This area absolutely has the potential for a complete urban fabric. You need only to look at the conceptual site plan for the thunderbird development to see it.

 

Building that urban fabric may be more expensive, sure, but it is possible.

"After weathering a fusillade of criticism by the Downtown/Flats Design Review Committee for its 299-suite plan for a site on Scranton Peninsula overlooking the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland's Flats, NRP Group withdrew its first cut at the project's design."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/nrp-groups-scranton-peninsula-plan-panned-then-pulled

9 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

This area absolutely has the potential for a complete urban fabric. You need only to look at the conceptual site plan for the thunderbird development to see it.

 

Building that urban fabric may be more expensive, sure, but it is possible.

Agreed. I was thinking, and this is my personal hope, that if Great Lakes Brewing Company is the main "tenant" on Scranton Peninsula (has anyone heard anything about their plans recently? unless I'm missing something, they seem to have been somewhat quiet), then I would think that the planning commission/developers would seek to formulate their design plans somewhat around those of GLBC, in order to create that cohesive urban fabric if they are to be one of, if not the centerpiece so-to-speak of the peninsula. Not that they have to design the residential buildings like a brewery, but you get the idea...

13 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

No offensive but I adamantly disagree with you.  This area is in the heart of the city (hell it is where Cleveland was founded) and has incredible potential.  No joke,

The big points made yesterday in review were this project does not tie into the urban fabric.  My point, and objection is, there is not fabric.  Sure, it can be created similar to the way Crocker was, but criticizing this right of the rip for this is not fair.  

1 minute ago, Jenny said:

The big points made yesterday in review were this project does not tie into the urban fabric.  My point, and objection is, there is not fabric.  Sure, it can be created similar to the way Crocker was, but criticizing this right of the rip for this is not fair.  

?

2 minutes ago, Jenny said:

The big points made yesterday in review were this project does not tie into the urban fabric.  My point, and objection is, there is not fabric.  Sure, it can be created similar to the way Crocker was, but criticizing this right of the rip for this is not fair.  

When would it be fair then? Seems to me like a reasonable time do so. 

Their point was that an urban fabric can and will be built up on the peninsula.  The proposed design didn't and could never tie into that fabric.  In fact, it appeared to be laid out in such a way as to discourage interaction with the surrounding neighborhood.

5 minutes ago, Jenny said:

The big points made yesterday in review were this project does not tie into the urban fabric.  My point, and objection is, there is not fabric.  Sure, it can be created similar to the way Crocker was, but criticizing this right of the rip for this is not fair.  

 

I'll take whatever it is you're smoking right now!

PRAISE THE LORD

Kudos to the committee for not only pushing back, but for giving the scathing feedback that this proposal deserved.

42 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I know Aaron very well, and he does put all his efforts into his developments nationwide.  This may have come back somewhat underwhelming, but I will disagree with the urban fabric comments.  That's a joke.  If there's one area in Cleveland that is not urban, this is it.  There's one way in and one way out with no "fabric" or potential for "fabric".  Anything done on Scranton Peninsula is a suburban lifestyle center built next to the city.  Aesthetically can it be pleasing, sure, but from a spill over perspective this has very little potential. 

 

There are 3 streets in/out of Scranton Peninsula, not 1. And eventually I'd like to see the city rebuild the Eagle Ave bridge, which would make 4. The rail right-of-way cutting through the middle of the peninsula will be an impediment to a true street grid, but that doesn't mean you can't emulate it.

 

41 minutes ago, Jenny said:

The big points made yesterday in review were this project does not tie into the urban fabric.  My point, and objection is, there is not fabric.  Sure, it can be created similar to the way Crocker was, but criticizing this right of the rip for this is not fair.  

 

What should be the case is that the city should have a proactive plan that has been outlined and adopted for this site (and the riverfront as a whole) so that when a developer comes in, they have guidance from official city documents

1 hour ago, Jenny said:

The big points made yesterday in review were this project does not tie into the urban fabric.  My point, and objection is, there is not fabric.  Sure, it can be created similar to the way Crocker was, but criticizing this right of the rip for this is not fair.  

Didn’t Ambler already lose that argument back in 1926? This land is part of the urban fabric base solely on its geographic positioning within the center of the City. It has the potential to not only be an urban neighborhood, but if done correctly, one that also unites downtown with Duck Island, Tremont, the Columbus peninsula, etc., in a cohesive and comprehensive walkable manner. Think OTR but with a R! 

 

If James Metzenbaum, William Howard Taft, and the City of Euclid have taught us anything, it’s that Cleveland not only has the authority, but also the civic duty, to ensure this land is developed in a manner consistent with the density and planning prowess expected of it as an urban area in the heart of our City. 

1 hour ago, Mendo said:

 

There are 3 streets in/out of Scranton Peninsula, not 1. And eventually I'd like to see the city rebuild the Eagle Ave bridge, which would make 4. The rail right-of-way cutting through the middle of the peninsula will be an impediment to a true street grid, but that doesn't mean you can't emulate it.

