Wait, isn't Rivergate taking up a decent portion of Scanton Penisula in the near future?

 

Rivergate will be on Columbus Peninsula, just across the river from Irishtown Bend.

To get a pre-view of some of the clientele that will frequent and be associated with casinos around here......an invitation is extended to visit S.R. 91 in Akron (Springfield TWP. "internet cafe" alley) Its as though every Mall-Wart in the country suddenly broke open like a giant pinata and spilled its contents of patrons over a hundred acres! Enjoy oh this savior of the economy that will be so unlike the countless other nearby cities who have the same thing!

 

you need help.

To get a pre-view of some of the clientele that will frequent and be associated with casinos around here......an invitation is extended to visit S.R. 91 in Akron (Springfield TWP. "internet cafe" alley) Its as though every Mall-Wart in the country suddenly broke open like a giant pinata and spilled its contents of patrons over a hundred acres! Enjoy oh this savior of the economy that will be so unlike the countless other nearby cities who have the same thing!

 

Yes, you need much, much help.

 

P.S. It's Wal-Mart.

^ and ^^ - You fellas just haven't really looked at or know about the bird.... yet.

 

 

 

P.S. It's Wal-Mart.

 

No Junior.....its "Mall Wart" to me. That's what I refer to it as....It is what it is. The only help I need is to refrain from laughing at the Pollyanna thinking.  :lol: 

I smell a time out  /  suspension coming soon....

It may be time to dust off this therad in response to the idea of a cut through shipping channel that would create Scranton Island.

 

Just wondering, does the group see having a marina in the existing part of the river a good thing?

What would it to for the health of the river?

 

IIRC it can be done for $50 Million, including a new bridge.  That is a good chunk of money, but just a portion of the overall casino costs.

 

If (don't laugh) Forest City and the casino paid for the shipping channel and new bridge, would it be a good thing?

i dont dislike that idea. added casino $ or anything that could get the ratners to move off their azz and develop scranton is a good thing.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/12/shippers_to_propose_widening_c.html

 

Shippers to propose widening Cuyahoga River navigation channel to make room for Dan Gilbert's Cleveland casino

 

Published: Tuesday, December 07, 2010, 7:00 AM    Updated: Tuesday, December 07, 2010, 10:24 AM

Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The local shipping industry is about to propose allowing Dan Gilbert to fill in 29 feet of the Cuyahoga River for parking at his Cleveland casino in exchange for widening the navigation channel on the other side of Collision Bend.

 

The proposal from the Lake Carriers' Association, the group representing freighter companies in discussions about the river, involves widening the river channel by dredging a large bowl-shaped area of shallow water and removing the nearby Eagle Avenue Bridge.

 

 

Not sure yet if this means we should move this out of Abandoned Projects yet. But I posted this in here rather than in the Cleveland Demolition thread because: 1) I doubt many people will miss these buildings, 2) the applicant is a company named "Scranton Development." I don't know if that means they are demolishing with the intent of building, but they could have called themselves "Scranton Scrap"......

 

 

Downtown/Flats Design Review District

Agenda

November 15, 2012 9:30am

City Hall, Room 514, 601 Lakeside Avenue

1. DF2012-092 – Demolition of four Industrial Buildings

Project Address: 1857 & 1859 Carter Road

Project Representative: Neal Kirchner, Scranton Development

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2012/11162012/111512DRACagenda.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm concerned that events like Superstorm Sandy will make any development of Scranton Peninsula uninsurable

Property insurance typically excludes flood coverage.

 

What purpose does this demo serve?  Is that a question that's asked, when they request permission?

Anyone know if it is near the path of the Towpath Trail?

Yes, but I'm not sure that there's a part of Scranton Peninsula that could be considered not near the planned towpath route.

So all of this talk about Scranton Peninsula from the FC thread led me to a study currently wrapping up from CSU urban planning. It looks to be in cooperation with FC as the 'client'.  Two student teams presented their vision for the peninsula. They did significant work in research and planning. The presentation PDF is a great read(warning it is 199 pages) that I haven't begun to go thru yet. Lots of info.

 

http://carter-riverfront.com/

 

http://carter-riverfront.com/s/Carter-Riverfront-Development-FINAL.pdf      (17mb)

 

http://urban.csuohio.edu/syllabi/spring15/ust611_Kellogg_Kastelic.pdf

 

 

And some of you may remember my idea for the peninsula almost 10 years ago. I might have to redo it as my graphic skills have gotten a bit better...lol...10 years ago! And I am still putting around on this stupidazz website...wtf...where has my life gone?...................but I digress :-o

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4043.msg109813.html#msg109813

Very nicely done! Here's some of the slides....

