October 14, 20213 yr Comments from design review..."lowest common denominator building"...."not a lot of research" of site....did not "consider the context, the river, bridges, city skyline and industrial legacy". Again not surprised by this given Edwards portfolio. Seems like what they know is cookie cutter suburban apartments and just want to plop one of those down on the peninsula.
October 14, 20213 yr I am simultaneously glad that that there is design pushback and biting my fingernails that the pushback doesn't derail this project. It shouldn't--because the changes that are needed shouldn't be that hard to make. So much time has been wasted on this prime land that I hope we get to see the peninsula's wonderful transformation sooner than later.
October 14, 20213 yr From a design perspective, I keep envision one that is similar to Signet's Foundry Lofts in Midtown. I'm guessing the gabled roofs in Silverhill's was to mimic warehouse buildings, but they missed big time on materials and it's connection to industry and shipping. Some simple height changes and more of a brick patterning might do it for me. And if they added an old Hulett (with colored uplighting) in the courtyard as a sort of monument to Cleveland shipping history, that could better link the building's design to the area.
October 14, 20213 yr ^ Agreed the Foundry Lofts in MidTown is my favorite project currently. I love the darker brick and the industrial vibe. I could see rows and rows of those on SP on narrow streets positioned along a boardwalk and boat docks. https://www.foundryloftscle.com/
November 10, 20213 yr On 10/12/2021 at 2:12 PM, tykaps said: Here's a site plan. Here's the updated version that would have been presented November 5th, though unfortunately the meeting ended too early. For more info, see https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/schedule.php under the presentations section, November 5, pages 369-395 Edited November 10, 20213 yr by tykaps
November 10, 20213 yr ^Actually not too bad. I think the white area on the ends of the buildings need some more improvement. Seems a little bland, but other than that, the site plan is much improved
November 10, 20213 yr 7 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said: ^Actually not too bad. I think the white area on the ends of the buildings need some more improvement. Seems a little bland, but other than that, the site plan is much improved Agree. It is an improvement over the prior rendering, but that white is brutal. Mix in a few small retail opportunities with BrewDog close by and its a great start.
November 10, 20213 yr Author 3 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said: Agree. It is an improvement over the prior rendering, but that white is brutal. Mix in a few small retail opportunities with BrewDog close by and its a great start. I've been hearing some rumors that Brewdog may have something larger planned down there, like a brewing facility and/or canning line similar to what Great Lakes was considering. Not sure how reliable those rumors are, so I've not written anything about it yet. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, WindyBuckeye said: Agree. It is an improvement over the prior rendering, but that white is brutal. Mix in a few small retail opportunities with BrewDog close by and its a great start. I actually don't hate the white because it's not some sort of aluminum siding. Reminds me of May Co. Depending on the material used it could be nice. Though, I think you can say that for any project. Materials used make or break a color.
November 10, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, WindyBuckeye said: Great Lakes Expansion, Cleveland Whiskey new spot, and Brewdog. Booze row Brew Boulevard
November 10, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: I've been hearing some rumors that Brewdog may have something larger planned down there, like a brewing facility and/or canning line similar to what Great Lakes was considering. Not sure how reliable those rumors are, so I've not written anything about it yet. They've got several tank fermenters installed at the location, so unless those are some stupid-expensive decorations, at least some beer will be brewed onsite. I've got a hard time understanding why they'd do a substantial canning operation here since their HQ is Columbus. But that would be great if they do!
November 10, 20213 yr 1 minute ago, LlamaLawyer said: They've got several tank fermenters installed at the location, so unless those are some stupid-expensive decorations, at least some beer will be brewed onsite. I've got a hard time understanding why they'd do a substantial canning operation here since their HQ is Columbus. But that would be great if they do! Is that their US HQ, because their from Ellon, Scotland? That's their global HQ.
November 10, 20213 yr Author 3 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: They've got several tank fermenters installed at the location, so unless those are some stupid-expensive decorations, at least some beer will be brewed onsite. I've got a hard time understanding why they'd do a substantial canning operation here since their HQ is Columbus. But that would be great if they do! Yep, the info may be wrong. And as we've seen, even when it's right, as with Great Lakes planning a facility there, it doesn't mean anything is going to happen for a while. Hopefully it does someday with Great Lakes. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 20213 yr 6 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: Is that their US HQ, because their from Ellon, Scotland? That's their global HQ. Correct.
November 10, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: Is that their US HQ, because their from Ellon, Scotland? That's their global HQ. Yes, I think it was their first U.S. location. It's in outer-suburban Columbus, and in addition to a pretty substantial production facility, they have a brewery/restaurant on site, as well as a boutique hotel that is beer and dog-themed. It's pretty cool, though it loses points in my book for being 25 minutes from downtown Columbus.
November 11, 20213 yr On 11/10/2021 at 9:03 AM, WindyBuckeye said: Agree. It is an improvement over the prior rendering, but that white is brutal. Mix in a few small retail opportunities with BrewDog close by and its a great start. Actually BrewDog will be right next door and they will also be making small batches of beer onsite. And I've also heard that a couple of developers are considering building a apartment complex on the former NRP seven acre site on the other side of Carter Road too. Edited November 11, 20213 yr by Larry1962 More details and typos.
December 3, 20213 yr BrewDog, while cool, is decidedly suburban. The irony of proudly displaying "This bar is carbon negative" in a space whose parking lot has twice the square footage as the space is almost too much. But this brings up a different point: Carter road needs sidewalks ASAP. Someone is going to get hurt trying to walk/bike/scoot to that brewery from lake link trail.
December 6, 20213 yr Author Cleveland Flats peninsula finally coming back to life By Ken Prendergast / December 6, 2021 Friday was a big day for Scranton Peninsula in Cleveland's Flats. A new brewpub opened in a repurposed industrial structure next to the Cuyahoga River. City Planning Commission gave conditional approval to plans for a new neighborhood that would add more than 300 housing units to the city's riverfront. And the commission approved new zoning for a large area of the Flats to support additional development. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/06/cleveland-flats-peninsula-finally-coming-back-to-life/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 20213 yr Took this last nite while on Columbus Road. I think it definitely adds some energy to the peninsula.
December 7, 20213 yr I hope Silver Hills look better in real life than they do in those mockups. All I see are buildings with drab Grey cladding with red brick, uninspiring architecture.
December 7, 20213 yr its just ok, which in the grand scheme of things is fine. the big news to get excited about here is that its 300 nice, new build apts worth of bringing people back into the city -- that is not a small thing.
December 7, 20213 yr I'm okay with the design but the changes from the previous design are so subtle, it's like playing a "spot the differences between the two pictures" game.
December 7, 20213 yr I like it! Reminds me of the Quarter at 25th and Detroit, which I think is really nice. It could still go either way based on the detailing and what all the materials end up being, but I think its a good start.
December 18, 20213 yr Author Sorry to drop a bomb in the middle of the night. Been working on this all evening since I won't be in front of my desktop much tomorrow. And thanks again @tykaps! Great Lakes Brewing Co. to start Scranton Peninsula work By Ken Prendergast / December 18, 2021 Great Lakes Brewing Co. (GLBC) has asked the city of Cleveland for permission to begin site preparation work prior to the expansion of brewing facilities on to Scranton Peninsula near downtown. A permit application submitted yesterday doesn’t reveal when the actual expansion work would begin, saying instead that the work would prepare for “future use” of the Flats site. However, the permit request hints structural construction for the expansion could begin in about six months. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/18/great-lakes-brewing-co-to-start-scranton-peninsula-work/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 18, 20213 yr Sorry to drop a bomb in the middle of the night. Been working on this all evening since I won't be in front of my desktop much tomorrow. And thanks again [mention=3375]tykaps[/mention]! Great Lakes Brewing Co. to start Scranton Peninsula work By Ken Prendergast / December 18, 2021 Great Lakes Brewing Co. (GLBC) has asked the city of Cleveland for permission to begin site preparation work prior to the expansion of brewing facilities on to Scranton Peninsula near downtown. A permit application submitted yesterday doesn’t reveal when the actual expansion work would begin, saying instead that the work would prepare for “future use” of the Flats site. However, the permit request hints structural construction for the expansion could begin in about six months. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/18/great-lakes-brewing-co-to-start-scranton-peninsula-work/ Love it. Turning into a Brewers IslandSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
January 3, 20223 yr Author NRP Group taking fresh look at Scranton Peninsula By Ken Prendergast / January 3, 2022 When NRP Group abandoned its plans in September 2020 to develop several hundred residences on Scranton Peninsula, the pandemic had just started and so had the economic uncertainty. Since there wasn’t much happening in this part of the Flats, it apparently wasn’t a good time for the Cleveland-based apartment developer to set out as a pioneer in a nearly empty landscape. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/01/03/nrp-group-taking-fresh-look-at-scranton-peninsula/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 4, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: NRP Group taking fresh look at Scranton Peninsula By Ken Prendergast / January 3, 2022 When NRP Group abandoned its plans in September 2020 to develop several hundred residences on Scranton Peninsula, the pandemic had just started and so had the economic uncertainty. Since there wasn’t much happening in this part of the Flats, it apparently wasn’t a good time for the Cleveland-based apartment developer to set out as a pioneer in a nearly empty landscape. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/01/03/nrp-group-taking-fresh-look-at-scranton-peninsula/ I wish Cleveland would adopt what Vancouver has done, buildings essentially hide the lots by wrapping around them.
