I’m sure Skylight know what they’re doing, but that BrewDog is as loud AF inside and seems to do a decent lunch/ afternoon trade. I hope they’ve got some good soundproofing. 

 

Eagle Ave lift bridge demo on the agenda for the Planning Commission this Friday FYI

 

Pic from my run the other day. 

 

On 10/31/2023 at 6:56 AM, dwolfi01 said:

Eagle Ave lift bridge demo on the agenda for the Planning Commission this Friday FYI

 

Unfortunately,The Planning Commission approved demolition on Friday.  I did appreciate them asking why and whom allowed the bridge to go into such disrepair prior to approval.  

46 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said:

Pic from my run the other day. 

 

It actually looks more substantial than I thought it would.  Is the development closer too the river (is it called Silverhills?) progressing to any extent.  I cannot tell from the pic if they are at least doing some excavating work.

3 hours ago, dwolfi01 said:

Pic from my run the other day. 

 

Haven’t taken a photos but the top of this building is visible from Detroit w25 intersection and w Huron. It’s cool seeing  something new pop out from down there 

Edited November 6, 20231 yr by BoomerangCleRes

Cleveland City Council Okays Demolition of Eagle Avenue Bridge

By Mark Oprea on Mon, Nov 13, 2023 

 

As to further the merging of the Scranton Peninsula into a slow-growing Downtown neighborhood, City Council approved the demolition of the Eagle Avenue Bridge, which has been out of use for the past two decades.

 

Linking Scranton Peninsula with the West Bank of the Flats since 1931, the Eagle was the oldest operating lift bridge in the city at one point. Its razing, which City Hall urged was necessary for safety concerns, is scheduled to take place next summer.

 

... 

 

A portion of the bridge, probably the rusted bases of its vertical legs, would be kept for an "interpretative park," DeRosa suggested, which would be built into the cost of the demolition. A bid for such park design would go out in December.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/news/cleveland-city-council-okays-demolition-of-eagle-avenue-bridge-43110928

I fail to see how dismantling a bridge that connects downtown with the peninsula furthers the connection between the two unless there are plans for a new bridge - which l have yet to read about.

53 minutes ago, cadmen said:

I fail to see how dismantling a bridge that connects downtown with the peninsula furthers the connection between the two unless there are plans for a new bridge - which l have yet to read about.

Connection by disconnection? Kinda like addition by subtraction!

Lots of questionable statements in that article, tbh.

 

"Its razing will help usher in a new residential era for Scranton Peninsula".. and "the ridding of an industrial blemish is bound to make the welcoming of the Silverhills at Thunderbird apartment complex more suited to luxury renters ".. 

 

huh? those industrial "blemishes" are half the appeal of the area imo.

I know it's an unpopular opinion here but I don't always agree with the "preserve everything at all costs" mentality some people have. Maybe it is because I didn't grow up here so I don't have the nostalgia of industrial Cleveland but I think getting rid of some out-of-use, derelict, tokens of the past is good. Preserving history doesn't mean keep every abandoned building/bridge ever built. I always love seeing old buildings repurposed but if a building is beyond reasonable repair, like this bridge apparently is, then I think it makes sense to remove it. 

^ Sure it can be said that beauty is in the eye of beholder but count me in the group that thinks those old out of date bridges are in fact beautiful in a number of ways. Historic and sculpted works of mechanical art are just two of them. 

2 hours ago, Jax said:

Lots of questionable statements in that article, tbh.

 

"Its razing will help usher in a new residential era for Scranton Peninsula".. and "the ridding of an industrial blemish is bound to make the welcoming of the Silverhills at Thunderbird apartment complex more suited to luxury renters ".. 

 

huh? those industrial "blemishes" are half the appeal of the area imo.

 

Sounds like they're desirous of a suburban enclave  vs. fitting in with their historic surroundings. 

