe we think you're way too pessimistic about ALL of Cleveland... we'll call it a checks and balances system. :-D

Not in my neighborhood! I'm surprised at how many people are still eating out. And when I was downtown on Monday, I was amazed at the number of people in the Warehouse District -- on a Monday night!

 

There are most definitely growth industries in Cleveland!! Health care in this town is off the charts -- Cleveland Clinic has new employee orientations every Monday and there's an average 100 people coming to those. Progressive Insurance couldn't find enough qualified local hires to fill more than 2,000 vacant jobs, so they opened a $60 million office complex in Denver. There's between 5,000-8,000 technology, health care and bio-tech jobs unfilled on Nortech's Web site at any given time. And the machine tool makers are begging for qualified workers.

 

After I wrote in Sun Newspapers about this worker shortage problem at various sectors of Northeast Ohio's economy, I got more letters and phone calls about this than just about any other column I've written. And all the feedback, including from Senator Sherrod Brown, the Fund for Our Economic Future, Polaris Career Center, etc., was in agreement with my column.

 

So there.

"Me, my husband the vast majority of my friends have degrees in arts-releated fields and there is little to no good paying work, let alone work with insurance and benefits here.  As an artist in this town, you either need to sell out and take some job you hate doing something completely not related to your degree or scrape by on what jobs you can get, doing without insurance, going without car repairs when needed, still living like a college student with roomates and ramen noodles when past 40."

 

I don't know if I "live fabulously", but in all honesty, I've had the complete opposite experience. I've been working as a graphic designer since 1996 - I began as a designer for a weekly newspaper group making $7.50 an hour plus benefits, and with the exception of September-December of 2001, I've *never* been out of a full-time job and I'm now at an Art Director level with decent pay (for the industry). In addition to that, my freelancing opportunities have pretty much exploded over the past year - to the point where if one more project comes my way, I may have to decline.

 

I will say though - I've noticed a lot of people in my industry, particularly younger types who complain about wanting to break into the industry but "only if I get to work on really cool and creative stuff". Some might call it selling out, I call it paying your dues and proving your mettle so the next job you get allows you more creativity. You don't just plop down at your first job and not have to do grunt work. It's no easier anywhere else because in larger/trendier markets, you're competing with the trustfund kids who only want the job so they keep getting their check from the folks.

 

Mind you, my arts-related industry is much more conducive to working in the mainstream business world. For people trying to land a great-paying gig in fine/performing arts, I imagine things aren't quite as easy.

Generally, I think my UO buddies are way too optimistic about ALL of Cleveland, but that's their endearing side :-D

 

Maybe we think you're way too pessimistic about ALL of Cleveland... we'll call it a checks and balances system. :-D

 

Fair enough.  It could have to do with social circles as well though, no?  I am basing my comments not solely on my personal experience, but that of my friends and co-workers.  If your friends/family/co-workers are having different experiences, that could be social or cultural difference, not pessimism vs. optimism.

Not in my neighborhood! I'm surprised at how many people are still eating out. And when I was downtown on Monday, I was amazed at the number of people in the Warehouse District -- on a Monday night!

 

There are most definitely growth industries in Cleveland!! Health care in this town is off the charts -- Cleveland Clinic has new employee orientations every Monday and there's an average 100 people coming to those. Progressive Insurance couldn't find enough qualified local hires to fill more than 2,000 vacant jobs, so they opened a $60 million office complex in Denver. There's between 5,000-8,000 technology, health care and bio-tech jobs unfilled on Nortech's Web site at any given time. And the machine tool makers are begging for qualified workers.

 

After I wrote in Sun Newspapers about this worker shortage problem at various sectors of Northeast Ohio's economy, I got more letters and phone calls about this than just about any other column I've written. And all the feedback, including from Senator Sherrod Brown, the Fund for Our Economic Future, Polaris Career Center, etc., was in agreement with my column.

 

So there.

 

I can say the same about Shaker Square/Larchmere.  The streets and sidewalks are packed with diners on most night.  On weekends, with families the patios are packed. 

 

There are more bikers than ever coming to the Square.

There are a lot more people visible now because it is finally WARM out.  That is not the same thing as not having a general drop off in business, which you could easily see as little as a couple of months ago when many restaurants you'd go to were nearly vacant.  People are spending more because they want to go out more now that it's nice out, but I am not talking about places with patios or sidewalk cafes, I'm talking about the general restaurant business in Cleveland.  I think if you asked anyone other than Michael Symon or Jonathan Sawyer, in general the restaurant business has been struggling for some time here.  Summer is a much needed boon to the businesses but once the cold weather comes, combined with the reality check of those who overspent or lived on credit in the warmer months, it will be tough for many restaurants to survive throughout the coming winter.  I went in many, many restaurants over the course of the winter and early spring where I was one of maybe a handful of other diners. 

