3 hours ago, TotalTransit said:

Fantastic news but I worry that this will end up like battery park. Dense but not walk-able and still auto dependent.

I think it will really come down to how much retail is built down there.

5 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

I think it will really come down to how much retail is built down there.

Right. But I get TotalTransits point.  Essentially if done perfect, Scranton Peninsula could be developed into a great Lifestyle Center.  That's OK, much better than what it currently is.  From perception sake of a resident, the area dosen't comingle with any other neighborhoods.  Sure geographically it's close, but a world away.

I’ve heard from someone reliable that NRP’s project will be breaking ground next month.

Edited October 5, 20222 yr by JB

NRP  was before City Council Planning and Development Committee this morning regarding a TIF for the Scranton Peninsula project.  Very nice presentation.  They said the project would not go forward without the TIF.  It passed in committee.  Imagine it will be up for passage at the next full Council meeting.

Maybe a dumb question, but given the as-of-right tax abatement, what is there left to TIF? Is it for taxes that would be payable after year 15 (or is it 10 years now for the abatement?)?

13 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

Maybe a dumb question, but given the as-of-right tax abatement, what is there left to TIF? Is it for taxes that would be payable after year 15 (or is it 10 years now for the abatement?)?

usually the tifs in Cleveland are for years 16-30 and for years 1-30 on any commercial portion of development. 

Are there more TIF requests now since that the mayor weakened the incentives using property tax?

1 hour ago, jcw92 said:

Are there more TIF requests now since that the mayor weakened the incentives using property tax?

Really cannot answer you question but there was a second TIF request on the Planning Committee's agenda this morning that also passed.  That was for the Driftwood mixed use development in Tremont.

 

 I was a bit amused during the Driftwood's presentation.  NRP's presentation was slick and dare I say a bit calculated as it was clear the presenters knew the political climate and how to tug at the heart strings of council members.  While completely irrelevant to the Scranton Peninsula project they had an introductory section that touted their Cleveland roots and the numerous affordable housing projects they have completed and are currently building in the city.  It was almost like they were apoligizing that Scranton is a market rate project.  They then touted all the pubic amenities like the towpath trial going through their property, the new street  they were building and the public plaza and "grand staircase" which was going to connect their project to that other development right on the river.  

 

After that the two youngish Driftwood developers came to the table and they had those deer in the headlights looks.  Nothing to offer but upscale housing.  One of the councilperson did come to their rescue at one point offering that Cleveland needed all types of housing from affordable to upscale market rate.

 

2 hours ago, jcw92 said:

Are there more TIF requests now since that the mayor weakened the incentives using property tax?

TIFs have been fairly standard on most larger development deals in Cleveland. I don't think the changes in tax abatement will affect this too much. 

20 minutes ago, freefourur said:

TIFs have been fairly standard on most larger development deals in Cleveland. I don't think the changes in tax abatement will affect this too much. 

 

Reminder that the county hasn't really gone out of their way to publicize it but we have a TIF Dashboard and Abatements Dashboard as part of a larger Fiscal Information Hub.

 

Not to distract from the subject at hand but it can help show some trends and when they eventually expire...

Edited October 25, 20222 yr by GISguy

27 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Reminder that the county hasn't really gone out of their way to publicize it but we have a TIF Dashboard and Abatements Dashboard as part of a larger Fiscal Information Hub.

 

Not to distract from the subject at hand but it can help show some trends and when they eventually expire...

I had no idea that this even existed. 

3 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I had no idea that this even existed. 

 

TBH it's pretty new (like, last six months new) but they haven't pushed a news release or anything so it's all organic promotion for now, enjoy!

Cross-posted in the freight railroads thread

 

 

Cleveland’s first railroad is history
By Ken Prendergast / October 26, 2022

 

On an early fall day, Sept. 30, 1847, one of the most prominent men in the fast-growing state of Ohio rolled up his sleeves and joined others in starting the construction of Cleveland’s first-ever railroad. It was a ceremonial groundbreaking not unlike those of today where dignitaries flip dirt with golden shovels to commemorate the start of some new construction project. But, in this case, Cleveland’s first village president, its first attorney and the father of the Ohio & Erie Canal had to get his hands dirty pronto or his new railroad company would lose its charter from the state — again.

 

READ MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/10/26/clevelands-first-railroad-is-history/

Excellent read Ken.

3 hours ago, KJP said:

Cross-posted in the freight railroads thread

 

 

Cleveland’s first railroad is history
By Ken Prendergast / October 26, 2022

 

On an early fall day, Sept. 30, 1847, one of the most prominent men in the fast-growing state of Ohio rolled up his sleeves and joined others in starting the construction of Cleveland’s first-ever railroad. It was a ceremonial groundbreaking not unlike those of today where dignitaries flip dirt with golden shovels to commemorate the start of some new construction project. But, in this case, Cleveland’s first village president, its first attorney and the father of the Ohio & Erie Canal had to get his hands dirty pronto or his new railroad company would lose its charter from the state — again.

