Actually, everything that has been done so far has been without any kind of tax credit, including the historic tax credit.  But Graystone is reconsidering the advantages of credits, and will probably have a solid decision in 30-60 days.  I believe the owner, Tony Asher, can get this done without credits if that's what he chooses.  The obvious downside is that there are so many strings attached with the credits.  Graystone believes that there are "no sacred cows" when it comes to the redevelopment - if they want to tear down some dilapidated buildings to make way for modern parking structures, then they want to be free to do just that. 

 

Ah, I guess that would depend on what your definition of "dilapidated" is.

 

Tear down a building for a parking structure isn't progress in my book.  I just hope your example, is just that...an example, not what graystone has in mind as far as redeveloping the area.

I think that East 36th Street needs more lighting.

Probably only ones that I would consider a cannidate for razing are the low rise "green roof" warehouses on E34 (functionaly useful and being used, but perhaps not for long range mixed re-use), the wedged triangular building (i dont see how this can be effectively re-used), along with some non-orginal loading bay structures. Other than those few things, taking down the other stuff takes away from alot of what tyler village is.

GRACIESDAD:

* Thanks for the comments.

* Congrats on the new tenants and on beautiful work in the Digiknow and Ante Up Audio spaces !!

* The historic tax codes are a HUGE economic incentive.  Actually, I feel that it would be economically impossible for Graystone to completely renovate Tyler Village without the tax credits (unless Graystone wants to lose money).  This is because you folks are probably leasing space for much less than $10 spf.  In my humble opinion, for a project of your scope to economically fly w/o any tax credits, you would need a kick ass occupancy rate with rents over $15 psf.  This is something that most arts and tech company can't pay. 

* But, to argue against the tax credits, a big problem with the tax credits is that 98% of the architects in town do not thoroughly understand the tax codes and would not be able to properly fill out the paperwork and provide the oversite needed to qualify for the credits.  For example, consider the mess at the former WKYC Building (Rockwell condos near East 6th) that was largely caused by architects that mis-analyzed the credits.

* Best of luck!!

i believe that if you use historic tax credits for housing they would hafta be for rent only...so maybe he plans for sale condos there.

The tax credits allow you to turn the apartments in condos in 5-6 years.

 

KEEP THE HONEST FEEDBACK COMING !!!!  It's extremely helpful to see how the public views this project, and its difficult to get an unbiased opinion sometimes.

 

 

I think you will find almost all of the opinions here are biased... luckly the bias is in your favor.

 

Thanks for the updates.

thanks for the feedback.  Smackem81 and MyTwoSense bring up good points about maintaining, or bringing back, the architectural and historical integrity of the buildings.  The only structures we would consider razing are the overhanging deck platforms, visible when you pull into the complex to get more parking.  The non-original docks would be softened and modified - i.e - the building that DigiKnow occupies has 5 loading docks - only 1 or 2 are needed for a 7-story office building.  Greenspaces are planned when the tenant mix shifts enough that truck traffic is minimized.  Sky and Gavster - I have to do my research on the tax credits - my job doesnt involve that, but interested in hearing what you know.  Our COO has the experience on the planning and financing end of development, my end is the leasing function.

 

On other news, look for some general photos of the complex soon. Oh, and Sky - I left Cimperman a voice mail about the lack of lighting on East 6th Street.

 

Welcome to the forum, Graciesdad. So glad to hear about the progress (I'm pretty much Tyler's neighbor, over on 33rd).

 

The only disappointment I have is that the residential component is being delayed for so long. Granted, I think the demand in this neighborhood will increase dramatically over the next 6 - 10 years and thus increase potential for higher net revenue. But I have heard a LOT of people express interest in living at Tyler Village in the nearer future; it would be great if Phase 3 could come online in chunks, rewarding people who buy in earlier with a lower price point. I think this makes the sell for the remaining units easier, and anything that increases pedestrian traffic within the complex for a longer period of the day is likely to make the Village more appealing to restaurants, art galleries, etc.

