June 9, 200817 yr you know what? it's still just like that...except now all the locals are replaced by the touristas. :laugh: oh wait. that guy up on the balcony on the right? his modern relative is dressed exactly the same today, except now instead of the balcony he is in the unmarked basement faux-speakeasy slinging $18 artisan drinks to the hipsteristas. :roll:
June 9, 200817 yr I'm sure life in these neighborhoods was hellish with the smell of animals and human waste and the non-stop commotion, no air conditioning, and coal smoke during the winter. And before skyscrapers and the variety of building styles that exist now in New York, I'm sure it had a simultaneously monotonous and disorienting character
June 9, 200817 yr Well, it is like comparing OTR from the past to today. While density is all nice and stuff, I can't imagine fitting 44,000 in there today in the housing stock that exists -- it would be considered overcrowding. Build more density by building up, perhaps. But at ~7,500, it is a figure that is too low. What can OTR support? Has anyone done an analysis?
June 9, 200817 yr ^ not to mention once you got inside your building....one family per room, no hot water, shared hallway washroom, etc. :-o if anyone has more interest in this pic/topic when you visit ny i recommend the lower east side tenement museum tour: http://www.tenement.org/
June 9, 200817 yr Amazing. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 9, 200817 yr Those folks' lives wouldn't be very pleasant compared with what we're used to now, but that was what they were familiar with, and some of them probably thought they had it pretty good compared with what they might have left in an old country. With the population density and local merchants living in or above their shops, I'll bet a very large percentage of the people in the photo knew or at least recognized each other on the street. There probably was a sense of community there. Beautiful photo.
June 9, 200817 yr New York's tenements were unusual in that they were frequently built to six floors, even higher. The typical Cincinnati tenement was four floors, with some built to five. Obviously an area packed solid with six floor buildings will have significantly higher population density than one with four floors. In Cincinnati there was the situation unlike in Manhattan, at least until the 1870's, that one could climb up the hills and instantly leave the commotion for farms and peace & quiet. For some time someone could take a ferry out of Manhattan and similarly leave the commotion behind but that was definitely not the case after the massive growth of the outer boroughs in the late 1800's. The hellish character of London, New York, and the other early industrial cities fueled Naturalism, elements of Romanticism, and still shapes how pop culture portrays the countryside today. Agrarian life and nature were idealized during the industrial period in a similar way to how we now idealize these cities when they were at their peak population densities.
June 9, 200817 yr there's nothing wrong with living in a 120 year old tenement! you mean people actually have more than 300 sq. feet (even now I'm probably exaggerating) of living space? (I guess rent stabilization doesn't make it seem so awful--otherwise I'd be out on the street) http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 9, 200817 yr NYC and other cities are still much less chaotic than they once were. We're all expected to get from point A to point B in a short amount of time. People hanging out on the street, taking up all that space would not fly in this day and age. Cities are so much more organized and efficient. Inner cities and suburbs are really not much different in their attempts to eliminate chaos, it's just that inner cities have a higher tolerance for it.
June 10, 200817 yr EVD, you must live in one tiny railroad! Very tiny. But for newcomers, my landlord is charging nearly $2,000/mo for these very tiny spaces! He gets away with it because he markets to transients (read students—mainly NYU) who need space (for a relatively short term) close to campus. People in this situation aren’t likely to question such steep rents (more than likely raised to levels beyond those permitted by the rent laws), especially if Mommy and Daddy are paying for it. After all, Junior was lucky to get into the prestigious New York University (possibly the most overrated college in the nation), so any amount to pay for room & board is well worth the price. Another advantage for the landlord to rent to students is that their mere presence will certainly be an annoyance to long term older residents (read me), hopefully propelling a hasty retreat! (Although lately I’ve noticed a slightly older, foreign batch of tenants who are thankfully quieter than the student crowd) http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 10, 200817 yr wow! That is exactly why I decided to buy. I couldn't deal with the ridiculous rent in NYC. 2,000 for how much sq. ft?
