I've always wanted to know that. Does any suburban or urban areas have a district that can be called a CBD in other metro's?

You can't call it a central business district if it's in the 'burbs, right?  Most, not all, CBD are considered the downtown Business core.

 

In the suburbs I think they're called business parks or campuses.

 

 

Not necessarily, doesn't Lakewood have a "downtown"?

Not necessarily, doesn't Lakewood have a "downtown"?

 

Yes but there is a big difference in just being "downtown" and your regions "central business district".

^Sure does.

 

regions "central business district"

 

That's a horse of a different color.

You can have region's central business district, a city's central business district and even a neighborhood's central business district. So there...

 

And as long as we're defining our parameters, what are we counting as a skyscraper? In a small town like Elyria or Warren, a 10-story building could be considered a skyscraper by some. But in the big three C's, we may not consider a building as a skyscraper until it has more than 20 or 30 stories.

 

Of course, if we can answer that question, we might finally put to an end the debate at the Jacobs Public Square development thread!

University Circle in Cleveland is a large business/employment/cultural district, and with 30,000+ jobs with 10,000 more on the way, would compete with the CBDs of many small cities.

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Have you been to Cincinnati? I think Cincinnati has one of the finest CBD's the U.S. has to offer. You can literally walk across the street (or skywalk) from one fortune 500 company to another, not to mention the fortune 1000 companies and all the smaller major companies scattered throughout. The density is very impressive along with the selection of companies.

I have to agree - Cleveland may have the "height" crown, but Cincy has the "clustering" of towers - they may not be as tall but they're impressive.

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Have you been to Cincinnati? I think Cincinnati has one of the finest CBD's the U.S. has to offer. You can literally walk across the street (or skywalk) from one fortune 500 company to another, not to mention the fortune 1000 companies and all the smaller major companies scattered throughout. The density is very impressive along with the selection of companies.

 

reread what 3231 says. 

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Capitol Square in Columbus has four buildings over 500 feet tall.

I have to agree - Cleveland may have the "height" crown, but Cincy has the "clustering" of towers - they may not be as tall but they're impressive.

 

I think East Ninth streets wall is impressive as well as Superior.

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Have you been to Cincinnati? I think Cincinnati has one of the finest CBD's the U.S. has to offer. You can literally walk across the street (or skywalk) from one fortune 500 company to another, not to mention the fortune 1000 companies and all the smaller major companies scattered throughout. The density is very impressive along with the selection of companies.

 

reread what 3231 says. 

 

Just because Cleveland has a taller average height doesn't mean its the only true "skyscraper" district. Cincinnati has the height, density & the companies to make a true High-rise CBD.

That's like saying Cincinnati has the only true "Central Business District" because they have more corporate & building density.

A) There is a difference between "skyline" and "height" (i.e. Dayton's skyline is awesome for it's population). I can post definitions from M&W if anyone would like?

 

B) Why in the f$*K does there always need to be comparisons on this board between Cincinnati and Cleveland?! Jeez people grow up.

 

 

 

If there is a constant comparison, is one really "greater" than the other? Seriously folks think about it. Are Clevelanders going to argue with NYC about how the city's better than theirs? No, they're not and NY'ers probably wouldn't even reply to such a statement ... they'd probably let it go due to delusional theories. Which is the opposite of what people do on this board and probably to what people on the street would say. No average person from Cincy or Cleveland is going to bow dow to the other city and it's superiorness. It's density and height, that's it. Bob Smith will prefer narrow streets, joe-blow prefers wide streets. Johnny likes density, Jane likes height.

I guess it would help if someone provided the definition of a 'skyscraper', no? Otherwise, all of this is just opinion and meaningless.

 

My Ohio 'skyscraper' districts in order (the thread's title says nothing about central business districts, though they're usually one and the same):

 

1) Cleveland

2) Cincy

3) Cow-town

 

there's a big drop to the next level obviously, and you could interchange them easily

 

4) Toledo

5) Akron

6) Y-town

7) Dayton (have to admit I'm not very familiar with their skyline)

 

*maybe Canton, probably not.

