I can’t read the articles. Is there any retail component or is it just apartments. I can stomach a bland design, but if there’s not even a bit of retail proposed for a project this size, that seems problematic.

What's on that site at present?  I'm not familiar with that exact parcel.  I agree that there's nothing special about the design - but, on the other hand (depending on the exact materials being utilized) its pretty consistent with a lot of  apartment projects  I see going up in my area  (10 minutes from Manhattan).   I like that it has significant size, provides a new-build option downtown and will put more residents on the river's edge with  water views.

 

Edited October 11, 20213 yr by CleveFan

36 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

What's on that site at present?  I'm not familiar with that exact parcel.  I agree that there's nothing special about the design - but, on the other hand (depending on the exact materials being utilized) its pretty consistent with a lot of  apartment projects  I see going up in my area  (10 minutes from Manhattan).   I like that it has significant size, provides a new-build option downtown and will put more residents on the river's edge with  water views.

 

Weeds and dirt. 

Man, this site (Scranton Peninsula) is inevitably going to be a missed opportunity. However, whatever it takes to keep building new units in this City I’m all for it I guess. We need another 100k within a 1 mile radius.

KJP -Is  this the same site where the NRP group Withdrew from AFTER getting CPC approval 

because of the covid-19 pandemic.

Well Design Review and the Planning Commission tore apart the NRP proposal (much to their surprise).  Maybe they have the energy for a second go around.

46 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Well Design Review and the Planning Commission tore apart the NRP proposal (much to their surprise).  Maybe they have the energy for a second go around.

 

How was the NRP proposal different and why did the commission tear it apart? bad design/planning/density/uses?

It’s fine to me 🤷🏿‍♂️

5 hours ago, simplythis said:

KJP -Is  this the same site where the NRP group Withdrew from AFTER getting CPC approval 

because of the covid-19 pandemic.

NO, this is the 4 acre site across the road from the former NRP's 7 acre site.  This site is located between the river and Carter Road. 

 

MAYBE at some point we could get both sites developed with two large apartment developments!  And just think what a total of 600+ new apartments and townhouses, Brewdog, Great Lakes Brewing, new trails, and a park would TOTALLY TRANSFORM Scranton Peninsula!

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by Larry1962

10 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I can’t read the articles. Is there any retail component or is it just apartments. I can stomach a bland design, but if there’s not even a bit of retail proposed for a project this size, that seems problematic.

The article makes no mention of retail unfortunately. 

While I'm normally not a fan of this kind of thinking, I think Scranton Peninsula is a place where it makes sense to hold out for the right opportunity to develop it. It's hard to find that much continuous, nearly undeveloped, land that close to the heart of a major city. I think we should hold it out for a transformative project. (Personally I think it'd be a great park, but I know that's not a popular opinion on this site). 

1 minute ago, Ethan said:

While I'm normally not a fan of this kind of thinking, I think Scranton Peninsula is a place where it makes sense to hold out for the right opportunity to develop it. It's hard to find that much continuous, nearly undeveloped, land that close to the heart of a major city. I think we should hold it out for a transformative project. (Personally I think it'd be a great park, but I know that's not a popular opinion on this site). 

 

I agree with your first opinion :)  

 

This really does feel like a once-in-a-century opportunity to develop.   

I am on board with opinions that the design is mundane for such an important site with so much potential and indeed looks like a senior assisted living complex in Beachwood.  I am not looking for cutting edge but definitely something more urban.  There are two major river front projects being developed in Chicago right now on old industrial land (Lincoln Yards to the north and the 78 on the south branch).  I know both of these are huge projects by large well financed developers in a city that can command higher rents, and any Scranton development cannot really compare, but the conceptual architecture for those two big projects is what I would like to see for this site.

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by Htsguy

I am going to echo the last few sentiments. This thing needs to get laughed out of the planning committee. The peninsula is the most unique developable property in Cleveland, and plopping this monstrosity down on it just for the sake of getting something built there is short-sighted and foolish, to say the least.

I don't think it's as hideous as some are making it out to be. That said, it's very plain... It's a hodgepodge of Battery Park Lofts and The Edison - but a cheapened version with no frills. 

 

I think even subtle design changes could make this a lot better. 

 

For one, all units facing the water should have a balcony or terrace. They also need to ditch the "parking garage" design for the existing balconies. Even just increasing the size of the windows would go a long way. 

Edited October 12, 20213 yr by BJBaes

20 minutes ago, BJBaes said:

I don't think it's as hideous as some are making it out to be. That said, it's very plain... It's a hodgepodge of Battery Park Lofts and The Edison - but a cheapened version with no frills. 

 

I think even subtle design changes could make this a lot better. 

 

For one, all units facing the water should have a balcony or terrace. They also need to ditch the "parking garage" design for the existing balconies. Even just increasing the size of the windows would go a long way. 

If this is a cheaper version of the Edison then it is really in trouble.

oh, so this is where they decided to build the new jail.

 

👎

This is too cool of a location for just a neighborhood. It's surrounded on three sides by water and well connected to the local trail network. At a minimum, it should have some form of public benefit. I'd like a park or green space, but ground floor restaurants and retail, along with boardwalks or green space on the riverfront would be almost as good, and should be the minimum for any development proposal here to get approved.

11 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

oh, so this is where they decided to build the new jail.

 

👎

On the plus side, this means we get to extend the Opportunity Corridor. Before it even officially opens!

Is there enough room to carve some inlets, so there is space either for a marina, or just some docks for boats?

How about carve a half dozen small canals, to make our own version of Venice? Or even just one like in Scottsdale?

1 minute ago, scg80 said:

How about carve a half dozen small canals, to make our own version of Venice? Or even just one like in Scottsdale?