June 10, 200817 yr wow! That is exactly why I decided to buy. I couldn't deal with the ridiculous rent in NYC. 2,000 for how much sq. ft? like I said--about 300 (if that). All the units are the same size--but since the current landlord took over (many years ago), he has been reconfiguring them to create extra rooms; so now instead of studios--voila!--they're two bedrooms! It's so completely laughable that most prospective tenants take about 3 seconds to look at them and walk away in disbelief. (there is one decent sized apartment in the back on the ground floor which was my original landlord's family apartment--three bedrooms--which I believe rents for $4,500; but it's still a tenement. Don't expect Viking appliances!...ha ha) http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 10, 200817 yr wow! That is exactly why I decided to buy. I couldn't deal with the ridiculous rent in NYC. 2,000 for how much sq. ft? like I said--about 300 (if that). All the units are the same size--but since the current landlord took over (many years ago), he has been reconfiguring them to create extra rooms; so now instead of studios--voila!--they're two bedrooms! It's so completely laughable that most prospective tenants take about 3 seconds to look at them and walk away in disbelief. (there is one decent sized apartment in the back on the ground floor which was my original landlord's family apartment--three bedrooms--which I believe rents for $4,500; but it's still a tenement. Don't expect Viking appliances!...ha ha) 300 Square feet? :-o :-o How do you even move about?
June 10, 200817 yr Go to IKEA and check out their "models" -- that are around 300 SF. It's definately do-able... but yeah, moving about? That's another thing.
June 10, 200817 yr wow! That is exactly why I decided to buy. I couldn't deal with the ridiculous rent in NYC. 2,000 for how much sq. ft? like I said--about 300 (if that). All the units are the same size--but since the current landlord took over (many years ago), he has been reconfiguring them to create extra rooms; so now instead of studios--voila!--they're two bedrooms! It's so completely laughable that most prospective tenants take about 3 seconds to look at them and walk away in disbelief. (there is one decent sized apartment in the back on the ground floor which was my original landlord's family apartment--three bedrooms--which I believe rents for $4,500; but it's still a tenement. Don't expect Viking appliances!...ha ha) 300 Square feet? :-o :-o How do you even move about? believe it or not, I've actually been in apts that are smaller. This is New York, after all. Now I'm going to have to take exact measurements of the place--it may even be 302 square feet. I can add another waste basket for my not-so-important papers (like those articles people save and say they're eventually going to read and never do. I have a lot of those!) http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 10, 200817 yr I can't image living in 300 Sq. Feet. I'm a neat freak and a germaphobe. I don't collect stuff other than clothes and furniture. I couldn't manage in a space that small. You must be super organized and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose.
June 10, 200817 yr I can't image living in 300 Sq. Feet. I'm a neat freak and a germaphobe. I don't collect stuff other than clothes and furniture. I couldn't manage in a space that small. You must be super organized and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose. "...and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose."--the kitchen sink is a spittoon..oops, I mean a cuspidor--this is Manhattan, after all. http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 10, 200817 yr I can't image living in 300 Sq. Feet. I'm a neat freak and a germaphobe. I don't collect stuff other than clothes and furniture. I couldn't manage in a space that small. You must be super organized and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose. "...and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose."--the kitchen sink is a spittoon..oops, I mean a cuspidor--this is Manhattan, after all. Lawd! How long have you lived there? I've only been to a few places in the EV and they were all incredibly small. Maybe my idea of the appropriate size of a home is screwed up, having grew up in huge house and living in a pretty big apartment. It just seems so confining. Then again, this is Manhattan. :wink:
June 11, 200817 yr I can't image living in 300 Sq. Feet. I'm a neat freak and a germaphobe. I don't collect stuff other than clothes and furniture. I couldn't manage in a space that small. You must be super organized and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose. "...and every item in your house, probably has a dual purpose."--the kitchen sink is a spittoon..oops, I mean a cuspidor--this is Manhattan, after all. Lawd! How long have you lived there? I've only been to a few places in the EV and they were all incredibly small. Maybe my idea of the appropriate size of a home is screwed up, having grew up in huge house and living in a pretty big apartment. It just seems so confining. Then again, this is Manhattan. :wink: 25 years. I'm old. I guess space requirements are relative, especially when they're dependent upon one's level of affordability; and some people aren't as high maintenance than others. Recently a local photographer spent time documenting a Chinese family on the Lower East Side--proving that the hard-core immigrant experience (from a hundred years ago) still exists here. I guess comparatively speaking I'm living in relative luxury: http://exhibitions.nypl.org/eminent/holton http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 11, 200817 yr 25 years??! Then we're probably in the same age range. I just couldn't. Bless you for being able to do it, but lawd knows I couldn't.
