I’m cool with it. I think it’s a good start to build off of. 

It's superior to the previous proposal for sure.

 

Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. Is it a solid foundation to help catalyze further development around it? Heck yeah.

 

While this initial phase isn't the Thunderbird we all got excited about with the original marketing hype, I'm very confident that it will help lead to a cool, walkable neighborhood. This site has lots of potential, and it's important to keep in mind that this is just one step to help us get there.

Edited October 15, 20195 yr by urbanetics_

While NRP's building quality is questionable, they do have a track record of getting things built and leased quickly.  Something of decent scale is needed to jump-start the area, and I think this is probably good enough (though not spectacular by any means.)  Hopefully if they get this up and running in the next few years, it will get the ball rolling on other developments on Scranton.  

Much better. I think it's hard to get a sense of the street presence this will have since the renderings aren't great in detail and the overview leads people to focus on the parking. From the street all you'll see are townhomes and apartments. There's still plenty of land to build upon in Scranton, and although not perfect, this should act as a solid catalyst to bring more down to the area. 

Is it so hard to build the facade of the building up to the street?  If they want this neighborhood to have any liveliness and activity there should be street-level retail.  It's not clear to me that this project will have any of that, and it's almost impossible to do with these U-shaped courtyard buildings chopping up the continuity of the street.  

 

This is better than the last rendering but that's not saying much.  

Link to the design review agenda. There's way more pics here.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/10182019/index.php

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Avian. They’re putting a lot into this to bring it back.  And Stark wants to demolish that Prospect building......

This is fantastic!!! ^^^

Does anyone else find the townhomes connected to the parking garage odd? 

These renderings aren’t too bad.. a little surprised though there’s no apparent utilization of roof space.

3 minutes ago, MostlyThere14 said:

Does anyone else find the townhomes connected to the parking garage odd? 

I wouldn’t buy one, but people do apparently. They did it at Crocker. I guess some people are fine with just having windows on one side of their home ??‍♂️.  Will definitely make the garage look better. 

 

Then again, it’s only a 2 story garage.

Edited October 15, 20195 yr by marty15

3 minutes ago, MostlyThere14 said:

Does anyone else find the townhomes connected to the parking garage odd? 

It’s a little different than what we’re used to seeing.  It’s certainly an improvement over just a parking garage.

Man I hate parking garages that allow parking on the top. Especially when these buildings are looked down at from above, not a good look. I would have questioned that and asked for something better.

4 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I wouldn’t buy one, but people do apparently. They did it at Crocker. I guess some people are fine with just having windows on one side of their home ??‍♂️.  Will definitely make the garage look better. 

 

Then again, it’s only a 2 story garage.

Good point. I was trying to think if there was something similar in the area.

We've gone from awful to meh.  So....progress?

Just remove that gigantic surface lot and out town homes in front of it instead or reconfigure it so it’s behind buildings. Otherwise I can live with this for a start.

35 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Avian. They’re putting a lot into this to bring it back.  And Stark wants to demolish that Prospect building......

Stark is a joke

I know this would cost a decent amount more but if they would just make that parking garage two stories higher and have it all be covered parking then I'd be good with this design even though i still wouldn't love all the parking that'd still be remaining.  Does anyone know if the parking structure is being built such that a couple levels could be added on on if they chose to do so later to add more buildings in the complex?

Street renderings remind me of Battery Park/Edison, with that, I don't think those spaces are very welcoming to the public (aside from the bike path awkwardly cutting through). I think the city should aim for first story retail to at least activate the outsider pedestrian development - granted people ponying up for these might not like that....

Lets hope that parking garage will allow for a future phase on top of it!

While I’m sure we would all love to see street level retail we have to be realistic here. Retail is tough in Cleveland. New construction retail is even tougher. The Avenue District sits empty and boarded up from the start. Downtown is littered with vacancy, and new developments like Uptown and Flats East have had their struggles even with a far better retail location. 

I still don't like it but with a few tweaks it could be passable as urban. 

 

 1) The row behind the the two main buildings, is to my best estimate about 60 ft. I would make the parking here diagonal, saving room. Two-way with diagonal parking needs about 50 ft. So you gain about 10'. Then if move the parking deck back as far as you can, I think you have enough room to line the front of the parking deck with townhomes (like they have on the other two sides)

 

2) I would like to some sort of retail here. Best option I see is ground floor on the 5 story main building facing where GL is going. When great lakes builds their portion you want that area to be welcoming to walk around and expore. Currently I don't think they accomplish that at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are Thunderbird and NRP two different firms, or just a different name on the project? If they are different, what makes NRP stand out, and why did they take priority over SP when seemingly nothing about a bidding war was in the news? I keep asking but i never get a solid answer. Is it or is it not still Thunderbird?