 

 

 

 

Wow, Team A wins by a long-shot. Maybe Le Corbusier would be a fan of Team B, but certainly not me!

 

Anyone know why both site plans keep the train tracks? The bridge from Scranton Rd. Peninsula to Columbus Rd. Peninsula is no longer in operation, and the plans would wipe out nearly all the manufacturing on the peninsula. I wouldn't see much use for the tracks in a redeveloped Scranton Peninsula. They would only create disconnect, where it isn't necessary.

Wow, Team A wins by a long-shot. Maybe Le Corbusier would be a fan of Team B, but certainly not me!

 

Anyone know why both site plans keep the train tracks? The bridge from Scranton Rd. Peninsula to Columbus Rd. Peninsula is no longer in operation, and the plans would wipe out nearly all the manufacturing on the peninsula. I wouldn't see much use for the tracks in a redeveloped Scranton Peninsula. They would only create disconnect, where it isn't necessary.

 

Those tracks are in fact still in use. The Flats Industrial RR is the owner and they operate a few local trains a day that connect a hand full of clients. They usually finish all their work by 10am each day. One of those clients is the the cereal mill that sits next to State Fish/Catanese Classic Seafood on Merwin near the Center Street swing bridge. So they do operate that lone lift bridge. You can usually see the trail engines blocking tracks between Columbus Rd and the bridge when not in use. 

I could have sworn that merely stabilizing the soil on the peninsula would cost an ungodly amount of money, somewhere in the mid eight figures.  In fact, I saw a proposal (perhaps here) to dredge out the whole peninsula and build a lake of sorts.  That potential contamination map would likely nix that idea.

3231 is correct. Those tracks and the lift bridge are in regular use and owned by the railroad operator, Flats Industrial RR, which has made a number of capital improvements to those tracks in recent years.

 

I could have sworn that merely stabilizing the soil on the peninsula would cost an ungodly amount of money, somewhere in the mid eight figures.  In fact, I saw a proposal (perhaps here) to dredge out the whole peninsula and build a lake of sorts.  That potential contamination map would likely nix that idea.

 

I have to wonder what impact "Mount Scranton" will have? That's a huge pile of fill dirt on the peninsula. Is that sufficient to mask whatever contamination is there?

3231 is correct. Those tracks and the lift bridge are in regular use and owned by the railroad operator, Flats Industrial RR, which has made a number of capital improvements to those tracks in recent years.

 

I could have sworn that merely stabilizing the soil on the peninsula would cost an ungodly amount of money, somewhere in the mid eight figures.  In fact, I saw a proposal (perhaps here) to dredge out the whole peninsula and build a lake of sorts.  That potential contamination map would likely nix that idea.

 

I have to wonder what impact "Mount Scranton" will have? That's a huge pile of fill dirt on the peninsula. Is that sufficient to mask whatever contamination is there?

 

Not unless things have changed dramatically.  "Dilution is not a remedy for pollution" used to be a cliche among regulators.  This is nonsensical to anyone with a chemistry background, but also reflects the regulatory mindset on other matters.

Just daydreaming a bit as to what Scranton Peninsula could become with this example from a similar industrial sized property in London.

http://howtospendit.ft.com/property/83791-new-east-london-development

 

http://www.londoncityisland.com/

Just daydreaming a bit as to what Scranton Peninsula could become with this example from a similar industrial sized property in London.

http://howtospendit.ft.com/property/83791-new-east-london-development

 

http://www.londoncityisland.com/

 

It was a marsh.    I'd be interested in how they stabilized it enough to put a bunch of buildings that size on it.    Or have they, yet?

 

 

It looks like a phased project, like FEB. It just reminds me so much of Scranton.  Much of the construction is modular which really hasn't hit the states that much. But it represents about 20% savings in construction costs.  I just like the scale/concept.  Forest City could make it happen (yeah right).

Follow the project at  http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=390192&page=16

It's Funny you mention Forest City and modularity. They are the developers behind the Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn which contains a modular highrise built over an existing rail yard. SHoP is the architect for the project and is going to be quite impactful, for better or worse, on that section of Brooklyn.

 

Scranton Peninsula could be a great urban renewal project like London City Island (though likely smaller buildings). The creation of a central public artery from the main road out to the riverfront with modern buildings on each side in a gridlike pattern creating a street wall on both sides could be a really great place.

There's still the question of what the land can hold. 

 

Wasn't there a ton of planning done for a project on the West Bank of the river a few years back, and it turned out the ground was simply too unstable to hold much of anything?