 

Frankly, I'm pretty positive I'd be a candidate for buying in 3 - 4 yrs. (depending on the price point), but I don't know that I'll hold out for 6. Still, I am very pleased to see all that is happening here and look forward to continued updates.

a great looking complex with the potential to have a major impact on that neighborhood. thanks for all the info and updates graciesdad!!

GRACIESDAD:

* Thanks for the comments.

* Congrats on the new tenants and on beautiful work in the Digiknow and Ante Up Audio spaces !!

* The historic tax codes are a HUGE economic incentive.  Actually, I feel that it would be economically impossible for Graystone to completely renovate Tyler Village without the tax credits (unless Graystone wants to lose money).  This is because you folks are probably leasing space for much less than $10 spf.  In my humble opinion, for a project of your scope to economically fly w/o any tax credits, you would need a kick ass occupancy rate with rents over $15 psf.  This is something that most arts and tech company can't pay. 

* But, to argue against the tax credits, a big problem with the tax credits is that 98% of the architects in town do not thoroughly understand the tax codes and would not be able to properly fill out the paperwork and provide the oversite needed to qualify for the credits.  For example, consider the mess at the former WKYC Building (Rockwell condos near East 6th) that was largely caused by architects that mis-analyzed the credits.

* Best of luck!!

 

Nail on the head.

 

The tuckpointing alone on these buildings could sink even the deepest of pockets. I couldn't imagine a project like Tyler getting done without using the tax credits available.

definitely...i was working on the University Club (Myers University) building some three years ago on euclid, which used historic tax credits.  that after we finished doing all the trim, base, crown moulding, etc... on the whole third floor...they made us tear it all down saying it too closely matched the existing trim work...i says to myself these people are on crack. i was really good tedious work all gone to the shithouse cause the architect didnt know.

This complex would mesh very nicely with the proposed "District of Design" a little further uptown. Very happy to see this gaining momentum; it reminds me of the old BF Goodrich complex in Akron that was redeveloped much the same way. However, this could be so much more.

Wouldn't it be something if Hyland Software could be lured in from Westlake? I know they've got a couple hundred people there and are hiring more.

Hyland Software:

 

With how much the Hyland family moved around while the CEO was a kid, I'm very happy that this 35 yr-old entrepeneur has settled in Cleveland. Now if we could just get him to move downtown.

This complex would mesh very nicely with the proposed "District of Design" a little further uptown.

 

Actually, it's part of the District of Design. The District stretches from about E. 12th to the railroad tracks (E. 39th-ish), and from St. Clair to Prospect.

^^Even better; this could be the "anchor project" that gets the rest of it going. It seems most of the housing & development hoopla is downtown and the near west side (OC, D-S, Tremont, etc) its nice to see some things happening on the near east side (not counting UC).

Hyland Software:

 

With how much the Hyland family moved around while the CEO was a kid, I'm very happy that this 35 yr-old entrepeneur has settled in Cleveland. Now if we could just get him to move downtown.

 

My wife works at Hyland. I wouldn't bank on them leaving their current building anytime soon.  Its pretty new and I think they already have a plan to expand it.

 

And AJ Hyland isn't the entrepeneur, really.  His older brother, Packy, started the company with the current CIO.  Packy left to start a new company, Workflow.com, and AJ took over.  So really, Packy is the entrepeneur.

Tyler Village is coming along. This project is being done much more organically than some of the others (out of cash flow), but there have been some pretty big success' of late.

 

If you drive by you'll see the patio garden is having the finishing touches put on, SAW just moved into their renovated space under digiknow, and there are two spaces above digiknow being built out for high end office users as well. They are also planning on cleaning up the face of the two Superior buildings pretty soon (pointing etc..).

I'll load some pictures on this after I take them today. but Tyler's patio garden on Superior between the big building where DigiKnow is and the small office building is done. Complete with nice landscaping, wireless access and a park bench.