On 11/13/2023 at 7:37 PM, Luke_S said:

Cleveland City Council Okays Demolition of Eagle Avenue Bridge

By Mark Oprea on Mon, Nov 13, 2023 

 

As to further the merging of the Scranton Peninsula into a slow-growing Downtown neighborhood, City Council approved the demolition of the Eagle Avenue Bridge, which has been out of use for the past two decades.

 

Linking Scranton Peninsula with the West Bank of the Flats since 1931, the Eagle was the oldest operating lift bridge in the city at one point. Its razing, which City Hall urged was necessary for safety concerns, is scheduled to take place next summer.

 

... 

 

A portion of the bridge, probably the rusted bases of its vertical legs, would be kept for an "interpretative park," DeRosa suggested, which would be built into the cost of the demolition. A bid for such park design would go out in December.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/news/cleveland-city-council-okays-demolition-of-eagle-avenue-bridge-43110928

I feel like they want the park to prevent future discussion of a new bridge. City/County - Can't put a new bridge there since there is a park. Sorry guys.

These guys can't see the benefit of connecting multiple up and coming areas.

Cross posted from Sherwin Williams thread.

37 minutes ago, Mogradal said:

I feel like they want the park to prevent future discussion of a new bridge. City/County - Can't put a new bridge there since there is a park. Sorry guys.

These guys can't see the benefit of connecting multiple up and coming areas.

 

Cul-de-sac mentality. 

I will most definitely be missing this bridge, I think it's iconic and part of the grand finale of the towpath reaching it's northern terminus. 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 20231 yr by Pleco

The scale of this project is impressive even just from the window of the Red Line

On 11/15/2023 at 11:16 AM, dwolfi01 said:

I know it's an unpopular opinion here but I don't always agree with the "preserve everything at all costs" mentality some people have. Maybe it is because I didn't grow up here so I don't have the nostalgia of industrial Cleveland but I think getting rid of some out-of-use, derelict, tokens of the past is good. Preserving history doesn't mean keep every abandoned building/bridge ever built. I always love seeing old buildings repurposed but if a building is beyond reasonable repair, like this bridge apparently is, then I think it makes sense to remove it. 

My thought is that keeping something for sentimental value isn’t the best approach, but in the case of this bridge destroying it without a viable replacement has nothing to do with sentimentality. It is simply short sighted.

 

It doesn’t take a genius to see that Scranton and the Bedrock/former Sherwin Williams area  has never had the traffic that it will surely have as per the current and upcoming developments.

 

Thus, much sooner rather than later that traffic will overflow and cause headaches that this bridge (and the bridge that used to go down into the Tower City underground parking from Huron Rd.) would definitely and obviously help alleviate.

 

(Note: if traffic overflow wasn’t already some sort of a serious issue, you wouldn’t see all the closures of West Superior Rd. and Old River Road) that you see at the peak of summer. Consider that this happens when traffic is mostly in one direction —> Flats East Bank. Now think what happens when it becomes bi-directional as Scranton keeps growing.)

11 hours ago, ragarcia said:

Thus, much sooner rather than later that traffic will overflow and cause headaches that this bridge (and the bridge that used to go down into the Tower City underground parking from Huron Rd.) would definitely and obviously help alleviate.

 

It was my understanding that this bridge is beyond repair correct? Hasn't it been out of service for decades or something? So I'm not sure how much that could help with traffic since any viable traffic help would be replacing the bridge anyway so this is just getting step 1 out of the way early.

 

Now if the bridge could be repaired and restored to working condition that is another issue. I just thought that wasn't an option unfortunately. 

To me this should be an instigator of thoughts on how to preserve the non-operable bridges that remain. They should essentially be considered pieces of sculpture that require maintenance and restoration. If not, on a long enough timeline this will eventually happen to all the non-operable bridges that make The Flats such a unique landscape.

Edited December 11, 20231 yr by w28th

1 hour ago, w28th said:

To me this should be an instigator of thoughts on how to preserve the non-operable bridges that remain. They should essentially be considered pieces of sculpture that require maintenance and restoration. If not, on a long enough timeline this will eventually happen to all the non-operable bridges that make The Flats such a unique landscape.