Depends on what a developer is looking to do. Building on poor soil isn't impossible nor is it uncommon. Look at Boston. 60% of the land in Boston city limits is back fill. Look at Battery Park City in Manhattan. All fill from excavation for the WTC and a sewer tunnel. Look at New Orleans and how much of that was swamp land naturally. Same with Miami and Miami Beach.

 

Scranton Peninsula isn't unique in that way at all. This problem has been around since ancient times and there are plenty of solutions for dealing with bad soil.

There is no ground that can't be built on.  Take the swamps of Florida or Louisiana for example.  There is always a way to build on fill, poor soils, organic materials, just comes at a cost.  It can however become cost prohibitive to remediate existing site conditions if the scale of the project doesn't generate revenues for a lucrative payback.  And yes, in Cleveland, we do struggle in that regard unlike Florida, Boston and NYC. 

Regarding the soil conditions, go to my post on the previous page  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4043.msg758340.html#msg758340 for a recent study by CSU students about building on SP. Also the following post from KJP.

There is no ground that can't be built on.  Take the swamps of Florida or Louisiana for example.  There is always a way to build on fill, poor soils, organic materials, just comes at a cost.  It can however become cost prohibitive to remediate existing site conditions if the scale of the project doesn't generate revenues for a lucrative payback.  And yes, in Cleveland, we do struggle in that regard unlike Florida, Boston and NYC. 

 

Exactly.  Building on pretty much any type of ground is an engineering problem with engineering solutions.

 

The issue is the cost, and I have heard some very high numbers just to make the peninsula developable.

One thing to remember, any proposals in the past were likely not very large in scale meaning the cost of making the peninsula buildable would have been too high for the scale of the buildings proposed. Things have changed greatly in the last decade. It's possible that something the scale of the FEB project spread over the entire peninsula and quite dense would warrant the large costs associated with building on less-than-ideal land.

One thing to remember, any proposals in the past were likely not very large in scale meaning the cost of making the peninsula buildable would have been too high for the scale of the buildings proposed. Things have changed greatly in the last decade. It's possible that something the scale of the FEB project spread over the entire peninsula and quite dense would warrant the large costs associated with building on less-than-ideal land.

 

I also have to wonder if the use of modular construction reducing costs by 20 percent combined with a large-scale project would make the economics work? There are a lot of construction projects underway right now which has driven up the price of projects and/or making developers wait until they can affordably get a construction contractor on site. There needs to be more construction worker hiring. And there are a lot more large-scale projects in the planning/development pipeline, including nuCLEus, lakefront, Campus District-North, plus a myriad of medium-sized and smaller projects. So until there's more contractor hiring, a developer may have to pay more to accelerate their project.

Anyone know more about this?  A $200,000 "revitalization grant" from JobsOhio to the Scranton Development Company.  One of only 7 projects that JobsOhio funded in May 2015.

 

jobs-ohio.com/site/assets/files/1796/jobsohio_metrics_may_2015.pdf

 

Did a little digging online and noted that the Scranton Development Company shows an address at 1920 Scranton Rd, Cleveland, OH 44113 - the old warehouse building that sits on the north side of Scranton close to the firehouse. 

 

I couldn't find anything else - but thought it was interesting enough to share.

^At that size, it is likely a grant to do an environmental Phase II.

^At that size, it is likely a grant to do an environmental Phase II.

 

I'd love to know more details, unfortunately the JobsOhio pdf above and the link below says "Phase 2" and nothing else:

http://www.jobs-ohio.com/about/monthly-metrics/2015/may/scranton-development-company/

 

For those unfamiliar with a Phase 2 assessment, this is what it involves:

http://www.aaienvcorp.com/phaseii.html

 

So who is Scranton Development Co? They list their address as 1920 Scranton Road (I can't figure out from the addresses on the buildings seen on GoogleEarth which building this):

http://www.sphinxaur.com/scranton-development-co/cleveland-oh/

 

However, Ohio Secretary of State shows Scranton Development Co. is a fictitious name created in 1989 by an applicant with the address of 50 Public Square, Suite 1160, Cleveland .... that's the office of David J. LaRue. He is the president and chief executive officer of Forest City Enterprises. The fictitious name has to be renewed occasionally. It was most recently renewed in March 2014, and it now lists to a Patricia A. Comai, a paralegal and office manager at Forest City:

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/rwservlet?imgc&Din=201406600235

 

Interestingly, information at the above link also notes that Scranton Development has a partner called Carter Peninsula Inc. -- also a Forest City Enterprises company!

^So it appears something may be in the works, but no one knows what yet. Is that a correct assessment? I've always thought  Scranton Peninsula would be such a cool place to live. Perhaps soon, this thread can be placed back into the active projects section.

