October 19, 20159 yr ^Wow....clearly this Steiner guy has missed his calling. He should be running as a GOP candidate for president. He reminds of another idiot developer who says ridiculous things.
October 19, 20159 yr The opening of IKEA [glow=red,2,300]Liberty Center[/glow] just might save Cincinnati from the nation-wide economic downturn. -Jack Atherton
October 21, 20159 yr From everything I've seen, Liberty Center is a step down from The Greene in Dayton. Cheaper looking faux aesthetics, some ridiculous barn themed crap and a bevy of mediocre mall stores. There isn't one nightlife option similar to Bar Louie or fill in the blank chain bar. Here is the directory: http://www.liberty-center.com/Portals/0/pdf/lc_directory_oct_19_2015.pdf
October 21, 20159 yr From everything I've seen, Liberty Center is a step down from The Greene in Dayton. Cheaper looking faux aesthetics, some ridiculous barn themed crap and a bevy of mediocre mall stores. There isn't one nightlife option similar to Bar Louie or fill in the blank chain bar. Here is the directory: http://www.liberty-center.com/Portals/0/pdf/lc_directory_oct_19_2015.pdf While other poster(s) call this place the greatest thing since sliced bread, I agree. Banana and White House Black Market are the most upscale stores there. The fact that they "modeled" this after Easton should be an embarrassment to Easton. I'll continue going to Kenwood when in town. This development is not meant to be a downtown, it's meant to service the middle income earners in the area.
October 21, 20159 yr The only thing this development does is prove that even the suburbs want to be urban.
October 22, 20159 yr I thought this was interesting from an article on Cincinnati.com I wonder if the the president of the Cincinnati Tea Party would favor Mass Transit up to Liberty Township because of all the gridlock?? Source: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/business/libertycenter/2015/10/21/mega-malls-mega-impacts-good-worrisome/73579658/ ""It's a concern for many of us because I think it will wreak havoc on our normal life. It will totally change our traffic patterns, which are already overloaded," says Becker, who is president of the Cincinnati Tea Party and a 15-year resident of her neighborhood located south of Liberty Center."
October 22, 20159 yr I also like how the last line is from a guy worried about the 200 apartments that will cause all the traffic not the people visiting the mall..
October 22, 20159 yr This is a really interesting quote on a few levels: "It will wreak havoc on our normal life."
October 22, 20159 yr Liberty Center makes long-awaited debut The new outdoor mall included in a mixed-use development in Liberty Township will open its doors to the public today. An official ribbon cutting ceremony to mark the debut of Liberty Center will be held at 9 a.m. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/10/liberty-center-makes-long-awaited-debut.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 25, 20159 yr http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/editorials/2015/10/24/editorial-liberty-center-bridge-powerful-metro-area/74556808/
October 11, 20168 yr Liberty Center developer planning additional apartments, hotels The developer of the $350 million Liberty Center in Butler County continues to work on plans for additional development in the initial 65-acre project. Yaromir Steiner, CEO of Steiner + Associates, said the Columbus-based real estate developer is “actively planning” one or two additional hotels at the Liberty Township development. Steiner also said they are looking at as many as 60 more apartments in the first phase of Liberty Center. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/10/11/liberty-center-developer-planning-additional.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
August 3, 20177 yr http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/new-york-lender-raises-concerns-about-liberty-center-occupancy-rates Liberty Center hovers at 80% occupancy and risks defaulting on its $160 million construction loan. You have to wonder if a default releases the tenants from their leases. If so, we could see a spectacular collapse of this development.
August 3, 20177 yr I think another difference between this development and Easton is that Easton knew there was a retail void to be filled in the vicinity at the time (late '90s) whereas 15 years later you can't just put something up in a cornfield far from population centers and expect to hit a homer.
August 3, 20177 yr http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/new-york-lender-raises-concerns-about-liberty-center-occupancy-rates Liberty Center hovers at 80% occupancy and risks defaulting on its $160 million construction loan. You have to wonder if a default releases the tenants from their leases. If so, we could see a spectacular collapse of this development. I think that kind of clause is unusual but not unheard of. More likely is a vacancy percentage clause or "anchor closure" stating if an anchor or certain number of anchors (or even sub-anchors) closes then the tenant can vacate. That's why when the two old Amelia Krogers combined to form Marketplace that the inline tenants could leave the strip mall.