 

 

I have to add that I love Cincy's skyline, it's density combined with the bridges, when viewed from NKY, is just awesome.

 

My Ohio 'skyscraper' districts in order (the thread's title says nothing about central business districts, though they're usually one and the same):

 

 

the CBD is in the initial post, not the title.  I pretty much said the same thing.

I've got an easy one for you ...

 

If we're going to state who's got the best skyline, why don't we just go back to the "where are you from thread?" ... look to see what city is represented the most and then base the answer on the most represented city! Bam, easy as that and we'll have us a winner.

I've got an easy one for you ...

 

If we're going to state who's got the best skyline, why don't we just go back to the "where are you from thread?" ... look to see what city is represented the most and then base the answer on the most represented city! Bam, easy as that and we'll have us a winner.

 

Check urbanbar, IIRC, we already have that thread

I've got an easy one for you ...

 

If we're going to state who's got the best skyline, why don't we just go back to the "where are you from thread?" ... look to see what city is represented the most and then base the answer on the most represented city! Bam, easy as that and we'll have us a winner.

 

Check urbanbar, IIRC, we already have that thread

 

lol, I know -I said why don't we go back to it to pick the best city. ;)

If there is a constant comparison, is one really "greater" than the other? Seriously folks think about it.

 

I was never saying one was "greater" than the other. I am not from Cincinnati, Columbus or Cleveland, but to say one was the only "true" this or "true" that is misleading & bias. Both have more positives in certain aspects, that's what makes them all so great. Too bad people from the 3C's are so bias toward their own & negative toward the others. Ohio has something only a couple other states can claim and Being that they all start with "C" and are on the same interstate (I-71) separated roughly the same distance apart is an anomaly unique to Ohio.

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Have you been to Cincinnati? I think Cincinnati has one of the finest CBD's the U.S. has to offer. You can literally walk across the street (or skywalk) from one fortune 500 company to another, not to mention the fortune 1000 companies and all the smaller major companies scattered throughout. The density is very impressive along with the selection of companies.

 

I don't see how this addresses the skyscraper district question. 

 

I love Cincy's skyline and its settling and topography, but the buildings aren't that tall. They don't need to be to have a great effect.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,16051.0.html

 

I think if we take the 100 ft. limit into account in the OP's original question, that can give us a clue to the number of high-rise areas, districts, or whatever you'd like to call them, in Ohio.

 

Does any suburban or urban areas have a district that can be called a CBD in other metro's?

 

If the criteria is a 100 ft. building, then most definitely. Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati have multiple areas with buildings over 100 ft in addition to their respective CBDs (off the top of my head):

 

Cleveland: University Circle, Lakewood, Independence

Columbus: OSU Campus, Dublin

Cincinnati: Covington, UC Campus, Edge Cliff

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Have you been to Cincinnati? I think Cincinnati has one of the finest CBD's the U.S. has to offer. You can literally walk across the street (or skywalk) from one fortune 500 company to another, not to mention the fortune 1000 companies and all the smaller major companies scattered throughout. The density is very impressive along with the selection of companies.

 

I don't see how this addresses the skyscraper district question.

 

I love Cincy's skyline and its settling and topography, but the buildings aren't that tall. They don't need to be to have a great effect.

 

 

Hell, how many 1,000-footers does Cleveland have? Really, people. C'mon. Some of you guys are making it sound like there's a plethora of 1,000-footers in the Cleve. lol ... Again there's a building's height and then there's a skyline, two totally different ideas.

You make it sound like you're a model and we all know how absurd THAT claim is. :-D

I read "skyscraper" district as a unique area within a cbd. Not an entire city skyline.

You make it sound like you're a model and we all know how absurd THAT claim is. :-D

 

lol ... like I said, you caught me on a bad hairday. Otherwise, there'd be no mistake on what my profession is or should be. ;)

 

 

 

I read "skyscraper" district as a unique area within a cbd. Not an entire city skyline.

 

It's all silliness. I'm done with it. We can slice and dice this thing until it's all microscopic, and fits into our little pocket, but I don't have the time or nerves for it. Plus I'm too old for this crazy talk too.

No offense, unusualfire, but it's a little difficult to answer this question without a definition of "skyscraper".  We could be talking about the early sense of "over 100 feet", a more modern and strict definition of "over 500 feet", or anything in between.  If we use the narrowest definition, there are only 12 buildings in Ohio greater than 500 feet: four in Cleveland, two in Cincinnati (counting Queen City Square), and six (!) in Columbus- all in their respective downtowns.

 

I'm not even sure what we mean by "district".  Would any collection of 2 or more "skyscrapers" make a district?

 

Tangentially, why are there so few +400' towers in Cincinnati? Is it related to soil conditions (similar to Cleveland's glacial till)?

 

EDIT: Out, out damn typos!

My sense is for the question at hand, I like the 100 ft. marker. I think the key is to see where else besides the CBD has been the kind of densification that gets people to invest in vertical space.

Tangentially, why are there so few +400' towers in Cincinnati? Is it related to soil conditions

 

After reviewing this question with my fellow CEO's (of the Kroger, P&G, Chiquita, and 5/3 alliance - KPGC5/3A) we came to the conclusion that yes, we chose this reason because of the soil "conditions". And we don't want to compete with Manhattan and all ... well, you guys know how that is ...

 

    Soil conditions in Ohio are generally not bad for skyscrapers. New York City has very good soil conditions, however: solid rock.

 

    How about some photos of the less well known skyscraper areas in Ohio? No need for definitions. Just the photos, please.

Tangentially, why are there so few +400' towers in Cincinnati? Is it related to soil conditions

 

After reviewing this question with my fellow CEO's (of the Kroger, P&G, Chiquita, and 5/3 alliance - KPGC5/3A) we came to the conclusion that yes, we chose this reason because of the soil "conditions". And we don't want to compete with Manhattan and all ... well, you guys know how that is ...

 

Um, I was actually being sincere. 

 

The main reason that Cleveland has a skyline consisting of three towers taller than 650' and then a bunch of sub-400' buildings is that the deep glacial till makes it unfeasible to build taller than 20 or so floors unless you sink cassions about 300 feet deep to the bedrock.  This also accounts for the three towers, since if you're going to make that foundation investment, you might as well build as tall as you can.  I didn't know if Cincinnati had issues regarding the Ohio River valley, since the size of the metropolitan area would seem support more projects like Queen City Center.

 

EDIT: Or, was there a "gentleman's agreement" similar to Philadelphia's regarding the William Penn statue on City Hall?

Tangentially, why are there so few +400' towers in Cincinnati? Is it related to soil conditions

 

After reviewing this question with my fellow CEO's (of the Kroger, P&G, Chiquita, and 5/3 alliance - KPGC5/3A) we came to the conclusion that yes, we chose this reason because of the soil "conditions". And we don't want to compete with Manhattan and all ... well, you guys know how that is ...

 

That's funny, Chicago has terrible soil conditions. Don't see those conditions being a problem for skyscrapers. I don't know about downtown, but generally in Cincinnati the bedrock is shallow.

I would say that Public Square in Cleveland is the only true "skyscraper" district in the state.

 

Have you been to Cincinnati? I think Cincinnati has one of the finest CBD's the U.S. has to offer. You can literally walk across the street (or skywalk) from one fortune 500 company to another, not to mention the fortune 1000 companies and all the smaller major companies scattered throughout. The density is very impressive along with the selection of companies.

 

I don't see how this addresses the skyscraper district question. 

 

I love Cincy's skyline and its settling and topography, but the buildings aren't that tall. They don't need to be to have a great effect.

 

 

Just because they aren't as tall as Cleveland's doesn't discount anything. Apparently Columbus has the best skyscraper district according to your method, if Columbus has six towers over 500' compared to Cleveland's four. Do you think Cleveland has the only "skyscraper" district because it has the tallest building? Cleveland has the tallest building, that's all, it doesn't define Cleveland as the only true "skyscraper" district. I think you are just being bias because your from Cleveland or the greater Cleveland area. You should come to Cincinnati and walk around the CBD to see for yourself how impressive the CBD actually is. The high-rise density combined with all the corporate offices around Fountain Square makes for a truly impressive "skyscraper " district.

 

BTW, When I am speaking with property management firms we don't ever use the word "skyscraper", we prefer the term high-rise. High-rise buildings are generally broke down into low-rise, mid-rise & high-rise. I can't recall any professional literature which refers to the word "skyscraper", the term high-rise is almost always used. I would probably lose my bearing if someone from a property management firm stated, "We manage six skyscrapers in New York & Columbus." lol...

Tangentially, why are there so few +400' towers in Cincinnati? Is it related to soil conditions

 

After reviewing this question with my fellow CEO's (of the Kroger, P&G, Chiquita, and 5/3 alliance - KPGC5/3A) we came to the conclusion that yes, we chose this reason because of the soil "conditions". And we don't want to compete with Manhattan and all ... well, you guys know how that is ...

 

Um, I was actually being sincere. 

 

The main reason that Cleveland has a skyline consisting of three towers taller than 650' and then a bunch of sub-400' buildings is that the deep glacial till makes it unfeasible to build taller than 20 or so floors unless you sink cassions about 300 feet deep to the bedrock.  This also accounts for the three towers, since if you're going to make that foundation investment, you might as well build as tall as you can.  I didn't know if Cincinnati had issues regarding the Ohio River valley, since the size of the metropolitan area would seem support more projects like Queen City Center.

 

EDIT: Or, was there a "gentleman's agreement" similar to Philadelphia's regarding the William Penn statue on City Hall?

 

All of Cincinnati (even the basin) is in the process of falling into the river. I've had geologists discuss the fact that there is perceptible slide. The Chiquita bldg. will likely have a shorter life time because of an inadequate investment in getting it attached to bedrock. The P&G towers are the opposite. They spent nearly a year pouring concrete underground to keep everything in place.

I am surprised that people are taking such offense to my comments. UO is becoming a little tiresome with all this bickering and comparing. I based my comments on the fact that no other city square in the state has a 40+ story tower and two 50+ story towers. I defined that area as a "district" and not the overall downtown. In my Ohio-mind, I consider 40+ story buildings to be "skyscrapers". Others probably differ in opinion. (The title of the thread refered to high rises and skyscrapers) I am sorry if you thought that I was saying that all of downtown Cincy is somehow inferior. I didn't mean to say that nor did I actually say that. I was just making a passing comment and I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

 

 

I am surprised that people are taking such offense to my comments. UO is becoming a little tiresome with all this bickering and comparing. I based my comments on the fact that no other city square in the state has a 40+ story tower and two 50+ story towers. I defined that area as a "district" and not the overall downtown. In my Ohio-mind, I consider 40+ story buildings to be "skyscrapers". Others probably differ in opinion. (The title of the thread refered to high rises and skyscrapers) I am sorry if you thought that I was saying that all of downtown Cincy is somehow inferior. I didn't mean to say that nor did I actually say that. I was just making a passing comment and I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

 

 

 

There is nothing you could ever do or say to hurt my feelings or offend me, lol... In my book you are an internet opinion like everyone else here, but there sure is a lot of bias on this UO website, especially from the Cleveland area. I find that disappointing considering I really like Cleveland. Every thread on this website is an argument of some kind or another, so no need for this thread to be different. I have generally used the generic term "skyscraper" to describe buildings over 400' regardless of floor count. I have found that 400' to be a popular mark to define skyscrapers. Height isn't based on floor count alone.

I don't know what a skyscraper is technically but a high-rise I believe is 12 stories or higher. It's still a vague subjective term. If you meet up with board members or come to a forum meet you'll find that they're not really as bad in person with their cerebral narcissism!

All of Cincinnati (even the basin) is in the process of falling into the river. I've had geologists discuss the fact that there is perceptible slide. The Chiquita bldg. will likely have a shorter life time because of an inadequate investment in getting it attached to bedrock. The P&G towers are the opposite. They spent nearly a year pouring concrete underground to keep everything in place.

 

I have talked to employees at the Chiquita center about that issue, but they insist everything is in order so I chalked that theory up to an urban myth. Their chief engineer is a ____... The plaza was replaced a few years ago, water leakage was addressed. On that note, I have been to the top of Chiquita and it seems to react more to high wind than similar height buildings in the surrounding area. I don't know if that is a design or structural issue. I think it has something to do with the floor height. And about that underground concrete pouring at P&G, there is more to that than you think.

I am surprised that people are taking such offense to my comments. UO is becoming a little tiresome with all this bickering and comparing. I based my comments on the fact that no other city square in the state has a 40+ story tower and two 50+ story towers. I defined that area as a "district" and not the overall downtown. In my Ohio-mind, I consider 40+ story buildings to be "skyscrapers". Others probably differ in opinion. (The title of the thread refered to high rises and skyscrapers) I am sorry if you thought that I was saying that all of downtown Cincy is somehow inferior. I didn't mean to say that nor did I actually say that. I was just making a passing comment and I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

 

 

 

There is nothing you could ever do or say to hurt my feelings or offend me, lol... In my book you are an internet opinion like everyone else here, but there sure is a lot of bias on this UO website, especially from the Cleveland area. I find that disappointing considering I really like Cleveland. Every thread on this website is an argument of some kind or another, so no need for this thread to be different. I have generally used the generic term "skyscraper" to describe buildings over 400' regardless of floor count. I have found that 400' to be a popular mark to define skyscrapers. Height isn't based on floor count alone.

 

Each city has its overzealous posters. No need to throw any mud. It doesn't get us anywhere.  Back on topic.

Edit: According to Hayward (and he has an ARCH degree) a skyscraper is any building twice as high as its width but generally is considered to be over 500'.

According to me, if any of you ever met up for a forum meet and spent this much time and effort in what is essentially a d!ck-size competition, I'd beat the living hell out of ya! And I wrote a book about architecture! :roll:

Boy, this is a silly thread..... Why do we always sink into city-by-city comparisons when that wasn't the point of this thread?

 

Set out to agree on what a skyscraper is (may differ on the size of community as I said earlier), define a distinct district, then count the districts in the state.

 

Pretty simple.

 

If you can't do that, then this thread ought to be whacked.

Edit: According to Hayward (and he has an ARCH degree) a skyscraper is any building twice as high as its width but generally is considered to be over 500'.

 

As modern technology allows for more height, the skyscraper height definition continues to increase also. As it stands, with all the supertalls being built around the world, america will soon be without any skyscrapers by definition...

Yeah, just as first ring suburbs in the 1920s would be considered urban, today. Definitions change but that's apparently the current definition. I think most on here would agree that height isn't the only thing that makes a great skyline. I think CLE, COL and CIN all have great skylines, for different reasons.

• sky·scrap·er: 1883 : very tall, multistoried building.

 

• High Rise: multistory building tall enough to require the use of a system of mechanical vertical transportation such as elevators.

 

 

 

I guess it would help if someone provided the definition of a 'skyscraper', no? Otherwise, all of this is just opinion and meaningless.

 

My Ohio 'skyscraper' districts in order (the thread's title says nothing about central business districts, though they're usually one and the same):

 

1) Cleveland

2) Cincy

3) Cow-town

 

there's a big drop to the next level obviously, and you could interchange them easily

 

4) Toledo

5) Akron

6) Y-town

7) Dayton (have to admit I'm not very familiar with their skyline)

 

*maybe Canton, probably not.

 

 

I have to add that I love Cincy's skyline, it's density combined with the bridges, when viewed from NKY, is just awesome.

 

Christ.

I am surprised that people are taking such offense to my comments. UO is becoming a little tiresome with all this bickering and comparing. I based my comments on the fact that no other city square in the state has a 40+ story tower and two 50+ story towers. I defined that area as a "district" and not the overall downtown. In my Ohio-mind, I consider 40+ story buildings to be "skyscrapers". Others probably differ in opinion. (The title of the thread refered to high rises and skyscrapers) I am sorry if you thought that I was saying that all of downtown Cincy is somehow inferior. I didn't mean to say that nor did I actually say that. I was just making a passing comment and I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

I knew what you were saying (I knew you meant no harm) but it was still inaccurate.  Capitol Square in Columbus has four 500+ footers surrounding it.