Quick pic from the train just now

 

 

Some from this evening. 

 

One day it was nothing, the next an actual neighborhood.

 

Every red line trip I crane my neck to take it all in.

As someone who has watched decades of disinvestment, some of these views are a bit surreal. Most would like to have seen better architecture but it is refreshing to see any new development. That said, too much generic architecture can become a downer real quick. For example, Denver’s recent growth has been impressive - but talk about a lot of blah residential development. 

^ very true, but unlike denver i still think by far the most important thing for the cleve is to get people back to the city at whatever price point variety architecture it takes. you cant get the fancier stuff if you dont have the density first. yes denver does seem to have the people, so its a bit of a puzzle why its so bland, unlike say minneapolis, but imo what a nice issue for them to have because for cleveland that kind of problem is down the road a ways.

 

on the positive and not to be versus, but cle is more lucky than those cities to have more built in character via its varied historic stock, physical setting and quirky layout and the like to more than balance out new bland developments for now — and also because its so much more in need of fresh move ins and any new construction for those who dont want renos, old apts and fix’r uppers.

Extremely encouraging!  Cleveland appears to be on an upward trajectory.  

From the Terminal Tower observation deck. 

 

 

I especially like that last picture.

now those are some views that will really be changing a lot in the next years to come.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/great-lakes-brewing-co-continues-weigh-options-next-production-facility

 

Not much new, but here's the Crains take on the new location options for GLBC. It mentions that parking is one of the factors that appeals to the CEO with regards to the Avon option, along with being unsure of how the Scranton Peninsula option would fit with the housing developments going on over there.

lol, 1000 people within a couple feet.. something tells me they’d fit in just fine 

Edited February 12, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes

worries? umm, yeah.

 

when i first moved to columbus i lived within easy walking distance of the massive budweiser brewery plant for a bit.

 

it was just fine as a neighbor. and i dont mean lol for the free beer tours, although yeah that was a nice perk, but that it was in no way bothersome living by it. 🤷‍♂️

Seems like residential / mixed-use would be a higher and better use for that site on Scranton.  

 

Why use downtown waterfront property for large scale production?  

27 minutes ago, RMB said:

Seems like residential / mixed-use would be a higher and better use for that site on Scranton.  

 

Why use downtown waterfront property for large scale production?  

I thought a part of it was a taproom/beer hall. I assumed it would be something similar to what Rhinegiest has in cincy 

Is there a master plan for Scranton Peninsula showing streets and parcels to view?

On 2/12/2024 at 10:42 AM, surfohio said:

 

Petition to rename GLBC as "Boomer Brewing Co." if they abandon what otherwise seems a prime opportunity. 

Like to age-discriminate much?

 

This really doe not belong.  I'm not a Baby Boomer myself, but I understand that making fun and painting an entire age group of people with one broad stroke is not acceptable.  Age is a protected class and should be treated as such in all circumstances of commerce.  I encounter this regularly in my work, and it serves no good purpose to poke at people for things that are outside their own control, like age.

Edited February 13, 20241 yr by ExPatClevGuy
Added detail behind why the comment is out of line

While I'd like to see GLBC keep its operations in Cleveland proper, I sort of agree that Scranton isn't really a good choice of location for them or the city... For one, I agree with @RMB I don't think industrial activity is the best use of half of the peninsula. We could have some great mixed use development fronting the centennial lake link trail instead, hopefully with some preserved green space. It could be really nice!

 

Also I can't be the only one who was wondering if a brewpub on Scranton would just be cannibalizing their own demand. It's so close to their Ohio City location. They would definitely run the risk of just splitting their existing customers, as opposed to growing the pie. They don't run that risk in Avon. I'm sure they will have fewer space constraints there as well. Regardless of whether or not I like it, it does seem to make more sense. 

Has GLBC even considered maybe building their production facility on Opportunity Corridor?

 

24 minutes ago, ctown60 said:

Has GLBC even considered maybe building their production facility on Opportunity Corridor?

 

That would make sense.  One thing opposing the Scranton Peninsula location, many (but not all) people find breweries unpleasant smelling although I haven't heard any complaints about GLBC's Ohio City location.. 

37 minutes ago, ctown60 said:

Has GLBC even considered maybe building their production facility on Opportunity Corridor?

 

This would be my choice.  And an east-side brewpup close to the Clinic would be huge.   Probably a bigger opportunity than next to a freeway in Avon. 

1 hour ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

Like to age-discriminate much?

 

Oh come now! I'm OLD 

Here's what GLBC might be able to pull off at Scranton:

 

Stone Brewing HQ

 

 

https://sustainablesites.org/stone-brewing-world-bistro-gardens

 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

This would be my choice.  And an east-side brewpup close to the Clinic would be huge.   Probably a bigger opportunity than next to a freeway in Avon. 

 

There's one going in the Midtown Collaboration Center.

4 hours ago, brownsfan1226 said:

with being unsure of how the Scranton Peninsula option would fit with the housing developments going on over there.

 

Breweries in America have historically been in in neighborhoods surrounded by housing.  They've historically been some pretty gorgeous buildings too!  See this link...https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/photos-a-history-of-15-cleveland-breweries-that-are-no-more/Slideshow/3683403/3684577

2 hours ago, Ethan said:

I don't think industrial activity is the best use of half of the peninsula. We could have some great mixed use development

A brewery with a brew pub would be the definition of mixed-use, wouldn't it?  Mixed use doesn't have to mean residential over retail.  At the very least it would add to the mixture of uses in the neighborhood, right?  Sam Adams, Rheingeist, and Boulevard Brewing all have urban breweries in their respective cities that are surrounded by residential.  I think this would be a perfect use for the Scranton Peninsula.

29 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

There's one going in the Midtown Collaboration Center.

I think the area can support several brewpubs. Right now the closest thing to a brewpub in University Circle is Jolly Scholar. For a true brewpub you have to go to Cleveland Heights. 

2 minutes ago, Dino said:

brewery with a brew pub would be the definition of mixed-use, wouldn't it?  Mixed use doesn't have to mean residential over retail.  At the very least it would add to the mixture of uses in the neighborhood, right?  Sam Adams, Rheingeist, and Boulevard Brewing all have urban breweries in their respective cities that are surrounded by residential.  I think this would be a perfect use for the Scranton Peninsula

Yup, it would, but my understanding of their plans was to have the brewpub by the water on the other side of Carter road, and the production facility by itself on the inland portion.

 

I also just get the impression from the Crain's article is that what they're looking for is a true production facility, one where they can really focus on efficiency and high production. It sounds like they are trying to grow. My guess is the facility they want is going to look like an industrial facility, and maybe won't be a good fit for what we'd like to see on Scranton. To the extent that they could make it work it would probably come as a result of compromising on their efficiency and production goals which won't be good for GLBC. Of course I don't know any of this, I'm just guessing.

1 minute ago, Ethan said:

Yup, it would, but my understanding of their plans was to have the brewpub by the water on the other side of Carter road, and the production facility by itself on the inland portion.

 

I also just get the impression from the Crain's article is that what they're looking for is a true production facility, one where they can really focus on efficiency and high production. It sounds like they are trying to grow. My guess is the facility they want is going to look like an industrial facility, and maybe won't be a good fit for what we'd like to see on Scranton. To the extent that they could make it work it would probably come as a result of compromising on their efficiency and production goals which won't be good for GLBC. Of course I don't know any of this, I'm just guessing.

 

Check out the Stone Brewing pics/links above. For comparison they're the #8 in capacity in USA and Great Lakes is #18.

 

Also their production facility looks as good if not better than the residential going in there. 

6 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

Check out the Stone Brewing pics/links above. For comparison they're the #8 in capacity in USA and Great Lakes is #18.

 

Also their production facility looks as good if not better than the residential going in there. 

I'm not saying it couldn't be nice. 

 

To state my point differently, I'm guessing that facility is less efficient from a pure production standpoint than one without all the bells and whistles. I could be wrong, but I'd bet I'm not. If GLBC opts for the Scranton location they'd probably be pressured into building something like that. Doing so might be in tension with their stated goal, which is to improve production.

 

Conversely, they don't need to add all the bells and whistles off the highway in a suburban environment, they can build their facility purely focused on the production, and have a brewpub on the side of they so choose. They also don't have two brewpubs within walking distance of each other fighting for the same customers. 

I know I'm dreaming here, but I think it would be so cool if GLBC could repurpose the Canal Road Power Plant

I heard this is what GLBC was looking to emulate on Scranton - https://coburnpartners.com/project/breckenridge-brewery/

 

Edit- they hired the architects because of their work on this, not necessarily the farm look 

 

Edited February 12, 20241 yr by mtnbikefan

I got a gift certificate to Sibling Revelry a couple of years ago that I haven't used because I don't want to drive to Westlake. There ain't no way I'm driving out to Avon. I would be curious to know of any market research they have that shows there are more potential customers in the far western suburbs vs. downtown. 

 

I don't work in the beer business, so maybe that space they bought is to small. But if this on-site brewpub is a big focus for them it seems nuts they'd want to be an empty field vs. all that new housing and a revived riverfront. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 20241 yr by coneflower

3 minutes ago, coneflower said:

I got a gift certificate to Sibling Revelry a couple of years ago that I haven't used because I don't want to drive to Westlake. There ain't no way I'm driving out to Avon. I would be curious to know of any market research they have that shows there are more potential customers in the far western suburbs vs. downtown. 

 

I don't work in the beer business, so maybe that space they bought is to small. But if this on-site brewpub is a big focus for them it seems nuts they'd want to be an empty field vs. all that new housing and a revived riverfront. 

 

I think their concern is different, not more. Whether or not they're calling it that, another brewpub would be functionally similar to franchising. I don't think anyone would ever recommend someone open up a new franchise location within walking distance of the old one unless you plan on closing the old one. It risks cannibalizing your existing location. 

38 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I think their concern is different, not more. Whether or not they're calling it that, another brewpub would be functionally similar to franchising. I don't think anyone would ever recommend someone open up a new franchise location within walking distance of the old one unless you plan on closing the old one. It risks cannibalizing your existing location. 

 

Fair point. To me the brew pub part isn't that important but it gets all the attention. If they move the brunt of their business to Avon, all that tax revenue from the employees and from national income goes where--Avon and Lorain County? Why can't there be a manufacturing facility in this same area near houses? It's not like they are spewing toxic chemicals or using plutonium. Personally, I'd lose a lot of brand affinity for them because I think of the city as part of their identity. If they aim to get huge nationally, perspectives like mine may not matter. Luckily we have a lot of good local options.

Edited February 12, 20241 yr by coneflower

isnt there an almost police hq site along the opportunity corridor available for new build?

 

or a beautiful old juvie hall for reno that could help kickoff a very cool mixed use type campus redevelopment? 

 

i’m sure they could swing these deals with the city/county.

 

etc, etc.

23 hours ago, Ethan said:

Also I can't be the only one who was wondering if a brewpub on Scranton would just be cannibalizing their own demand. It's so close to their Ohio City location. They would definitely run the risk of just splitting their existing customers, as opposed to growing the pie.

I was under the impression that they were moving the entire OC operation to Scranton Peninsula. Was that not he case?

19 hours ago, coneflower said:

Why can't there be a manufacturing facility in this same area near houses? 

 

Noise.   Trucks, especially early in the morning.  Probably the occasional smell.   If this is a trendy neighborhood it will draw karens.

15 minutes ago, TMart said:

I was under the impression that they were moving the entire OC operation to Scranton Peninsula. Was that not he case?

I think it was sort of ambiguous in early reporting. In any case, the most recent Crains article made it clear they are not abandoning their Ohio City presence. 

 

"Whatever happens next, there are zero plans for the Ohio City brewpub to go away. The company publicly reinforced its commitment to that neighborhood this winter."

53 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

Noise.   Trucks, especially early in the morning.  Probably the occasional smell.   If this is a trendy neighborhood it will draw karens.

 

Reasonable point. Considering all the other industry in that area, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. But I can see why the company would be nervous to get pinned in there with the risk of the neighborhood changing and not really any more space to build out in if they wanted to.

At this point, their land on the peninsula is probably worth a lot more, right?

What if they moved their regular production from OC but just kept their seasonal production there? That would keep the “Urban Brewery Charm” in the city. Seems like a win win

On 2/12/2024 at 2:53 PM, mtnbikefan said:

I heard this is what GLBC was looking to emulate on Scranton - https://coburnpartners.com/project/breckenridge-brewery/

 

Edit- they hired the architects because of their work on this, not necessarily the farm look 

 

 

i really, really dislike this firm’s colorado-y boomer style, but i have to admit it does look like they are good at it.

 

if they do something by them in avon i’d just drink my glbc brews elsewhere, thanks. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

however, despite being a suburban firm and again to be fair, it looks like they could pull off something of an urban style for scranton or opportunity corridor though.

On 2/12/2024 at 8:52 AM, brownsfan1226 said:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/great-lakes-brewing-co-continues-weigh-options-next-production-facility

 

Not much new, but here's the Crains take on the new location options for GLBC. It mentions that parking is one of the factors that appeals to the CEO with regards to the Avon option, along with being unsure of how the Scranton Peninsula option would fit with the housing developments going on over there.

 

I bet this guy sees the success Fathead (and probably Collision Bend soon) has with their brewery in the suburbs and he gets jealous.

 

TBH, they should just do both sites, Avon and Scranton. Each will attract their “local” crowds and be excellent businesses.

On 2/12/2024 at 2:53 PM, mtnbikefan said:

I heard this is what GLBC was looking to emulate on Scranton - https://coburnpartners.com/project/breckenridge-brewery/

 

Edit- they hired the architects because of their work on this, not necessarily the farm look 

 

 

 

I don’t like that Breckenridge Brewery look at all…if I had their ear, I would suggest they go the route that New Belgium took with their brewery in Asheville. Very cool building with lots of usable and programable (food trucks / music / farmer’s markets) green space and easy access to the river and trails. Surprisingly, measured and not excessive parking too.

 

https://www.newbelgium.com/visit/asheville/

 

Every time I hear GLBC in Scranton, I think/dream of this place in Asheville.

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by ragarcia

I’ve been to the New Belgium Asheville location and found it to be an uncomfortable, sun bleached area outside a reasonable walking distance from the intimate breweries in the urban fabric of the city. Wouldn’t go back.

For Great Lakes Brewing to not to be all in on embracing all this new connectivity to the lake and river seems very contrary to what they've long advocated for.  

6 minutes ago, surfohio said:

For Great Lakes Brewing to not to be all in on embracing all this new connectivity to the lake and river seems very contrary to what they've long advocated for.  

The new CEO would be the reason why. He’s not from here. Either he doesn’t get it, or he doesn’t care, or both. 

I get the feeling that there's something in the air that's making people look for an excuse to abandon their support of GLBC. Maybe it's being on the cusp of being too big to be primarily a Cleveland thing, not sure. Personally, I'm rooting for GLBC, and want them to do what's best for GLBC. I was skeptical of their Scranton plan from the start for all of the reasons I laid out above (it's too close for a new brewpub, it's an awkward place for a manufacturing). I'm guessing they have started to reevaluate for these same reasons.

 

If they want a combo brewpub and manufacturing facility, moving it far away from downtown makes a lot of sense to avoid cannibalizing the market (and let's be honest, the craft beer market is definitely saturated, there's no more room to grow it, particularly in the Ohio City area).

 

They could split off the new brewpub and manufacturing in order to keep the manufacturing element in Cleveland proper. That is plausible, but it would lose the efficiency you get from combining them. They could maybe look for an East side location for this facility in Cleveland proper, but that is easier said than done (and it still probably canabbalizes their market share a tiny bit). The parts of Cleveland where I would generally think of as a relatively safe bet to open a brewpub (Little Italy, University Circle) don't really have the open land to build a manufacturing faculty. The places that do have this open land generally require a bit more of a bet on their future development, or that you can make people come to you. I'm not saying it can't be done, and I encourage them to continue to try and find somewhere. What I am saying instead, is that I want GLBC to what's best for GLBC, and I don't think it's fair for fans from Cleveland to punish them for growing beyond their original location, or expanding out of Cleveland. If GLBC expand into Avon, I'll understand their decision and still enjoy visiting their Ohio City flagship location. 

 

This is all not to mention the possibilities that we could get on this land instead of a manufacturing facility. I'm optimistic that now that we have some minimum density on this peninsula the next developments could be much better and make for a more engaging neighborhood. 

10 hours ago, ragarcia said:

 

I bet this guy sees the success Fathead (and probably Collision Bend soon) has with their brewery in the suburbs and he gets jealous.

 

TBH, they should just do both sites, Avon and Scranton. Each will attract their “local” crowds and be excellent businesses.

I may have missed it but are there actual metrics supporting that Fatheads is doing really well? Small sample size, but everyone I know went a couple times right when it opened and then hasn't been back due to it in their opinion just being kind of average and not worth the drive. 

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by TDi

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

I get the feeling that there's something in the air that's making people look for an excuse to abandon their support of GLBC.

 

I'm just a random person, but my concern is them moving 200 jobs out of Cleveland which I assume would include moving their HQ address. Sure, Ohio City keeps the brewpub but all the jobs and tax revenue from their national sales moves to Avon. If they don't do that, then it's not that big of a deal to me.

Edited February 16, 20241 yr by coneflower

Avon also has its fair share of breweries nearby as well, so I don't think the saturation questions of moving out of Ohio City to Avon makes sense as an argument. I think the CEO doesn't get it is the main reason. I enjoy Greak Lakes beer, but others new on the market in the area are much more improved with various new offerings where Great Lakes has gotten stale at times. Maybe Great Lakes could partner with a mixed use development on their land and includes a Great Lakes tasting room with unique options in a residential movies linked to the water and trails.

11 minutes ago, coneflower said:

 

I'm just a random person, but my concern is them moving 200 jobs out of Cleveland which I assume would include moving their HQ address. Sure, Ohio City keeps the brewpub but all the jobs and tax revenue from their national sales moves to Avon. If they don't do that, then it's not that big of a deal to me.

It is a big deal!   The Bibb administration should be working the phones trying to figure out a place for them in Cleveland.   IMO the Opportunity Corridor makes the most sense and gives them an east side brewpub location near the exploding UC/Clinic populations.