Didn’t the city just “find” an extra $56 million to throw around? I get the feeling that a certain someone wants it removed, and it doesn’t matter what condition it’s in.

On 11/15/2023 at 11:16 AM, dwolfi01 said:

I know it's an unpopular opinion here but I don't always agree with the "preserve everything at all costs" mentality some people have. Maybe it is because I didn't grow up here so I don't have the nostalgia of industrial Cleveland but I think getting rid of some out-of-use, derelict, tokens of the past is good. Preserving history doesn't mean keep every abandoned building/bridge ever built. I always love seeing old buildings repurposed but if a building is beyond reasonable repair, like this bridge apparently is, then I think it makes sense to remove it. 

This poster is so right.  Some of the stuff people want to preserve is just silly.  You have to let some stuff go for the better.  

5 hours ago, marty15 said:

Didn’t the city just “find” an extra $56 million to throw around? I get the feeling that a certain someone wants it removed, and it doesn’t matter what condition it’s in.

We had a perfectly fine building in downtown Columbus, one of our last warehouses, torn down because of "structural issues." Well, turns out the owner wanted it to come down years ago, and just sat on it. I've spoken with numerous engineering firms that work specifically within historic preservation/restoration and said there is nothing that isn't past the point of saving. It's definitely someone pulling the strings. Sure, on a proforma its cheaper to build new, but historical and significance are something that should be accounted for in the CBA much higher than they are. Architects need to also get off of their laurels drawing cube coordinations and start speaking up and educating about the history of these old structures. Engineers too, as these are surly engineering marvels! If they want a compromise, just take down the center part, but at least keep the towers in place and make sure to include a public park (as stated above) with plenty of information (and maybe an interactive element or two like the Black Music Walk of Fame in Cincy).

I appreciate both sides of this debate, but while I'm personally a huge fan of adaptive reUSE, I find it hard to justify spending a bunch of money to restabilize an unsafe structure so that it can be used as a fancy statue or work of modern art. We're talking about a bridge, it was designed to be functional. I wish it had been maintained with that in mind, but I don't think it's worth substantial investment to maintain something entirely non-functional. This structure is visible sagging, the problem is the foundation, I'm sure it could still technically be saved, but I'm also sure the costs would be absolutely ridiculous. It isn't worth it. Tear it down, consider returning the others to a functional state and maintaining them in working order as pedestrian bridges. If we let them get to the state of this one they'll have to come down too, so how about we don't let them get to that point? 

 

I'll be sad to see this bridge go. I enjoy the aesthetic. 

Here's my thought on historic preservation...

 

 

it would make the most sense to take it apart and store it for now until it can go in a park. along with the hullets. i dont think that would cost much money to do as it doesnt really have to be fully taken apart. to just callously knock it down and wreck it seems a waste. or as mentioned, bust it up, but leave up a few base supports or whatever they were referring to.

The King is dead…long live the King!

On 12/11/2023 at 11:00 AM, dwolfi01 said:

 

It was my understanding that this bridge is beyond repair correct? Hasn't it been out of service for decades or something? So I'm not sure how much that could help with traffic since any viable traffic help would be replacing the bridge anyway so this is just getting step 1 out of the way early.

 

Now if the bridge could be repaired and restored to working condition that is another issue. I just thought that wasn't an option unfortunately. 

This bridge is not beyond repair. The costs for repairs are well known and were taken into account as part of the decision.

 

Also, let’s put it this way, if Dan Gilbert said that the development was contingent upon repairing and putting back in use that bridge, it would be repaired and put back in use.

 

im not advocating for the repair of the bridge, but I do feel that not having steps 2, 3, 4, 5, etcetera (using your “steps” concept) completely mapped out is both short sighted and a lack of understanding of the upcoming needs.

How about removing  the bridge section then refurbish and paint the towers. And of course light them up you would see them for miles.

1 hour ago, freethink said:

How about removing  the bridge section then refurbish and paint the towers. And of course light them up you would see them for miles.

Exactly!