 

As mentioned, a county service SAW moved their offices in, a bio-tech group signed a lease for the top floor of the DigiKnow building (building 44).. that should make some press soon because they're coming in from the burbs to be in Cleveland. APG Furniture's space on the same floor of 44 is coming along and will be a show-stopper when completed.

 

The next step is going to be developing the North end of the campus and on 36th street where they already have a restaurant/bar set to open in August. The space above maybe where the live/work stuff comes available.

Awesome stuff. Thanks for the report!

^^ Yeah, wonderful update ... can't wait for the pics. Where exactly is the patio garden? I can't believe I've somehow missed this.

Courtyard views from inside the complex and on Superior.

 

 

 

7th floor space being re-plastered for new tenant, those skylights are going to be opened up soon.

 

 

more stuff to come as it happens.

 

WW

Those pictures look GREAT. Thanks for all the great info!!!

I wonder what the size of those floor plates is?

 

goodness the creative things I could do with that!

I wonder what the size of those floor plates is?

 

goodness the creative things I could do with that!

 

just a hair under 11,000 SF. There's a row of old-time lockers separating the two spaces on the 7th floor that also have skylights overhead (where else?). Here's a picture of that:

 

11k?  oh god...my palms are sweating. 

 

I want to get my power tools and head down there and build something!

Ha! that's nothing, you should see the space on the west side of the campus where the re-development isn't due for a while.. talk about your open floor plates!

Ha! that's nothing, you should see the space on the west side of the campus where the re-development isn't due for a while.. talk about your open floor plates!

Tease!

 

I could create a palace worthy of Queen (don't even think about making a snarky comment!) on one of those floors!

holy crap willow that is an outstanding space.

What an outstanding redevelopment- thanks WW!

no problem. this is a project I've only been peripherally involved with for the last year, now I'm more involved with the day to day stuff. Feel free to hit me up with a PM if you have any questions.

 

WW

oh that courtyard is cute.  whenever we have our double dutch practices there i always wish they could do more with all the less used paved areas

oh that courtyard is cute.  whenever we have our double dutch practices there i always wish they could do more with all the less used paved areas

 

Basically we want people out and about on the Tyler campus. Offering a park bench under a free wireless cloud is one way to this end. Adding storefront retail to Superior as well as down 36th street is another way. Eventually moving the truck traffic from inside the complex and on 36th street over to 34th is one more way.

 

The paved areas currently have a ton of truck and car traffic on them with some foot traffic. We'd like to see more foot traffic.

here's a quick photo I took of the restaurant going in at St.Clair end of 36th street. Mid-August is the plan for opening. New windows, store front, etc.. inside has the old Factory feel with a cooler twist.

 

^Cool.  Can you give the name and type of the restaurant?

actually, I believe the name is the same: the Factory.

 

It's going to have higher end pub food I believe.

Good report Weepinwillow and nice pics.  Some friends of mine saw space recently at the complex through the Emerging Cleveland bus tour hosted by the CSU College of Urban Planning/Affairs.  Said the Ante-Up recording studio is pretty wild inside.  Apparently, there's talk of a radio station looking at space there from what I hear.  Also mentioned was a new photography studio that does work for "Ohio's Next Top Model".

 

And its great to have more room for zaceman's double dutch practice !!!

 

So a little update on the Tyler project: there is a newly signed lease for a production studio, a deal pending for a mixed media group as well as some serious interest from an out of town radio station.

 

As for some of the physical developments, here are a couple of photo's:

 

 

Buildings will be color coordinated, this is the bridge connecting the small office building with DigiKnow's space..

 

 

zacman's going to be pleased... we're ripping out unused dock's for more greenspace inside the complex (just on the other side of the existing courtyard).

 

 

new windows for the top floor of building 44.

 

I didn't get a picture, but if you drive by the Superior Ave side, you'll notice the brick is being cleaned up as well.

yea i just saw the color blocks on the pedestrian bridge the other day... i think it looks really great.  i really like the organic nature this is getting developed because i know of a similar building complex in Akron that is completely redone, but it completely ignores the potential at the pedestrian level. 