4 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but are Thunderbird and NRP two different firms, or just a different name on the project? If they are different, what makes NRP stand out, and why did they take priority over SP when seemingly nothing about a bidding war was in the news? I keep asking but i never get a solid answer. Is it or is it not still Thunderbird?

It’s basically like an open source development. There’ll be a multitude of developers involved when it’s all said and done. Thunderbird is the name of the development  Geis and J-Roc gave to it. It’s a vision at this point.

Thunderbird was the marketing name for a vision plan by the owner of the entire Scranton peninsula. They sold off chunks of Scranton peninsula to developers to actually build things. One chunk was sold to NRP group for this development.

Wow, that's actually pretty cool how they did that. Once one thing gets going i'm very sure taller buildings will follow suit, it's a relatively large 20 year ongoing undisturbed piece of soil.

I find the updated design uninspiring and boring. I am surprised, especially since Sherwin Williams is playing on building their new headquarters in the downtown area. They better step up the design because Cleveland is on the up and up and we don't need uninspiring developments right now.

I like this design alot better and i think its a good start for the area!  i approve

 

So much better than the original rendering

I'm not sure what everyone's complaining about. I think it's fine. Get it built.

7 hours ago, Mendo said:

Link to the design review agenda. There's way more pics here.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/10182019/index.php

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are more than 4 stories and some units have balconies, and there is no vinyl siding, so I am satisfied. This is the first project for people to live on the peninsula, so it is a cautious test. Keep in mind it will be next to an industrial brewery, and it is not riverfront property. This peninsula is also river silt and depending on how far down bedrock is, that limits height and weight of the buildings and effects the cost of the foundations. That being said, that parking garage is near the center of the peninsula and could be an awesome future phase if built similar to the 515 Euclid garage being able to support up to 10 floors above could make this project a great centerpiece!

 

If the plan for the peninsula is carried out in a tasteful manner, I can see this being the most exclusive neighborhood in Ohio because the people who decide to call this peninsula home never want to move out.

^ Cement board siding isn't a ton better than vinyl. And it'll be a maintenance issue as it ages, sooner than people expect.

Is the curved pathway that comes up to the left of the parcel and curves behind the proposed parking garage a railroad track?  If so, placing the garage there would make sense to me.  It's too bad IMO that they did not use curvature in their structures to echo the plot boundary.

 ^It is a RR track, but it's just a little short line. @KJP would know best, but how much longer is that line going to last? If and when that ROW is converted to a trail, that garage is going to be pretty bad.

8 hours ago, JSC216 said:

While I’m sure we would all love to see street level retail we have to be realistic here. Retail is tough in Cleveland. New construction retail is even tougher. The Avenue District sits empty and boarded up from the start. Downtown is littered with vacancy, and new developments like Uptown and Flats East have had their struggles even with a far better retail location. 

What is empty and boarded up from the start?

 

This post doesn't make sense as written.

33 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

What is empty and boarded up from the start?

 

This post doesn't make sense as written.

The ground floor retail spaces in the Avenue District building. It was such a failure that Phase 2 lacks any retail component, which makes sense since phase 1 is still just a shell that has never been built out or occupied. 

1 hour ago, StapHanger said:

 ^It is a RR track, but it's just a little short line. @KJP would know best, but how much longer is that line going to last? If and when that ROW is converted to a trail, that garage is going to be pretty bad.

 

Flats Industrial Railroad just received some funding from the Ohio Rail Development Commission not too long ago to upgrade its tracks to continue to serve the Grain Craft silos at 1635 Merwin. As long as the silos and the railroad's movable bridge last, the railroad will probably last.

Scranton Peninsula from the Red Line. The planed NRP development site to the right seems pretty clear/shovel ready. 

 

Note the Flats Industrial Railroad switcher locomotive in front of the lift bridge which operates along the rail line bisecting the peninsula. 

 

You can see progress on and equipment at the site of The Avian development. Its interaction with the river here will be interesting, providing a pretty unique amenity for office space downtown/in the flats. 

On 10/15/2019 at 8:30 PM, WhatUp said:

They are more than 4 stories and some units have balconies, and there is no vinyl siding, so I am satisfied. This is the first project for people to live on the peninsula, so it is a cautious test. Keep in mind it will be next to an industrial brewery, and it is not riverfront property. This peninsula is also river silt and depending on how far down bedrock is, that limits height and weight of the buildings and effects the cost of the foundations. That being said, that parking garage is near the center of the peninsula and could be an awesome future phase if built similar to the 515 Euclid garage being able to support up to 10 floors above could make this project a great centerpiece!