 

 

Agreed! Lakewood has rail right through it and maintains the street grid. We can at least aim for it. 

3 hours ago, Jenny said:

I know Aaron very well, and he does put all his efforts into his developments nationwide.  This may have come back somewhat underwhelming, but I will disagree with the urban fabric comments.  That's a joke.  If there's one area in Cleveland that is not urban, this is it.  There's one way in and one way out with no "fabric" or potential for "fabric".  Anything done on Scranton Peninsula is a suburban lifestyle center built next to the city.  Aesthetically can it be pleasing, sure, but from a spill over perspective this has very little potential.  

 

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/Scranton-Peninsula-Cleveland-OH/12944209/

 

A LIVING ROOM | Intimate and Human-Scaled Development conscious of the large site and surrounding infrastructure, the district is composed of a series of well-designed small spaces, cozy walkable streets, and short building blocks with compatible but diverse architecture.

 

They gave us this. Now I want this lol. 

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by surfohio

5 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

Some good news

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/07/developer-withdraws-scranton-peninsula-proposal-after-committee-rips-design.html

 

My favorite quote from the article:

 

“Bialosky asked the 11-member body for a straw poll to see who would vote against the NRP proposal, and 10 members raised their hands. Tom Zarfoss, the 11th member, recused.”

5 hours ago, NR said:

It would be nice if they built this up, expanding the city and taking full advantage of the river. Kind of like Chicago.

 

I would prefer a green space on both banks of the Cuyahoga river from the lake to the CVNP  and then the developments in its outer edges.

4 hours ago, Jenny said:

There's one way in and one way out with no "fabric" or potential for "fabric". 

 

I see where you're coming from but I also think you're conflating street grid with fabric. I agree there is a sub optimal street grid connecting downtown with Scranton peninsula but plenty of amazing cities, around the world have overcome far worse geological features to continue the urban fabric. Napoli comes to mind off the top of the head. 

 

I agree with others thoughts on why this huge development undertaking isn't being devided into a more phased approach. Under that method it's understandable to have surface lots that are part of a future development phase. With the current proposal though, nothing meaningful can ever happen with the lots. They are fully built into the finished product. 

On 7/18/2019 at 4:22 PM, Mendo said:

 

There are 3 streets in/out of Scranton Peninsula, not 1. And eventually I'd like to see the city rebuild the Eagle Ave bridge, which would make 4. The rail right-of-way cutting through the middle of the peninsula will be an impediment to a true street grid, but that doesn't mean you can't emulate it.

 

 

Are the rail tracks still currently in use?  

9 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

Are the rail tracks still currently in use?  

 

Yes

Noticed today that this is currently under construction.

 

https://jrocdevelopment.com/the-avian-at-thunderbird/

7 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Noticed today that this is currently under construction.

 

https://jrocdevelopment.com/the-avian-at-thunderbird/

 

I like.  I hope there is some sort of roof top bar/tapas as the views will stunning.

That's great news. I wonder if they landed a tenant or the reno is just speculative.

Google street view from Sep. 2018. Its at a great location, only ~1/2 a mile from the Tower City base. 

That area definitely needs some activation. It looks so far away. Can't believe it's only 1/2 a mile!!

On 9/28/2019 at 4:34 PM, MyTwoSense said:

 

I like.  I hope there is some sort of roof top bar/tapas as the views will stunning.

I remember from the specs for the renovation, that there is an option to add some more space to the three floor. 

 

And if GREAT LAKES BREWING and NRP projects move forward that could be a really nice live, work, and play area!!

 

And it also helps to connect OC, Tremont, and Downtown all together!

Edited September 30, 20195 yr by Larry1962

On 9/28/2019 at 4:42 PM, Mendo said:

That's great news. I wonder if they landed a tenant or the reno is just speculative.

 

Last I heard is that there isn't anyone lined up yet.

5 minutes ago, viscomi said:

 

Last I heard is that there isn't anyone lined up yet.

It’s gonna be a bit of a hard sell by itself. Gonna take some pioneering by someone.

3 minutes ago, marty15 said:

It’s gonna be a bit of a hard sell by itself. Gonna take some pioneering by someone.

Hopefully by the time the renovation is completed the GREAT LAKES BREWING and NRP projects will be underway and it'll help to find tenants.

Geis seems to be good at getting the ball rolling on projects. My hope is they intervened with NRPs initial plan.

The NRP proposal is back on the agenda for next week. 

And I agree who ever said it up thread but 200+ units on 7 acres is horrible use of space especially when  a third of that is for parking. Hope they learned something from the last go round.

It’s officially approved! 
 

“The proposal presented Thursday shows three buildings on Carter Road: a townhouse building next to large apartment buildings. Behind them would be two townhouse buildings separated by a two-level parking deck. The two apartment buildings would have a parking lot between them. NRP declined to give The Plain Dealer permission to publish the renderings it submitted, but said updated designs would be made available at a later date.”