 

Attendance at local arts events is way, way down as well, speaking particularly of local theatre.  Many of our great local theaters have closed down in the past couple of years or gone to not having a space and travling around to put on performances where they can, or a very reduced performance schedule. 

 

And yes, I was speaking about the performing arts.  Graphics is a much more stable business that goes hand in hand with all businesses - what business doesn't have SOME graphic needs.  It's certainly an art, as is architecture, but I was speaking about performing arts.  I also don't consider entry level jobs in your field selling out, I consider those an important experience.

I don't know - outside of certain larger markets, I don't know that ANYONE with a performing arts degree who can say that there are good-paying-jobs-aplenty. It's not exactly a huge industry as it is, and where jobs ARE available (the larger markets) the competition along with the cost of living in those markets is absolutely brutal. Let's face it, there's only so much demand for that kind of background.

 

Sure, certain cities are more geared toward certain industries but I don't see that necessarily as a knock on Cleveland. Your personal experiences seem to have skewed your outlook (not that I blame you), but I think it's also made you less objective.

I don't know - outside of certain larger markets, I don't know that ANYONE with a performing arts degree who can say that there are good-paying-jobs-aplenty. It's not exactly a huge industry as it is, and where jobs ARE available (the larger markets) the competition along with the cost of living in those markets is absolutely brutal. Let's face it, there's only so much demand for that kind of background.

 

Sure, certain cities are more geared toward certain industries but I don't see that necessarily as a knock on Cleveland. Your personal experiences seem to have skewed your outlook (not that I blame you), but I think it's also made you less objective.

 

Well, there are a lot of jobs related to the performing arts besides actually performing.  Those jobs here are also very few and far between and very low paying compared to similar jobs in other areas.  For example, more and more theaters are not employing technical directors and master electricians and carpeters as FT staff positions but instead hire them job by job and only for part time work.  Stage managers often go unpaid or receive very little, and it's also PT.  Set designer and lighting technician jobs are almost non-existent and forget about the pay for directors or actors.  And the arts-related fundraising or office type jobs here really pay poorly. I don't doubt that my experiences (and those of my friends) give me a bias, but the OP asked for personal opinions, and that is my opinion, based on the experiences of those in my social circle.

I don't know - outside of certain larger markets, I don't know that ANYONE with a performing arts degree who can say that there are good-paying-jobs-aplenty. It's not exactly a huge industry as it is, and where jobs ARE available (the larger markets) the competition along with the cost of living in those markets is absolutely brutal. Let's face it, there's only so much demand for that kind of background.

 

Sure, certain cities are more geared toward certain industries but I don't see that necessarily as a knock on Cleveland. Your personal experiences seem to have skewed your outlook (not that I blame you), but I think it's also made you less objective.

 

Well, there are a lot of jobs related to the performing arts besides actually performing.  Those jobs here are also very few and far between and very low paying compared to similar jobs in other areas.  For example, more and more theaters are not employing technical directors and master electricians and carpeters as FT staff positions but instead hire them job by job and only for part time work.  Stage managers often go unpaid or receive very little, and it's also PT.  Set designer and lighting technician jobs are almost non-existent and forget about the pay for directors or actors.  And the arts-related fundraising or office type jobs here really pay poorly. I don't doubt that my experiences (and those of my friends) give me a bias, but the OP asked for personal opinions, and that is my opinion, based on the experiences of those in my social circle.

 

Question, doesn't the hiring have to do with Unions not the theatre itself?

I don't know - outside of certain larger markets, I don't know that ANYONE with a performing arts degree who can say that there are good-paying-jobs-aplenty. It's not exactly a huge industry as it is, and where jobs ARE available (the larger markets) the competition along with the cost of living in those markets is absolutely brutal. Let's face it, there's only so much demand for that kind of background.

 

Well, there are a lot of jobs related to the performing arts besides actually performing. 

 

I agree with MayDay - that's a tough field to break into.  For example, my dream job as a high school kid was to be a play by play commentator for some pro sports team.  Obvisouly, there are only so many of those positions available.  I could have worked the long and hard road of a journalist in minor markets, but once I got to college, I steared towards something with a little more opportunity.

 

On the other hand, I moved away from Ohio after college b/c work opportunities (or the lack thereof).  After 4 years in Texas I was ready to move back home but it took me 1.5 years of searching before I was able to move back.

Performing arts can be a very difficult field. My theater type in-law cousins think of Cleveland as sort of a midwest mecca for theater.

 

But when growing cities like Miami and Columbus lose their orchestras, it should be somewhat of a wake up call. We have a severe "grass is always greener" mentality in Cleveland. That is not to say things are rosy here, but I just think that many people who do not find success here much too readily place blame upon the City and not upon themselves. It is the easy thing to do.

 

Upon returning to Cleveland, I found an ideal job almost immediately. Additionally, my non-native wife thinks Cleveland is a professional heaven (Cleveland Clinic). We've had very good experiences so far.