 

If the plan for the peninsula is carried out in a tasteful manner, I can see this being the most exclusive neighborhood in Ohio because the people who decide to call this peninsula home never want to move out.

 

If NRP can make it work financially, it would be nice IF the parking deck is built with a foundation like 515 EUCLID GARAGE!

 

It would allow for a 5-15 story apartment complex built on top when the whole SP is developed in the future and hopefully there is more demand for upscale housing!!

 

And I did notice there is a few retail locations included in the current renderings, which they hopefully be able to use for other porpoises until they are leased for retail. 

 

And it will require a long term view, realizing that it will take some good amount of time to fully develop such a unique asset!!

 

Plus there is another 50+ acres that is owned by another company/trust that encompasses the rest of the SP to be DEVELOPED SOME DAY!

Edited February 12, 20205 yr by Larry1962
Acres size

Don’t look at this project as the defining cornerstone of the development. I see it as a really good complementary project that provides density, and that just happened to be built first, in the grand scheme. This project puts in 299 units. The much ballyhooed Nucleus project only has 250 units, for what its worth.

The focal point and activity will ultimately be on the other side of Carter Road along the riverside. 

Edited October 16, 20195 yr by marty15

On 10/15/2019 at 1:49 PM, JSC216 said:

While I’m sure we would all love to see street level retail we have to be realistic here. Retail is tough in Cleveland. New construction retail is even tougher. The Avenue District sits empty and boarded up from the start. Downtown is littered with vacancy, and new developments like Uptown and Flats East have had their struggles even with a far better retail location. 

When it comes to the actual Uptown development, besides the sit down restaurants when the development first finished closing and Corner Alley, the same retailers for the most part have been there since 2008. MASSIVE names that don't open new locations very often, especially in city limits (Chase and Verizon) recently set up shop as well. 

 

The secret is find out what works for your demographic and hire people that have legitimate pull and skill when it comes to attracting retail shops. That is what MRN has done and continues to do, which is why the small vacancies they did have were occupied relatively quickly, look at what they did with the MASSIVE Corner Alley space.

 

To bring it back to this development if they follow the MRN blueprint and make sure they understand their demographic down here and hire the right people that have pull to attract retail to the development they will be fine. 

Small diner. There, you're welcome NRP. 

A small diner thats serves "home made" food with reasonable prices so that if you live or work in the area you could afford to eat there regularly.

 

Like the small diner that WAS on Canal Road and near whats now the East 9 St extension today.  It was a nice family run place where a lot of the local and construction workers would eat breakfast and lunch there regularly...

 

Good memories.

Edited October 19, 20195 yr by Larry1962

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/10/once-controversial-scranton-peninsula-development-in-flats-wins-early-design-approval-but-with-conditions.html?outputType=amp

Looks like the design should be getting some more improvements. Thank God for our planning commission.

46 minutes ago, tykaps said:

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/10/once-controversial-scranton-peninsula-development-in-flats-wins-early-design-approval-but-with-conditions.html?outputType=amp

Looks like the design should be getting some more improvements. Thank God for our planning commission.

I like Kuri’s suggestions.

Still nothing definitive from Great Lakes....

 

But what of the Scranton Peninsula property GLBC bought for an undisclosed sum in spring 2018?

 

Pat said what could become of that property is a work in progress. It could have a brewery, a taproom, space for warehousing, a canning line. The possibilities are myriad. A consideration is how the area could be developed in stages over time.

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/great-lakes-brewings-new-ceo-says-change-tap

Finally going to build a house at the "neck" of Scranton Peninsula?

 

9:30

Calendar No: 19-258 2001 Carter Road

Ward 3 Kerry McCormick

 

Lake Link Inc, LLC., owner, proposes to construct a new 3 story single family house with attached garage on a 3,000 square foot lot in a K3 Local Retail Business District. The owner appeals for relief from the strict application of the following sections of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances:

1. Section 355.04(a) which states the minimum lot area for a single family dwelling in a "K" area district is 4,800 square feet and the proposed lot area is 3,000 square feet.

2. Section 341.02(b) which states that the Approval of the City Planning Commission is required (Filed October 7, 2019)

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2019/crr11-18-2019.pdf

Here's a couple pics for this from last year. It should be noted that the homes are built to suit so who really knows how exactly they're going to look.

Have any of these 12 homes been built  or is this the first one?

41 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Have any of these 12 homes been built  or is this the first one?

This would be the first.