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/10/scranton-peninsula-housing-project-gets-green-light-after-significant-improvements.html

 

The last part about not wanting to show the renderings does make me sort of concerned. Granted it was approved so I’m sure the design was better but still is odd.

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by urbanetics_

Anybody have any idea what the new NRP proposal is looking like.  The design review agenda has it before the panel today for conceptual review but have not seen any new renderings.  Did they go forward today per the agenda?

 

Edit: Wow, great minds think alike.  The above was posted just as I was typing my post.

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by Htsguy

3 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

It’s officially approved! 
 

“The proposal presented Thursday shows three buildings on Carter Road: a townhouse building next to large apartment buildings. Behind them would be two townhouse buildings separated by a two-level parking deck. The two apartment buildings would have a parking lot between them. NRP declined to give The Plain Dealer permission to publish the renderings it submitted, but said updated designs would be made available at a later date.”

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/10/scranton-peninsula-housing-project-gets-green-light-after-significant-improvements.html

 

The last part about not wanting to show the renderings does make me sort of concerned. Granted it was approved so I’m sure the design was better but still is odd.

 

The article says that current plans include 477 parking spaces which amount to 1.5 per unit and the committee asked them to study a two story parking garage. All that to say is I don’t think the design is much better given all those parking spaces but I hope I’m wrong.

^ The article quotes them as saying it’s imperative they have parking because of the area is undeveloped. Why, then, are they creating a strictly residential, rather than mixed-use, play?

 

Genuinely asking—not trying to demean their plan.  

Well now, that doesn't sound very transparent. Now I want the renderings, and I won't ask for permission to publish them. To anyone, please email them to me at: [email protected] or share them via personal message here at UO. I will screenshot what you send so that the digital signature starts with me. You will be left completely out of this. 

^Thanks for pursuing this. Democracy dies in Darkness as WaPo says. Weren't the renderings presented to the city for approval?  In such case, aren't they already in the public domain?

So wait a minute, is this Thunderbird? There was no mention of its name in the article.

1 hour ago, tastybunns said:

So wait a minute, is this Thunderbird? There was no mention of its name in the article.

I’m fine with the Thunderbird name going away. Why can’t we just do something basic here. Scranton Yards, Scranton Flats, Scranton Village..... something identifiable. Thunderbird exudes zero relation to this area aside from its Native American origin. 

Edited October 4, 20195 yr by marty15

1 hour ago, tastybunns said:

So wait a minute, is this Thunderbird? There was no mention of its name in the article.

 

It's in the area that was being marketed as Thunderbird.  But it doesn't sound like it is at all what the renderings of the Thunderbird project were promising.

By my reading, it is 7 acres out of the 25 acre Thunderbird site. 

Was anyone able to locate the updated renderings for the NRP project? I tried asking contacts and doing a deep dive on internet, but can't find anything.

They should now be PUBLIC DOCUMENTS and:

 

We NEED to see the RENDERINGS!!

 

We NEED to see the RENDERINGS!!

 

We NEED to see the RENDERINGS!!

Edited October 8, 20195 yr by Larry1962

1 hour ago, Larry1962 said:

They should now be PUBLIC DOCUMENTS and:

 

We NEED to see the RENDERINGS!!

 

We NEED to see the RENDERINGS!!

 

We NEED to see the RENDERINGS!!

u good?

He's speaking the exact words on the behalf of every comment on the Cleveland.com article. 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:15 PM, X said:

 

It's in the area that was being marketed as Thunderbird.  But it doesn't sound like it is at all what the renderings of the Thunderbird project were promising.

If I'm not mistaken, this accumulation of "Thunderbird" land (approx. 25 acres) is owned by multiple entities...

• This NRP project encompasses 7 acres of the 25 acre plot
• Pat Conway and Great Lakes Brewing own another 8-10 acres
• EWALT LLC (I believe) owns the remainder and likely plans to sell the land to other investors

Sources: 

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2019/01/great-lakes-brewing-co-expansion-what-will-become-of-scranton-road-peninsula-land.html and https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/nrp-groups-scranton-peninsula-plan-panned-then-pulled

 

Pat Conway and GLBC have been very transparent about their plans with their plot of land. They stated earlier this year that they had a lot of intriguing but broad visions that needed to be narrowed down and vetted before they create any sort of official plan or rendering (see the above Cleveland.com article for reference). 

 

Any renderings you've seen to this point have likely been aspirational or imaginative in nature. 

 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2019

Scranton Peninsula's first major project gets a little denser

 

Cleveland-based NRP Group has submitted to the city revised plans for its Scranton Peninsula development, after an earlier version was rejected by the City Planning Commission as having too much surface parking and looking too suburban.

The new plan features 315 apartments in two buildings plus 15 townhomes. The site plan reduces the amount of surface parking while preserving the total number of spaces by providing a two-level parking deck. It also offers the semblance of a street grid, removes gated entrances and puts buildings up close to the street.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/scranton-peninsulas-first-major-project.html

Slightly better, but still terrible. Just the wrong developer for a such a cool site. 

I really want to like this.......but its just not good.  

I like it