The land has likely been under contract for a long time, but hasn't been officially transferred yet. Land can often be under contract for years before a purchase like this. Steiner would have probably had to pay a fee to hold the land for that long, but I'm sure they haven't been negotiating prices up until now.

So after all this time no building permit has been issued yet? lol

 

They also don't own all of the land yet either...

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/02/24/steiner-still-needs-to-buy-land-for.html

 

 

According to the article, they close on the final land purchase on Friday.  It's normal for developers to do this.  Why pay property taxes until you're getting income from the property?  As the article says, site work is well under way.  Seeing all the heavy equipment there is quite a sight.  It opens in a year and a half.  Looking sooo forward to having a decent place to shop in the northern 'burbs.  It's a long time coming!

Although I'm indifferent to this project since it attracts a very different cliental than those who would want to shop Downtown and in more urban neighborhoods, how is this any different than any other lifestyle center? They were a dime a dozen in the 90s and early 2000s throughout the US and most places have moved on to newer and better ideas. It seems silly to create such an auto-necessary design when, once again, 2013 saw the 17th year in a row of a decrease or stagnation in per capita miles driven and record online sales for the types of items you'll find in the types of stores that will be here. It all just seems so very stuck in the (recent) past. If it was 2004, not 2014, I'd understand. But as it is now this development seems very reliant on a lifestyle that is going to the wayside all across the country. Mind you, I know this won't be immediate so I don't doubt this will make money at first, but as time goes on and this change, one unlikely to turn around again, in the way we move around seems like it will cause problems for developments like this and the residential neighborhoods which support it.

They probably aren't looking at 30 year timelines, they are looking at 10 year timelines. For 10 years this will likely make the developers a lot of money and they will sell it to someone. They don't care about long term viability of this development.

It's different in that it includes residential and office uses. If it weren't for the enormous moat of parking around it, it'd actually be urban. It is therefore adaptable to changing circumstances, as it could grow into its own parking lot.

To the Apple discussion earlier - looks like the Greene will be getting an Apple store

They probably aren't looking at 30 year timelines, they are looking at 10 year timelines. For 10 years this will likely make the developers a lot of money and they will sell it to someone. They don't care about long term viability of this development.

 

This!

 

Real estate developers are basically looking to make a quick buck, though quick means a timeline of about 5-10 years. They build and plan the development do things to increase its value, then sell. So 15 years from now when the development starts to decline or is in need of serious reinvestment or renovation the original developers are long gone. Certain retail development s, typically the ones with unique to market stores (Kenwood, Easton, Beachwood) are the ones that stay great.

Done.......    http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/developer-buys-rest-of-land-for-mega-liberty-twp-r/nd5nW/

Thanks for the update SAF.

Another update:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/liberty-twp-mega-retail-project-misses-another-dea/nd5nN/

They probably aren't looking at 30 year timelines, they are looking at 10 year timelines. For 10 years this will likely make the developers a lot of money and they will sell it to someone. They don't care about long term viability of this development.

 

It is impossible to get 30 year loans. You can't even get 10 year loans in commercial real estate on developments like this. It you are super successful a developer

might be in the black 4 years after construction is complete. However there are many REITS that hold onto their developments forever.

What do you mean by that? I don't want an investment in a REIT that's a bunch of dead strip malls. I realize that's not as much of a concern in Cincinnati right now but it sure is in other cities.

Liberty Center's upcoming hotel announced

130-room hotel to open in 2015

 

As prep work continues on the Liberty Center mixed-use development, the name of the hotel that'll be part of the property is now known.

 

The newest AC Hotels by Marriott location will open at the development in 2015.

 

"Each AC Hotel unites a sleek, sophisticated, cosmopolitan look with the latest in technology and the best in amenities that travelers expect from a Marriott brand," Steiner + Associates said in a news release Tuesday.

 

Cont

Wasn't that supposed to go into the old SCPA Building?

Yep. And as far as I know that's still the plan.

Makes the SCPA's score of the brand seem less noteworthy. Oh well, the contrast should be interesting.

Liberty Center's upcoming hotel announced

130-room hotel to open in 2015

 

As prep work continues on the Liberty Center mixed-use development, the name of the hotel that'll be part of the property is now known.

 

The newest AC Hotels by Marriott location will open at the development in 2015.

 

"Each AC Hotel unites a sleek, sophisticated, cosmopolitan look with the latest in technology and the best in amenities that travelers expect from a Marriott brand," Steiner + Associates said in a news release Tuesday.

 

Cont

 

The SCPA location was supposed to open in "fall 2014" which seems extremely unlikely since major construction has not yet started.

That's the same thing I thought, when I read it.  All of a sudden we'll have 2 AC hotels?  Guess it is continued confidence in our resurgence. 

Liberty Center keeps getting better and better.  I'll bet the location at the SCPA will be scrapped.  Prosperous suburban areas are so much easier to deal with than urban cities with their outrageous rules and taxes.  And for the record, as it's been alluded to multiple times, I do not work for Steiner.  I don't even live by the site.  I live near Kings Island.  I just love retail.  And love the northern 'burbs.  Of course, I studied hard so that I don't have to work a retail job.

You may not work for them, but you're certainly spewing their PR garbage as if you did. You'll bet the SCPA site will be scrapped based on, what, exactly? That property is in one of the hottest real estate areas of the region and is right by the region's cultural assets. They've gone through the historic tax credit process already. Why would they do that if they weren't actually interested in redeveloping that property? The northern burbs are fine if that's what you like, but pretending they're anything other than generic and Anywhere USA requires you to be absent of reality. Outrageous rules and taxes? Please, elaborate on this unfounded claim, please. I'm legitimately curious what you were specifically thinking of when typing that out.

Liberty Center keeps getting better and better.  I'll bet the location at the SCPA will be scrapped.  Prosperous suburban areas are so much easier to deal with than urban cities with their outrageous rules and taxes.  And for the record, as it's been alluded to multiple times, I do not work for Steiner.  I don't even live by the site.  I live near Kings Island.  I just love retail.  And love the northern 'burbs.  Of course, I studied hard so that I don't have to work a retail job.

 

I'm sorry, I thought about it and what I originally posted was a harsh aside, even if I do want a pedestrian bridge from this development to Cincy Childre's Liberty / Lakota East.

 

But I am going to call you out on your attitude (specifically the points I bolded). It's horrific. A mature adult would never say something like what you just did. You're picking a fight.

 

 

 

Basically in your post, you imply

1.  Urban areas are not prosperous

2.  Urban areas are hard to navigate

3.  Urban areas have "outrageous" rules

4.  Urban areas have higher taxes => but let me ask in return, what do those tax dollars pay for? A nicer community.

5.  Educated people don't work retail

 

 

 

... all while not providing even a trace of a fact to support your claims. You provide the facts, fine, make the claims. But for now I'm calling slander.

Why would anyone want to redevelop a property into a hotel at a school location deemed inadequate and replaced by a new school? Just doesn't make sense to me. Tear the damn thing down and build a new structure worthy of being labeled a hotel.

Because it not being suited for a school doesn't mean it's not suited for anything else, it's a freaking gorgeous structure, is historic, and is the anchor of that neighborhood. But you wouldn't understand that if you think that demolishing such a building is even an option. What makes a city interesting is what makes it unique from other places. The old SCPA is a very unique, iconic structure. A new hotel would not be. It would look like every other new hotel across the country, regardless of how nice. Look at every single building in this development. They're all boring, generic, faux old garbage boxes. In 100 year not a single human being is going to think Liberty Center (if it even still exists that is) is architecturally interesting or important. But the old SCPA already is and will continue to be an anchor of that architectural era for the region of Cincinnati. Don't be so daft to think tearing it down would be appropriate.

Liberty Center keeps getting better and better.  I'll bet the location at the SCPA will be scrapped.  Prosperous suburban areas are so much easier to deal with than urban cities with their outrageous rules and taxes.  And for the record, as it's been alluded to multiple times, I do not work for Steiner.  I don't even live by the site.  I live near Kings Island.  I just love retail.  And love the northern 'burbs.  Of course, I studied hard so that I don't have to work a retail job.

 

Dumbest thing I've read on UO

 

Why would anyone want to redevelop a property into a hotel at a school location deemed inadequate and replaced by a new school? Just doesn't make sense to me. Tear the damn thing down and build a new structure worthy of being labeled a hotel.

 

Second dumbest thing. And both dumb things on the same day! The lack of imagination by these two posters is breathtaking. 

 

 

Why would anyone want to redevelop a property into a hotel at a school location deemed inadequate and replaced by a new school? Just doesn't make sense to me. Tear the damn thing down and build a new structure worthy of being labeled a hotel.

 

I'm presuming this is an elaborate b!tchslap to SAF.

Why would anyone want to redevelop a property into a hotel at a school location deemed inadequate and replaced by a new school? Just doesn't make sense to me. Tear the damn thing down and build a new structure worthy of being labeled a hotel.

 

I am going to assume you are being sarcastic with this inane post.  I mean you can't really be this oblivious to urban development, can you?  I will give you the benefit of the doubt before I completely call your dumba$$ post out.

Is it feeding time at Troll Zoo?

Is it feeding time at Troll Zoo?

 

No, what is feeding time is thinking every old building is worthy of conversion. If it was such a damn good building why was it not worthy of upgrading for its original purpose - as a school? Or did the architects who originally designed it have their proverbial heads up their a*s?

No, what is feeding time is thinking every old building is worthy of conversion. If it was such a damn good building why was it not worthy of upgrading for its original purpose - as a school? Or did the architects who originally designed it have their proverbial heads up their a*s?

 

Maybe because of funding issues at the state level encouraging new construction over rehab. Familiar with the 2/3rd rule? Besides that, does a school building have to be a school in perpetuity? How about a church or store front? Buildings get re-used all the time.

 

But I should know better than to get hooked at feeding time.

 

kjbrill, I think you come off as trolling because of the way you come out but I think that is a legitimate question, you just have a different logic than most people here, which is good for diversity. Your logic, obviously, is if the building is worth it, why did the school move out in the first place? Am I right?

I guess that question is best directed at the school district, but here are some guesses:

1.) population of the neighborhood dropping caused enrollment to drop and pupil per capita capital and maintence expenditures were too high for it to be feasible to use for the district

2.) because of that and because they couldn't keep up expenditures to maintain because enrollment was so low, the building fell into disrepair and was costing the district too much to stay there. From that, I  am guessing that the full repair costs were too high and building a new school that is more efficient saved money in the long run.

 

That said, have you seen the building before?  I think that rehabbing is the right move, the neighborhood keeps it's charm and fits into the fabric.  Plus,  I think Marriott  knows wjat they are doing, so maybe you should ask them why they would rehab it.

SCPA may not be a hotel, but it will certainly be redeveloped and almost any use will create a product that will have more permanence than Liberty Center.

Is it feeding time at Troll Zoo?

 

No, what is feeding time is thinking every old building is worthy of conversion. If it was such a damn good building why was it not worthy of upgrading for its original purpose - as a school? Or did the architects who originally designed it have their proverbial heads up their a*s?

 

Good god, really? This isn't any random old building. Do you even know what building this is? Are you even capable of pinpointing it on a map without having to look up an address? Buildings are constantly being repurposed all around the world. A school district might not find the need for an old building anymore but that doesn't mean the building needs to be demolished and there's a problem with the building itself. If that was the case almost every building in the core that's older than the 1950s would have at some point needed to be demolished with your one-dimensional logic.

And there are plenty of repurposed old school buildings in Cincinnnati.  *cough* Emery *cough*

If it was such a damn good building why was it not worthy of upgrading for its original purpose - as a school? Or did the architects who originally designed it have their proverbial heads up their a*s?

 

The nerve of people to repurpose buildings. WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?!

Is it feeding time at Troll Zoo?

 

No, what is feeding time is thinking every old building is worthy of conversion. If it was such a damn good building why was it not worthy of upgrading for its original purpose - as a school? Or did the architects who originally designed it have their proverbial heads up their a*s?

 

Yeah, why would we want interesting historic architecture when we just demolish it and replace it with stuff that looks like Mason?

 

Alms & Doepke Building converted from retail to office space?

Emery Building converted from classrooms to apartments?

American Can Factory converted from a factory to apartments?

580 Building being converted from office space to apartments?

 

Demolish all of these unworthy structures!

Is it feeding time at Troll Zoo?

 

No, what is feeding time is thinking every old building is worthy of conversion. If it was such a damn good building why was it not worthy of upgrading for its original purpose - as a school? Or did the architects who originally designed it have their proverbial heads up their a*s?

 

Yeah, why would we want interesting historic architecture when we just demolish it and replace it with stuff that looks like Mason?

 

Alms & Doepke Building converted from retail to office space?

Emery Building converted from classrooms to apartments?

American Can Factory converted from a factory to apartments?

580 Building being converted from office space to apartments?

 

Demolish all of these unworthy structures!

 

We should have also demolished these eyesores when we had the chance!

 

Pratt Street Power Plant

Ghirardelli Square

The Louvre

The Toronto Distillery District

Those who want to rehab every buildiing in siight, no matter what the raason.

 

Quess what, Liberty Center will be one of the most successful retail centers in Cinciinnati, bare none. Why, becaause the people in the northern suburbs have no reason to go downtown, there is just notrhing there. Like it or not, the Metro regiion is surpassing the City in every endeavor.

kjbrill, with all due respect, do you actually believe the crap that you type? Rehabbing historically important buildings is important to keep a region's identity. No reason to go downtown? Except for baseball, football, the best parks in the region, the highest densities of people in the region, several of the most important and successful entertainment centers in the region, the largest job center in the region, literally every single cultural asset in the region, the most historically important buildings and establishments in the region, etc. If you're ACTUALLY unable to see this I really don't think you'e even capable of having a valid opinion. In what way is the metro region surpassing the city "in every endeavor?" By building the same generic shit as every other sprawling place in the country? Please, give me a break. Without downtown there wouldn't even BE the northern suburbs. Let's look at the amount of investment happening in dollars in different parts of the region and guess where the most is being invested? Downtown. And that's a fact that you're not going to be able to even argue with even though you likely will since you don't ever bother to deal in realities.

Yes I do. Just knowing I live in one of the most desirable locations in the Metro is enough to suit me. Part of my having no desire to go downtown is my age. There is absolutely nothing there which entices me to take the time and trouble to go there. My wife and I find everything we desire for a good existence here in Mason. Sorry if you disagree, but that is life.

There seems to be a dichotomy here. Please explain how the fact the City keeps losing population and the Metro gains does not equal a gain for the metro? I just don't understand why the Metro is not gaining the advantage. Perhaps you urbanists should pay attention to where people are actually moving to.

That's fine, but just because you choose not to be adventurous in your old age doesn't also mean that Downtown has nothing. The thousands upon thousands of people who have moved in over the last decade to Downtown and OTR, the millions of visitors each year, and literal billions of dollars in investment happening should tell you that thinking there's nothing happening there for anyone is wrong.

 

Aslo, I REALLY doubt you couldn't have an awesome time downtown just like everyone else your age who has discovered how great it is. Do you not like good food? Do you not like sporting events? Do you not like concerts? Do you not like museums? Do you not like the performing arts? Do you not like any of this? Because these are all things you can get in quantity Downtown.

 

Also, instead of looking at just city boundaries, look at census tracts. Downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods have had the highest percentage gains in the region. The region encompasses a significantly larger land area so saying "it is gaining more people blah blah blah" is failing to actually look at things critically. Building shitty developer houses and strip malls that won't last 50 years isn't a gain for the region, it's garbage. Those things are disposable and will not be around forever like the things that exist in the core. And again, you can have your life in Mason, that's completely fine. But if you actually think Mason would or COULD even exist without Downtown you're highly mistaken.

 

I feel your claim of "nothing enticing" is also one you can't even accurately hold when you so obviously don't have any clue what's happening Downtown. Maybe, just once, try it out. It won't kill you to get out and who knows, maybe you'll realize you were wrong. I've been up to Mason and that's how I formed my opinion. You clearly haven't been Downtown in a while and aren't really even aware anymore of what it's like to experience. Don't let your age be an excuse to stop being adventurous.

Not to take kjbrill's side - but Mason (and the northern suburbs) do offer King's Island, two water parks, the Lindner Family Tennis Center and a multitude of non-chain restaurants and stores (I eat up there regularly). After visiting one of my friend's houses in Mason (a forumer on here, BTW), he showed me the extensive bike path system that Mason has, the amenities (clean swimming facilities, hard courts, expansive playgrounds).

 

Sure, you may not have Music Hall or US Bank Arena or a professional baseball stadium - but that's comparing apples or oranges. It's not a valid comparison. Mason is a decent community that while suburban, offers a high quality of life. You just pay for it with high property taxes and HOA fees.

Let's stop discussing Mason vs. Downtown Cincinnati. This really isn't the place for it, and no one's mind is going to change because of it. Let's talk about Liberty Center here.

 

SAF and kjbrill, stop inciting this kind of behavior in your posts with knocks against Cincinnati/urban areas. Everyone else, don't respond to these types of posts. From now on I will delete any posts that I see as continuing this stupid argument.

Despite the detractors, Liberty Center will be hugely successful. Just because there are so many people out here in the northern suburbs who will go there. It will draw from Lebanon and just about every other suburb out here.

 

I have already stated I will likely be an infrequent guest, but strictly due to the travel problem my wife and I have. We need locations where we can literally pull the wheelchair van up to the front door. We are fortunate to have many locations in the Mason area where this is possible. My wife shops at Meijer off Tylersville in Butler Co. They park literally at the front door. From what I have seen from the artist's concepts of Liberty Center, it will be more dense, not sure if compatible with our needs.

 

But that doesn't detract from the literally thouands of people poised here to be customers.

 

Just like we are in the vast minority, many other vested posters appear to be the same. Liberty Center will be a success from day one when they open the doors. And it will have zero to do with downtown Cincinnati. The whole focus will be on the northern suburbs, and where people desire to live and shop.

 

Now just where here did I knock Cincinnati? Cincinnati go your way, but permit us who have selected a different path to go ours.

Now just where here did I knock Cincinnati? Cincinnati go your way, but permit us who have selected a different path to go ours.

 

Has anyone suggested you should be denied your path? The only difference is that if downtown Cincinnati continues to erode, metro area tax burdens rise. If suburban sprawl ceases while urban core and metro populations rise, metro area tax burdens fall.

And that's the last word on this topic. Final warning. One more post that responds to this tangent is getting the whole topic locked for a while.

 

Cut It Out

 

Despite the fun, Full House inspired gif, I am serious and will lock the thread.

So -- back on topic.  Has construction started here?  Does anyone know what the timeline is for the project?  I would assume since it is greenfield construction it should happen at a fairly brisk pace?

^ Yes it has, I drove by it yesterday. They are doing a bit of excavating.

This topic is locked until further notice.

Dick's Sporting Goods named as third anchor of center:

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/liberty-center-adds-sporting-goods-store-as-third-/nfsLS/