June 11, 200817 yr 25 years??! Then we're probably in the same age range. I just couldn't. Bless you for being able to do it, but lawd knows I couldn't. I know where you’re coming from and understand completely (I'm from Ohio after all...), but there are lots of people in New York like myself, and common sense has nothing to do with New York real estate. If you have an exceptionally good deal on rent as a result of rent control/stabilization (technically two different things)-- even if you’re in a ridiculously small apartment--you’re reluctant to leave, even if your economic situation should vastly improve. The landlord and real estate lobby have been trying to get rid of the rent laws for years (it’s controlled by the New York State Legislature—they keep chipping away at it—too much to go into here), claiming it chiefly benefits affluent Manhattanites. The critics of this system always point out celebrity tenants paying outlandishly low rents—model Lauren Hutton was one; I think Bruce Willis hung on to his old, small apt. long after he became rich and famous; as well as Mia Farrow (who lived in huge, classic apartment on Central Park West paying under $1,000/mo!!!—I think it was where Woody Allen’s “Hannah and Her Sisters” was filmed)—she was eventually forced out. The book (& movie) Slaves of New York by Tama Janowitz addressed aspects of this issue. Okay, enough of this topic. It’s boring! http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 11, 200817 yr Trust me I know about those rent guidelines. My assistant lives in a 1500sq apartment on 71 Street and b'way and paying around 1100. I found out in my 11 month, of a two year lease, that the building I was in was rent subsidized, but when I moved in, I was paying (brooklyn hts.) market value. We had a nice negotiation....and then I screwed him niiiiiiiiiiiice and slow. Came to find out everyone in the building was paying MORE than what they were suppose to be. The sad part about it is...I loved the fireplace and made improvements to the apartment with no thanks from that jackass!
June 12, 200817 yr 300 sqft is freaking luxury. we have two in 500 sqft. and i am dubious, that's pushing it. edit: i almost forgot, our next door neighbor is from medina and lives in a 300 sqft or less studio. he's lived there since the 70's and obviously has rent control.
June 12, 200817 yr 300 sqft is freaking luxury. we have two in 500 sqft. and i am dubious, that's pushing it. WHAT??? THAT IS INSANE! You folks are paying the price for "location". DAMN!
June 13, 200817 yr 300 sqft is freaking luxury. we have two in 500 sqft. and i am dubious, that's pushing it. WHAT??? THAT IS INSANE! You folks are paying the price for "location". DAMN! I promised I wound’nt address this topic again but here goes: Admittedly I benefit from the rent laws, and I’m grateful for it, but sometimes (in my mind, anyway) I play devil’s advocate and try to see it from the landlord’s point of view (as an aside: the latest twist is for Wall St. investors--of all people--to buy up tenements and try to force out long term tenants, claiming it's not their primary residence--a real scandal): I mentioned earlier that I had actually been in apartments smaller than 300 square feet. I have an acquaintance—a woman now in her early 60’s—who’s been living in the West Village since the 60’s. She lives in a studio that I estimate to be maybe 250 square feet, at most. The building is an old hotel (directly across the street from multi-million dollar Federal style townhouses)—sort of a flophouse—that once housed merchant sailors. Here’s the best part: Her rent? $125/mo!!! I once knew an actor in the East Village near me who lived there since the 60’s paying $150 for a good-sized one bedroom. A long time ago—maybe 15 years—I met someone paying (I cannot make this up) $30/month(!) living in a coldwater apartment on 2nd Ave & 33rd St. And many years ago an elderly man in my building who passed on—and who lived in his apartment since the 40’s, was paying $45/month. See, it’s all relative, right?! http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 13, 200817 yr EVD I've heard those stories as well. Most landlords are out to make a buck. If not they wouldn't be landlords. My thought is the size. I know, I know, I should be stoned as a single man living in a 3,000+ square foot apartment & a 3,500+ square foot brownstone. I just can't wrap my head around living in such a small space.
June 13, 200817 yr EVD I've heard those stories as well. Most landlords are out to make a buck. If not they wouldn't be landlords. My thought is the size. I know, I know, I should be stoned as a single man living in a 3,000+ square foot apartment & a 3,500+ square foot brownstone. I just can't wrap my head around living in such a small space. I'm going out right now to start gathering stones. Nah, not really! If you can afford that much space, that's great! http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
June 13, 200817 yr It always amazes me how people were so drawn to the camera back then due to it being a new invention. Everyone in that photo is looking right at it as if it was a family wedding photo.
June 13, 200817 yr EVD I've heard those stories as well. Most landlords are out to make a buck. If not they wouldn't be landlords. My thought is the size. I know, I know, I should be stoned as a single man living in a 3,000+ square foot apartment & a 3,500+ square foot brownstone. I just can't wrap my head around living in such a small space. I'm going out right now to start gathering stones. Nah, not really! If you can afford that much space, that's great! EVD...I'm a dumpster diving, flea market searching, antique road show, garage sale going to so-and-so...you need space to bring home crap. lol
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