Wild speculation moment:-> if FCE wanted to do a Flats East bank type development on Scranton Penninsula, Sherwin might be very interested in being an anchor tenant.  That way they would have presence on both sides of the river

 

With downtown apt occupancy, Duck Island developments, towpath trail completion, and the success of FEB, maybe it's finally time to develop Scranton Penninsula

 

 

Wild Speculation moment over

Forest City isn't in the development biz anymore. They're aren't even into the property ownership biz in Cleveland anymore. We don't have the margins necessary for a publicly traded company like FCE to keep Wall Street happy. However....

 

Some of their executives are into development in Cleveland and have taken it upon themselves to form their own companies or take over old ones formed by FCE to invest locally. That's what appears to be the case here (and with the Van Aken District at the end of the Blue Line).

Apparently, Scranton Heights wasn't meant to be. Coming back down to earth. There's a lot of demand for dirt somewhere. So many trucks.

^ Is there some sort of brownfield remediation occurring?

 

EDIT: Tied to the $200K grant mentioned above?

The site has been used to crush old concrete as part of the convention center construction and the new inner belt bridges.

Latest word is that FCE has completed is Phase 2 environmental assessment of Scranton Peninsula which included borings and core samples of the soil. Any brownfield remediation will cost many millions and has yet to start. Furthermore, FCE's partnership with Scranton-Averell Inc. to develop Scranton Peninsula is very much in doubt with FCE selling off all of its assets in Cleveland. Unless S-A buys out FCE's Scranton Peninsula's properties or FCE's paper companies that own the properties are acquired by FCE executives operating on their own, then this puts future development in limbo. FYI, some FCE executives or major shareholders are going out on their own, such as the Ratners and Millers with the Van Aken District in Shaker Heights or the Rockport Townhomes in Lakewood. Not saying that's what would happen here, but I find it interesting that the FCE's fictitious name Scranton Development Co. was renewed only last year (March 2014). But the name on the paper was transferred from FCE CEO David LaRue to a paralegal/office manager. So someone wanted to keep Scranton Development Co. alive despite FCE's move to becoming a REIT.

^The fact that someone is spending money on a phase 2 sound like good news to me. If not for imminent development (unlikely) than as due diligence for someone looking to buy out FCE or the entire ownership group.

Well... Like any "good" Wall Street company, FCE is spending someone else's money -- namely Ohio taxpayers' money in the form of a JobsOhio grant.

Good point. I forgot there was state cleanup money behind this.

The following item on this week's CPC agenda is interesting. Lake Link LLC is a new company, created in October 2015. The attorney filing their incorporation documents, Kirk Stewart, represents other real estate development clients. The principals of this new company are Earl Walker, a Cleveland investor and former Cuyahoga Community College professor and his real estate broker, Keith Brown, president of Progressive Urban Real Estate. They've wanted to develop on Scranton Peninsula for years. The only article I could find that mentions them both is this: http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2009/01/flats_connections_plan_would_a.html

 

Don't be surprised to see this company buy out Forest City Enterprises' interest in the Scranton Development partnership with Scranton Averell.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/02052016/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for February 5, 2016

 

Ordinance No. xxx-16(Ward 3/Councilmember Cimperman): Authorizing the Director of Capital Projects to sell surplus City-owned property along Carter Road to Lake Link LLC for redevelopment as part of a real estate transaction to allow the City to purchase land needed from Lake Link LLC for City's Scranton-Carter Rehabilitation Project.

BTW, the city's Scranton-Carter Rehabilitation Project is a road reconstruction project. County records show that Scranton and Carter roads, shaped like an upside-down U, will be rebuilt. The road construction project area starts at Scranton-Fairfield intersection, goes north on Scranton to the Scranton/Carter intersection, then heads southwest on Carter to Carter-Columbus intersection. Projected cost of the reconstruction is $6,385,900.

 

Carter Road from the lift bridge (across from Sherwin Williams) to Columbus Road is essentially vacated. It shows up on the city's parcel/GIS map as not existing. The right of way is currently owned by a subsidiary of Forest City. There is no rush to restore this as a through road -- unless there's one now. The Planning Commission agenda item I posted above suggests that Lake Link LLC will undertake a redevelopment of some kind. And the only city-owned property on Carter Road that I can find is across the street from Hooples bar at the intersection of Columbus/Franklin/Riverbed/Carter.

I cannot wait for the day that the true Flats is a bustling neighborhood.

When this peninsula is cleaned up, it will be an architect's dream. It's about as clean slate Sim City as any place in Cleveland.

Saw these beauties over on 1896 Scranton Road a couple of weeks ago.

We need more of this, IMO