This whole project is really exciting! Thanks for the pics!

second that, thanks for updates.

You guys are drawing a really exciting tenant mix, as well.

Wow, what an amazing complex.  The late professor Eric Johannesen in his 1976 book about historic Cleveland architecture (1876-1976) had an extensive section on the ornate nature of our old insdustrial architecture and, if I recall (I'll have to go into storage and dust it off), there's an extensive section on the Tyler plant...  Cleveland's seemingly got so many of these old industrial butes around town but sadly, some aren't being developed enough prior to meeting the wrecking ball -- ones on Detroit at W95th and Euclid & Lakeview have recently succumbed; and these could have been TOD-revived... Let's hope a grand project like Tyler Village can teach that such adaptive reuse need not be confined to the Warehouse District.  Oh yeah, there is Chicle and Slavic Village; but Tyler Village appears to dwarf those guys.

we have a beat up steel wall on one of the buildings in the back of the complex right now. The spaces in that area have little to no access on the upper floors.. so anyway, city architecture put this together.

 

 

It's a glass wall and glass elevator. This would give us both access to all floors and bring much needed natural light into the space. We love the idea of mixing the old with the new and hope to start work on this project soon!

Sigh.  Why does anyone select City Architecture for anything?  The contrast of new and old opens up a lot of opportunities for design, but it is horribly executed from what I can see from the "rendering."  It looks more art deco than anything.  Hardly contemporary.

I like the concept of adding a glass portion (even if it clashes with the original brick structure), but like w28th, I don't know if I care for how it looks (at least in the rendering). It seems sort of "jazzed-up parking garage stairwell" :|

 

"Why does anyone select City Architecture for anything?"

 

Years of experience, an extensive portfolio with a few well-done (though maybe not envelope-pushing) projects, and I'm going to guess a demeanor that's a little less caustic than some other architects in this town. :roll:

Having worked with City Arch, I can vouch that their customer service is very good, there ability to negotiate community concerns is good, they understand how to make a product that fits what buyers want, and they understand how to fit that into the surrounding urban context very well, to the benefit of both the existing and the new.  Just because they don't quench some people's thirst for novelty doesn't in any meaningful way make their architecture bad.  I'd rather have a city full of City Arch projects than Rem Koolhas' self aggrandizement. 

 

Why the hell must every building be "pushing the envelope"?  Just to suit the whims of a self proclaimed cultural elite?  What about just making an attractive building and an attractive neighborhood that people will like to spend time in?  What's more important? 

 

I'm not that keen on the idea of architect as "artiste".  I'm kind of sick of "starchitecture" and all the lemmings that think that is what is going to make a great city.  Am I excited to see what MOCA and CIA come up with for their new signature buildings?  Yeah, but I'm more excited about the building and rebuilding of neighorhoods, mostly made up of ordinary buildings, that are going to rebuild the fabric of our community to be more livable and sustainable.

bottom line is the architects had a wide open opportunity and they went with very ordinary on that elevator.

 

but who really knows its just a rendering at this point. in fact more often it's the jazzy renderings that disappoint.

 

i dont think anyone envisions starchitecture, but so far that just looks bland and off the shelf. even if it come out that way it wouldnt matter if it was still industrial, but it might now in terms of the coveted and nebulous 'hipster cred' in a venture like this. we'll see.

 

I don't think architecture has to always be "pushing the envelope" to be interesting. But I would rather have memorable architecture any day compared to a piece of crap cookie-cutter design that doesn't have one ounce of thought or -- oh my goodness -- INVENTION or INSPIRATION behind it. I don't necessarily want a building that strokes an architect's ego, but in order to be fresh and new, conventions have to be challenged and rethought. I say hell yeah to that.

eh.. can't please everyone.. I'm just sharing what's happening at Tyler, like it or or don't.