 

that would take half a brain for a developer to come up with.

 

unlike this ugly, outdated, off the shelf plan, which ignores the setting and only took one quarter of a brain.

 

🤮

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

This is too cool of a location for just a neighborhood. It's surrounded on three sides by water and well connected to the local trail network. At a minimum, it should have some form of public benefit. I'd like a park or green space, but ground floor restaurants and retail, along with boardwalks or green space on the riverfront would be almost as good, and should be the minimum for any development proposal here to get approved.

Something like San Diego's Seaport Village would be nice.

It’s a gross overreaction going on around here lol. It’s not that bad

Here's a site plan.

 

The site plan actually looks great.  Just needs a better façade. 

Y'all!!! Not every development is going to be jaw dropping. This isn't bad, has some nice communal spaces, and would add density in that area to support the expansion of retail/restaurant/entertainment traffic to the peninsula. 

 

Agreed - the facade isn't great - but that's my only substantial gripe. 

2 hours ago, tykaps said:

Here's a site plan.

 

 

The site plan makes me feel more comfortable, and should do a LOT to temper some of very negative reactions. This is a tiny sliver of the peninsula. Let's get a foot in the door with SOME development and then we can be more picky about the rest.

Design aside, at least there isn't a bunch of surface parking like the NRP group's plan on the other side of Carter.

9 minutes ago, Mendo said:

Design aside, at least there isn't a bunch of surface parking like the NRP group's plan on the other side of Carter.

Agreed. Site plan is good, design needs work!

Maybe not the best design, but makes me feel better about brewdog. How long could they last out there alone? 

 

And if they would have failed would that make investors nervous, delaying future development. 

 

But hopefully that's all hypotheticals and this is the start of a dynamic new neighborhood!

Edited October 13, 20213 yr by Luke_S

^ in other BrewDog news:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2044320419054074

 

And I’m seeing some beer making equipment in those photos… I had thought it was only a Taproom … but must at least be small local batch

1 hour ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

^ in other BrewDog news:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2044320419054074

 

And I’m seeing some beer making equipment in those photos… I had thought it was only a Taproom … but must at least be small local batch

Wow, loooove the aesthetic. Posh meets grunge. 
 

I too am pleasantly surprised by the fermenters, which should earn BrewDog CLE full brewery status. Hopefully we get some local special brews out of it, but if not we’ll at least get more points on the “best beer city” metrics!

I wish we could see some brownstones mixed into this peninsula.  It would also be nice to see some for sale opportunities down there.  Overall, like a few have said above, the site plan isn't bad.  We've gotta get things moving down there somehow.  

Honestly, disregarding the obvious lackluster "architecture," the site plan is mostly fine. I'd have preferred the smaller buildings to feel a little less "plopped into the site" but that's not worth arguing about in my mind. Personally I think it could be a great development with one or two corner retail spaces on the ground floor and a more hardscape, outdoor cafe type sidewalk fronting that chunk of the building. It's almost "good enough" urbanism with the exception of lacking a single connection point to ground it to the sidewalk. I think that's really the only thing lacking here. It could be as simple as a small-scale coffee shop/cafe with a few outdoor seats and it'd be good to go.

A small coffee-shop breakfast-lunch deli makes a lot of sense over there. 

11 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

A small coffee-shop breakfast-lunch deli makes a lot of sense over there. 

I think this could work especially with the bike trail that comes through there.  It would be a nice spot to spot while riding. 

So this is the parcel next to the parcel that NRP withdrew from, Does anyone know if there

is anything happening on that NRP Parcel

42 minutes ago, simplythis said:

So this is the parcel next to the parcel that NRP withdrew from, Does anyone know if there

is anything happening on that NRP Parcel

 

It's across the street from it. The parcel is in play. I'm hoping to write an article about it someday.

is that a swimming pool i see in michelle's site plan tweet? that's nice to have.

 

i am not so enthralled with the site plan either as i see some are.  it looks like a dorm in collegetown, anywhere, usa. i wish it was at least split up more.

 

but on the strongly positive side i am very impressed with them taking what i am sure feels like a gamble and building on this particular site -- and i have no doubt it will be successful.

I don't mind that site plan. They actually designed the parking deck perfectly where you can't even tell it's there. In regards to the exterior, I think my only problem with it is how the red brick and the red facade clash. Also, not a fan of the random brick peaks. Makes me think of a suburban hotel.

The aerial view of the site plan shows just how much work there is to do down there but how much potential the neighborhood has. 

Is there a master plan for the entire peninsula?

2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Is there a master plan for the entire peninsula?

https://perkinswill.com/project/scranton-peninsula-master-plan-thunderbird/

https://jrocdevelopment.com/thunderbird-cleveland/

It's from a few years back

1 minute ago, BuckeyePlanner said:

https://perkinswill.com/project/scranton-peninsula-master-plan-thunderbird/

https://jrocdevelopment.com/thunderbird-cleveland/

It's from a few years back

https://www.clevescene.com/media/pdf/thunderbird.pdf

Tweet thread about design review reactions

 

31 minutes ago, gpodawund said:

Tweet thread about design review reactions

 

Not surprised by this and I guess I am in the camp that says good for them.  I hope it results in some major changes.  Curious what their specific complaints are.

I guess it was tabled by design so no vote today.  Surprise expressed that this was Dimits work as it is usually so much better.

Good- this will be the creation of a neighborhood pretty much from scratch.  Standards should be higher given the location.  

I was curious and took just a quick look at Edwards Communities website,  Looks like most of their developments are bland suburban stuff built on green fields (although looks like a couple of exceptions but again did not explore in detail at this point) and this seems to be what they know.