 

READ MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/10/26/clevelands-first-railroad-is-history/

 

Great article!

E 4th, as a gem as it is, we need another street like it. A long walking area, not a road. However we're setting up Scranton Peninsula, I think we're setting it up for walkability success. and I would like the council to recognize that we need some safe dine-in entertainment areas, that many tourists and locals would love to walk around. Look at North Austin at the Domain. There's lots of dining and shopping opportunities similar to Crocker Park, but the problem is where is the nightlife? Who goes downtown without a few brewskies in the system... Anyhow, Cleveland nightlife is great and all but there's no real safe place to do it other than E 4th without walking into traffic. This is where I think Scranton Peninsula can excel granted the plan is there.

^just stay on the sidewalk.

FYI they were moving dirt this morning at 'Thunderbird' or whatever we're calling it. Could hear the earth moving and concrete breaking going on from the L-C bridge.

There are two locations where they are doing site prep -- the Great Lakes Brewing Co. site and the Silverhills site.

45 minutes ago, KJP said:

There are two locations where they are doing site prep -- the Great Lakes Brewing Co. site and the Silverhills site.

 

I got a flat on my bike at lunch otherwise I'd grab some pics from the bridge/site...maybe tomorrow! haha

 

In the meantime here's a couple 'before' pics from biking around the site last year: 

 

 

Picture of the earthwork mentioned upthread (Silverhills / Thunderbird / GLBC?)

 

Edited November 3, 20222 yr by ASP1984

I think it's the Great Lakes Brewing portion.

From yesterday.

 

I know one of the project managers at NRP. She is currently leading the affordable housing development on Broadway then was supposed to shift over to their project on Scranton Peninsula in February. She told me about a month ago they were planning for a Spring groundbreaking. Then just last night she told me they are struggling with financing and need to come up with $15 mil. She said they will find the money but no way does it break ground by the beginning of Spring. 

Silverhills is on the river-side of Carter. Great Lakes is on the hillside of Carter. NRP is north of Great Lakes. 

39 minutes ago, viscomi said:

I think it's the Great Lakes Brewing portion.

From yesterday.

 

Is this the start of the project?  I wasn't under the impression they were moving.  

31 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

I know one of the project managers at NRP. She is currently leading the affordable housing development on Broadway then was supposed to shift over to their project on Scranton Peninsula in February. She told me about a month ago they were planning for a Spring groundbreaking. Then just last night she told me they are struggling with financing and need to come up with $15 mil. She said they will find the money but no way does it break ground by the beginning of Spring. 

I watched their extensive TIF presentation before City Council last week and they gave no indication of such a financing gap which I believe would have been important for Council to know.  Does not give me the warm and fuzzies.

Edited November 3, 20222 yr by Htsguy

1 hour ago, Jenny said:

Is this the start of the project?  I wasn't under the impression they were moving.  

 

Great Lakes Brewing Company has permits only to level the land for site prep. Details about the permit and how the land will be leveled are here... 

 

https://neo-trans.blog/2021/12/18/great-lakes-brewing-co-to-start-scranton-peninsula-work/

4 hours ago, viscomi said:

I think it's the Great Lakes Brewing portion.

From yesterday.

 

This photo is really instructive - When you think about it, Cleveland has more available land immediately adjacent to its downtown for development than most of its competitors.  It’s a commentary on the history of the city and it’s industrial heritage - but also an incredible opportunity, to grow the population and reshape the city’s future 

2 hours ago, CleveFan said:

This photo is really instructive - When you think about it, Cleveland has more available land immediately adjacent to its downtown for development than most of its competitors.  It’s a commentary on the history of the city and it’s industrial heritage - but also an incredible opportunity, to grow the population and reshape the city’s future 

 

Agree. Such an incredible opportunity that it really amplifies the absolute need to do this all in the best way possible. 

3 hours ago, CleveFan said:

This photo is really instructive - When you think about it, Cleveland has more available land immediately adjacent to its downtown for development than most of its competitors.  It’s a commentary on the history of the city and it’s industrial heritage - but also an incredible opportunity, to grow the population and reshape the city’s future 

 

Unfortunately, because of that industrial heritage, that land is far from clean. It's also in the hands of owners who are more interested in collecting rent from people storing trucks or piles of sand on them than selling them to investors seeking to create a dynamic new civic vision. And yes, I'm referring to Scranton-Averell Inc. The amount of land they own, especially underutilized land, is mind blowing. And they've owned it since the mid-1800s. But the arthritic shareholders of S-A are more interested in getting their ongoing distributions from rents collected than from a big, one-shot offer to buy their properties.