13 hours ago, mrnyc said:

it would make the most sense to take it apart and store it for now until it can go in a park. along with the hullets. i dont think that would cost much money to do as it doesnt really have to be fully taken apart. to just callously knock it down and wreck it seems a waste. or as mentioned, bust it up, but leave up a few base supports or whatever they were referring to.

 

Right? Not sure about demo in place, but preserving key members is worth more than money: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/see-dismantled-huletts-on-whiskey-island-industrial-history-covered-in-rust-greenery.html 

Apologies for the poor quality nighttime cell phone pictures, but there hasn't been any photos in this thread for over two months, and I was surprised how substantial these are starting to look from the other side of the river. 

 

 

Any progress on the building along the river?  Next to Brewdog.  I understand they had some unforseen soil conditions when that started.  From a structural standpoint, not environmental.

54 minutes ago, Jenny said:

Any progress on the building along the river?  Next to Brewdog.  I understand they had some unforseen soil conditions when that started.  From a structural standpoint, not environmental.

 

I'm not a Civ E so my concerns were more environmental than structural, but that was always a concern.   There's reasons that this project didn't happen long ago.

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

I'm not a Civ E so my concerns were more environmental than structural, but that was always a concern.   There's reasons that this project didn't happen long ago.

Soil and utilities are probably the biggest unknowns on a project. You just never know for sure until you start to dig...

Just now, columbus17 said:

Soil and utilities are probably the biggest unknowns on a project. You just never know for sure until you start to dig...

 

Especially in an area with two centuries of history, much of which wasn't adequately documented.

13 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Especially in an area with two centuries of history, much of which wasn't adequately documented.

 

And happened in an era where disposal activities strongly frowned upon today were condoned and accepted.

 

I've felt from the start they may have been being overly optimistic about soil conditions.

Edited January 23, 20241 yr by E Rocc

24 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

And happened in an era where disposal activities strongly frowned upon today were condoned and accepted.

 

I've felt from the start they may have been being overly optimistic about soil conditions.

Hasn’t seemed to hamper the NRP project, which is only feet away. I can’t believe how fast that is going up. Also, as indicated in some pictures above, the riverfront project seems to have some walls up. At least that’s what it looks like to me.

Yeah I could have swore they started going vertical (at least foundation walls being built) for that project across the street on the river side. I can try to snap a pic on my next run by there to confirm!

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

Hasn’t seemed to hamper the NRP project, which is only feet away. I can’t believe how fast that is going up. Also, as indicated in some pictures above, the riverfront project seems to have some walls up. At least that’s what it looks like to me.

 

Soil is a strange thing, especially when previous digging is involved.  

Silverhills' riverfront development is being built where the Republic/Upson ore and coal dock was. Wouldn't that be a more suitable development site (contaminants-wise) compared to the NRP property where chrome (chromium) was added to the bolts and nuts formed there?

40 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said:

Yeah I could have swore they started going vertical (at least foundation walls being built) for that project across the street on the river side. I can try to snap a pic on my next run by there to confirm!

 

They're definitely "vertical" - a decent amount of the basement/foundation walls on BrewDog-side seems to be up, but it's misleading because of the CL of Carter Rd is pretty sloped so it seems like they are still underground.

Edited January 23, 20241 yr by Geowizical

6 hours ago, Jenny said:

Any progress on the building along the river?  Next to Brewdog.  I understand they had some unforseen soil conditions when that started.  From a structural standpoint, not environmental.

Drove by it last week. A significant portion of the foundation and footings have been poured. 

The scale of this development plays so much larger in real life.

I like the color. Too bad that's not the outer coat.

3 hours ago, marty15 said:

The scale of this development plays so much larger in real life.

 

Seriously driving or walking by you really get an appreciation of how large this is. Can't wait for this and the one acoss the street to be done. Would add some much needed density to a long barren area.

 

Brewdog must be happy it's getting 1,000 customers within a 5 minute walk of them 😆

It's actually in Duck Island, but I've often thought of this housing development being on Scranton Peninsula.....

 

 

Biking home the other night: