31 minutes ago, Rustbelter said:

Honestly not a fan of the GLBC production facility going on Scranton Peninsula. Would rather see this get developed as a neighborhood, and a giant land consuming production facility does not seem appropriate for that. Hopefully it can at least get designed so that apartments/townhomes can be built around the perimeter of the structure so it doesn't result in some bleak utilitarian streetwalls.

 

The option is Avon.   The city can keep the taxes, or lose them.

 

If any larger company can be counted on to blend into a neighborhood, it's GLBC.

Yes , Great Lakes has earned more than a little trust in this regard.  Also, their early plans indicated that they want to do more with the complex than just a giant, bland beer factory

1 hour ago, Rustbelter said:

Honestly not a fan of the GLBC production facility going on Scranton Peninsula. Would rather see this get developed as a neighborhood, and a giant land consuming production facility does not seem appropriate for that. Hopefully it can at least get designed so that apartments/townhomes can be built around the perimeter of the structure so it doesn't result in some bleak utilitarian streetwalls.

Tap room. Maybe mutiple. It can absolutely be a huge draw for those beyond the neighbors.

Also wouldn't this new facility have to follow the newly announced zoning requirements to make it fit better into the neighborhood (or budding neighborhood)?

Today (Tuesday 9-3) Scranton Peninsula 

blue skies and the city looking great! 

So its The Collins at the Riverbend now, Ok.

collinsriverbend.com

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The option is Avon.   The city can keep the taxes, or lose them.

 

If any larger company can be counted on to blend into a neighborhood, it's GLBC.

Because there is no other vacant land in the city of Cleveland?

 

What is the appeal of this site for them? Do they need river access for any reason? They aren’t exactly near any major highways. 

CLE could practically give them land on Opportunity Corridor to build. 

3 hours ago, noname said:

Because there is no other vacant land in the city of Cleveland?

 

What is the appeal of this site for them? Do they need river access for any reason? They aren’t exactly near any major highways. 

CLE could practically give them land on Opportunity Corridor to build. 

Hopefully the appeal is that they’re at the epicenter of downtown, Ohio City, and Tremont, so they’ll build something attractive to customers, and not just a production facility.

4 minutes ago, acd said:

Hopefully the appeal is that they’re at the epicenter of downtown, Ohio City, and Tremont, so they’ll build something attractive to customers, and not just a production facility.

 

This is another example where a little thinking outside the box and vision by the corporate and political leadership would go along way.   

 

There is no reason why such a facility couldn't house and support a nice beer garden and cellar, forming a hub to a new and burgeoning neighborhood.  A mixed use building hiding the boring factory building is a start.   Apartments above the beer hall--GLBC could even offer a couple of them as AirBNB for beer fans to come in and stay for a couple days... 

 

I hate to bring up Europe as an example but there are many examples of this in center cities in Europe--Germany especially (Augustiner in Munich comes to mind...) 

 

 

9 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

This is another example where a little thinking outside the box and vision by the corporate and political leadership would go along way.   

 

There is no reason why such a facility couldn't house and support a nice beer garden and cellar, forming a hub to a new and burgeoning neighborhood.  A mixed use building hiding the boring factory building is a start.   Apartments above the beer hall--GLBC could even offer a couple of them as AirBNB for beer fans to come in and stay for a couple days... 

 

I hate to bring up Europe as an example but there are many examples of this in center cities in Europe--Germany especially (Augustiner in Munich comes to mind...) 

 

 

 

You're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.   This is a mistake the city of Cleveland often makes, and it holds them back at least as much as any lack of vision may.   August Fluker is particularly guilty of it.

 

It's fair to say that a company planning to locate in the city has looked at all the options and has made the decision that is right for them.   To question and even nitpick it is more likely to cause them to question the decision itself than to go along.  

10 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

This is another example where a little thinking outside the box and vision by the corporate and political leadership would go along way.   

 

There is no reason why such a facility couldn't house and support a nice beer garden and cellar, forming a hub to a new and burgeoning neighborhood.  A mixed use building hiding the boring factory building is a start.   Apartments above the beer hall--GLBC could even offer a couple of them as AirBNB for beer fans to come in and stay for a couple days... 

 

I hate to bring up Europe as an example but there are many examples of this in center cities in Europe--Germany especially (Augustiner in Munich comes to mind...) 

 

 

I've made this argument before, but the reason is that GLBC risks cannibalizing their Ohio City business. They're within walking distance. It's almost exactly the same people within walking/biking/driving/transit distance, maybe a few new walkers but that's about it. A large percentage of beer garden visitors will almost certainly just be people that would have otherwise gone to their Ohio City location. They should think very hard about putting any kind of brewpub at this location, maybe bring in consults, etc. It will have to be very different from their Ohio City location, vibe, menu, etc, and even then it might still just cannibalize existing business. Tbh, I'd probably advise against it... 

17 hours ago, freethink said:

So its The Collins at the Riverbend now, Ok.

collinsriverbend.com

Where do they come up with these names 😆

40 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Where do they come up with these names 😆

https://www.warbyparker.com/eyeglasses

9 minutes ago, ML11 said:

https://www.warbyparker.com/eyeglasses

Two things:

1. I feel very attacked. 
2. Be glad they didn't call them The Boggs 😆

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

I've made this argument before, but the reason is that GLBC risks cannibalizing their Ohio City business. They're within walking distance. It's almost exactly the same people within walking/biking/driving/transit distance, maybe a few new walkers but that's about it. A large percentage of beer garden visitors will almost certainly just be people that would have otherwise gone to their Ohio City location. They should think very hard about putting any kind of brewpub at this location, maybe bring in consults, etc. It will have to be very different from their Ohio City location, vibe, menu, etc, and even then it might still just cannibalize existing business. Tbh, I'd probably advise against it... 

 

It could and should be very different. I'm thinking nature trails, connected to biking, ample indoor-outdoor dining space, architecture that lets nature inside, etc. etc.  The original location remains an anchor of the block in an urban context. The new location can be a design for its unique more natural location, like an oasis in the city.   

1 hour ago, Enginerd said:

Where do they come up with these names 😆

 

 

2 hours ago, Ethan said:

I've made this argument before, but the reason is that GLBC risks cannibalizing their Ohio City business. They're within walking distance. It's almost exactly the same people within walking/biking/driving/transit distance, maybe a few new walkers but that's about it. A large percentage of beer garden visitors will almost certainly just be people that would have otherwise gone to their Ohio City location. They should think very hard about putting any kind of brewpub at this location, maybe bring in consults, etc. It will have to be very different from their Ohio City location, vibe, menu, etc, and even then it might still just cannibalize existing business. Tbh, I'd probably advise against it... 

anecdotal but every time i tried to go to great lakes in Ohio City there was a huge wait for a spot. I think I went twice or three times at most since moving here because it was always a pain to be put on a huge waitlist. I haven't tried going back in a long time because of that. Plenty of other breweries where I can walk in any time of day. So maybe this would be good to split up the customer base. They would gain more customers imo.  

34 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

It could and should be very different. I'm thinking nature trails, connected to biking, ample indoor-outdoor dining space, architecture that lets nature inside, etc. etc.  The original location remains an anchor of the block in an urban context. The new location can be a design for its unique more natural location, like an oasis in the city.   

Sounds great, I'm just worried that we're basically asking GLBC to make an in kind charitable contribution to the city with this request. Their primary purpose in building this site is industrial, any brewpub would be secondary, there are many valid reasons why we tend to separate industry and park space. Heavy trucks and bicycling don't go great together for one, neither do kids playing. 

 

For that matter, I have a hard time imagining an industrial site designed primarily to be an "oasis in the city" being profitable for the company. As mentioned above there's a lot of tension between what will make an industrial site efficient, and what will make it a nice park-like place for residents. I'm not saying it's impossible to do both, but realistically GLBC will have to sacrifice something, maybe money, maybe business efficiency, idk. 

 

2 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said:

anecdotal but every time i tried to go to great lakes in Ohio City there was a huge wait for a spot. I think I went twice or three times at most since moving here because it was always a pain to be put on a huge waitlist. I haven't tried going back in a long time because of that. Plenty of other breweries where I can walk in any time of day. So maybe this would be good to split up the customer base. They would gain more customers imo.  

They'll gain some customers, yes; however some customers will be ones that would have otherwise gone to their Ohio City location. No matter how cool and different they make the new location, one of the main reasons to go to a brewery is their unique beer. The problem is that unless they want to go the nanobrew route similar to market garden (which might be the best way to go) they will have two locations within walking distance serving the same beer. And for what it's worth I've gone to their Ohio City location with no wait several times (though usually on weekdays) and I imagine those times when there's a wait to get in are when restaurants make most of their money. 

 

To be clear, I'll certainly be rooting for this location and GLBC generally if they go with the two brewpub in walking distance route, I'm just expressing my skepticism from a business perspective. 

2 hours ago, Ethan said:

I've made this argument before, but the reason is that GLBC risks cannibalizing their Ohio City business. They're within walking distance. It's almost exactly the same people within walking/biking/driving/transit distance, maybe a few new walkers but that's about it. A large percentage of beer garden visitors will almost certainly just be people that would have otherwise gone to their Ohio City location. They should think very hard about putting any kind of brewpub at this location, maybe bring in consults, etc. It will have to be very different from their Ohio City location, vibe, menu, etc, and even then it might still just cannibalize existing business. Tbh, I'd probably advise against it... 

In their original plan the industrial complex was going on the much larger plot they bought across the road farthest from the river and the brewpub was going on the smaller plot on the river. If Greats Lakes goes with the riverfront brewpub complex they originally had in mind I see it being a destination for people from all over to come to and not just locally but tourists visiting as well. It might have some of the same customers but I feel they will be able to serve significantly more customers at a new complex than they can at their Ohio City location currently. They could always have specialty OHC pub specific beers at that location or something like that to draw people as well.

14 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

This is another example where a little thinking outside the box and vision by the corporate and political leadership would go along way.   

 

There is no reason why such a facility couldn't house and support a nice beer garden and cellar, forming a hub to a new and burgeoning neighborhood.  A mixed use building hiding the boring factory building is a start.   Apartments above the beer hall--GLBC could even offer a couple of them as AirBNB for beer fans to come in and stay for a couple days... 

 

I hate to bring up Europe as an example but there are many examples of this in center cities in Europe--Germany especially (Augustiner in Munich comes to mind...) 

 

 

Conjures up images of Brew Dog here in Canal Winchester with their hotel and restaurant. 

No idea how old these are, but I came across these renderings when looking up more info about this project.  From https://coburnpartners.com/project/great-lakes-brewing/

 

 

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

Sounds great, I'm just worried that we're basically asking GLBC to make an in kind charitable contribution to the city with this request. Their primary purpose in building this site is industrial, any brewpub would be secondary, there are many valid reasons why we tend to separate industry and park space. Heavy trucks and bicycling don't go great together for one, neither do kids playing. 

 

For that matter, I have a hard time imagining an industrial site designed primarily to be an "oasis in the city" being profitable for the company. As mentioned above there's a lot of tension between what will make an industrial site efficient, and what will make it a nice park-like place for residents. I'm not saying it's impossible to do both, but realistically GLBC will have to sacrifice something, maybe money, maybe business efficiency, idk. 

 

Forgive me for being a broken record on this lol. But here is Stone Brewing Company's major facility. Imagine this along the river. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TMart said:

Conjures up images of Brew Dog here in Canal Winchester with their hotel and restaurant. 

People would travel from all over to stay in a hotel room with Christmas Ale on tap. 

Those are awesome images, but I just don’t see it happening here. I expect them to submit something that is just a basic warehouse-type box. And that doesn’t fit in this part of town. 

1 minute ago, PlanCleveland said:

People would travel from all over to stay in a hotel room with Christmas Ale on tap. 

 

Years back I was at a Christmas Ale tapping event at GLBC. Around 9pm a car full of people from Chicago rolled in for the event...only to find that the brewery had just ran out of beer 10 minutes earlier. It was sad to see. 

 

*If you build it, they may come back :-) 

12 minutes ago, noname said:

Those are awesome images, but I just don’t see it happening here. I expect them to submit something that is just a basic warehouse-type box. And that doesn’t fit in this part of town. 

Neither did 600+ market rate apartments for the longest time, yet here we are.

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, noname said:

Those are awesome images, but I just don’t see it happening here. I expect them to submit something that is just a basic warehouse-type box. And that doesn’t fit in this part of town. 

This neighborhood is literally a blank slate, they can make it whatever they want. 

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

 

Forgive me for being a broken record on this lol. But here is Stone Brewing Company's major facility. Imagine this along the river. 

 

 

 

In the article they talk about reinventing themselves to reach the next generation of customers. Building something like this could help them establish GLBC as a lifestyle brand and offer more ways to reach younger customers who aren’t drinking the same way or as much. The current location is a classic and beloved but to me offers a very different experience from what I’ve seen in other cities where people of all generations come and basically hang out for a big chunk of the day having drinks, getting food, playing games, chatting with friends as kids play.

2 minutes ago, coneflower said:

In the article they talk about reinventing themselves to reach the next generation of customers. Building something like this could help them establish GLBC as a lifestyle brand and offer more ways to reach younger customers who aren’t drinking the same way or as much. The current location is a classic and beloved but to me offers a very different experience from what I’ve seen in other cities where people of all generations come and basically hang out for a big chunk of the day having drinks, getting food, playing games, chatting with friends as kids play.

Clearly what the Augustine monks were also thinking in Munich some 500 years ago 😁

 

https://www.augustinerkeller.de/en/Gallery/360°-tour

 

But seriously--if they think this through, there can be an event center and other rentable gathering spaces included in the design.  

21 hours ago, acd said:

No idea how old these are, but I came across these renderings when looking up more info about this project.  From https://coburnpartners.com/project/great-lakes-brewing/

 

 

 

 

In saving them, their date comes up as part of the file name -- Oct. 13, 2017.

I clicked the link- that wouldn’t be too bad! Funny though, the description of the project says, “The land sits above the Cyohoga River, looking across to downtown.” 

 

Details, people 😄

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

In saving them, their date comes up as part of the file name -- Oct. 13, 2017.

 

Wow that's even older than I would have guessed.  Hopefully GLBC still has something similar in mind.

On 9/4/2024 at 9:17 AM, surfohio said:

 

It could and should be very different. I'm thinking nature trails, connected to biking, ample indoor-outdoor dining space, architecture that lets nature inside, etc. etc.  The original location remains an anchor of the block in an urban context. The new location can be a design for its unique more natural location, like an oasis in the city.   

I really like Southern Tier's Brewery in Lakewood, NY. You have the brewery itself, a modest taphouse that has some food but is definitely more beer oriented, a decently large outdoor stage, and a big seating area with picnic tables and space for regular concert seating. 

 

I could see all that with a stage being built next to the hillside with amphitheater style seating being a huge hit. 

From what I understand the parting of ways with the former CEO was because he was one of the main people pushing for the move to Avon. The Conways still want to develop the riverfront land but are not in much of a hurry which is why this is dragging along. But those original designs are great - I would love to see something like that happen. 

The fact they even had those original designs drawn up in 2017 is promising that they wont just stick a warehouse there, especially now that the area is starting to undergo a ton of development, when it wasnt so much in 2017.

1 hour ago, mrclifton88 said:

From what I understand the parting of ways with the former CEO was because he was one of the main people pushing for the move to Avon. The Conways still want to develop the riverfront land but are not in much of a hurry which is why this is dragging along. But those original designs are great - I would love to see something like that happen. 

 

We always think where a company builds is a lot of corporate consensus building of the Board or corner offices but many times it's the decision of one or two people. 

^It's the same story over and over again... I'm sure the former CEO lived either in Avon or close by.

Edited September 5, 2024Sep 5 by Oldmanladyluck

4 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^It's the same story over and over again... I'm sure the former CEO lived either in Avon or close by.

That and it's the "cheap and easy" thing to do.  Farmland next to a freeway is certainly easier to pull off than a former industrial wasteland in the heart of a city. 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

That and it's the "cheap and easy" thing to do.  Farmland next to a freeway is certainly easier to pull off than a former industrial wasteland in the heart of a city. 

And more importantly from a business perspective, less risky. The potential returns at the Scranton site are undoubtedly higher, but there's more risk. Whereas the Avon site was nearly guaranteed a middling level of success.

 

That said, I appreciate GLBC's willingness to double down on Cleveland and the Ohio City area. They played their part in Ohio City's comeback, perhaps it's fitting they are now poised to pay a large part in Scranton Peninsula's revival. 

On 9/4/2024 at 11:14 AM, acd said:

No idea how old these are, but I came across these renderings when looking up more info about this project.  From https://coburnpartners.com/project/great-lakes-brewing/

 

 

This would be so cool. I wasn’t aware that GLBC’s property down there encompassed both sides of Carter. 
 

The renderings feel like the site would be an extension of Irishtown Bend Park.

Views of Scranton from Intro

Really great pics!  Those almost make me wish the SW built in PHS to create balance.  However we'd wait a very long time for the PS square lots to get built on.  That said. All good!

 

Great Lakes Brewing revisits Scranton Peninsula move

By Ken Prendergast / September 10, 2024

 

NEOtrans has learned that one of Ohio’s oldest craft brewers is not only seeking to remain in Cleveland but is dusting off old plans to move its production facilities to Scranton Peninsula in Cleveland’s Flats. Sources familiar with the Great Lakes Brewing Company’s (GLBC) plans said that if public assistance can be found to provide enough developable land for the company’s expansion, it will likely relocate there.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/09/10/great-lakes-brewing-revisits-scranton-peninsula-move/

 

Does "provide enough developable land" essentially mean making sure utilities, infrastructure etc are in place on the land GLBC owns on Scranton Peninsula?

14 minutes ago, TDi said:

Does "provide enough developable land" essentially mean making sure utilities, infrastructure etc are in place on the land GLBC owns on Scranton Peninsula?

 

Yes. Could also mean removing old structures from the riverfront land. Could also mean adding more land.

Yesterday: 

 

 

That last view could change even more, perhaps soon ;)

What is the status of the other apartment project that was planned here?

21 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

What is the status of the other apartment project that was planned here?

 

Which? Only two were planned. Both are under construction.

45 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Which? Only two were planned. Both are under construction.

Wow this whole time I've been thinking only the NRP project was