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Unfortunately, because of that industrial heritage, that land is far from clean. It's also in the hands of owners who are more interested in collecting rent from people storing trucks or piles of sand on them than selling them to investors seeking to create a dynamic new civic vision. And yes, I'm referring to Scranton-Averell Inc. The amount of land they own, especially underutilized land, is mind blowing. And they've owned it since the mid-1800s. But the arthritic shareholders of S-A are more interested in getting their ongoing distributions from rents collected than from a big, one-shot offer to buy their properties.

Time for the city to grow up and use eminent domain. 

37 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Unfortunately, because of that industrial heritage, that land is far from clean. It's also in the hands of owners who are more interested in collecting rent from people storing trucks or piles of sand on them than selling them to investors seeking to create a dynamic new civic vision. And yes, I'm referring to Scranton-Averell Inc. The amount of land they own, especially underutilized land, is mind blowing. And they've owned it since the mid-1800s. But the arthritic shareholders of S-A are more interested in getting their ongoing distributions from rents collected than from a big, one-shot offer to buy their properties.

Land value tax. Would also solve the parking crater problem. 

^What is "land value tax"? Isn't the land already taxed? Do you mean --tax it at what is should be worth vs what it actually is worth? How would that be calculated?

6 hours ago, jcw92 said:

^What is "land value tax"? Isn't the land already taxed? Do you mean --tax it at what is should be worth vs what it actually is worth? How would that be calculated?

Property taxes are based on the value of the land and the buildings on it. Tax assessments performed by the county determine those values. 
 

A land value tax (LVT) ONLY taxes the land and generally at a much higher rate. This discourages speculative ownership of property and underutilization of property (parking lots). It encourages development and density, meaning government investments in transit and other services are more worthwhile. 
 

My understanding is that Ohio law currently doesn’t enable the separation of taxing land from property, but I’m not sure on those tax laws. It seems that would undermine local rule, but of course Ohio does that all the time. 
 

Here’s an overview:

 

 

^ @Boomerang_Brianthank you---your explanation and the video were very clear, thanks. Yes, it definitely makes sense to implement!

Fresh hydroseed on the Scranton site, including the portion below the road right next to the river (taken from the RTA)

 

 

Great Lakes Brewing site and Silverhills, still in the “moving dirt around” phase.

 

Silverhills

 

Great Lakes Brewing 

NRP Closes on Scranton Peninsula. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/nrp-group-closes-75-acre-land-deal-clevelands-scranton-peninsula

NRP Closes on Scranton Peninsula. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/nrp-group-closes-75-acre-land-deal-clevelands-scranton-peninsula

Hate and love to see it, prime location wasted on the most mediocre run of the mill plan

2 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Hate and love to see it, prime location wasted on the most mediocre run of the mill plan

Love seeing it developed, hate seeing how it's developed 

If I only had a billion dollars--I would cut a bunch of canals through the Scranton peninsula and make it into our own little Amsterdam.....

7 hours ago, Cleburger said:

If I only had a billion dollars--I would cut a bunch of canals through the Scranton peninsula and make it into our own little Amsterdam.....

see, that won’t work because all of the homeless in the city will bathe in the canals. The river is also far too polluted and dirty for tourists to enjoy it. Might as well continue to ignore it and use it as the trash dump it is

 

- every cleveland.com commenter

Was probably commented on already, but is there is dumber name than "Silverhills" for a project build in an area literally called "the Flats"?  

That name is rather lame.

I think the name is kind of clever.  The Flats were once home to the mighty "Silver Mountains" of our industrial glory.  The mountains are no longer there, but there are still dozens of "Silver Hills" along the Cuyahoga River.  What I haven't seen in the Flats, though, are any Thunderbirds.

Silver Hills is the name of the developer, it's not specific to the flats development. They have done a few throughout the country under the "Silver Hills" name. 

19 minutes ago, enginerd12 said:

Silver Hills is the name of the developer, it's not specific to the flats development. They have done a few throughout the country under the "Silver Hills" name. 

Bummer.  iIthought it was a creative take on Cleveland history.  Way to burst my bubble :) 

2 hours ago, Dino said:

 What I haven't seen in the Flats, though, are any Thunderbirds.

They will be here for the air show.  😃

Great article from Michelle on everything happening on the peninsula:

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/clevelands-scranton-peninsula-coming-life-after-decades-inactivity

 

Exciting to see things happening but man do those Scranton-Averell people SUCK:

 

As construction fences rise along Carter, it's still unclear what the neighboring land, dotted with warehouses and historic industrial buildings, will become. A representative for Scranton-Averell, the longtime owner of properties to the east and south, did not respond to an interview request.

"We have tried everything to bring them into the development plan, and they have been resistant," Geis said, shrugging.

Wow didn't realize the actual number of units in total. 304 units in the Silverhills development and across the street at the NRP one it's 316. We could see this add close to 1,000 people to the population downtown.

 

Actually, is the Scranton Peninsula considered "downtown"? I'm just thinking about that goal of having 30k people living in downtown Cleveland. Not sure where the boundaries are considered for the downtown cleveland alliance studies