January 4, 20223 yr With all of this development that is likely to happen on the peninsula in the next few years, I wonder if GCRTA would consider some kind of bus loop to traverse the area, considering there isn't really any bus service down there. I made a hypothetical loop, similar to how the B-Line Trolley operates, and the map I made is in the link below. Not sure about frequency, but I made the turnaround points at the West 25th Red Line Station and Merwin's Wharf. Thoughts are appreciated. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1aGk2VltqrnjywiabBGzoRhPptqHL6-Gj&usp=sharing
January 4, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, jofrko14 said: With all of this development that is likely to happen on the peninsula in the next few years, I wonder if GCRTA would consider some kind of bus loop to traverse the area, considering there isn't really any bus service down there. I made a hypothetical loop, similar to how the B-Line Trolley operates, and the map I made is in the link below. Not sure about frequency, but I made the turnaround points at the West 25th Red Line Station and Merwin's Wharf. Thoughts are appreciated. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1aGk2VltqrnjywiabBGzoRhPptqHL6-Gj&usp=sharing FWIW I believe the rail lines running through the peninsula are abandoned if we wanted to get really wild and extend a rapid line through.
February 1, 20223 yr I don't know if this is news or nothing at all. The latest Silverhills project entry last week is "initial plan submissions", which you usually see once at the start of a project. I wonder if this went back to the drawing board or just a clerical error. Or maybe they are re-working the project to better tie in with Great Lakes, as KJP wrote about above. https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3902&CASE=DF 2021-027 Date: January 27, 2022 Committee: Staff Action Type: Initial Plan Submission Conditions/Notes:
February 1, 20223 yr Author And that's not all... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 20223 yr NRP Group new renders look like a SUBSTANTIAL improvement. Edited February 2, 20223 yr by LlamaLawyer
February 2, 20223 yr I see the vision of Thunderbird has now fully shifted from "dense, intentional city neighborhood, designed for the next 100 years with authentic intimate spaces, timeless but aspirational architecture, intriguing pedestrian corridors and a unique waterfront featuring a multimodal riverside trail and public park" to "campus housing style apartments for people who drive expensive cars". It sure is hard being a dreamer.
February 2, 20223 yr 26 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: NRP Group new renders look like a SUBSTANTIAL improvement. I don't believe these are new renderings. These same ones have been on the marketing for Thunderbird on CBRE and Loopnet since NRP gave up on the site. I'm definitely curious to see if these will remain the plan or if NRP is considering changing something.
February 2, 20223 yr Author I'll have an article with the plans in them. But @LlamaLawyer is correct that they aren't too different than what NRP Group had presented in 2020, otherwise it couldn't be up for final approval this week. But there are some refinements in them. You can see one of them in one of the images that LL posted -- a shipping container that would be used as a retail/cafe space. They're also going to show some options for putting the townhouses at a different location. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 20223 yr 55 minutes ago, daplemmo said: I see the vision of Thunderbird has now fully shifted from "dense, intentional city neighborhood, designed for the next 100 years with authentic intimate spaces, timeless but aspirational architecture, intriguing pedestrian corridors and a unique waterfront featuring a multimodal riverside trail and public park" to "campus housing style apartments for people who drive expensive cars". It sure is hard being a dreamer. you are absolutely right. It’s a reflection of bottom line developers that can’t imagine anything other than what they’ve done previously. Seems like a real missed opportunity in the making.
February 2, 20223 yr 44 minutes ago, tykaps said: I don't believe these are new renderings. These same ones have been on the marketing for Thunderbird on CBRE and Loopnet since NRP gave up on the site. I'm definitely curious to see if these will remain the plan or if NRP is considering changing something. My mistake then. New (to me) renders! Lol.
February 2, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, daplemmo said: I see the vision of Thunderbird has now fully shifted from "dense, intentional city neighborhood, designed for the next 100 years with authentic intimate spaces, timeless but aspirational architecture, intriguing pedestrian corridors and a unique waterfront featuring a multimodal riverside trail and public park" to "campus housing style apartments for people who drive expensive cars". It sure is hard being a dreamer. In 50 years when the Great Lakes are the fastest growing region in the country and Cleveland's population is 1.4 million because of all the climate refugees, then we can demolish these in order to make super dense housing for people who don't need cars because self driving electric Uber cars are a primary means of transportation. But until then, I'm just glad that a barren wasteland spitting distance from downtown is getting filled in with people and things.
February 2, 20223 yr 19 minutes ago, w28th said: you are absolutely right. It’s a reflection of bottom line developers that can’t imagine anything other than what they’ve done previously. Seems like a real missed opportunity in the making. Not a popular opinion but yep, these are The Edison pt 2 or mariners watch pt 2. Llama has a point that something is better than nothing but meh, it's not like it WON'T be developed at this point. If block clubs can block a beautiful apartment bldg and demand worse, then idk why it's so hard to demand better for such a public place. But don't mind me I'm in a bah humbug mood today haha.
February 2, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, daplemmo said: I see the vision of Thunderbird has now fully shifted from "dense, intentional city neighborhood, designed for the next 100 years with authentic intimate spaces, timeless but aspirational architecture, intriguing pedestrian corridors and a unique waterfront featuring a multimodal riverside trail and public park" to "campus housing style apartments for people who drive expensive cars". It sure is hard being a dreamer. I agree completely with your post except the last point. Since it is an NRP development I don't think there will be many expensive cars. Just cars. Edited February 2, 20223 yr by Htsguy
February 2, 20223 yr I'm with LL on this. I thought these renderings were the improved changes. I did not like the original plan and thought these were new and improved. I too missed that they have been "out" there already. So in the grand scheme of things IMO these are better although that IS subjective. Better than before...sure. But daplemmo makes some great points. That is if we are expecting a peninsula to look like an old European neighborhood with little streets, outdoor cafes and pocket parks, well we were never going to get that. And sure if you travel around this country there are plenty of really cool, intimate designs that are brand new. It can be done but maybe those places start with higher standards or more educated users or maybe they just have more money. I've complained on this forum about what I see as poor design in the past. And not just an individual building but also poorly designed developments as they relate to each other. Poor context. A prime example is Wolstein's original design for the Flats East Bank was great. Go back and check them out. Unfortunately what we got is pretty lame although I do like the building with the Flats East Bank sign. The Aloft building is weak and the Kinect building is even worse. On top of poorly designed buildings the biggest mistake was placing them in a parallel fashion whereas the original plan showed a little neighborhood with non-linear streets and buildings set at different angles. You know, like it grew organically instead of a suburban office complex. But hey, in many cases I guess that's what we have to expect here. We have had some success like Intro and others. So it is being done here. But not as often as I want. The most frustrating thing for me is we have a golden opportunity with those peninsulas in the Flats. Nature has given us a unique geographical feature with that curving river and land. If it was developed properly it could be another Cleveland calling card. But I've given up on the best. I'm at the point where I'm happy we ARE getting development that in some cases is great, in most cases ok. Considering how far we have come when we were bottoming out I guess in this town we have to learn to walk before we can run.
February 2, 20223 yr I don't have any issue with the aesthetics, but the layout of the buildings is just awful, and awfully suburban. Not a fan of the U's at all. I'm disappointed that hasn't changed any for this go around.
February 2, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, cadmen said: I'm with LL on this. I thought these renderings were the improved changes. I did not like the original plan and thought these were new and improved. I too missed that they have been "out" there already. So in the grand scheme of things IMO these are better although that IS subjective. Better than before...sure. But daplemmo makes some great points. That is if we are expecting a peninsula to look like an old European neighborhood with little streets, outdoor cafes and pocket parks, well we were never going to get that. And sure if you travel around this country there are plenty of really cool, intimate designs that are brand new. It can be done but maybe those places start with higher standards or more educated users or maybe they just have more money. I've complained on this forum about what I see as poor design in the past. And not just an individual building but also poorly designed developments as they relate to each other. Poor context. A prime example is Wolstein's original design for the Flats East Bank was great. Go back and check them out. Unfortunately what we got is pretty lame although I do like the building with the Flats East Bank sign. The Aloft building is weak and the Kinect building is even worse. On top of poorly designed buildings the biggest mistake was placing them in a parallel fashion whereas the original plan showed a little neighborhood with non-linear streets and buildings set at different angles. You know, like it grew organically instead of a suburban office complex. But hey, in many cases I guess that's what we have to expect here. We have had some success like Intro and others. So it is being done here. But not as often as I want. The most frustrating thing for me is we have a golden opportunity with those peninsulas in the Flats. Nature has given us a unique geographical feature with that curving river and land. If it was developed properly it could be another Cleveland calling card. But I've given up on the best. I'm at the point where I'm happy we ARE getting development that in some cases is great, in most cases ok. Considering how far we have come when we were bottoming out I guess in this town we have to learn to walk before we can run. Yeah that's kinda my thoughts. I had unrealistic expectations. At least Carter Rd. will have sidewalks 🤷♂️. It will be interesting to see how this impacts the intersection at Columbus and Carter. When the bridge is up its already an absolute sh*tshow. I could envision a situation where that actually improves from this development provide they design thoughtfully.
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