August 3, 20177 yr http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/new-york-lender-raises-concerns-about-liberty-center-occupancy-rates Liberty Center hovers at 80% occupancy and risks defaulting on its $160 million construction loan. You have to wonder if a default releases the tenants from their leases. If so, we could see a spectacular collapse of this development. No, if Steiner can't make the construction loan payoff then the prime lender just takes the development back. Sometimes there are multiple lenders and a receiver is appointed. Also the tenant retailers could be doing well and have no interest in trying to get out of a lease. Steiner might have over planned a little for retail. “We are regularly in dialogue with the sponsors and borrower about strategies for improving the occupancy,” Rothstein said. “I think to date, the anchors are doing well, the entertainment components of the retail, whether they be movie theaters, restaurant or other entertainment components … are doing fine.” But it’s “a mixed bag” when it comes to clothing and specialty retailers at Liberty Center.
August 3, 20177 yr This development should have never happened. I truly don't think Steiner realized that Deerfield Commons (whatever the mall with the Whole Foods up there is called) existed. I sat in some early meetings at Steiner HQ when I was working for a company that was doing an overhaul of the signage at Easton, and I remember these boards showing where Liberty Center was in relation to other retail in greater Cincinnati. They had the frickin Florence Mall but not Deerfield or the other lifestyle center up that way, Fairfield Commons. Maybe they thought those weren't competitors, but I definitely think they are. They should have known, the money is off 71, not 75, and the vast majority of Greater Cincinnati considers the Liberty Center area to be the middle of nowhere. Someone from anywhere south of Sharonville would have no reason to go there at all.
August 3, 20177 yr They should make Liberty Center the northern terminus of a new BRT route into Downtown Cincinnati. That would make Liberty Center both a park-and-ride, as well as a TOD.
August 3, 20177 yr When I was driving for Uber right when it started, I drove a guy from his workplace somewhere in West Chester to his apartment at Liberty Center. He said he was separated from his wife but thought they were going to get back together. The kids still lived with his wife in their house somewhere in the area. I suppose living in an apartment in Liberty Center as a separated single man aged 50 or so isn't quite as sad as an ordinary complex, but there was still something really sad about it.
August 3, 20177 yr I'm depressed just reading that...I can't even imagine how hard it would be for someone to actually truly meet someone as a resident of a place like Liberty Center. You're so disconnected from everything. It really is isolated and not at all a part of any place. That and it's a cheaply built pile of trash that had water damage when I went there in brand new buildings.
August 4, 20177 yr Another big difference between Columbus and the new idea of the combined Dayton/Cincinnati metro is that suburban retail development after 1990 was a net positive overall for Columbus while in Cincinnati and Dayton the results were mixed to bad. Yes in Columbus we saw Northland and Westland die due to new development and Eastland significantly weakened (forget City Center, downtown malls don't work), overall we wound up better off after Tuttle, Polaris and Easton unless you live in the southern half of the Uncool Crescent. Sure there were a few misfires such as New Market Mall and Scarborough Mall, but they were arrogant-for-the-time anchorless malls. I'm new to the Dayton retail scene and while my employees often speak of the death of Salem Mall it wasn't The Greene that killed it. The Greene sounds like an overall positive for the metro. I haven't experienced Fairfield Commons yet. Dayton Mall (where one of my stores is located -- I bought it in April) took a little damage from Liberty Center and I don't appreciate that. Again The Greene is fine despite being closer but it just seems Liberty Center's retail component didn't add anything and only took from the region. Dayton Mall is still in very fine shape considering the 2017 retail scene. See, in Columbus, almost everything from the '60s and '70s is SO over but in Dayton/Cincinnati that's not true. Dayton Mall, Eastgate, Kenwood, Florence, and Northgate are still chugging along with Tri-County not dead yet. Forest Fair was completely unnecessary along with Crestview Hills Mall and Anderson "Mall?" (though their open air replacements do OK). All they did was take until their deaths. So when you try to apply Columbus principles to Daytonnati it's easy to get burned since Columbus keeps adding outsiders with new attitudes while the other does not. My grandpappy doesn't shop at Westland anymore but yours still shops at Eastgate. This is not to say that Liberty Center is doomed at all. Lots of people still live at the Continent in Columbus, and bars and offices populate NOTL. They are both generating plenty of non-store income. Had they put Liberty Center closer to more people instead of just looking at income numbers on a sheet (a potentially very dangerous mistake when doing retail business in cities other than your home area) I'm still not sure what the results would be. When you look at retail properties, the initial one-page briefing sheet they hand you always includes income numbers from the immediate area and a little further away. The single-thread user to remain nameless was quick to trot out the $105k income number. As a retailer that doesn't want to see that number so high when selecting a location, I spend more of my time looking at the general attitude of the area, what kind of cars people drive, the way they dress, how far they are willing to drive to shop, how isolated of an existence they have... feels. I can't tell you the income numbers from my locations offhand, but I know they're not $105K. Over $80k and I'm done. Too much money spent on boats, race cars, horses, season tickets, custom things, art and vacations at that level.
August 4, 20177 yr When I was driving for Uber right when it started, I drove a guy from his workplace somewhere in West Chester to his apartment at Liberty Center. He said he was separated from his wife but thought they were going to get back together. The kids still lived with his wife in their house somewhere in the area. I suppose living in an apartment in Liberty Center as a separated single man aged 50 or so isn't quite as sad as an ordinary complex, but there was still something really sad about it. Probably "her" house now.
September 12, 20177 yr Trustees frustrated by slow Liberty Center development http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/liberty-township/2017/09/12/trustees-frustrated-slow-liberty-center-development/655748001/
November 30, 20177 yr http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/liberty-center-falling-short-on-revenue-pledged-to-bond-payments
December 21, 20177 yr Indoor skydiving coming to Liberty Center An indoor skydiving attraction is coming to Liberty Center next year. iFly Indoor Skydiving is scheduled to open its first Ohio location at Liberty Center, the $350 million mixed-use complex along Interstate 75. The indoor skydiving attraction will be located next to Dick’s Sporting Goods. iFly has flown more than 8 million people in a dozen countries and at seas since launching its vertical wind tunnel attractions in 1998. The company has 67 facilities operating worldwide, with 28 in the U.S. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/12/21/indoor-skydiving-coming-to-liberty-center.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 7, 20187 yr Library coming to Liberty Center The MidPointe Library System, a library chain that has served the Greater Cincinnati area for more than 100 years, will open its fifth physical branch in Liberty Township this fall. Construction will begin this summer on the second floor of the Foundry Building at Liberty Center, a $350 million mixed-use development along Interstate 75 in Butler County. The 3,671-square-foot space is designed by Mark Thurnauer of Glaserworks Architecture, the same Cincinnati-based firm that oversaw MidPointe's $3 million renovation project for a more than 10,000-square-foot Trenton branch that opened in August 2016. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/07/library-coming-to-liberty-center.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 6, 20196 yr Liberty Center wants to offer drink-while-shopping option The owners of Liberty Center have requested that the mega mixed-use development be declared a Designated Outdoor Refreshment Area, meaning outdoor drinking could be done in certain areas, the Journal-News reports. If approved, people who visit places like the Kona Grill, Cooper’s Hawk and other restaurants in the Liberty Township center could drink alcoholic beverages beyond the doors of the eateries and in stores while shopping. The application, filed Feb. 1 with township officials, said the designation fits within the township’s comprehensive plan and will boost economic development. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/02/06/liberty-center-wants-to-offer-drink-while-shopping.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 28, 20196 yr Liberty Center in danger of default: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/liberty-center-debt-now-classified-as-troubled
February 28, 20196 yr I had the misfortune of going to Liberty Center in December, and that place is a hot mess. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's fully abandoned in 10 years.
February 28, 20196 yr So what ever happen to SAF who use to tout this center like the reincarnation of the Magnificent Mile, Fifth Avenue and Rodeo Drive in Butler County? I am assuming he had something to do with social media marketing for the developer and has long moved on to hype hair care products.
February 28, 20196 yr I really can't believe what a disaster this development turned out to be. The quality of construction is laughable, especially when you look at how polished the Greene and Easton are. They really, really dropped the ball.
February 28, 20196 yr The idea itself is a good thing. I know Liberty Center isn't well-done, but it is a nice way to introduce the concept of (I know this is a stretch) "urban living" to the people living in the burbs. Even out there, there is a growing interest in walkable communities, and this technically fits the bill, even though you can't enter or leave said walkable campus without a car. The only thing I've ever been there for is Bed Bath & Beyond with the wife, and dinner at Northstar (which is easily the best part of Liberty Center). Austin Landing is moving onto phase 2 and expanding. They are located in an area much less dense than WC and Liberty. The difference is that they have office tenants and Kroger as the anchors instead of retail/some apartments. There are too many traditional 'discretionary' retail anchors out in northern Cincinnati for Liberty to be anything other than a weekend stop/date night for some WC/Liberty/Mason residents. Weekday numbers are important for the long-term success of tenants, and LC isn't close enough to major employers to bring in a lunch crowd. As different as they are, it is the same basic problem we are discussing in the Mt Adams thread. How do you drive weekday traffic?
February 28, 20196 yr Austin Landing's layout is terrible. It's like an RPG town. It's a lot closer to Actual Dayton than Liberty Center is to anything else though and I think that helps enormously.
February 28, 20196 yr Liberty Center and Center of Cincinnati were built in the wrong locations. If they switched places, both would be successful right now.
February 28, 20196 yr 33 minutes ago, taestell said: Liberty Center and Center of Cincinnati were build in the wrong locations. If they switched places, both would be successful right now. Center of Cincinnati/Oakley Station should have been residential. We could have had 500 new single-family homes inside the city limits and 500 apartments. Instead we got a Sam's Club, a PetSmart, and a movie theater.
February 28, 20196 yr 6 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: Center of Cincinnati/Oakley Station should have been residential. We could have had 500 new single-family homes inside the city limits and 500 apartments. Instead we got a Sam's Club, a PetSmart, and a movie theater. ^ I mostly agree, but throw in a few retail spots on the major corners to make it mixed-use. This site could have easily been Cincinnati's Stapleton. But, even if we took the existing Liberty Center and plopped it down where the Meijer and Sam's Club are located, it would be more successful than it is in Liberty Township.
March 4, 20196 yr On 2/28/2019 at 2:02 PM, ryanlammi said: The Sam's Club is closed, I think It is now an At Home
March 7, 20196 yr Shoppers will soon be able to drink at Liberty Center Shoppers at one of Greater Cincinnati’s largest retail centers will soon be able to make purchases while sipping on alcoholic beverages. Liberty Township trustees have approved Liberty Center’s application to create a Designated Outdoor Refreshment Area at the mixed-use development. The new designation will go into effect this spring once the application is processed by the state of Ohio. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/06/shoppers-will-soon-be-able-to-drink-at-liberty.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 7, 20196 yr 7 hours ago, GCrites80s said: I don't see why a DORA is necessary on all-private property. There is actually a dedicated, e.g quasi-public right-of-way, street network on the Liberty Center Formerly "Mr Sparkle"
May 9, 20196 yr Cincinnati's first indoor skydiving venue just opened The Cincinnati region's first indoor skydiving venue just opened its doors at the $350 million Liberty Center development. iFly Indoor Skydiving opened its doors on May 8 at 7100 Foundry Row in Liberty Township, next door to Dick's Sporting Goods. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/05/09/cincinnatis-first-indoor-skydiving-venue-just.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 18, 20195 yr Is the liberty township mall really struggling that bad? The developers should've just built this in oakley in the first place...
July 18, 20195 yr I have literally never had any desire to go there, and I'm sure many others feel the same
July 18, 20195 yr 11 minutes ago, seaswan said: I have literally never had any desire to go there, and I'm sure many others feel the same Its not a bad concept. An urban indoor/outoor mall. Im not sure what could be the root of the financial issue other than maybe liberty is a bit disconnected from the rest of greater cincinnati and is a somewhat long drive. I for instance would go more often, but it's easily a 40 minute drive for me if not longer. Compared to kenwood which is 15 - 20 min max.
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